GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: monkeyhanger on 04 November 2014, 21:58
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Just checked out the GFVs for the R and they've dropped £3k since I placed my order on Sept 24th, the GTI and GTD have taken a beating too:-
5 door manual for all 3 cars on a 36 month/30k miles basis:-
R: £30555 > £15576.30 = 50.1% RRP retained (was 60%)
GTI: £27235 > £13109.40 = 48.1% RRP retained (was 51%)
GTD: £26670 > £13746.85 = 51.5% RRP retained (was 56%)
My R is now going to be costing me £83 a month more than I thought it was going to.
I might consider getting the S3 instead if my dealer confirms these as true (I thought the R figs might be a typo until I saw the GTI and GTD dropped correspondingly too).
If I can get the finance figs he quoted (with that GFV of £18600 guaranteed) it could still be worth getting it on finance and leaving my money in the bank, then potentially walking away at the end of the term rather than buying the car outright and it being worth £3k less than I thought it was going to be.
£3782 in interest on £22k financed after my GTD equity (about £5k) and discount on the £18600 GFV terms and make £1400 interest (£2382 net interest cost) vs being £3k down on GFV drop.
Seriously considering getting an S3 instead if their GFVs haven't dropped as the £3k extra cost will more than pay for the extras i'd want to get the S3 up to R spec for the practical stuff, with the added bonus of the nicer seats and slightly nicer interior.
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Is this on new deals matt? What about existing finance people?
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Is this on new deals matt? What about existing finance people?
If you already have the car, then your deal will remain the same as that's what you signed up for.
@ Monkeyhanger, if you've agreed a deal and had your proposal accepted, can they change the terms before delivery? It's not really cricket is it?
You say you have the money in the bank, so why not just buy the car? That way you don't have to make a decision about what do do with the car in three years time.
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I know when I agreed the deal and placed my order for my GTI just over 12 months ago it was based on a certain monthly figure. If they'd have tried to change that when I collected I would have walked away. I would have thought if you've agreed the deal, then that's that.
All of those GFV's seem low to me though... I'm sure mine is around the £15.5k mark even after 4 yrs... Saying that, list price on mine was £30,540 so at 51% that would make sense.
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Chris/mcmaddy: If you already have the car, then your deal will remain the same as that's what you signed up for, they can’t touch your GFV. If the GFV drops (well it has dropped by a grand on the GTD just now) and your car is worth less to the dealer than the GFV, you walk away at the end of your term with no equity.
Dubber 36: I don’t already have the car, but I have an order form. I’m not sure if the GFV in place when the order was struck is solid or whether the finance numbers are drawn up when I pick the car up and I decide to take their finance (I suspect the latter). If I were to still buy it outright the GFV is out of the window and the car will probably be worth as p/x £16700 (£1k over current £15700 GFV, if it doesn’t fall any further) instead of the expected £19600 (£1k over the £18600 on my proposal).
I have checked all the dealership emails and order forms and there is nothing in there stating the higher GFV that was in place on the finance examples.
Looking at Audi finance, they have a limited number of models with finance examples, and the one they have (the lowly 1.2TSI A3) has a GFV of 52%, The S3 has to be higher than that and it was 56% last time I looked, with no dirt cheap lease deals out there.
It looks like I have 3 options:-
1. If I can get finance on the old GFV terms (doubtful, I have nothing documentary to back it up), the interest to pay vs leaving money in the bank will leave me £2300 worse off than I thought, but I will be able to get the 3 year service pack for £199, leaving me about £2k worse off.
2. Get finance on the lower GFV rate (worst option IMO) and leave the money in the bank.
3. Buy R in cash as planned and be about £3000 likely worse off on p/x as the GFV has fallen by that much.
4. Cut my losses and go for an S3, paying £2500 more on the top end to add Driver assist pack (Light and rain sensors, Audi park plus, high beam assistant, lane assist, ACC), Folding/heated door mirrors, Auto-dimming rear view mirror, hold assist, Sepang blue paint. The S3 comes with fine nappa leather seats and a few other bits and bobs not standard on the R that I wouldn’t normally buy. £2500 more on the top end and at least £2000 more back in p/x (judging by the GFV being at least £2000 more if my last conversation with an Audi garage was anything to go by).
5. Wait for the next bargain lease deal to come through on the R and jump to that, handing the GTD over to the missus when she eventually learns to drive (she’ll be bussing it to work if she hasn’t taken and passed her test by next July).
The S3 is looking the more tempting option right now (option 4) on the assumption I can’t get the higher GFV on finance (option 1) to mitigate the £3k loss I would suffer on option 3. I prefer the exterior looks of the R overall, but the more aggressive front of the S3 does redeem some of the estate car looks (I would likely be going Sportback) and I like the interior more (although previously not enough to pay what would have been an extra £3k for the privilege). I will have to learn to cut people up and not let people out at junctions etc if I do get behind the wheel of an Audi. There won’t be as many S3s out there either.
