GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: AlanGTI on 21 October 2003, 22:30
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So come on guys i need to know which is the best!
Insurance aint much different so that don't matter.I aint driven either as yet so i suppose that will be a big factor.My mate who knows them inside and out sais go for the 8V ??? More low down torque and with a few mods will be nearly up to the 16V in the speed stakes.
If you have driven both just give me some examples of drving situations that you come accross and either have felt better if you get me!
Discuss ;D
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The 16v drives just like the 8v low down, but over 4000rpm the 16v launches. The low down torque on the 8v is more than the 16v is bollox, its what 8v owners say to make themselves feel better. Get a 16v, its simply the better engine.
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I HAVE A 8 VALVER AND I AINT THAT IMPRESSED BUT IT IS FUN TO DRIVE HANDLING WISE...GO WITH A 16VALVE MATE THEY ARE REVIER AND YOU WONT HAVE TO LAY OUT FOR THE MODS.... I HAVE ONLY JUST PURCHASED A MK2 8V BUT ALL MY OTHER CARS WERE 16V AND I DO PREFER THEM BUT MY 8V COST ME ?50 LAST FRIDAY SO BEGGERS CANT BE CHOOSERS.
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I do prefer the 8V to be honest guys but they are rare even on the Trader site! :(
I want PAS though and it has to be a 3 door.Oak green prefered but i like the gray ;D
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as already said, a properly setup 16v will pull just aswell as an 8v thru the low rev's but once the 16v hits 4k rpm the 8v is uncomparible
plus you dont get the 16v howl with an 8v
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Hi Gambit ;D
Corsa nut of CS here,did you miss my hello post in Chat mate??
Anyway i think the 16V is the way to go..The search continues ::)
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looking at the power and torque graph, it is true that the 16v can have slighly less torque than the 8v at certain engine speeds but in reality, on a well run-in example it is barely noticeable and as everyone has said, hit 4000rpm and the 16v takes off like an 8v never will.
I always used to run out of puff in an 8v when overtaking but haven't yet in a 16v.
However the MPG of a 16v is around 30 whilst an 8v will be around 38. Quite a difference if you do miles. Also the 16v is a fair bit more complex so with high miles/small budget I'd go for an 8v.
If you drive on the kind of roads where you can make full use of the 16v's top end then buy one. Or if you live within the M25 get an 8v ;)
Let's face it, both will be a good choice.
Cheers
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I hardly use my car but when i do i like to drive it if you get me ;)
I think the 16V will have to be the weapon of choice 8) 8) 8)
MPG 30?? I heard it can be as low as 25? On the 16V that is...
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awright mate!
all i can say is drive both of them, or at least get somebody to take you for a drive in both an 8v & 16v - the see how much more fun the 16v is to drive
16v is by far & away your weapon of choice ;D if you buy an 8v you'll be wanting a 16v within a matter of months!
just dont jump at the 1st one you see, look around and you will find the one for you - took me 3mths to find mine!!
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..there's a reasonably famous Quentin Willson quote from the back pages of Top Gear magaxine circa 1995 when he'd written a brief guide to the Golf GTI 16v.
He said "gun it and you'll still get 30 mpg"!
They do use more fuel if there are problem with setup or head.
I had the valves lapped in on my 110k mile tack day 16v and after that it used less fuel and sounded like a good 16v should do. Before it would rarely top 30mpg.
Set a limit at 120k miles and insist on a full history and you should be OK!
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I'm currently in the position of having bought a mint Mk2 8v, I really enjoy driving it and can't fault it, other than wanting more power.
The 8v pulls well from low revs up to about 5,000rpm and then runs out of steam. My 8v is in such nice condition that it deserves to be kept standard, and so at the moment I'm keeping my eyes peeled for mint low mileage 16v, but finding one in as nice a condition as my 8v will be hard!
I've never driven a 16v and keep reading conflicting reports regarding low down pulling power. However my mechanic who runs a specialist early GTI garage said that a 16v will feel more like a 1600cc engine low down in comparision to an 8v, and he works on them for a living.
I guess until I get to drive one I won't know for sure ???
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"a 16v will feel more like a 1600cc engine low down in comparision to an 8v, and he works on them for a living."
wiggedy what? ???
your mechanic mate sounds like a bit of a plum - no offence intended - valves might be slightly down on torque under 3k - but like a 1.6??? ::)
I don't think so -
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Maybe I quoted what he said out of context, rather he was trying to illustrate the point (in simple terms to myself) that the 16v engine is not as flexible from low revs (i.e. from 1000rpm - 3500rpm) as an 8v. To put things more into context he also said that the 8v is more suited to an everyday runner, while you'd be mad not to have a 16v for track days, and that most well maintained Mk2 16v's end up producing more power than the original spec suggests, more like 150bhp rather than the standard 139bhp
Plus he's an excellent mechanic and works on GTI's for a living and is always very very busy because of the good reputation that he has built up!
