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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: geedubyagraham on 26 February 2014, 11:43
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Ok ill try and explain this as best as I can, ive got an golf mk2 8v gti and was following rubjohnnys tuning guide, my question is the punch mark on the cam pully is that supposed to line up with the front or back of rocker cover (mine lines at back when tdc) and therefore everything else is out ie dizzy and flywheel marks. Also when ive looked at the dizzy cap and rotar they are badly pitted.
Car runs but is a bit sluggish. Any help appreciated
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I guess that you have No.1 piston at TDC on the exhaust stroke, rather than the compression stroke. Turn the crank another 360° and see if that makes everything better.
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(http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae214/weazgti/2010-12-22101351.jpg) (http://s973.photobucket.com/user/weazgti/media/2010-12-22101351.jpg.html)
Did you use these ones as well?
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as the picture above you will have those marks that line up to the top of the cambelt cover. however you also have a mark on a tooth on the inside edge of the wheel which should line up to the rocker cover. for the crank i would ignore everything on the crank pulley and only look at the flywheel markings.
i also found in my that my intermediate sprocket marking was well out and had to be ignored.
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Yes I have those markings but im confused as to weather the inside mark on cam wheel should line up at the front or rear of the rocker? Ill try turning 360 degrees again tomorrow as im not sure if it was on compression or exhaust stroke.
Thanks for the replys so far
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Front. Which is half a cam rev from where you are, which is one crank rev.
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Ok so tomorrow ill turn it to front and report my findings thanks again
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if you didnt know for every 360 degree on the crank its only 180 on the cam. so if you did 360 on the crank then the cam position should line jup with the front. once you have this then go and look at the flywheel marking to see if it has lined up also.
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Yeah I get it now thanks im being durrrr :tongue: today. Thanks
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Also the cam belt sits right on the outer edge of the cam wheel? Doest look right to me as if it might work its way off, I thought it would be in the centre?
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I don't want to worry you but looking at the belt to the right of the picture it doesn't look in great nick. Do you know when it was last changed? Last thing anyone wants is the belt to go. You will be removing the belt from the cam pulley if the timing is out. When you do flip it upside down to face the teeth towards you, then give it a bend. Look for any signs of excessive wear where a tooth meets the belt.
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The pic was mine from years ago. Abused that engine for years because it was ruined anyway.
I checked mine cos it felt flat compared to another 8v and as you can see in the pic it was out by a few teeth with everything else timed up. Car ran fine for months just flat until I re did it.
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(http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae214/weazgti/2010-12-21120113.jpg) (http://s973.photobucket.com/user/weazgti/media/2010-12-21120113.jpg.html)
This one should be edge of head at the front with other side of pulley lining up with the O T marks
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Did a bit more investigating today, got the cam sproket lined up as discussed above and checked dizzy which was lined up correct but when I connected the timing light and ran the car (with blue temp sensor disconnected) the big diamond mark was no where to be seen just a tipex mark that someone has put on them selves, the big diamond mark is there just isnt lined up with the big arrow, hope that makes sense
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if you are doing the timing as per the book you shouldn't see the diamond shaped mark but a mark that's about 12mm round from it.
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if you are doing the timing as per the book you shouldn't see the diamond shaped mark but a mark that's about 12mm round
from it.
right now youve confused me because according to rubjohnny guide the big diamond mark is lined up as thats 6 btdc???
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Got to have the revs up as well 2500rpm (?) if I recall.
The big for ignition timing little one for static timing
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Also helps to hand crank the engine until you find the dot just past the diamond and then mark it yourself. If there is white tipex there already, use another colour on the dot.
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The tippex is halfway round the fly wheel from the diamond and dot mark! Wtf
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Can you not scratch the old mark off with something?
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The problem is the tippex mark is what someone has put on and set the timing on that, the proper mark is miles out so Im not sure how the car even runs! Theres a rabbit off somewhere I think
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Time to get the camera out and post some pics up
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Keep in mind some people choose to ignore timing marks and make their own. He may have placed that there and another random mark on the cam sprocket when changing a belt and tried to put everything back where it was without trying to mess with the timing. Best way to check is to remove the spark plug from cylinder 1 (the one closest to the cam sprocket) and hand crank the engine until the flywheel dot is lined up. Once you have this then go and look what position the piston is in cylinder 1. You want this piston to be right at the top of travel (tdc). (Whatever you do don't use the rubber end of a pencil to see if it's at the top as it may snap off and require you to take the head off to retrieve it, you would have to be an idiot to do something like that :embarrassed: )
Side note: you should remove all spark plugs before hand cranking as otherwise you are trying to crank again the compression.