I do wonder what the motivation is for the Decimation of the R GFVs and significant step-down in those for the GTI and GTD too:-
Too high for the market to bear vs the competition? Too many out there/ordered to satisfy projected used market demand? VWFS not happy about the lease deals competing too aggressively with the dealership PCP route and so stiffing the lease companies (and the rest of us are just collateral damage) so they’ll make nowt on the deal when the car gets sold at end of lease term and won’t repeat? Audi kicking off about VW’s high GFVs potentially cannibalising too many sales to VW from Audi? VW just trying to dampen the market because they can’t keep up with demand or are seeing the lower spec car sales suffer (as they’ve traditionally had significantly lower GFVs – you could get a GTD cheaper than a 150ps TDI GT on solutions as a result).
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You say you have the money in the bank, so why not just buy the car?
Unless you've managed to find some sort of high risk high yield savings account, the money you have in the bank is always going to be earning less than you are paying on a loan - by many times usually.
Always better to go with the cheapest form of spending.
On the other hand, maybe you are looking from a cash flow perspective, in which case I'd go for a hybrid deal, increase the cash deposit to balance your cash at bank.
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I know when I agreed the deal and placed my order for my GTI just over 12 months ago it was based on a certain monthly figure. If they'd have tried to change that when I collected I would have walked away. I would have thought if you've agreed the deal, then that's that.
All of those GFV's seem low to me though... I'm sure mine is around the £15.5k mark even after 4 yrs... Saying that, list price on mine was £30,540 so at 51% that would make sense.
If you were ordering now on the new GFVs, your GTI as per your signature would be coming up as worth around £14k dead (options retaining about 20% of their cost after 3 years), giving you a GFV of around 45.8% after 3 years. I’m not counting the options though, they’re not representative of the car as a whole. I can’t see how you got a GFV of 51% after 4 years, the GTI and the GTD have never been that high. The basic GTI was around 51% after 3 years on all the finance examples I have seen.
I can’t believe how full of doom and gloom I am over those GFVs on their website after really looking forward to my R. As you can tell, residuals do play a large part of my decision making for a new car.
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You say you have the money in the bank, so why not just buy the car?
Unless you've managed to find some sort of high risk high yield savings account, the money you have in the bank is always going to be earning less than you are paying on a loan - by many times usually.
Always better to go with the cheapest form of spending.
On the other hand, maybe you are looking from a cash flow perspective, in which case I'd go for a hybrid deal, increase the cash deposit to balance your cash at bank.
Fredgroves:
Usually you’d be right with what you’ve said, but the potential of getting the old high GFV on PCP and walking away vs buying a car that will now be worth £3k less than I thought it would even things up in PCP favour.
Paying off outright and saving £3700 PCP interest on a car with a car now worth £3k less than anticipated and not earning interest in the bank vs taking out PCP on the £3k higher GFV (if that is still an option) only leaves me £700 down overall plus the potential to make £1450 in interest from a 3% return on my £22k required and £300 saving on 3 years servicing (after £5k equity I’ll have in my GTD and the discount) to get the R, putting me up by £750. This is only true on the assumption that I am still eligible to get the old GFV via PCP, still leaving me £1950 worse off than I thought I’d be just a few days ago before the GFVs were touched.
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MH your other option is of course just to keep hold of the GTD
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MH your other option is of course just to keep hold of the GTD
I had thought about that too, that would be the very sensible option considering I don't know how far my commute will be when I get made redundant and have to change jobs. If that was what I was doing then I'd be getting the Bridgestones off.
Enquiring about an S3.....
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Your fixed into the original finance mate.
No need to panic at all. They won't change it. Already had that discussion.
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Your fixed into the original finance mate.
No need to panic at all. They won't change it. Already had that discussion.
Chris: I didn't need the finance (which was going to save me a canny bit every month), but now it seems daft not to take it if the car is truly worth £3k less in 3 years time, effectively making the finance virtually free vs buying outright and seeing a likely p/x price of £16700 instead of expected £19700. Did Mick have any comments on why they've given all the GFVs a kicking?
Looking more likely that getting this R would see me in zero equity at p/x time and potentially walking away at the end of the term. The alternative is paying £2500 more out for a discounted S3 which will come with Nappa seats and specced to an R's equipment level + lane assist and headlight assist, and have it with a GFV around £2k higher than the R.
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Right I get what your saying now buddy. Apologies. Mick didn't mention why the finance had such huge changes but if you look at it from a slightly different point of view, this change will make it more difficult for people to afford an R therefore potentially reducing the rapidly flooding market. Hopefully helping the value long term.
