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General => General discussion => Topic started by: chris_chambers66 on 31 August 2005, 17:15

Title: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: chris_chambers66 on 31 August 2005, 17:15
Did anyone see Top Gear where they raced a MK4 GTi againest a MK2 GTi???


Guess who won :grin: MK2!!
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: Dizzie on 31 August 2005, 17:20
goes without saying lol.

Would liked to see the video.

I raced a mk4 4motion a while ago and left him standing. he pulled me over afterwards to find out what I was running :D
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: A2VR6 on 31 August 2005, 18:29
I wish we could get Top Gear in the US   :cry:
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: ...joe on 31 August 2005, 18:37
top gear rocks!!! dream job, i think i should bump that james may off and take his job!
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: Chris619 on 31 August 2005, 18:44
I wish we could get Top Gear in the US   :cry:

You can get Top Gear in the US, i was on holiday there last month and i saw it on TV then. They are a few seasons behind, but i carn't remember what channal it was on.
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: A2VR6 on 31 August 2005, 19:24
I wish we could get Top Gear in the US   :cry:


You can get Top Gear in the US, i was on holiday there last month and i saw it on TV then. They are a few seasons behind, but i carn't remember what channal it was on.

Yeah they have it once a week on the Discovery channel, but they are chopped up bits and pieces from different shows with TONS of commercials.

My new form of watching TG is to stream it through winamp. Works great for downtime at college.
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: kniterider on 31 August 2005, 20:00
thought the race you were on about was the mk1 vs mk4, over a 1/4 mile, they did a series of test old against new, not just vw's.... was good.. im sure it was a mk1 though :laugh:
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: chris_chambers66 on 31 August 2005, 21:05
yea im sure it was the mk2 it flew past the mk4  :grin:

just goes to show that old age doesn't show  :rolleyes:

yea they also did the rs escort cossie vs. rs focus = cossie won

nissan 350z vs. 300zx = 300zx won

toyota mr2 new vs. the really old one :huh: = new one won

and the peugeot 206 GTi 180 vs. Peugeot 205 GTi = 206 won

was good to watch
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: S11EPS on 31 August 2005, 21:45
It was actually a mk 1 that was used, and the race was over 1/5 of a mile, not the 1/4 mile - they only showed the first 1/5th, because by the quarter mile the mk4 was ahead.

If you care to do a search on here, the owner of the mk1 that was used actually posted this information.

Autocar did a test a couple of years ago when they took a Mk1 a Mk2 a Mk3 and a Mk4 to the track.

Mk1 came 4th
Mk2 came 3rd
Mk3 came 2nd
Mk4 came 1st

The older ones may not be as raw as the early ones chaps, but they prove to be a faster package. Lap times don't lie.....
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: DubFan on 01 September 2005, 12:46
Well with each new generation the top model of GTI gets more and more powerful.

Mk1 GTI - 1.8 8v - 118bhp
Mk2 GTI - 1.8 16v - 138bhp
Mk3 GTI - 2.0 16v - 150bhp (VR6 170bhp)
Mk4 GTI - 1.8 20v Turbo - 150-180bhp plus more with mods. (R32 V6 - 240bhp)
Mk5 GTI - 2.0 Turbo - 200bhp

So of course they newer ones will be quicker, even with the extra weight.

If you compare a fast Mk2 16v with a basic Mk3 8v or the bottom Mk4 GTI 2.0 then the Mk2 would more than likely beat them.

I'd much rather have a decent Mk2 16v than a Mk3 but if someone gave me a Mk4 1.8T then I wouldn't complain.

Oh and if you are outside of the UK, Top Gear is shown on BBC World (a mixture of factual and news programmes) satellite channel but not on BBC America (a cable channel in the USA showing british programmes).
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: BobbyT on 01 September 2005, 19:26
i have blown off mk3 and mk4 gti's!  :grin: not on top end but through the gears!
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: A2VR6 on 01 September 2005, 20:10
My Mark two VR6 beats an MK4 GTI 1.8T with a chip and exhaust. On both the 0-60 and top end (I have tested this).
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: S11EPS on 01 September 2005, 20:47
But you're using an engine out of a mk3......

