GolfGTIforum.co.uk

Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Golf mk7 GTD/TDI => Topic started by: Carbon-Chiptuning on 06 August 2014, 17:13

Title: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: Carbon-Chiptuning on 06 August 2014, 17:13
After extensive development and testing, Carbon Chiptuning are now proud to present to the public our highly developed performance upgrade for the VW Golf Mk7 GTD.

(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy151/Nickcarbonst/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/1.jpg) (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/Nickcarbonst/media/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/1.jpg.html)

This is a very eagerly awaited upgrade as the latest version of EDC17 ECU used in the Mk7 Golf is installed from the factory with a very high level of security by means of Checksum/RSA protection of the software within.

This means that up until very recently it was impossible to change even 1 bit of data in any of the files inside the ECU without causing major trouble, the only option for tuning these engines was by means of a “Tuning box” or ”Tuning module” which just isn't what we are about.

As most of you probably know we ran a Mk6 GTD ourselves that was used for development and testing and allowed us to offer a very polished product to many MK6 GTD owners over the past few years.

We have now been running a Mk7 GTD since last year and have been waiting in the wind for the Checksum/RSA protection to be worked around so development could begin...........

(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy151/Nickcarbonst/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/2.jpg) (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/Nickcarbonst/media/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/2.jpg.html)

(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy151/Nickcarbonst/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/3.jpg) (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/Nickcarbonst/media/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/3.jpg.html)

(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy151/Nickcarbonst/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/4.jpg) (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/Nickcarbonst/media/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/4.jpg.html)

(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy151/Nickcarbonst/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/5.jpg) (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/Nickcarbonst/media/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/5.jpg.html)

On 20/06/2014 we were able to successfully read and write the software to our GTD and on 20/06/2014 development began  :smiley:

It has been a very intensive development cycle with many many man hours spent making adjustments and data logging to get everything just as we wanted it.

As with all of our developments the majority of the work was completed 'on the road' with final adjustments made on the Dyno.

This ethos ensures that what we offer is very 'driver focussed' as the majority of our adjustments are made based on the way the car drives and the data logging we complete in the real world!

We have found our approach gives us the absolute best in terms of drivability and power delivery.

(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy151/Nickcarbonst/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/6.jpg) (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/Nickcarbonst/media/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/6.jpg.html)

(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy151/Nickcarbonst/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/DYNO.jpg) (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/Nickcarbonst/media/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/DYNO.jpg.html)

Our own car has delivered a whopping 220Hp and 370Ft/lb (Dyno Dynamics) on completely factory standard hardware. Power delivery is very predictable and well mannered like all of our upgrades.... OEM+

We are delighted with the results on the dyno as well as on the road. The car makes and holds within a couple of % of peak power all the way from 3700rpm upto 4300rpm! And generates over 300Ft/lb all the way up to 3850rpm!

This upgrade is available for both Manual and DSG cars.





Step by step guide to the process:

Firslty, we very carefuly remove the Shear head security bolts that hold the protective cage around the ECU. This allows us to extract the ECU itself.

(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy151/Nickcarbonst/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/7.jpg) (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/Nickcarbonst/media/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/7.jpg.html)

(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy151/Nickcarbonst/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/8.jpg) (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/Nickcarbonst/media/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/8.jpg.html)

We take great pride in the physical side of our work as well as the software side of things and as such we make it extremely difficult to tell the car has been worked on by a third party. Please see a close-up picture of the metal cage and lack of any markings where the shear head bolts have been removed. These bolts are replaced with genuine VW items once the work has been completed.

(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy151/Nickcarbonst/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/9.jpg) (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/Nickcarbonst/media/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/9.jpg.html)

(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy151/Nickcarbonst/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/10.jpg) (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/Nickcarbonst/media/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/10.jpg.html)

Next we very carefully open the ECU casing giving us access to the circuit board inside.

