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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: mush on 12 April 2014, 09:20
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hi all
so im pretty much sure my valve seals are gone which is the cause of blue smoke,
so test driving her it only happens off throttle and going down a slight hill after getting up to speed
and letting off i get to about 20mph and puff the magic dragon out the back, speed back up again and nothing.
all breathers are clear anything else to check on symptoms ?
questions are
1. if i do this job myself is it defo head removal?
2. if i take it to a shop what price im i looking at
3. ok to drive if i keep it toped up with oil
4. WHY HAS THIS HAPPENED AFTER IVE THROWN £800 AT IT RECENTLY :sick:
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Maybe try a thicker oil.
We use 10w60 in bmw's :wink:
The vr6 gets up to similar temps. What oil is in it now?
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Do a compression test first
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If that's what it is Its quite an involving job to do properly, I would get a proper shop to refurb the valve guides etc if your not equipped.
False economy just doing the seals, at least do the valve assembly and guides.
I always buy a second hand head(s) and build it up off the car over a few months (quite expensive) and get a full set of gaskets, bolts, oil, Anti, chains, belts, lifters etc etc and do it all at once properly.
I tried cheap years ago when I was messing with big V engines, a disaster financially if you have to go back and take it apart for wanked tensioner of blocked gallery and I never got my weekends :grin:
Dont rush into a head build if you are not sure, would be a b!tch if the rings were goofed :lipsrsealed:
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Maybe try a thicker oil.
We use 10w60 in bmw's :wink:
The vr6 gets up to similar temps. What oil is in it now?
i think its 10w40 semi syn - vw stuff
ive done a pressure test and blowing out 170 on 5 pots / 180 on last one
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If that's what it is Its quite an involving job to do properly, I would get a proper shop to refurb the valve guides etc if your not equipped.
False economy just doing the seals, at least do the valve assembly and guides.
I always buy a second hand head(s) and build it up off the car over a few months (quite expensive) and get a full set of gaskets, bolts, oil, Anti, chains, belts, lifters etc etc and do it all at once properly.
I tried cheap years ago when I was messing with big V engines, a disaster financially if you have to go back and take it apart for wanked tensioner of blocked gallery and I never got my weekends :grin:
Dont rush into a head build if you are not sure, would be a b!tch if the rings were goofed :lipsrsealed:
thanks bush after searching around and after your advice i was thinking of going down the exchange cylinder head thing <<< never done this before i take it you get all the internals minus gaskets?
do you reckon its alright to drive with shot valves? would it do the rings if i leave?
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The only problem you will have is emissions will be high and could fail mot. I doubt it will. Doubt it will as for the last decade vag engines have been terrible for oil consumption. And you will need to keep a eye on oil level.
I would go for a full syn 10w50. You engine is loose so wouldn't worry about the oil. Only tight engines need thin oil. Or even 15w 50
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If that's what it is Its quite an involving job to do properly, I would get a proper shop to refurb the valve guides etc if your not equipped.
False economy just doing the seals, at least do the valve assembly and guides.
I always buy a second hand head(s) and build it up off the car over a few months (quite expensive) and get a full set of gaskets, bolts, oil, Anti, chains, belts, lifters etc etc and do it all at once properly.
I tried cheap years ago when I was messing with big V engines, a disaster financially if you have to go back and take it apart for wanked tensioner of blocked gallery and I never got my weekends :grin:
Dont rush into a head build if you are not sure, would be a b!tch if the rings were goofed :lipsrsealed:
thanks bush after searching around and after your advice i was thinking of going down the exchange cylinder head thing <<< never done this before i take it you get all the internals minus gaskets?
do you reckon its alright to drive with shot valves? would it do the rings if i leave?
it aint going to help as it will soot up the bores and rings, but I have driven a KR on half a litre of oil a week for 2 years :grin:
DIY Exchange will end up costing you £500 min I reckon? then bolts, gaskets, oil....
or Scrappy/Ebay gamble £100 + bits £150?, again DIY.....
Unless your laying smoke like a dreadnought or losing power I would forget about it :smiley:
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Definately stem seals going by your symptons and yes a head off job to do properly. Common on VR6's. Valve guides will need measured and likely replaced as they where bad especially exhaust valve guides. Did you have an oiled up spark plug by any chance? Burning a little oil wont affect mot CO emmisions though. You may need to clean oxygen sensor every so often along with any affected plugs to keep it running good.
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If your going to do it then replace the valve guides at the same time or look for a s/h head and get it recon'd and then swap over.