Makes me laugh when Mk2 owners slag off anything later than their own model, yet they can't wait to stuff in the engines and interiors out of later and better cars, and then claim their car is a fantastic mk 2........

As far as I'm concerned, the minute you start transplanting engines/interiors from other cars, you loose your 'moral highground' to claim you're driving a superior car.
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: Mr Blue on 01 September 2005, 20:50
^His cars an MR2 with a ferarri bodykit you see :smiley:



 :grin: :laugh: comon tell them the truth
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: S11EPS on 01 September 2005, 20:53
They didn't make a replica kit for the 348, only the 355.....

But I especially commissioned one because I was sooooooooo desperate to drive an MR2........

I've been rumbled.....
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: Mr Blue on 01 September 2005, 20:58
 :grin:
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: Dizzie on 01 September 2005, 21:21
I'm planning on buying another mk2. a 16v this time. then major work lightening it.
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 04 September 2005, 11:12
some funny stuff said here :grin:

the only mk4's that would have a chance against a mk2 16v would be the 4motion ones, even the 170bhp v5 doesnt have a chance :grin: and the mk3 vr6 would only win in a straight line :wink: mk3 16v again no chance :tongue: anyone who wants to argue race me :cool:
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 04 September 2005, 11:27


As far as I'm concerned, the minute you start transplanting engines/interiors from other cars, you loose your 'moral highground' to claim you're driving a superior car.

not really because i consider the chassis as the car and engine etc are components of it. isnt putting a vr6 in a mk2 and making it quicker than the mk3 saying the mk2 chassis is better and look what would have happened if vw put a better engine in it?
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: mix on 04 September 2005, 11:37
:huh:

I think the argument is about factory standard cars, NOT ones that you have dropped and ubér silly enigine in......
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 04 September 2005, 11:44
standard or modified the mk1 and 2 piss all over the mk3 and 4 :tongue:
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: mix on 04 September 2005, 11:44
Well with each new generation the top model of GTI gets more and more powerful.

Mk1 GTI - 1.8 8v - 118bhp
Mk2 GTI - 1.8 16v - 138bhp
Mk3 GTI - 2.0 16v - 150bhp (VR6 170bhp)
Mk4 GTI - 1.8 20v Turbo - 150-180bhp plus more with mods. (R32 V6 - 240bhp)
Mk5 GTI - 2.0 Turbo - 200bhp

So of course they newer ones will be quicker, even with the extra weight.



What you got to take into account here is the power to weight ratio, there is no point saying "i got a 300bhp engine" then to add "it in my lorry front" :laugh:

you can have a powerful engine, but it useless in power terms if you have dropped it onto a heavy body.  
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 04 September 2005, 11:54
is that why your getting a beetle? :grin:
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: mix on 04 September 2005, 12:00
Nah, i just want old skool cool :cool:

And maybe a G60 on the side :wink:
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 04 September 2005, 12:06
hmm a g60'd bettle :cool: do it :grin:
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: mix on 04 September 2005, 12:11
:laugh:

Would be awesome, i'll get my grinder/welder/and TVRgolfd number :laugh:
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: DubFan on 05 September 2005, 16:34
Hmm, I heard that the Scooby WRX Turbo engines fit into Beetles nicely, that would be sweet. Power and retro cool.

Yes, power to weight ratio is very important, I was just using the engine power as an example of the changes made to the models over the years.
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: Mr Blue on 05 September 2005, 21:51
i would never put a jap engine in my german tank :tongue:
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: shaunj on 08 September 2005, 02:19
Autocar did a roadtest and mk2 came 3rd, mk3 came second?. Lap times don't lie?, how the f-----g hell would a mk3 8v, get round a track faster than a mk2 8v
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: S11EPS on 09 September 2005, 11:42
Mk3 was a 16v.

And unless you've driven on a cicruit whose corners get progressively faster as the lap wears on, you will need to use the brakes at some point. Fact is, Mk3 brakes are better, which allow you to brake later and harder (even moreso on Mk4) allowing you to carry more speed up to the bend. Brakes will affect your lap time as much as power, my friend.