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I know when I agreed the deal and placed my order for my GTI just over 12 months ago it was based on a certain monthly figure. If they'd have tried to change that when I collected I would have walked away. I would have thought if you've agreed the deal, then that's that.
All of those GFV's seem low to me though... I'm sure mine is around the £15.5k mark even after 4 yrs... Saying that, list price on mine was £30,540 so at 51% that would make sense.
If you were ordering now on the new GFVs, your GTI as per your signature would be coming up as worth around £14k dead (options retaining about 20% of their cost after 3 years), giving you a GFV of around 45.8% after 3 years. I’m not counting the options though, they’re not representative of the car as a whole. I can’t see how you got a GFV of 51% after 4 years, the GTI and the GTD have never been that high. The basic GTI was around 51% after 3 years on all the finance examples I have seen.
I can’t believe how full of doom and gloom I am over those GFVs on their website after really looking forward to my R. As you can tell, residuals do play a large part of my decision making for a new car.
Hmm you've got me thinking now. I'll check my agreement when I get home tonight and have a look at the figures.
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MH: My GFV after 4 years is £16,500. I expect it to be worth more than that if I keep it 4 years (unlikely, I'll probably change before that) ie. enough to use as a deposit for my next car. If you look at the history of the R, R32 & GTI, they always hold their value very well. I have zero concerns about what the car will be worth once I'm ready to chop it in as VW's of that nature will always be sought after cars on the second hand market :smiley:
They've obviously lowered the GFV to stop these cheap lease deals, as that pushes the monthly payment right up. And that means less R's/GTI's on the road - and that's a good thing for all of us :cool:
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MH: My GFV after 4 years is £16,500. I expect it to be worth more than that if I keep it 4 years (unlikely, I'll probably change before that) ie. enough to use as a deposit for my next car. If you look at the history of the R, R32 & GTI, they always hold their value very well. I have zero concerns about what the car will be worth once I'm ready to chop it in as VW's of that nature will always be sought after cars on the second hand market :smiley:
They've obviously lowered the GFV to stop these cheap lease deals, as that pushes the monthly payment right up. And that means less R's/GTI's on the road - and that's a good thing for all of us :cool:
The one difference with the 7R is that all the others (R32/5, 6R) were extremely rare, not sure how rare the 7R will be when all those leases hit our shores from Jan to April - still rare, but not super-rare. Waiting to hear about a couple of potential S3 deals, mainly that I know the discount is achievable on the S3, but not what they'll offer on the GTD in p/x.
I'm in 2 minds: The R has a nicer overall shape and I don't feel the need to add any spec beyond metallic paint (which will put me on a par with the lease specials), the GFV drop has really knocked my confidence as to worth down the line. The S3 will be a rarer sight, and I like the interior and the front end more, the GFVs haven't slumped. But Audi drivers are stereotypically complete twits.... If the GFVs had only slumped a grand I wouldn't even think about it.
Can't see the likes of me buying cash and then being offered £19600 if the prevailing GFV is only £15700. They could've done it purely to scare away the lease companies, but I can't see there being a 2 tier system of what is offered in p/x - £3k more for private buyers than the leasers disposing of end of lease stock.
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MH: My GFV after 4 years is £16,500. I expect it to be worth more than that if I keep it 4 years (unlikely, I'll probably change before that) ie. enough to use as a deposit for my next car. If you look at the history of the R, R32 & GTI, they always hold their value very well. I have zero concerns about what the car will be worth once I'm ready to chop it in as VW's of that nature will always be sought after cars on the second hand market :smiley:
They've obviously lowered the GFV to stop these cheap lease deals, as that pushes the monthly payment right up. And that means less R's/GTI's on the road - and that's a good thing for all of us :cool:
I think this was always going to happen. VW obviously filling obligations until the bean counters pulled the plug on it - I expect someone looked at the stockpiled bumpers, GTI engines and VAQ diffs sat in a corner of the factory and thought "WTF?" before getting on the blower to someone in a grey suit somewhere which stated a chain reaction. In other words it certainly didn't go unnoticed by VW management that every other car ordered was an R...
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I can't see there being a 2 tier system of what is offered in p/x - £3k more for private buyers than the leasers disposing of end of lease stock.
VW finance underwrote most of the lease deals so I expect a few arses have been kicked and they'll try and hold on to the ex-leasers in the dealer network throwing them into closed auctions or possibly drip feeding them into the dealer network then leaving all the ratty scratched basic spec cars to go to general auction where the car supermarkets will pick them up cheap and knock them out quickly at retail so there will only be a very quick dip in the used prices. It's in VW's interest to keep their halo models prices high on the second hand market as an awful lot are bought by private buyers and if they're getting poor part-ex prices I'm sure BMW etc will be the ones that benefit and VW will be losing the new car sales and the second hand sales too meaning less finance deals.