Also if you read the article on Mk2 GTI's in this month?s edition of VW motoring, they say pretty much the same thing about 8v's pulling better from lower revs.....
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Thanks for the reply's lads ;D Wizard,zoid Gambit.
Looks like i'm gonna have to get this copy of VW motoring or whatever it's called and have a read eh.....
The MPG of the 16V sounds decent also.
Ooooo can't wait to get me arse in a Golf GTI 8)
Insurance is a lot more on the 16V though! Not enough to make me not get one though ;)
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Get yerself an 8v mate, dont listen to them
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Just scanned in the section of the VW Motoring article which talks about the 8v vs. 16v question... although I think they are talking out of their arses regarding the current market prices, if they reckon you can buy a mint 91 8v with only 70k for ?2,000, then I'll have half a dozen please!
(http://www.navalon.org.uk/temp/gti/8v-or-16v.gif)
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Mate your a star! Cheers for that :)
Now i aint so sure :-\ I mean i like the sound of the 8V being more stable to drive rather than having to rev the f**k out of it..
This is truly one of the hardest decisions i will ever make....... >:(
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yeah its true the 8v dont pull that much more after 5k rpm but the power down below that is well nice, ive got an old 85 1.8 8v all its got it a drilled airbox and lowered jamex shocks and springs, it drives like a roller skate, sucks like maddona and pulls like a train till about 5k, my mk4 20v gti dosnt really kick in till 3500-4000 rpm but hold on to its gears longer as it revs higher, the choice is yours nowt agaist the 16v but id rather have it lower down than have to rev the tits off it like i do in my 20v!
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Your welcome AlanGTI, it may be a tough decision but then again it really comes down to whats on offer. You have to remember the newest Mk2's are what 12 years old now, so I'd say base your decision on the best condition, lowest mileage within your price range that you can find. At the end of the day both the 8v and the 16v are great cars, just happens that one is a bit quicker than the other....
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There are loads of 8V's around my way too ::)
At least it's easyer for engine conversions and mods eh? The 1.9 mod sounds good ;D
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do what i did.....
buy both... lol
yeah, i drive the 8v every day, which has a few mods, and i drive the 16v when going out, it has sh!t loads of mods...
it depends what type of driver youe are...
fast, alway be off the lights first, enjoy a nice smooth ride in all gears, and like to save a few quid on petrol... go for the 8V
if you are always overtaking, like changing gears alot, and speeding off after a mates car, and very well off, then go for the 16V
i have both, i drive both, and i love both
your choice....
oh and my 8v will be for sale soon...
8)
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Just scanned in the section of the VW Motoring article which talks about the 8v vs. 16v question... although I think they are talking out of their arses regarding the current market prices, if they reckon you can buy a mint 91 8v with only 70k for ?2,000, then I'll have half a dozen please!
i picked up a 91 16v, 78k, all electircs & leather interior for 1200 ;)
they are out there, u just need to look hard enough!!
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Sounds like a good deal!
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sounds like an amazing deal! :o
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Just scanned in the section of the VW Motoring article which talks about the 8v vs. 16v question... although I think they are talking out of their arses regarding the current market prices, if they reckon you can buy a mint 91 8v with only 70k for ?2,000, then I'll have half a dozen please!
magazine journalists are still human, they are not gods, they go to the same pubs as us - in many respects they are the same as us. strange that.
but it means they still talk rubbish. just that they do it in print.
Tin
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Hi Alan
I would heartily recommend the 16V!
I had a 16V back in 1995 then had an 8V upto early this year now I'm happily sat back in a 16V.
I had the same dilema as yours when changing my car this year, stick with the 8V or return to the 16V?
As I'd had my 8V so long my memories of my 16V were starting to fade and I was starting to believe the old "16V is crap low in the rev range" stories.
In the end I said sod it and went for the 16V, best decision I ever made. My 16V is easily as smooth from just above 1000rpm as my 8V was.
Yeah my 8V was great fun but nothing compared to my 16V, pulls like a train right into the red in every gear (including 5th!).
However as people say the valver is more expensive to run and maintain. Mine recently developed the dreaded rattly camchain and that set me back ?400 to have rectified. Never spent a penny on the engine in my 8V except servicing and I covered about 70k in it!
If you really enjoy driving like me though the valver is definately worth the extra expense.
