GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: xAntiVenxm on 31 May 2014, 20:42
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Hi,
been a while since a posted on here - started my golf rebuild this spring and after hours of reading through the maintenance section and replacing parts i STILL cannot get it to run properly..
Put the key in, turn it, starter motor goes and the first spark happens and then the engine immediately cuts out and you can hear everything wind down to a stop..
BUT if you put your foot on the accelerator and press down a bit, she fires up like nothing is wrong!
soon as you pull your foot off, she sputters to a stop.
So far I have replaced...
1) ECU Relay (#30)
2) Fuel pump relay (#197)
3) Vacuum hose (main one that goes from top of throttle body through a grommet and onto a box I think might be the ECU but i'm not sure.. its right in the middle under the plastic panel held in by rubbery plugs below windscreen)
4) Spark plugs all new
5) Dizzy checked for corrossion.. none found, looks very very new
6) Crank angle sensor replaced as old one was dead
Scan it with vag-com.... nothing. fault codes were cleared just in case, and re-scanned.. still nothing.
I am totally out of ideas.
Any suggestions?
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Immobliser problem. Is the chip in the key for the immobliser
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uhhhh...
the key's VW logo is a button.. which makes a light go on lol not sure what the chip in the key looks like? have a 2nd key with no button, just solid
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both keys have a little black bar looking thing, assume thats the chip?
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Clean the throttle body
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As bush has said clean throttle body, then turn ignition on for 30-60 seconds DONT TOUCH THE ACCELERATION PEDAL AT ALL!!! You should hear clicking or whirring noise. Turn it back off. Then turn ignition back on and start the car.
what reg is the car and is the engine the same engine it has always had to a replacement engine?
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Ok, will give the throttle body a clean tomorrow and try starting it as you said.
its P reg, I believe it's the same engine it's always had - previous owners kept lots of logs and reciepts but never saw an engine replacement one. it seems to have been taken care of up until the very last owner who did nothing for a year!
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Don't think it's immo issue, you can't keep engine running with throttle then... it would just cut out after starting first time without chip being recognised, run for 2-3 secs then cut out and not fire up at all afterwards (it would crank thou).
If cleaning throttle doesn't help you could check with vcds if throttle potentiometer works correctly.
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True, I have kept it running a long time using throttle, enough to get it from the rear of my flat to the drive round the other side to work on it.
I'm new to vcds, I've got a registered version but testing the engine 01 doesn't throw any faults.
I'm new to vcds so anything besides the auto scan or individually scanning parts I will need a bit of a guide lol.
Running problems aside I can't wait to get everything sorted so she can be driven.. been off the road since 2012! And I'd like to drive something other than a fiesta at the weekend haha
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As bush has said clean throttle body, then turn ignition on for 30-60 seconds DONT TOUCH THE ACCELERATION PEDAL AT ALL!!! You should hear clicking or whirring noise. Turn it back off. Then turn ignition back on and start the car.
what reg is the car and is the engine the same engine it has always had to a replacement engine?
Right so cleaned throttle body.. checked the pins in the potentiometer and the other sensor behind it (not sure what it is) and they're clean.
gave the idle valve at the front of the block a clean for good measure, but it was pretty clean anyway..
Still the same problem :(
Turned the key for 60 seconds, it sparked first, then died, and the starter motor carried on whirring away..
every now and then the revs would go up a tiny bit as if it sparked up but only a few hundred revs then back to 0..
could start smelling petrol after i stopped at 60 seconds.. hoping its just because the pump is going but the fuel isn't being sparked?
tried it again, still no luck - exact same symptoms.
..any other ideas?? same thing, if i touch the accelerator a bit she fires up.
Just noticed today also that if i let it die, the oil light flashes.
read in the maintenance section that this is the crank sensor - that's already been changed :cry:
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is your air filter not blocked by any chance? try starting it without the airbox attached. if still same problem i would try a differnt thottle body.
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is your air filter not blocked by any chance? try starting it without the airbox attached. if still same problem i would try a differnt thottle body.
yeah air filter is clean, checked the induction hose and its not blocked, the air feed into the throttle body is also clean..
i didn't put the box back on when i started it just before, the induction hose was detached as i also wondered about the airflow..
whats the thinking, throttle body is somehow faulty? or potentiometer? or the other sensor on the back?
should i also replace the throttle cable mounting?