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Exonian: I'd agree with you about BMW - they've become the fleet car of choice, it seems no-one buys a new one privately any more, not when 47% GFV for their best performers is the norm.
If VW handle the ex-lease cars right and integrate them all (or nearly all) back into the dealership network then at least the network can set the prices. I buy VWs with a mind to residuals as well as liking their cars. I generally expect the cars I choose to retain 55% of RRP and to get 10% discount or close to it. If that wasn't happening i'd be buying a great car that has relatively poor residuals a few years old. If VW decimate part-ex prices they will alienate a fair proportion of their new retail buyers.
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Exonian: I'd agree with you about BMW - they've become the fleet car of choice, it seems no-one buys a new one privately any more, not when 47% GFV for their best performers is the norm.
If VW handle the ex-lease cars right and integrate them all (or nearly all) back into the dealership network then at least the network can set the prices. I buy VWs with a mind to residuals as well as liking their cars. I generally expect the cars I choose to retain 55% of RRP and to get 10% discount or close to it. If that wasn't happening i'd be buying a great car that has relatively poor residuals a few years old. If VW decimate part-ex prices they will alienate a fair proportion of their new retail buyers.
Yes, that was what I was getting at about VW Finance trying to keep the cars within the VW network to keep the prices managed and also keep the finance 'in house' for the second hand buyers. Only the sh!tters will be chucked into general auction, all the others will go to in house VW auctions.
I'm very similar to you, I buy with a view of resale value and have generally bought 'nearly new' before the mk7 GTI to keep depreciation to an absolute minimum. I get no company car allowance or any other help from work so the ££ figures strongly for me. Incidentally although it's mainly % value depreciation which we look at in actual £££ terms supermini hatches like the Clio 16v's and Polo GTI's depreciate less as they cost much less in the first place.
GFV of 50% on a big BMW would still be maybe £25k worth of dead money through depreciation but GFV on a Polo GTI of 40% would be far far far less in actual £££ terms so I also keep an eye on these type hatches too and will be taking a keen interest in the upcoming Polo 1.8 GTI.
So I've been reading your posts on values and costs with much interest over the last few months, just in case you think you've been wasting your efforts!!!
I've basically been sat waiting for the R bubble to burst knowing the knock on effect on my GTI will suffer.
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I feel such a traitor for looking into the S3. :evil:
Just had a browse on an audi specific forum and it seems to have more than it's fair share of bell-ends, do I really want to become one of them? The cautious side of me still thinks the S3 is a safer place for my money right now, and it will be a change to get in one of them than a 7R. Still waiting to find out about the whole price to change, if i get shafted on p/x GTD value then its a definite no go.
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Keep your money and keep the gtd for another year and see what comes out then. Seems your redundancy is already burning a hole in your pocket :grin: :grin:
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I have just jumped on the golf r bandwagon after getting £22,500 trade in for my current mk7 gti dsg pp , which come April,May when I pick up the golf r it will have 11,000 miles on the clock & be 14months old.
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Keep your money and keep the gtd for another year and see what comes out then. Seems your redundancy is already burning a hole in your pocket :grin: :grin:
If I did that, I'd probably end up with an R400. :whistle:
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I feel such a traitor for looking into the S3. :evil:
Just had a browse on an audi specific forum and it seems to have more than it's fair share of bell-ends, do I really want to become one of them? The cautious side of me still thinks the S3 is a safer place for my money right now, and it will be a change to get in one of them than a 7R. Still waiting to find out about the whole price to change, if i get shafted on p/x GTD value then its a definite no go.
Jumped from being an Audi faithful of 7 years to VW last time as thought the MK7 was a more stylish and far better value with all the included options.
Now I am looking at S3 too but think the above is going to apply in that it will be bare specification and still not that convinced of the styling.
When see A3 on road I notice it but more in the way of wanting to love it and yet it just does nothing for me.
Will test an S3, and R and if none of them really give me that additional 'feeling' over the GTD for my standard driving (100% keeping it) then going to take a left turn and go Tiguan R as the alternate comfort 4WD option.
Do not think going to Audi is being a traitor as they as closely aligned to VW as can be, so if the liking of the car is comparable then the value getting decides.
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Monkeyhanger - why not just revert to the R lease option as the cheap ones are around now?
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Just had a long discussion with my salesman with regards to impact of the £3k drop in GFV offered, he seemed to have time on his hands, so we were chatting quite a bit about the ins and outs of it all.
I asked whether I was eligible to be on the £18576 GFV system (as I’d done some sums that’ll be below). He said basically that finance quotes are valid for 30 days and are based on quarterly finance campaigns, so officially it’s a no for the likes of me and some others here ordering in Q3 of 2014 and expecting our cars for the middle/end of Q1 of 2015.