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maybe the ignition timing was set of ht lead 2 or 3 if the tipex mark is 180 out to the tdc mark. I had a look at mine earlier and there is a tipex line about 12mm from the dot on the flywheel.(tipex line to front of car)
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Go old skool use a bit of solider stick it down the plug hole and turn crank that will mark the solider when it hits TDC! :wink:
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Keep in mind some people choose to ignore timing marks and make their own. He may have placed that there and another random mark on the cam sprocket when changing a belt and tried to put everything back where it was without trying to mess with the timing. Best way to check is to remove the spark plug from cylinder 1 (the one closest to the cam sprocket) and hand crank the engine until the flywheel dot is lined up. Once you have this then go and look what position the piston is in cylinder 1. You want this piston to be right at the top of travel (tdc). (Whatever you do don't use the rubber end of a pencil to see if it's at the top as it may snap off and require you to take the head off to retrieve it, you would have to be an idiot to do something like that :embarrassed: )
Side note: you should remove all spark plugs before hand cranking as otherwise you are trying to crank again the compression.
This was my next plan, I think ill line everything up tomorrow ie cam wheel and see if cylinder 1 is at tdc, if its not tdc I suppose itll be a whole timing set up from scratch? And thanks for the pencil advice ill stick to the bit of dowl ive got haha
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The pencil is something I did last year haha, now I use a massive cable tie so there is no chance of it breaking.
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Take bung out of gearbox and set flywheel to tdc mark check cam mark on sprocket and check where rotor arm is in relation to small mark on the dizzy if cam mark is in the right place and rotar arm is there or there abouts get your timing light and adjust dizzy to 6 btdc mark on flywheel whilst reving engine 2500. I found it best to set cam with OT mark on small plastic cam cover
Hope this helps
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Take bung out of gearbox and set flywheel to tdc mark check cam mark on sprocket and check where rotor arm is in relation to small mark on the dizzy if cam mark is in the right place and rotar arm is there or there abouts get your timing light and adjust dizzy to 6 btdc mark on flywheel whilst reving engine 2500. I found it best to set cam with OT mark on small plastic cam cover
Hope this helps
Cheers but as I mentioned on previous posts ive done that, the OT mark lines up as does the dizzy but fly wheel mark cant be seen when I do this.
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Pretty sure it's possible to put flywheel on so marks are out
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Pretty sure it's possible to put flywheel on so marks are out
that would be just my luck!!!
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More investigating tomorrow cos I didnt have time today, its starting to get on my nerves as idle isnt great its under powered using too much fuel and smoking like a biatch out the exhaust! The list goes on! Ill report my findings tomorrow
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Ok so my findings so far are....cam wheel lined up and dizzy lines up accordingly with no1 piston at tdc but fly wheel marking well out so I can only assume the fly wheel is on wrong??? On the plus side found the oil breather on top of rocker cover is broken away and completely bloked with oil so think this could be a source of some of my problems?
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Defiantly. You can time the car completely without any marks. So this is your last call then if you thing it's all out. Find tdc on cylinder 1 and leave (there is a little cut out on the crank pulley which might be in place and could be used in the future), now remove rocker cover and have a look at the cam shaft. You want the cams to be sitting like this / \ over cylinder one. With the belt off if you turn the cam it should fall into position (while you can see its correct go ahead and check the cam sprocket marks). Now just the dizzy to sort. Dizzy cap off and look where there marks are, the rotor arm should aim towards the 6 degree mark, if not with the belt removed just twist the rotor by arm till it lines up. Now try and get the belt on without moving anything. This is also the time to make your own distinct flywheel mark and do the dynamic timing with a timing gun.
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Ok brilliant ill try and give that a bash tomorrow. Much appreciated to all of you for your help.
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I took the cam cover off yesterday but im not sure what you mean about /\. Is there anyone local that could give me a hand? Please
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If you are looking down the cam it's the position of the lobes. You don't want either inlet or exhaust fully open or closed. So from above it would look like -'-,- sort of thing for cylinder one . Does that make more sense?
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Ah right I see, if my cam markings and all valves are shut do I still need to take the belt off while I adjust the dizzy?
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All you need is cylinder 1 at tdc and the cam in the position described. Then have a look at the dizzy with the cap off. If it's slightly off the dizzy can be spun round slightly and the belt can stay on.
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Ok cheers ill give it a bash in the morning :whistle:
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Set up timing this morning as discussed and it runs a little better but I still feel it is over fueling slightly and holding back slightly, im not happy about the fly wheel being on wrong even if its not affecting the running its one of those things that niggle at me :embarrassed:
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It could also be the mix, take it to a friendly mot garage and get the mix set just right, my garage does this for free. If it's lumpy it might not just be the timing, check everything else that are normal culprits aswell before you give up.
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Yeah I was thinking that today and im also thinking air getting in some where, I had a quick look today but couldnt see anything obvious so sprayed wd40 around a few places and found nothing, is there any common places on gti 8v?
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same problem this week with the flywheel on wrong. You can fit them on wrong but they should match up to dowels but easily forgotten about. Pain in the A**
Just yesterday I got piston 1 at the highest point and marked that as TDC on the flywheel. This is in the centre of the hole.
then 6 deg before tdc now approx. 18mm-ish ahead of the TDC mark.
I hate timing digi's. They never run right first time.
The hesitation you have is a badly setup engine. Needs more tuning!
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Yeah im gonna get it set up properly soon and tuned anyone offering?? :grin:
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Ring around and speak to the tuners. If they don't know what they're talking about find someone else. Before I learnt to tune my car I called a mobile mechanic, guy turned up without a timing gun and didn't have a clue what he was doing.