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Thanks for all responses, I think I'm going down the exchange head option. c & r enterprises do head exchanges for 600 ported and polished upgraded internals, and only a few miles away. Just worried about bottom end if pistons are shot or rings. Can rings be changed without stripping down as well? Anyone used c and r enterprises of Nottingham for any head work?
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Why dont you try cheap option first, a thicker decent oil.
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Yeah a bit extreme for just a stem seal/guide problem considering (if you strip the head yourself) it's a relitively cheap fix. Your rings should be fine with your compression figures but no harm in a leak down test to confirm. Rings aren't bad to change with the head off. You'll need the sump off too though.
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Why dont you try cheap option first, a thicker decent oil.
im running it this week to work and back to see how much oil its burning. i'll report back all levels topped up, only time will tell, as for them bumper huggers stay away unless you want burnt oil up your chuffer
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Yeah a bit extreme for just a stem seal/guide problem considering (if you strip the head yourself) it's a relitively cheap fix. Your rings should be fine with your compression figures but no harm in a leak down test to confirm. Rings aren't bad to change with the head off. You'll need the sump off too though.
cheers jamo, ive contacted c and r on the head exchange, he has mentioned rings as well which is a fair cop but i really dont know until the heads removed. ive been told these engines are as stronge as you like but begining to wonder....
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They are very strong engines but high milers suffer with irregular bore wear especially nubmer 6. (Front right as you look at engine). Your symptoms describe what my last two vr's had. Worn stem seal due to excessivly worn exhaust valve guides. Common issue. Was never bad enough to fix them on mine. Basically once you close the throttle the oil is sucked past the seals due to the back pressure in the exhaust. Going down hills would make it appear worse. You could avoid it by leaving throttle slightly open or dipping the clutch instead of coasting in gear but not really practical. As for rings, if it's not smoking under load and there is no excessive blow back via the oil filler cap or breathers then they should be fine.
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so update for you all, ive topped oil off to exact mark on dip stick at the top of the dotted lines and its gone down by 2 of the lines, i understand from top to bottom is around a litre and its been over a 2 week peroid.
im still getting blue smoke on let off so i can rule out bad fuel now. i was thinking of getting another engine and doing a rebuild on this then swapping them out and running the old engine until the new rebuilt ones in.
just hope it holds on for now.
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so update for you all, ive topped oil off to exact mark on dip stick at the top of the dotted lines and its gone down by 2 of the lines, i understand from top to bottom is around a litre and its been over a 2 week peroid.
im still getting blue smoke on let off so i can rule out bad fuel now. i was thinking of getting another engine and doing a rebuild on this then swapping them out and running the old engine until the new rebuilt ones in.
just hope it holds on for now.
If the seals have gone you will be fine to drive it, just being aware that you will soot the engine up more and be pumping out more smoke as they wear out.
This could get you attention from vosa or the fuzz if your laying smoke, and fail an MOT when it becomes due.
If it is a ring/rings then they could go and your engine will fail forcing the issue.
Just start saving up, if you can do it get a complete engine and build it up on the bench with new chains and seals etc.
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They're pretty easy engines to work on thanks to them being old skoool :wink: Just got to get over the initial 'scared of ruining' phase :grin:
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so update for you all, ive topped oil off to exact mark on dip stick at the top of the dotted lines and its gone down by 2 of the lines, i understand from top to bottom is around a litre and its been over a 2 week peroid.
im still getting blue smoke on let off so i can rule out bad fuel now. i was thinking of getting another engine and doing a rebuild on this then swapping them out and running the old engine until the new rebuilt ones in.
just hope it holds on for now.
If the seals have gone you will be fine to drive it, just being aware that you will soot the engine up more and be pumping out more smoke as they wear out.
This could get you attention from vosa or the fuzz if your laying smoke, and fail an MOT when it becomes due.
If it is a ring/rings then they could go and your engine will fail forcing the issue.
Just start saving up, if you can do it get a complete engine and build it up on the bench with new chains and seals etc.
engine stand now purchased set up and ready :smiley:
im still looking round for a new engine theres loads of obd 2s coming up but no obd1s, my engines holding out but rattling from the chains now, i think the poor things at the end of its 130,000 miles life something going to blow soon i can feel it :lipsrsealed:
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End of life with 130k? Its had a hard life then.
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End of life with 130k? Its had a hard life then.
That was my thought, I gave my last one hell from 187 - 211k before I decided to do my head and shells ect