He assured me (I’m not all that assured, but he tried) that my expectations for p/x will still be realistic, but the old days of getting £1000/1500 “equity” for p/x will be gone and on an R in 3 years time, expect to have more like £4000 when you’ve done a £15576 GFV financial deal (This is more how Audi works, so I’ve been told – a very low/conservative GFV quite distanced from p/x value reality). You pay more upfront, incur less interest as a result and get a larger deposit on your next car – strongly encouraging you to come back for another VW. He said the GFVs were set so high on the Rs that there’ll be little to no equity in them at trade-in, but people on the new GFVs will see a decent deposit. Reality is though that they’ll be paying approx. £95 a month more on their Rs than they thought they were going to.
I said that given the choices of buying outright and hoping for £19k p/x after 3 years (1), buying on finance at £18576 GFV and potentially walking away with nothing (2), or buying on finance at £15576 GFV and hoping for £19k p/x (3), I’d prefer the sure thing of option 2, putting the monetary monthly difference between options 2 and 3 in the bank and banking my purchase money (£22k needed) for my next deposit. He said I could write a letter to VWFS to request that they honour the financial prices I’d taken as a given when considering a purchase. Legally they can say no (finance quote valid for 30 days), but they’ll likely say yes, especially if a sale hinges on it. If I could rely on p/x to be around the £18-19k mark because these were up on the forecourt for £23/24k at 3 years old then I would be doing option 1 to eliminate interest.
The biggest risk with these low GFV deals is that they use the higher equity given as leverage to beat down discount on the new one, like your R is worth £18k p/x there, but against a BMW it’ll only be worth £15k etc, it would keep brand loyalty up if that were the case – who is going to walk away from £4k equity?
Between equity in my GTD and discount I need £22k for my R.
Option 1 above was going to see me take £22k cash to pay it off and return it to the bank at £320 a month (earning 3% interest), with the car assumed to be worth £19k in p/x at 3 years old. I would’ve paid back £12040 of my £22k, leaving me £6960 up, minus £1440 interest I would’ve had by leaving the money in the bank leaves me £5520 up for equity, but reliance on VW perhaps to achieve that p/x.
Option 2 sees me leaving my money in the bank, paying £205 a month to VWFS, chucking the £115 difference in the bank every month, earning interest that will amount to £4326 over the term + potentially £400 p/x allowance (trying to keep everything at £19k expected p/x here) to end up with £4726 equity, or £4326 cash that doesn’t rely on me returning to VW to spend it.
Option 3 sees me leaving my money in the bank, paying £288 a month to VWFS, chucking the £32 difference in the bank every month, earning interest that will amount to £1203 over the term + potentially £3424 p/x allowance (trying to keep everything at £19k expected p/x here) to end up with £4627 equity, but relies on me returning to VW to spend ¾ of it.
So assuming actual p/x values aren’t spoilt by the low GFV and it doesn’t affect your ability to negotiate a discount, Option 1 is marginally better for me. My money is on the sure fire option 2 (but relies on me keeping the car 36 months if I don’t buy a VW next time.
With these sums in mind, if I can get the guaranteed finance figures previously posted (£18576) I’m going to stick with the R, taking option 2.
He says that in the grand scheme of things, the number of leases out there are small potatoes, and the p/x price and GFV price being so far apart will prevent future spates of cheap leases.
If £4k equity in p/x is the future of R owners, i'm surprised how little there is in it between the 3 options.
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Monkeyhanger - why not just revert to the R lease option as the cheap ones are around now?
I still have the hassle of getting rid of the GTD and there are very few cheap lease spots left now (if any). If VW dealers can offer leasing terms into the next quarter (fixed terms now, for a car that won't be built until the next quarter), I can't see why VWFS wouldn't be able to honour the higher GFV for those that ordered Sept/Oct.
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Jumped from being an Audi faithful of 7 years to VW last time as thought the MK7 was a more stylish and far better value with all the included options.
Now I am looking at S3 too but think the above is going to apply in that it will be bare specification and still not that convinced of the styling.
When see A3 on road I notice it but more in the way of wanting to love it and yet it just does nothing for me.
Will test an S3, and R and if none of them really give me that additional 'feeling' over the GTD for my standard driving (100% keeping it) then going to take a left turn and go Tiguan R as the alternate comfort 4WD option.
Do not think going to Audi is being a traitor as they as closely aligned to VW as can be, so if the liking of the car is comparable then the value getting decides.
Had a Carwow best quote of £3700 saving on the S3 with around £2500 options to get it up to R spec on the technology front with VW Coventry, unfortunately they wouldn’t commit to a p/x value on the GTD, saying it was worth £18000 to them right now, and I reckon a grand less than that in March (£250 a month depreciation), making the S3 effectively £4400 more cost to change to chase a GFV £2k better (net £2400 more than the R). Carfile are offering £4200 off the same spec, but haven’t contacted them about what the GTD is worth to them. If they valued my GTD same as my R deal (£18500 in March) then the S3 would be costing around £2400 to chase a £2k better GFV. I believe that could be worth it.