My search criteria was identical to yours "J plate oak green 16V 3door" I drove all over the country (literally) looking at sheds. In the end I had to settle for an H plate (it met all other requirements, one owner, fsh, totally standard).
Hope this helps, good luck with the search
Toby
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My search criteria was identical to yours "J plate oak green 16V 3door" I drove all over the country (literally) looking at sheds. In the end I had to settle for an H plate (it met all other requirements, one owner, fsh, totally standard).
That's exactly why the good ones will always get a high price (unless you get lucky)
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Thanks Toby :)
That's the type of info i was after mate.God damn it this is hard :-\
Spoke to a few lads in the business today and they say 8V!! But i really want the 16V ::)
I'm gonna hang meself before long :-X
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The lads in the business know their marbles
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Yeah one of the lads used to show his MK1 and has owned both 16V and 8V of the MK2 and his brother has the 8V.
The others own a VW tuning company near me ;D
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That may prove handy!
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Oooooooooooooo yes ;D
I think they have a diesel MK2 that is seriously fast ??? Will have to investigate!!
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I am a freelance VW journalist and last month I actually did buy a 91 8v with 75k for ?1900 - he was going to ask ?2000.
I did have to travel from Bham to Neath in South Wales to go get it though.
Get this - desirable 3 door in my favorite colour of Pearl Grey (Oak Green is way too corny now!) not one panel had ever been resprayed, FSH, 14 inch BBS RA, long MOT, tax, 3 owners, original number plates, perfect interior, Sony 10 CD.
Not bragging - just saying they are out there but you do have to get up early, travel miles and be prepared for disappointment.
cheers
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Luckyley my mate knows his stuff like so i should avoid all the sh!tters..
f**k me i'm pissed..offf to bed i think
16V is still callin after all this sh!t. ::)
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alright mate. i had the same probs when i first brought a golf. i had a 16v and wrote it off the brought an 8v. the 8v is so much more fun to drive. the response and torque lower down and in the mid range is much better and like you say the only real difference in the 16v is top end but with a few mods to the 8v wont be no different.
I got the late digifant with the electrics and power steering. there well good. go with the 8v, u know u want to, think of that torque, plus with the digifant u dont have to worry bout porting and polishing etc. plus the digifant, stick a gurth exhaust on it and u can do some brill back fires!!!!!!!
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I need to sell my car first and my buyer has just dropped out ::)
Can't wait to have the ???? and start lookin ;D
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VolksWizard looks like you got a good deal, I paid 3k for my 1990 8v (65k, 2 owners, PAS, etc), and I know it's quite a high price but it's absolutely immaculate. I think it's worth every penny, if you forget about the age and just value it based purely on condition, driving experience etc, it could easily match cars that cost 3 or 4 times as much. Plus I travelled up to Lincolnshire to view it (a whole days worth of travelling), as soon as I saw it on the driveway I knew it was special. If I hadn't of bought it I would still have been looking now, and probably would have wasted large amounts of time and not to mention money viewing allot of so called 'mint' cars, that turn out to be sheds! The really goods ones are now few and far between, you can see a photo of her here:
(http://www.navalon.org.uk/temp/gti/GTi-BBS.jpg)
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alright mate. i had the same probs when i first brought a golf. i had a 16v and wrote it off the brought an 8v. the 8v is so much more fun to drive. the response and torque lower down and in the mid range is much better and like you say the only real difference in the 16v is top end but with a few mods to the 8v wont be no different.
I got the late digifant with the electrics and power steering. there well good. go with the 8v, u know u want to, think of that torque, plus with the digifant u dont have to worry bout porting and polishing etc. plus the digifant, stick a gurth exhaust on it and u can do some brill back fires!!!!!!!
??? If the 8v is/was so good - why do a 16v?
The 16v is an altogether better car.
Quoting from VW Motoring Feb87 who test drove the New Mk2 16v:
This [8v Mk2 GTI] increased the power to 112 bhp and the torque to 109lbf ft (as opposed to 110 bhp and 102lbf ft for the 1600).
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In terms of bhp, the 16v produces 139 at 6,100rpm as opposed to the 8valves 112bhp at 5,500.
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More importantly [the 16v] between 2,800 rpm and 6,100 the torque never drops below 118lbf ft.
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So this is quite clear - the 16v develops more torque at 2800 rpm than the 8v does at any point on the rev range. So all this that the 8v is better lower down is RUBBISH.
As for the some of differences, the suspension and brakes are but to name a few items that got changed.
Mod'ing a car and comparing it to a non modified car is quite pointless. Its totally unfair comparison that has no boundaries.
Tin
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OMG :o
Zoid how MINT is your car!!!!