(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy151/Nickcarbonst/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/11.jpg) (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/Nickcarbonst/media/Mk7%20GTD%20Review/11.jpg.html)

We then attach our specialist programming equipment to various points on the circuit board. This allows us firstly to bypass the checksum/RSA protection, then make a backup copy of the entire ECU software (all memory areas)

Once we have a full backup we can proceed to analyse the software and make a modified file for your car.

YOUR modified file is then written back into your ECU.

Everything is then re-assembled, including fitting genuine VW shear head security bolts so externally the car is identical to the way we found it.

Now the fun bit – The test drive  :laugh:

The Price for this service is £475.00 all inclusive

We can perform this upgrade as a discrete mobile service (non-liveried vans)

We allow a 3 hour slot to complete the work

Discounts available for forum members

As we are extremely busy during the summer months, please contact us directly for any questions/queries:

nick@carbonst.com or 07825 215 003

It's unlikely there will be any replies from us to comments on this thread and PM's are checked very infrequently!

We are not being rude – just busy  :wink:

All email or telephone enquiries will be dealt with at the earliest opportunity.

Thanks for looking – The team @ Carbon Chiptuning

Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: Rick101 on 12 August 2014, 02:08
Well this is popular :grin:
Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: Rhyso on 12 August 2014, 07:58
Quote from: Rick101 on 12 August 2014, 02:08
Well this is popular :grin:

Shame really as if you were to experience their work then no one would be interested in a tuning box  :whistle:

A remap will always give a nicer drive over a tuning box  :smiley:
Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: Mohsin on 12 August 2014, 15:01
Exactly - this is the sort of thing I would rather have. Something specific and unique to MY ECU..
Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: p3asa on 12 August 2014, 20:49
Like I said on the Mk7 main board, great company and certainly know their stuff  but I think the fact the maps are more detectable now due to the TD1 flags, more people will be turning to the tuning boxes.

Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: monkeyhanger on 13 August 2014, 08:11
The box does have the advantage of convenience - easy to remove for visits to the VW garage, easy to sell on if you switch from diesel to petrol on your next car, cheaper than a remap. The boxes out there are enabling far bigger power increases too.

For all those reasons I suspect most will go the way of the box.

Just look at the meticulous work that the tuning company had to go to just to apply the map - that map can't be undone without expertise or more labour charges should the car need returning to VW for warranty work or servicing. Commendable work but entirely inconvenient.
Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: topher on 13 August 2014, 11:58
Quote from: monkeyhanger on 13 August 2014, 08:11
Just look at the meticulous work that the tuning company had to go to just to apply the map - that map can't be undone without expertise or more labour charges should the car need returning to VW for warranty work or servicing. Commendable work but entirely inconvenient.

I was speaking to Nick at Carbon about that yesterday, and he confirmed as I thought.. once the initial work has been done the car can be flashed as normal through the OBD port.
Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: monkeyhanger on 13 August 2014, 13:31
Quote from: topher on 13 August 2014, 11:58


I was speaking to Nick at Carbon about that yesterday, and he confirmed as I thought.. once the initial work has been done the car can be flashed as normal through the OBD port.

That's a lot easier than my first impression, so you could have your original map flashed back and VW would be none the wiser about the work that had taken place? Then flash back after you've been to VW?
Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: Rhyso on 13 August 2014, 14:36
Quote from: monkeyhanger on 13 August 2014, 13:31
Quote from: topher on 13 August 2014, 11:58


I was speaking to Nick at Carbon about that yesterday, and he confirmed as I thought.. once the initial work has been done the car can be flashed as normal through the OBD port.

That's a lot easier than my first impression, so you could have your original map flashed back and VW would be none the wiser about the work that had taken place? Then flash back after you've been to VW?

That would depend on if it can bypass the flash counter

Equally, given how the ECU works, it will be interesting to see the power outputs of a car fitted with a tuning box after 12 months
Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: Andrew@DTUK on 13 August 2014, 15:15
Quote from: Rhyso on 13 August 2014, 14:36
Quote from: monkeyhanger on 13 August 2014, 13:31
Quote from: topher on 13 August 2014, 11:58


I was speaking to Nick at Carbon about that yesterday, and he confirmed as I thought.. once the initial work has been done the car can be flashed as normal through the OBD port.