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MH: your attention to detail regarding the figures appeals to the accountant in me - good work!
The trouble you have is that no matter how you analyse things out, the bottom line is that your figures are based on an estimated return in 3 years - the GFV given at the moment could be extremly accurate - or, as its 3 years away, could be total balls and your car could be worth a lot more than that!
The anti accountant in me suggests you say 'f7ck it' and just go with the car you want - either the R or the S3 - both are cracking motors at the end of the day!
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MH: Option 2 would be my preferred choice as well purely because it's not tying you into VW in future years. Okay you have to keep the car for three years but given it's the flagship golf thats no great hardship. The issue is if you go with one of the other two options, come three years from now, what VW would you move to?
Yes there might be a new scirocco out by then but it's probably going to look (internally) and feel very much like the golf. After 4.5 years of ownership of a mk7 golf I would be looking to move on and try something different rather than have little choice available.
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I still have the hassle of getting rid of the GTD and there are very few cheap lease spots left now (if any).
There were a week or so ago when I last checked.
If yours is a nice car you will always find a VW dealer that will take it a straight purchase for stock - thats how I disposed of my 2012 Scirocco last spring.
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MH: your attention to detail regarding the figures appeals to the accountant in me - good work!
It's amazing what can be achieved at work when there's nowt pressing on.
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MH: your attention to detail regarding the figures appeals to the accountant in me - good work!
It's amazing what can be achieved at work when there's nowt pressing on.
I don't believe there's ever an occasion whereby work is more important than looking/talking about/ordering cars :laugh:
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Keeping Option 2 as my favourite for guaranteed residuals (worst case I hand it back after 3 years) and also remembering that options 2 and 3 are £184 better than option 1 as i'll have access to the £199 3 years servicing deal rather than 24 x £15.99 payments.
Just fired off an email to VWVS with my order number asking them to confirm that I will have access to the £18576 GFV terms that were in place when I placed my order. If they won't, then the S3 might still be back on the table.
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I'm sorry but I just couldn't believe a dealer that told me yeah it is a smaller GFV figure but expect to get £3k - £4k more come trade in time. They will simply tell you anything for that sale. If he is so confident ask him and his manager for some form of written agreement of what they will offer for the car come 3 years time!!
Are you sure Audi work this way as well? Low GFV, higher trade in?
That is pretty gutting they have amended the figures like that. No wonder you have started to look at other options.
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I'm sorry but I just couldn't believe a dealer that told me yeah it is a smaller GFV figure but expect to get £3k - £4k more come trade in time. They will simply tell you anything for that sale. If he is so confident ask him and his manager for some form of written agreement of what they will offer for the car come 3 years time!!
Are you sure Audi work this way as well? Low GFV, higher trade in?
That is pretty gutting they have amended the figures like that. No wonder you have started to look at other options.
I'm sure it is all sales patter too, i've never seen £3k back over GFV on any of my previous 6 VWs bought new, best seen was £1500. If they end up giving you £3k more than GFV at end of term i'm sure it'll come at the cost of leverage to get a good level of discount on top. On the other hand, if used prices stay where I was expecting them to be (£22k for a 3 year old one on the forecourt) because demand outstrips supply, could they really get away with wanting to make £5500 on a used R because they were only offering you £16500 (a grand over the new GFV)? Actually them being greedy fatherless sons is very believable. If Used forecourt prices hold up but p/x prices don't, buying outright and selling privately might be the best option (although we all know how much of a ball-ache selling an expensive car privately can be).
The Audi thing is based on patter I was told when I looked into an S3 about a month before looking into Rs. I went to my local dealership and was shocked that the GFV was only £17500 on a 3 year old S3 when it was still £18600 on the R. The salesman told me that p/xers typically get £2500 more for their S3 than GFV and that Audi GFVs are usually more cautious than VWs. I have no Audi buying/selling experiences to back that up, but at the time it did make sense because otherwise i'd be wondering how the hell is a used R worth more than a used S3 at 2 or 3 years down the line. But again, higher discretionary p/x price makes for less leverage on the discounts.
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The assumption in all these discussions seems to be that the current car will ultimately be traded in - why restrict yourself to that? This is a sure way of reducing and/or masking the savings to be made on the deal for the next car.
My method has always been to get the best deal on the purchase of the new car without disposal of the old one being linked to that deal. That leaves the real purchase cost completely transparent. The next task is to then sell the old car to the highest bidder which could be a private sale or disposal to the trade (in this case a VW dealer looking for high quality one owner stock).
This is what i did on my last transaction - new car purchased through Drive The Deal with maximum discount and old one sold to its servicing VW dealer for 200 quid under advertised private asking price.