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Tin is spot on :D
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I've just been to show a lad my car and he seems really interested so the hunt might come sooner than expected ;D ;D ;D
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Listen to Tinman, go for a 16v ;D
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I still reckon go for the best condition MK2 GTI you can find in your price range, even though I have started looking to replace my 8v with a 16v, I won't do so unless I find a mint 16v. Personally I'd rather have a mint 8v than an average 16v....
Mind you I still have yet to drive a 16v, the garage where I get my 8v serviced has just got a 16v, I'll have to see if I can blag a test drive ;)
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Errrr, Alan.... there seems to be an Astra in you sig? :-\
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"Mind you I still have yet to drive a 16v"
wiggedy what?
c'mon mate, they're not that hard to test drive - overcome your fear . . . . :P
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Slim I?ve been meditating to clear my mind of all inner demons, now I am ready face my fears master :D
...but seriously I haven't see any 16v's worth pursuing yet, which is why I haven't got to drive one
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Errrr, Alan.... there seems to be an Astra in you sig? :-\
WOW! How the f**k did that get there!!! :o
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furry muff
loads of sheds out there
l
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Seen a couple of minters but at 3 to 5K there taking the piss a bit ::)
3 door ,Oak green, 16V, 66K ,1 owner, FVSH ,Full MOT ,Full Tax.Cat1 Alarm and immobiliser.
4K!!! Jeez :(
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look around Adam dont rush things mate take your time and find the right car its not a bad idea to buy a car that needs a "minor" bit of work than buying a polished up minter ,you wont know how good the car is till you have a all the bodykit off and get underneath the car and have a good scrape around I have seen a few mk2`s with nasty sills and rear wheelarches that are starting to go behind the bodykit ,a couple of mths ago I picked up a J plate oak green 16v in v good condition 112k 12mths mot FSH slight gearbox prob but only cost ?850..so have a good look round.. PS the misses has an 8v and the 16v is deffo the better drivers car but they are both damn fine cars whichever you choose :) :)
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Adam? LOL me names Alan matey ;)
Thanks for the info anyway mate,owning bith you should know!
Wanna sell the 16V??? I'll give you a very good price for it.Seriously.
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Seen a couple of minters but at 3 to 5K there taking the piss a bit
3 door ,Oak green, 16V, 66K ,1 owner, FVSH ,Full MOT ,Full Tax.Cat1 Alarm and immobiliser.
Hey where have you seen those mint GTI's, I've been looking and haven't seen anything really worth getting excited about?
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LOL sorry Alan was half watchin bellenders at same time. sorry want to keep the car I would imagine I`d have to spend quite a few grand to get a car that puts more of a smile on my face than either of the two mk2`s just finished taking off bodykit and slappin on loads of waxoyl a crappy job but is top stuff ,the 8v is prob better if you do a lot of commuting its amazing on fuel as well over 40mpg the misses has done 183k and runs a like a dream uses no oil/water v smooth gearbox so reliabilitly isnt a problem,is a nice lazy car to drive,and the parts are cheaper but then again the 16v isnt expensive to live with with they are both easy to work on, the only sod is the wifes has factory electric recaros and she wont let me swop em over :( wherabouts are you??
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Seen a couple of minters but at 3 to 5K there taking the piss a bit
3 door ,Oak green, 16V, 66K ,1 owner, FVSH ,Full MOT ,Full Tax.Cat1 Alarm and immobiliser.
Hey where have you seen those mint GTI's, I've been looking and haven't seen anything really worth getting excited about?
The back of 'The Golf' mag and the Performance VW mags mate ;)
The one i put down is in my local free ads :)
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LOL sorry Alan was half watchin bellenders at same time. sorry want to keep the car I would imagine I`d have to spend quite a few grand to get a car that puts more of a smile on my face than either of the two mk2`s just finished taking off bodykit and slappin on loads of waxoyl a crappy job but is top stuff ,the 8v is prob better if you do a lot of commuting its amazing on fuel as well over 40mpg the misses has done 183k and runs a like a dream uses no oil/water v smooth gearbox so reliabilitly isnt a problem,is a nice lazy car to drive,and the parts are cheaper but then again the 16v isnt expensive to live with with they are both easy to work on, the only sod is the wifes has factory electric recaros and she wont let me swop em over :( wherabouts are you??
I live in The North west mate.Birkenhead.Just swap the seats when she aint lookin ;) I don't use my car much now so it don't matter which one i go for.
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typical I`m other side to you m8 near Hull you could have had a look over both see what you thought if you were closer,but if you arent going to use it a great deal then without a shadow of a doubt get a 16v model,good luck..
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Hull :(
I could have give you a few ??? and you could have took me on a drive ;D lol
Cheers for the help though mate :)