That's a lot easier than my first impression, so you could have your original map flashed back and VW would be none the wiser about the work that had taken place? Then flash back after you've been to VW?

That would depend on if it can bypass the flash counter

Equally, given how the ECU works, it will be interesting to see the power outputs of a car fitted with a tuning box after 12 months

our Skoda is now 10 months old and is still producing similar figures on the same dyno even with double the ambient air temperature, so I'm not sure why you think customers should be worried after using a box for 12 months..
Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: monkeyhanger on 13 August 2014, 17:56
Quote from: Rhyso on 13 August 2014, 14:36

Equally, given how the ECU works, it will be interesting to see the power outputs of a car fitted with a tuning box after 12 months

Can you elaborate on what is meant by this? Are you saying the ECU will learn to "correct" the modified signals of the box in time, or something else to erode the output gains? Not sure how it would be "aware" of the modifications if there is no feedback from the rail and boost sensors.
Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: Carbon-Chiptuning on 13 August 2014, 18:46
Hey Folks,

Thought I’d better make a quick post to address some of the questions raised here......

@Monkeyhanger

“Just look at the meticulous work that the tuning company had to go to just to apply the map”

I’ll take that as a compliment – Thanks!  :grin:

 “The boxes out there are enabling far bigger power increases too”

Really??? I’m not sure what Dyno plots you are looking at!

Our development vehicle was tested on Dyno Dynamics (very well known to show low figures relative to most other Dynos) and made 220.7hp

The DTUK Octavia (I assume you are referring to DTUK as you have one of their boxes) was Dyno’d at Shark performance and made 220.8hp

Anyhow, I really don’t want this to turn into a DTUK vs CARBON thread as that is just futile.
 
They are very different products both having their own pros and cons and as such I don’t think should be compared directly.
 
There will always be people that will prefer to use a tuning box over a remap and likewise there will always be people that would prefer to have a remap over a tuning box!

It’s been this way for well over 10 years and I can’t see it changing anytime soon!

On another note....... hats off to Andrew @ DTUK! It seems you have a very nice product that will suit certain people down to the ground.

Looks like a properly developed product that delivers very good feedback from everyone that has tried one, and in the event that support is needed it seems to be fast and efficient – a far cry from most of the other tuning box companies out there - keep up the good work.

Back on topic:
 
NOW AVAILABLE FROM CARBON CHIPTUNING

End user programming device that works with either Android or PC/windows.

This allows you to flash your Mk7 GTD (after the initial remap) via the diagnostic port with factory or modified software!
 
Also has some pretty cool functions for most models:

Read/clear fault codes

Data-logging

Real time gauges

Power tests

Please email nick@carbonst.com or call 07825 215003 with any questions

All the best,

Nick @ Carbon
Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: Rhyso on 13 August 2014, 20:53
Quote from: monkeyhanger on 13 August 2014, 17:56
Quote from: Rhyso on 13 August 2014, 14:36

Equally, given how the ECU works, it will be interesting to see the power outputs of a car fitted with a tuning box after 12 months

Can you elaborate on what is meant by this? Are you saying the ECU will learn to "correct" the modified signals of the box in time, or something else to erode the output gains? Not sure how it would be "aware" of the modifications if there is no feedback from the rail and boost sensors.

In short its a possibility. There have been instances in the past where over time the ECU has adapted and learned and as a result pegged the performance back. The boxes im talking about are not DTUK boxes so in response to Andrew @ DTUK I was merely stating what results might be shown from others and was not directed at him or DTUK  :smiley:

Each system has its own pros and cons. As the customer its YOU who decides what you would prefer  :smiley:

I know my preference :)
Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: monkeyhanger on 13 August 2014, 21:13
Quote from: Rhyso on 13 August 2014, 20:53
Quote from: monkeyhanger on 13 August 2014, 17:56
Quote from: Rhyso on 13 August 2014, 14:36

Equally, given how the ECU works, it will be interesting to see the power outputs of a car fitted with a tuning box after 12 months

Can you elaborate on what is meant by this? Are you saying the ECU will learn to "correct" the modified signals of the box in time, or something else to erode the output gains? Not sure how it would be "aware" of the modifications if there is no feedback from the rail and boost sensors.