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The assumption in all these discussions seems to be that the current car will ultimately be traded in - why restrict yourself to that? This is a sure way of reducing and/or masking the savings to be made on the deal for the next car.
My method has always been to get the best deal on the purchase of the new car without disposal of the old one being linked to that deal. That leaves the real purchase cots completely transparent. The next task is to then sell the old car to the highest bidder which could be a private sale or disposal to the trade (in this case a VW dealer looking for high quality one owner stock).
This is what i did on my last transaction - new car purchased through Drive The Deal with maximum discount and old one sold to its servicing VW dealer for 200 quid under advertised private asking price.
Mark, that's one way of going about it, and the best if everything goes smoothly e.g.. you sell the old car exactly when you want to, and for the best price. Can't see me honestly getting within a grand of p/x price to sell the car back to the dealer, I've looked into it before and been offered £800 more than the WBAC website, that's at least 1/2 of this GFV gap. Selling an expensive car privately is always hard work - people generally want the dealership assurity and service, access to finance etc, even if it comes in at an extra £2k or more.
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Just called VWFS and spoke to someone. They claimed not to have any control over securing the old £18576 GFV terms on a financial deal that were available at the time of ordering and have since changed to affect monthly payments by £96pm, and tried to immediately bounce me back to my dealer. Explained that the dealer said they can do nothing and told me to phone VWFS. I asked if there was the possibility that they could do something, but that maybe the representative was unaware. He went and got his boss, who explained to me that there is nothing they can do and there is no scheme whereby they can pin those terms to my order. I would have to speak to my dealer who may or may not be able to secure those terms through other channels (they didn’t sound confident).
They asked whether I had signed a finance agreement (which I haven’t), and I said the dealer didn’t bother doing that as the terms are only valid for 30 days and my car was 5.5 months away at that point. Back to the dealer methinks, to see if they can find a way to secure those terms.
If not, options are:
1. Cancel order, get my deposit back, ride out the GTD a while longer and, maybe ordering for next Sept.
2. Cancel order, order an S3 (which will cost me 2110 more on the same p/x terms, if I can get them – doesn’t look good so far as they’re valuing it for £18k right now and are non-committal on a probable £17k value in March, making the deal £3610 worse off) and get a GFV about £2300 higher, ending up with additions of lane assist, high beam assist, nappa leather over and above the R spec after adding options and packs to bring it up to R spec on the technology front.
3. Stick with the R on a cash only deal and look to sell privately, or in p/x, hoping actual used prices won’t be representative of the low GFV.
I’m waiting on a couple of call backs about the discounted S3, with value of my GTD being key to the deal.
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I still have the hassle of getting rid of the GTD and there are very few cheap lease spots left now (if any).
There were a week or so ago when I last checked.
If yours is a nice car you will always find a VW dealer that will take it a straight purchase for stock - thats how I disposed of my 2012 Scirocco last spring.
How did you do tht just contact the dealership direct
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Can't see me honestly getting within a grand of p/x price to sell the car back to the dealer, I've looked into it before and been offered £800 more than the WBAC website, that's at least 1/2 of this GFV gap.
You misunderstand - you offer it to several VW dealers countrywide and with a superb car such as yours - they will make offers. i had several interested in my Roc and accepted the highest bid. You send them full specs and photos and they will be interested if its a good car for them to stock. There is a dearth of one to two year old high spec cars in top condition and believe me they will be interested.
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Can't see me honestly getting within a grand of p/x price to sell the car back to the dealer, I've looked into it before and been offered £800 more than the WBAC website, that's at least 1/2 of this GFV gap.
You misunderstand - you offer it to several VW dealers countrywide and with a superb car such as yours - they will make offers. i had several interested in my Roc and accepted the highest bid. You send them full specs and photos and they will be interested if its a good car for them to stock. There is a dearth of one to two year old high spec cars in top condition and believe me they will be interested.
Not really keen on sunroofs, Dynaudio seems pointless on a car so loud and the standard audio set-up is very good for standard fit, SatNav -never really use them, ride is fine enough for me not to want DCC. All IMO of course. The standard spec of the GTI/GTD/R are very good.
Top condition? Maybe. High spec? Mine is completely standard. Nothing in the options I really felt the need to add at cost and would use daily, the essentials for me are Xenons, parking sensors, auto-dimming rear view mirror and the ACC comes in handy for the sensors, but VW already took care of all that. I'd buy those if they weren't standard. If I bought cash and sold after a year I might do better than p/x, people may be willing to jump the 5 month queue.
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I mean 'top spec' as in its a GTD and not an S.... being an enthusiast I just assumed you looked after your car.
Anyway there is my advice and suggestion - it works for me ;-)
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I mean 'top spec' as in its a GTD and not an S.... being an enthusiast I just assumed you looked after your car.
Anyway there is my advice and suggestion - it works for me ;-)
My mistake, I thought you meant lots of extras. waiting on some numbers that might have been sent to my works email in relation to S3 and (most importantly) part-ex value on the GTD. Yeah, mine is tidy, if a little unwashed right now. :grin: :grin:
If the p/x prices on S3 offers are non-committal (as per Orange wheels converastion) or low, i'll stick with the R for sure and pay cash, possibly getting shot privately after 18 months before the leasers hit the used market (that might not have an impact, but VW cutting their risks right down with a GFV £3k lower than before doesn't give me complete confidence).
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Interesting reading this MH . I too am thinking about going down the S3 route (GTD is up for sale right now). I was also quite shocked that GFV for the S3 was lower than the R. Looking at 3 year old S3's on autotrader you should be able to get at least 20k on a private sale. Do you know what the maximum deposit is for audi solutions as i dont want to borrow too much money at 7.4% apr.
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Interesting reading this MH . I too am thinking about going down the S3 route (GTD is up for sale right now). I was also quite shocked that GFV for the S3 was lower than the R. Looking at 3 year old S3's on autotrader you should be able to get at least 20k on a private sale. Do you know what the maximum deposit is for audi solutions as i dont want to borrow too much money at 7.4% apr.
I'm sticking with the R now. The Audi dealers on the broker sites were looking to give me £17k for the GTD come March (18 months old), I have a solid £18.5k p/x from my VW dealer. I'll still try my arm to sell it privately through ebay/pistonheads for up to £21k at the start of Feb (they're as low as £23.5k via dealerships sold on ebay right now, will probably drop to £22.5k then).
With that difference in valuations, the S3 didn't seem quite so appealing. If i'm worried about residuals with the leasers coming through, i'll try and get shot privately at 18 months old for £22k/23k and have an S3 on order in the meantime. Might be refreshing for an S3 next time, after 2 MK7s in a row.
You need to speak to a dealer for max deposit, unlike the VW website, you can't really do finance tweaks and comparisons on the Audi site with umpteen different deposit combinations.
Let me know how you get on selling your GTD, it will give me an idea of how easy mine will be to shift privately. As long as i'm at least £1500 cheaper than the nearest dealer price and willing to drop £500, I think the inconvenience of having to arrange your own finance (if buyer not cash flush) will be more than overcome with a £2k saving (that's the theory anyway).
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GTD sale info so far MH (Jun14 GTD 5 door red, leather, 4kmiles): 2 offers at 21k, 1 offer at 22k, Time Waster 22.5k nearly sold)
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GTD sale info so far MH (Jun14 GTD 5 door red, leather, 4kmiles): 2 offers at 21k, 1 offer at 22k, Time Waster 22.5k nearly sold)
Wow - people really do want something for nothing - your car is 9 months younger than mine and has leather. I thought going £2k less than ebay dealerships would be a winner - where are you advertising it? I'd settle for £20500 on mine to be car-less for a month, but I can get to work on the Metro (no great hardship apart from the danger of sitting next to the odd window-licker for a few stations!)
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we have a nice flash Audi showroom just opened by me and went to have a look at a S3 and enquire about the new TTS, after cracking my head on the A pillar i personally think the dash is a bit underwhelming, only thing i liked more was the wheel and dsg paddles and the could extend the base of the seat
selling privately is handwork, i sold my 35 to a dealer for more than i would have got privately
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Yes it is a bit annoying dealing with all the bell ends when selling privately. But worth it in the end. Lucky I have an old BMW to run around in while the VW is up for sale.
The two VW dealers i asked would not even give me any price , just said they are not buying at the moment. The Essex Audi dealer quoted under 20k for part ex immediately, which is the same as we buy any c$r , and with zero discount on the price of the S3 ! Thanks a bunch lol !!
MH - car is on autotrader
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I'm not sure how pissed off my dealer will be if I get it sold privately. I got a great deal on the new one, in the knowledge that they would have a far bigger margin in the p/x. Could they pull the plug on selling me the R if they weren't getting the p/x? I somehow doubt it as the car could get stolen or written off in the time between ordering the car and it being ready.
Jon-SST: I wonder how much geographical location comes into ease of selling a certain marque? Lots of VWs up here in the North East, harking back to a time when people didn't buy readily rusting renaults and Fiats, every other car between Teesside and Tyneside used to be a Volvo or VW 20 years ago. Go down to Essex and every other car used to be a Ford due to the proximity of the Dunton and Dagenham plants.
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Every other car is a land rover of some kind round here lol . Plus about a million fiestas yes ! Very few VW which is one of the reasons i choose it.
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The two VW dealers i asked would not even give me any price , just said they are not buying at the moment.
You need to cast your net much further than that!!