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take the big pipe off going to the throttle body and get someone to turn the ignition on and see if the throttle body flap moves, if not then try starting it without touching the pedal if it still dont move then do what you do to get it to start. if the flap doesnt move at all the best thing to do is replace the throttle body and do what i told you in my 1st post, turn ign on for 30-60 seconds DO NOT TOUCH THE PEDAL, turn the ign off, take key out, put key back in turn ign on wait for the lights to go out then start it. let us know what happens
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If you have vcds then you can use measuring blocks to look at various engine parameters - so go in there with igntion on but engine not running. Then look for the correct measuring block (for a mk3 pretty much all should be labelled) and see if the potentiometer (throttle) values goes up and down smoothly and if the idle switch is detected OK.
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Have you checked ALL the vacuum hoses? inc. the one up to the ecu? Making sure none of them are pinched
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Have you checked ALL the vacuum hoses? inc. the one up to the ecu? Making sure none of them are pinched
Yeah I replaced the long one that is on the back of the throttle body which goes through a rubber grommet to behind the engine back under the windscreen where there is a large box-shaped object (presuming it's the ECU) as it was cracked and dead - No change :(
Throttle body seems to be working fine as well..
When I get it to start up by hitting the pedal, it fires up no issues and goes all the way through the rev range.. and is sensitive enough to changes in accelerator position to make me believe the potentiometer is functioning properly..
NO error codes on VCDS still..
getting really annoying.
Thing I have noticed - Where the Accelerator cable connects to the throttle body, the plastic body it's connected to has what looks like a tiny button on the back.. Which I thought would make the engine go into idle when the accelerator is released, and the cable mount relaxes back to push it.
Seems as soon as that happens, the engine dies.
Could the Idle control valve at the front of the intake pipes be broken?
It looked totally clean when looking at it, no hoses blocked..
but I am seriously out of ideas :(
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Going to give it another thorough look over..
found a link on another website with common issues and it says the ECU can get locked, or disabled due to poor earth contacts.
being that my golf sat in a barn for a year before I got her, and then a garage after I did, I wouldn't be surprised if she has corroded contacts somewhere or everywhere.
There's a big black earth wire, wide and flat, coming down from behind the bonnet carpet.. it's been snapped off.
Anyone know if that's the ECU ground? might be my issue!
Will get home and connect it back up and see if that fixes it this evening.
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When I get it to start up by hitting the pedal, it fires up no issues and goes all the way through the rev range.. and is sensitive enough to changes in accelerator position to make me believe the potentiometer is functioning properly..
NO error codes on VCDS still..
Have you finally checked the measuring blocks in VCDS??
Only because engine reacts to throttle does not mean potentiometer is working correctly in all positions.
The potentiometer has a conductive layer and a brush.... now they are permanently mating, so you have friction and wear. Over time the conductive layer (often carbon) will wear away and leave bald patches, which result in open loop.... The ECU may not pick this up on a fault (Mk3 OBD is very basic) hence check measuring blocks and see if the response from potentiometer is OK. GND fault is not very likely if it communicates with VCDS OK.
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When I get it to start up by hitting the pedal, it fires up no issues and goes all the way through the rev range.. and is sensitive enough to changes in accelerator position to make me believe the potentiometer is functioning properly..
NO error codes on VCDS still..
Have you finally checked the measuring blocks in VCDS??
Only because engine reacts to throttle does not mean potentiometer is working correctly in all positions.
The potentiometer has a conductive layer and a brush.... now they are permanently mating, so you have friction and wear. Over time the conductive layer (often carbon) will wear away and leave bald patches, which result in open loop.... The ECU may not pick this up on a fault (Mk3 OBD is very basic) hence check measuring blocks and see if the response from potentiometer is OK. GND fault is not very likely if it communicates with VCDS OK.
do you have any sort of guide on how to use vcds to test this??
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That strap you mention is only the bonnet earth mine snapped years ago and has never caused any issues.
You could try disconnecting the battery, which will reset the ecu, leave it off for at least 5 minutes with both terminals off and away.
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do you have any sort of guide on how to use vcds to test this??
Simply go into ECU (01) - then into measuring blocks and click your way up... there is labels for most things on mk3... just look for throttle angle or throttle position or something similar.
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Got it it's labelled t.b. angle for throttle body :)
It's working perfectly. Measures the angles in degrees from 0 all the way to 73 degrees when it's crushed down..
And yeah I tried the bonnet earth no dice haha.
Thanks for the suggestions, more would be appreciated!!
Did the turning on, leaving it on, key out key in, on, start.
Nothing still :( only if I hit the peddle.
