GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: GiT1984 on 08 February 2014, 22:51
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I was perusing the brochure in anticipation of getting my new car and I noticed the weights of the cars and what makes them up - so I thought I would point out some things that surprised me ....
The "official" EU weights include a 68kg driver, 7kg of luggage and a 90% full tank of fuel (45kg) - adding 120kg to the "base weights" of the car!
So the 3dr Manual non PP is the lightest ......
DSG +19kg
Performance Pack +32kg
5 door +30kg
So my 5dr DSG PP is 81kg heavier than the base 3dr at an official 1432kg ..... much more so with me in it! :( Of course it looks much better at a "dry" and unladen weight of 1312kg ..... :laugh:
3dr Non PP Manual is officially 1351kg
3dr Non PP DSG is officially 1370kg
3dr PP Manual is officially 1382 kg
3dr PP DSG is 1402kg
Yikes no wonder there isn't a huge acceleration difference between PP and non PP equipped cars .... :lipsrsealed:
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lol yes interesting info, I didn't know about the EU rules, wonder if they applied mid 80's my Mk2 gti back then was in the 900kg range from memory.
So you've got the heaviest and I've got the lightest! Despite the extra passenger you've effectively got in there I think my 6'5" and 100kg negates some of the advantage :)
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Why does the PP weigh 32kg more? This is mainly the diff?
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And bigger brakes
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But let's not forget the PP's 10bhp advantage along with the different ECU mapping. This in itself would write off the additional weight when it comes to performance figures. :)
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But let's not forget the PP's 10bhp advantage along with the different ECU mapping. This in itself would write off the additional weight when it comes to performance figures. :)
does it write if off? depends what you're precisely comparing.
using the weights supplied by Git1984
his 5dr pp dsg 1432kg @ 227bhp is 159bhp per ton
a 3dr man 1351kg @ 217bhp is 161bhp per ton
peak power basically only relevant at peak power, torque gives acceleration at lower rpm so as pp and none pp engine have the same torque im struggling to see an advantage, but i can see a disadvantage.
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I think you'll find that the ECU maps differ between both cars and that it's not just a case of 10bhp increase. :)
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I think you'll find that the ECU maps differ between both cars and that it's not just a case of 10bhp increase. :)
only power and torque give forward motion though? if the map gave it more 'go' I assume that's what's being suggested on top of the known 10bhp, it would have to be shown in one or both figs, just physics, extra go cant come from nowhere! do you have anything to support it? i don't recall reading anything along those lines.
thanks
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The following are official specifications, as you can see, the max power on the GTI PP starts at 4700rpms vs 4500rpms but the PP car has 350nm torque for an extra 200rpms.
Standard GTI
220ps between 4500-6200rpms
350nm between 1500-4400rpms
Performance Pack GTI
230ps between 4700-6200rpms
350nm between 1500-4600rpms
:)
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The following are official specifications, as you can see, the max power on the GTI PP starts at 4700rpms vs 4500rpms but the PP car has 350nm torque for an extra 200rpms.
Standard GTI
220ps between 4500-6200rpms
350nm between 1500-4400rpms
Performance Pack GTI
230ps between 4700-6200rpms
350nm between 1500-4600rpms
:)
Interesting info thanks
pp more power or course, but you need to rev it. For me torque still the same in practical terms as the only difference is high rpm when actual revvy power is the dominate force.
Weights of course a biggie you need a lot if power to overcome that.
Revvy acceleration redline up changes no doubt the pp has more power but the clock shoes only a tiny difference .1s (wonder if performance figs are done on 3dr cars?)
Be interesting to see a vid where roll on acceleration, lowish speed tallish gear to test weight v torque
Either way round tiny differences wouldn't probably be felt by us the fact remains they are all b quick!
Thanks
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Whichever GTI somebody buys, they won't be dissapointed :)
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Whichever GTI somebody buys, they won't be disappointed :)
not got to grips with mine yet, (only a week) couple of times give it a bit, its ridiculous! revved it a bit 3/4 throttle poston in 3rd maybe to 5k then into 4th then to the carpet, b stunning torque pick up:)
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Interesting comments gents!
What really surprised me was how much heavier the PP'd GTi is ..... and given that neither the brakes nor the callipers look that much bigger - you've got to imagine that the diff, the pump & ECU weigh quite a lot!
I had a couple of VR6's back in the day and I seem to remember them weighing 1,150kg (and one of mine had 230bhp and 245lb/ft of torque to boot); so I'm really keen to see if the higher torque of the GTi (rumoured to actually be more like 280lb/ft) makes it feel any quicker ... :rolleyes:
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Interesting comments gents!
What really surprised me was how much heavier the PP'd GTi is ..... and given that neither the brakes nor the callipers look that much bigger - you've got to imagine that the diff, the pump & ECU weigh quite a lot!
I had a couple of VR6's back in the day and I seem to remember them weighing 1,150kg (and one of mine had 230bhp and 245lb/ft of torque to boot); so I'm really keen to see if the higher torque of the GTi (rumoured to actually be more like 280lb/ft) makes it feel any quicker ... :rolleyes:
I don't think you will be disappointed, I strongly feel comparing to other decent motors like mates Boxster nother ones 911 the grunt of the golf is an equal to anything, 50-70 in 3rd just superb. I think the power/Torque figs are very conservative.
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I don't think you will be disappointed, I strongly feel comparing to other decent motors like mates Boxster nother ones 911 the grunt of the golf is an equal to anything, 50-70 in 3rd just superb. I think the power/Torque figs are very conservative.
You're kidding right..?
Golf GTI (PP or not) is not in the same league as a modern (last 15 years) 911... For a PP - 168 bhp/tonne vs 214 (235 with the X50 pack, equivalent of the PP) bhp/tonne - 996 Carrera 4S gives a good indication of the gap, the 4S is the heaviest of the Carreras...
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Interesting comments gents!
What really surprised me was how much heavier the PP'd GTi is ..... and given that neither the brakes nor the callipers look that much bigger - you've got to imagine that the diff, the pump & ECU weigh quite a lot!
I had a couple of VR6's back in the day and I seem to remember them weighing 1,150kg (and one of mine had 230bhp and 245lb/ft of torque to boot); so I'm really keen to see if the higher torque of the GTi (rumoured to actually be more like 280lb/ft) makes it feel any quicker ... :rolleyes:
I don't think you will be disappointed, I strongly feel comparing to other decent motors like mates Boxster nother ones 911 the grunt of the golf is an equal to anything, 50-70 in 3rd just superb. I think the power/Torque figs are very conservative.
Hell - if it's that fast I'll be more than ecstatic!
I've had a couple of Boxster S's, a 997 C2S, a 997 GT3 and I've got a current shape Boxster S in the drive (bog standard but with a dyno certified 335bhp) - so the Golf will have some serious competition - but it's my daily driver - not my toy! :D
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Hell - if it's that fast I'll be more than ecstatic!
I've had a couple of Boxster S's, a 997 C2S, a 997 GT3 and I've got a current shape Boxster S in the drive (bog standard but with a dyno certified 335bhp) - so the Golf will have some serious competition - but it's my daily driver - not my toy! :D
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The mid range punch is great, another recent post in here compares power to weights, mid range urge though is torque over weight (and drag & frictional loss)
That said take a look at this vid which is max revs acceleration thus the power to weight. Stop it at 100k & 160k displayed on the BMW and then take a look at the golfs digital readout.
You can see how well the golf does against a car with circa 100bhp more.
Not as clear cut as mere figs suggest!
http://youtu.be/i9AWoOgLmBw
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The mid range punch is great, another recent post in here compares power to weights, mid range urge though is torque over weight (and drag & frictional loss)
That said take a look at this vid which is max revs acceleration thus the power to weight. Stop it at 100k & 160k displayed on the BMW and then take a look at the golfs digital readout.
You can see how well the golf does against a car with circa 100bhp more.
Not as clear cut as mere figs suggest!
http://youtu.be/i9AWoOgLmBw
OK I think you're right on that video!
A GTi 3 door DSG weighs 1,370kg and has 220bhp - giving a power to weight ratio of 160.6 bhp/ton. Torque to weight = 188 lb/ft per ton.
The BMW M135i weighs 1,500kg and has 316bhp - giving a a power to weight ratio of 210.7 bhp/ton. Torque to weight = 222 lb/ft per ton.
- So no wonder it pulls away, especially at higher speeds (200km/h and above), but the Torque to weights are much closer perhaps explaining the initial similarity .....
However, for reference - my Boxster S has 253.7 bhp/ton .....