In short its a possibility. There have been instances in the past where over time the ECU has adapted and learned and as a result pegged the performance back. The boxes im talking about are not DTUK boxes so in response to Andrew @ DTUK I was merely stating what results might be shown from others and was not directed at him or DTUK  :smiley:

Each system has its own pros and cons. As the customer its YOU who decides what you would prefer  :smiley:

I know my preference :)

Well there's something learnt today, I was genuinely asking for interest's sake - thanks.  :smiley:

I'm pretty happy with what I have bought, and even moreso when I got a free upgrade to a new box for offering opinion on real world driveability and mpg for some development maps DTUK gave me access to. Both the Carbon tuning and the DTUK products do seem to be well developed, far more so than a previous box from elsewhere I tried that had savage (not in a good way) power delivery, rough idling and a high mpg penalty.

I have read somewhere that some marques have feedback or detectability (recent Vauxhalls?) with tuning boxes for guarantee refusals, maybe these are the ones with the potential for learning an adaptability? (Skynet will be here before we know it  :grin:)

Sorry to hijack this thread with my genuine curiosity, i'll say no more.
Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: Rhyso on 13 August 2014, 21:26
And thats the idea of a forum; to have an open and honest discussion without having to resort to mud slinging etc  :whistle: :smiley:

You know with both companies, whichever route you choose, you are in safe hands :afro:
Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: Optimus prime on 27 June 2015, 22:27
Quote from: Carbon-Chiptuning on 13 August 2014, 18:46
Hey Folks,

Thought I’d better make a quick post to address some of the questions raised here......

@Monkeyhanger

“Just look at the meticulous work that the tuning company had to go to just to apply the map”

I’ll take that as a compliment – Thanks!  :grin:

 “The boxes out there are enabling far bigger power increases too”

Really??? I’m not sure what Dyno plots you are looking at!

Our development vehicle was tested on Dyno Dynamics (very well known to show low figures relative to most other Dynos) and made 220.7hp

The DTUK Octavia (I assume you are referring to DTUK as you have one of their boxes) was Dyno’d at Shark performance and made 220.8hp

Anyhow, I really don’t want this to turn into a DTUK vs CARBON thread as that is just futile.
 
They are very different products both having their own pros and cons and as such I don’t think should be compared directly.
 
There will always be people that will prefer to use a tuning box over a remap and likewise there will always be people that would prefer to have a remap over a tuning box!

It’s been this way for well over 10 years and I can’t see it changing anytime soon!

On another note....... hats off to Andrew @ DTUK! It seems you have a very nice product that will suit certain people down to the ground.

Looks like a properly developed product that delivers very good feedback from everyone that has tried one, and in the event that support is needed it seems to be fast and efficient – a far cry from most of the other tuning box companies out there - keep up the good work.

Back on topic:
 
NOW AVAILABLE FROM CARBON CHIPTUNING

End user programming device that works with either Android or PC/windows.

This allows you to flash your Mk7 GTD (after the initial remap) via the diagnostic port with factory or modified software!
 
Also has some pretty cool functions for most models:

Read/clear fault codes

Data-logging

Real time gauges

Power tests

Please email nick@carbonst.com or call 07825 215003 with any questions

All the best,

Nick @ Carbon


Just what I am after I no its an old thread but if you could reply with a price for the obd mapping I would be grateful

Thanks
Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: mcmaddy on 27 June 2015, 23:02
Email nick or telephone him. He's a top top fella.
Title: Re: Mk7 GTD ECU Remap from Carbon Chiptuning! Case Study with Dyno Dynamics plot :-)
Post by: Rhyso on 28 June 2015, 08:54
Quote from: mcmaddy on 27 June 2015, 23:02
Email nick or telephone him. He's a top top fella.

^^^this will get you the quckest response :afro:

Nick likes a chat  :grin: