GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: ROO1 on 16 March 2014, 19:08
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As per title?
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Purely an educated guess from a 27 year history of modding VW's.
Admittedly much less modifying in recent years as I bought newer cars and wanted to preserve warranties.
BUT I'd hazard a guess that an ECU remapped car would produce identical figure with or without PP.
However a tuning box goes downstream and amplifies the boost etc post ECU so my theory is the PP would produce a 10bhp better figure...
Discuss!
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I asked a similar question a while back http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=252654.msg2321179#msg2321179
but there was no real specific answer.
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Are there any material / hardware changes to the cars? Intercooler / throttle body / injectors etc - or is it all ECU?
If it's just the ECU running a tad more (boost?) - then you would expect them to even out - but maybe this doesn't happen when "piggybacking". I think we need someone from Shark / DTUK to advise ..... :)
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i would expect the non PP to produce 10bhp less on the dyno than the PP equipped car.
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i would expect the non PP to produce 10bhp less on the dyno than the PP equipped car.
Why is that? :huh:
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If the car is Unitronic or APR flashed I think they will produce the same HP, since all the powertrain parts are the same.
But with a piggyback box like Shark or Speed Buster the PP will make more power.
BUT, in theory, you could get a hold of the PP ECU software and flash it over non PP cars. I see no reason why it wouldn't work?
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i would expect the non PP to produce 10bhp less on the dyno than the PP equipped car.
Why is that? :huh:
as the box simply amplifies whatever the starting figure is..
Its the same with the 130/160bhp Vxls, we can add 50/55bhp to both of them but can't take a 130 upto 210/215
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Well unless you can crank up the box to make up for the power but again, it would give even more power on the PP ECU LOL
i would expect the non PP to produce 10bhp less on the dyno than the PP equipped car.
Why is that? :huh:
as the box simply amplifies whatever the starting figure is..
Its the same with the 130/160bhp Vxls, we can add 50/55bhp to both of them but can't take a 130 upto 210/215
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The clues in the revs, have a look at when the peak powers are produced between the two...
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Yes the PP will always or at least in most cases be ahead of non PP cars after a remap as they are starting with more power already. That's why no 2 remap'd cars are identical (usually anyway). It all depends on what power you start with and PP cars are obviously already higher. It does seem strange as i'm pretty sure there's no hardware changes though and can see why you'd expect them to balance out.
Talking of which i'm getting a bit bored waiting for Revo, R-Tech and intact every ECU tuner out there to finally crack the encryption and get a real remap thrown on there. Have a horrible feeling that we'll never be able to get a hard coded remap done for the Mk7 :/
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One problem with that theory savage, mk2 cupra starts at 240 and stg1 to 300. Mk6 R and S3 start at a higher bhp but map to same... An exact hardware car will map to the same, if not it's not the same, maybe a different intercooler or airbox, but there will be a subtle difference.
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I thought the PP has a couple of minor different hardware components (the difference is not all ECU)
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As far as i'm aware the only hardware differences the PP GTI gains from the standard version is the Limited Slip Differential and bigger brakes (the same setup that's featured on the R) which of course would have no impact whatsoever on the engine performance. But I guess they must have done something to push an extra 10BHP out the engine as I doubt they've simply changed the software slightly, as you'd have thought they'd have increased it even more to attract even more people to spec the PP. Say 250BHP which would also bring it in to contend heavily with the Megane RS. As far as i'm aware the cylinder head and turbo are identical.
GrahamFR - Yes that's true. Then I guess we've answered our own question that the two cars are indeed not identical.
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Horsepower = Torque x 2 pi x rpm
They raised the RPM limit I think, hardware is the same, its something Audi does with its R/S cars
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7,000 rpm's I remember correctly :smiley:
Also the Performance Pack has a different ECU model.
Not only does it have 10ps more than the standard GTI, the torque delivery is slightly different too. :evil:
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we really need for a non PP to get to sharks dyno for some comparable runs
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Horsepower = Torque x 2 pi x rpm
They raised the RPM limit I think, hardware is the same, its something Audi does with its R/S cars
Yes but peak power is produced miles before you get anywhere near the rev limit! My car feels like it's dumping boost from 5,500rpm and the limiter is 6,700 to 7,200rpm (depending on which "mode" you're in). :nerd:
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It is dumping boost. The most probable theory is that the Wastegate lets out some rpessure at around 5000rpm as a safeguard against turbo damage. You can look at ALL graphs from dynoed GTI's and the power/torque go down at around 5000rpm even with a non cat bigger downpipe. So it's not a backpressure problem.
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Horsepower = Torque x 2 pi x rpm
They raised the RPM limit I think, hardware is the same, its something Audi does with its R/S cars
Yes but peak power is produced miles before you get anywhere near the rev limit! My car feels like it's dumping boost from 5,500rpm and the limiter is 6,700 to 7,200rpm (depending on which "mode" you're in). :nerd:
Ok i didnt mean the limit, but the torque is delivered at a higher rpm so the bhp is more, i dont know but its something to do with the revs thats all, no boost or hardware changes its only 10bhp afterall
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Has anyone actually put a PP vs non PP on the rolling road yet to prove there is a 10hp difference? I can honestly say i have noticed no difference on the road in terms of power between the two.
J
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and you wont likely considering the weight, the PP has 10bhp more so that its not slower than the non pp
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Has anyone actually put a PP vs non PP on the rolling road yet to prove there is a 10hp difference? I can honestly say i have noticed no difference on the road in terms of power between the two.
J
You won't notice the 10BHP difference at all unless you're pushing it literally to the limit around a track and even then you probably won't notice it at all as well, it's only 10BHP. The only reason I got the PP was for the Limited Slip Diff and improved brakes which i'm hoping will save me money when it comes to mapping the car as I should get away with the stock brakes at 300BHP as they are good enough for the R.
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I agree savage. I didn't get the PP for the extra 10hp. I got it for the big brakes and LSD :evil:
J