I am starting to wonder if the alarm system installed is faulty, causing the immobiliser to malfunction?
It's one of the fancy ones that stop hijacking etc so can control the immobilisers.
Other than that I really am at a loss..
If I can't figure it out she will have to be sent to a garage to try and figure it out.. After having a clifford authorised retailer remove the alarm system..
My hopes of having her alive for the summer are quickly diminishing!!!
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Throttle body angle stays at 0 when trying to start. If I let the angle go below 5 degrees it shutters and then less than 3 it's out.
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Immobiliser no codes. Measuring blocks shows key status 1, engine start permitted 1, so okay I believe
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Have you tried do a reset of the immobiliser?
You say its an aftermarket one a Clifford???
You should have some kind of fob that you poke in somewhere
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Have you tried do a reset of the immobiliser?
You say its an aftermarket one a Clifford???
You should have some kind of fob that you poke in somewhere
Love it - how do I do that?? If it's what was suggested earlier of turning ignition on, leaving it, off, key out, key in, start, I've done that but otherwise I will try how you suggest?
I've reset ECU by disconnecting battery and reconnecting after about half hour.
Yeah It's a clifford concept 650 I think.. or 630, one of the 6-series.
No fob to insert, it's a remote which locks/unlocks and then you enter a code when you turn ignition on to unlock it.
I called a local clifford authorised installer/service center - guy was amazingly honest and said he can take a look but from the sounds of it he really doesn't believe it's the alarm, because if it was it wouldn't even let me turn the key..
He's right, cause a few times I forgot to enter my unlock code and turning the key wouldn't even let the starter motor start up!
So it seems the alarm ain't the problem.
But yes, how do you do an immobiliser reset??
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just seen an older thread where someone hit their icv with a hammer as it was stuck. gonna try that after another clean haha!!
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I think it could be a nackard throttle body. I have recently fitted a genuine gasket to it so its nice and clean. If u want i can take mine off and post it to you for 20+ postage. Before buying mine of me. Have you checked the wiring aint split going to it?
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Had a new symptom now!
Turned the ignition on.. got smoke coming from wires behind the steering wheel!
Thought faulty earth.. wiggled the wires a bit and it stopped smoking.
Wondering if this has anything to do with it!
This weekend going to do a full check over of all the wires and clean anything that looks awry.. There's a LOT of wires that look very dirty and the connector pins probably need a good scrub too.
The fact this car sat in a barn for a year could mean things have corroded.
Apparently it didn't have this issue when it was last driven.
My thoughts are seized idle valve or faulty connections somewhere.
If checking everything over gets me nowhere ill take you up on that throttle.
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Smoke behind the steering wheel is common just some dirt build up will cause this so just a small clean up of the contacts
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Fair enough!
will check over all the wiring this weekend.
also thinking of finding a new ISV to see if thats the issue also.
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Replace your ignition switch and come back and thank me :wink:
When mine was playing up would start then die every time but then when it would work it would cut out randomly but not very often. Got pissed off sent it to my local garage and they replaced the ignition switch - never a fault after that except it being an 8v :grin:
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Love you!
I am guessing I'm gonna need to send it to a garage.. being that its a 1997 and there's a chip in my Key which will be out of sync by replacing the ignition switch??
Unless there's an easy way to re-code it so it matches up with my current keys, which I will search the forums for now..
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Love you!
I am guessing I'm gonna need to send it to a garage.. being that its a 1997 and there's a chip in my Key which will be out of sync by replacing the ignition switch??
Unless there's an easy way to re-code it so it matches up with my current keys, which I will search the forums for now..
as a disclaimer it might not be the issue but it's worth looking into! :grin:
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Love you!
I am guessing I'm gonna need to send it to a garage.. being that its a 1997 and there's a chip in my Key which will be out of sync by replacing the ignition switch??
Unless there's an easy way to re-code it so it matches up with my current keys, which I will search the forums for now..
as a disclaimer it might not be the issue but it's worth looking into! :grin:
hahaha indeed :grin:
will get one for when i'm cleaning the contacts. it makes sense seeing as none of the other wires looked awry or had any issues.
my only concern is the keychip but my mechanic mate says i should be able to swap it over. can always call him and nag if i can't lol.
Euro parts sell a universal one.. which comes up when i entered my reg.. but it being called universal makes me not trust it.
will call all parts tomorrow, they're a bit more knowledgeable and trustworthy i find.
also need a trip to halfrauds for contact and carb cleaner.