Like I said, this was an independant test that was done. Its not heresay or opinion, its fact.
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: mix on 09 September 2005, 11:55
so basically, newer cars, with improved technology are better than the old ones....


man, gonna have to sto ptaking the piss out of mk3's now :laugh: :sad:
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: Overseer on 09 September 2005, 11:58
^ LOL :P


So what came #1?

yup.. as it stands straight off the line speed a mk2 16 vs mk3 16v doesnt have a lot in it.. once you're up to speed there's even less in it.  i'd really like to see 50 - 100 times or something of that sort.

Once yee barge is moving theres no stopping it! arrrrrrrrr

its all power -> weight.

anyone seen what happens if you u put a mk2 16v stock vs a mk2 with the bigger mk3 16v ABF engine in it?
i'd like to know the outcome :)

Fact is the mk2 16v is the 'fastest' NA 4 cyl GTI produced.. and the mk3 16v is the seond most.. in terms of 0-60 AND power to weight.. even though the mk3 has a more powerful engine. if only they'd made it a 2.2! ;)

i'd hazard a guess that a ABF powered mk2 16v would be a good match for a vr6 in 0-60 / power to weight terms.

Hmm, I heard that the Scooby WRX Turbo engines fit into Beetles nicely, that would be sweet. Power and retro cool.

yup and air cooled camper vans. i have friends who are so f*cked off with the engine in their bus that they' booked this conversion in for november at a cost of about 3,500...  about 3 times what they paid for the van in the first place!!   

with the van's they put the radiator side on in teh van and cut hole in the side to draw air over it.


The old favourite in the dub scene was a porsche 911 engine since its also aircooled.. and is seen as "keeping it real" as its aircooled AND has a porsche pedigree like the beetle.
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: mix on 09 September 2005, 12:01
is it just me thos seer, or putting a big lump in a van seem like it would handle very, very wierdly, as all the power and weight will be at he back of the bus :shocked: :huh:
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: Overseer on 09 September 2005, 12:04
yeah true.. not sure really.. they are heavy ass beasts anyways.. this one in particular has a full custom made (from MDF) kitchen in it.. which must weigh a tonne.. with that in the middle plus passengers at the other end i'd guess its probably evened out!

dude having it done is also a scary driver at the best of times.. i've only been in 4 'incidents' where cars have been crashed.. and 3 of those were with this guy driving.. LOL..

since he's getting it back in winter so we'll know pretty quickly whether there are any handling problems etc.. lol
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: mix on 09 September 2005, 12:06
lol, black ice anybody....

Yeah, suppose your right there, fully ladened it all balance out nicely.  Just never fancied going over 55mph in a camper, seems a bit sketchy to me :laugh:

Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: gibby on 09 September 2005, 13:10
Doing over 55mph in camper is not a problem, it's the going around bends at slight "speed" that's the worry when it gets all wobbly and jellyesk ! Mine's a mare and it's been lowered 75mm, on stock suspension they must be a nightmare.  :shocked:
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: kniterider on 09 September 2005, 15:06
^^^^^ yeah but feck me you can stop it on a pin head with them formula 1 brakes!!  :evil: :evil: :evil:
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: gibby on 09 September 2005, 15:07
^^^^^ yeah but feck me you can stop it on a pin head with them formula 1 brakes!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

Aye, there is that I suppose ! :grin:
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: Overseer on 10 September 2005, 23:28

hehe.. my boss had a bay panel van (camper without side windows) with full hydo's on it.. that was fun :D
Title: Re: MK2 Vs. MK4 On Top Gear
Post by: GTI EDITION (aka LTD) on 11 September 2005, 00:05
My older brother nearly bought a Helios Blue Oettinger ( Flat six ) T25 Caravelle syncro. Unfortunately he changed his mind when he found out how much it would cost to insure his 3 daughters to drive it. He said it when like sh!t off a shovel   :cool: ( which doesn't really surprise me  :rolleyes:)