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All parts have one! £30.. more than elsewhere but at least I know it's specific to the golf and can go pick it up (Y)
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Right so got the ignition switch which was £23 Inc vat dunno where I got 30 from haha!
Installed it by way of removing steering column.. Wasn't the issue. Damn!
Was totally worth doing however as the old one was corroded and seemed to be wet with something.. might have been old wd40 or something but the new one was much nicer.
On to the next thing!
Also picked up some contact cleaner for all the wiring which I'll go through tomorrow.
If cleaning up the wiring and isv doesn't help and I don't find any broken wires to blame then Sharki ill need you to start costing up posting your throttle body to me!
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No problem buddy. Hope you manage to sort it without splashing any monies at it. The throttle is from a AAG engine. Im not sure it will fit others unless you provide me with a part number so i can match it up for you.
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Ahh ok mine is an ABF I think? Still getting familiar with the different engine codes. Will try to find the part number on the throttle tomorrow.
I've also found that the same ISV part number matches different engines.. except for the last letter at the end of the VAG number code.. There's both C and D. Not sure on the difference or if either works lol.
I'm surprised VW made so many different versions.. car companies usually recycle as much as possible to save money lol
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Lols sounds right about them recycling. Get me a pic of the throttle please.
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Right I can find no wiring cracked or broken at all!! All vacuum hoses look absolutely fine..
Isv has been totally bathed in carb cleaner and all the sensors I could get to had the contacts cleaned with contact clean.
Wondering if it's the little switch on the throttle body where the accelerator cable connects.. when the cable is slacked the plastic it clamps to clicks the switch.. which I believe sends a signal for the engine to idle..
So I am guessing it's either the isv or that switch not working. If cleaning doesn't sort it will try replacements for those..
Although other suggestions welcome!!!
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Take the isv off and put 12v to one pin and earth to the other pin,look into it as you switch it on and off repeatedly,it should click and you should see movement inside,if it's stuck stick a thin screwdriver up it and push the valve
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Take the isv off and put 12v to one pin and earth to the other pin,look into it as you switch it on and off repeatedly,it should click and you should see movement inside,if it's stuck stick a thin screwdriver up it and push the valve
HERO!!! IT WORKED!! SHE LIVES!!!!!! :D
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Take the isv off and put 12v to one pin and earth to the other pin,look into it as you switch it on and off repeatedly,it should click and you should see movement inside,if it's stuck stick a thin screwdriver up it and push the valve
HERO!!! IT WORKED!! SHE LIVES!!!!!! :D
YAYYYYY!!! lol
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Take the isv off and put 12v to one pin and earth to the other pin,look into it as you switch it on and off repeatedly,it should click and you should see movement inside,if it's stuck stick a thin screwdriver up it and push the valve
HERO!!! IT WORKED!! SHE LIVES!!!!!! :D
YAYYYYY!!! lol
Hahaha XD
Dunno what happened I posted a long reply but it disappeared lol ah well
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Good news!
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Good news!
thanks for idea mate :grin:
started her again still running! Still needs a good whack on the idle valve to free it so it doesnt run rough though..
reckon some wd40 in there would help?? trying to not have to replace it.. it's obviously a bit stuck in there, needs lubricating it seems or could just need to be replaced?
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Soak it in penertrating fluid and keep working it,should come good,they are quite pricey to buy new
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Soak it in penertrating fluid and keep working it,should come good,they are quite pricey to buy new
did just that :) WD40 bath and its perfect.
running is still a bit odd. cant put my finger on it, just sort of rumbles every now and then.. but it may just be the engine, i'm too used to my ford tbh.
cam belt probably needs changing and timing checked, seeing as she sat still for so long i wouldn't be surprised if the belt has started to go stiff, and is stretched in the position it sat in for years.
finally got underneath her properly..
lotta sill rust.. :( doesn't look very crumbly though, so i don't think should be more than an advisory on MOT.
drivers side CV boot is split and needs changing..
both ball joints are rotted.
also it looks like some monkey attacked the locking wheel nuts with a windy gun :angry: spent today chiseling the collars off em and smashing a socket onto em.
3 down one to go..
all the wheel nuts are ruined, either corroded as hell or they were crossthreaded at some point - but the absolute novice who had it before me had those terrible halfrauds £10 wheel spacers on em behind the wheels.
was lucky not to snap a bolt, with how short they were inside the hub!!
must've been typical chavvy kid, thinking of the looks but not thinking of getting extra long wheel nuts for safety!
straight in the bin :drool:
and now sleep.. arms ache :laugh: