GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Ap69 on 07 February 2014, 09:10
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Hi guys just wondering what your experiences have been with it.
It applied itself a few times for me, but on each occasion i wasn't about to rear end a car, twice yesterday a car a short distance ahead indicated and slowed as it turned left. If you can image my left wing was lined up to compley miss the turning cars rear anyway but i eased a little to the right so as he turned to 90 degrees to me as I passed him I would say there was at least 10ft between us. BANG buzzer front wheels locked momentarily and my collar bone took a wack off the seatbelt and I tried to kiss the steering wheel!
Thinking of deactivating it but it's there for a reason and might save a bump, (or let someone run in the back of me!) just seems a bit too sensitive.
Thanks
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I think I've only felt it activate once - came off a motorway on a slip road and the car in front stopped while I was momentarily hunting for a button on the console. I'd have got there and braked manually in time anyway, but I can't criticise the system for firing off and if I'd been a bit slower it could have saved a bang.
I have had the other levels of warnings fire off quite a bit though. I think the thresholds for those are quite clever - seem to depend on the speed of the car, the closing speed of the car in front and maybe even the weather conditions? Overall I'm quite impressed with it.
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I had Font Assist fully deployed on me only yesterday. I was approaching a roundabout from a dual carriageway and a big truck was slightly over the white line and in my lane waiting to pull away from the junction. Front assist did not like this and fully activated itself. Quite alarming! Very, very glad I didn't have someone behind me as I feel sure they would have rear ended me.
So, you've got to ask yourself whether this is helpful or not. There was enough room for me to squeeze past the stationary truck but Front Assist thought otherwise. I was a bit embarrassed to be honest as it looked like I had massively over reacted.
Where the system will save you is in potential rear-end situations, as others have described. I'm still trying to decide whether or not Front Assist is up to scratch, and can handle grey area situations like the one I've described.
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I've had the warning message and audible beep warning several times but fortunately in 4k so far I've not had braking cut in. The noise was enough to startle my passengers and wonder what the hell was going on.
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I have to say the system has saved me a few times so far. The most recent was Tuesday during a motor way cruise after all the cars in-front suddenly braked @ 70mph :sad:. On the down side I was driving around a roundabout a few weeks back in the inside lane of 3. The roundabout in question was quite tight and the sensor picked up the car in the next lane and slammed on the brakes. Very unnerving. I'm glad the car behind braked in time :sad:
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I've had mine trigger a few times. Usually at low speed when i'm comfortable i can get through a gap, system thinks otherwise and makes me look like a prat!
It tends to be quite trigger happy when over taking bicycles, most frustrating. However i do see it's benefits and think it will prevent many people having accidents.
J
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Front Assist. I must admit it's a bit of a gimmick. Yes technically it will help save you from a rear shunt however everytime mine has kicked in (3-4 times) it's been unnecessary.
I've noticed it always kicks in when a car is turning left and you cruise along knowing the car will be out the way by time you reach it but the front assist thinks you're about to ram the car off the road & swiftly slams the brakes on.
It's a new system so will hopefully improve over time. It is a good system though. But again it will save you from potential dangers the same way that walking around in a bio suit every day will protect you against any possible biological attacks. It will often make you look silly and rarely do what it's intended for.
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Front Assist. I must admit it's a bit of a gimmick. Yes technically it will help save you from a rear shunt however everytime mine has kicked in (3-4 times) it's been unnecessary.
I've noticed it always kicks in when a car is turning left and you cruise along knowing the car will be out the way by time you reach it but the front assist thinks you're about to ram the car off the road & swiftly slams the brakes on.
It's a new system so will hopefully improve over time. It is a good system though. But again it will save you from potential dangers the same way that walking around in a bio suit every day will protect you against any possible biological attacks. It will often make you look silly and rarely do what it's intended for.
Yep, it is trigger happy with vehicles turning left...though I had a warning today saying that it and the ACC couldn't operate, but I think that it is caused by dirt on the radar.
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Front Assist. I must admit it's a bit of a gimmick. Yes technically it will help save you from a rear shunt however everytime mine has kicked in (3-4 times) it's been unnecessary.
I've noticed it always kicks in when a car is turning left and you cruise along knowing the car will be out the way by time you reach it but the front assist thinks you're about to ram the car off the road & swiftly slams the brakes on.
It's a new system so will hopefully improve over time. It is a good system though. But again it will save you from potential dangers the same way that walking around in a bio suit every day will protect you against any possible biological attacks. It will often make you look silly and rarely do what it's intended for.
Super assessment there, it's precisely as i see/experience it.
Yet again tonight car in a de-acceleration lane to my left, no where near it a caboom, alarm and brakes those behind must have wondered what's on earth the erratic driver in front was upto!
Although it might save me from hitting a car ahead accepted, (once in 28 years) it's caused me too many issues so it's now disconnected.
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Although it might save me from hitting a car ahead accepted, (once in 28 years) it's caused me too many issues so it's now disconnected.
Just be careful as it will have serious insurance implications if you do have a smash and its noted to be turned off.
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Although it might save me from hitting a car ahead accepted, (once in 28 years) it's caused me too many issues so it's now disconnected.
Just be careful as it will have serious insurance implications if you do have a smash and its noted to be turned off.
Correct, your insurance would be void!
I've not had any issues with mine, perhaps the owners who are having issues get them checked out for calibration?
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Although it might save me from hitting a car ahead accepted, (once in 28 years) it's caused me too many issues so it's now disconnected.
Just be careful as it will have serious insurance implications if you do have a smash and its noted to be turned off.
Bit strong that don't think you can say will have, might have is about as far as you can go. Not aware of any case law on this so not sure where a defined statement comes from? Risk assess basis like everything, I don't run in many cars as quoted, but if every journey it slams on there's a much higher chance of someone running into me.
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The new MK7 Golf with front assist has a significantly lower insurance cost compared to a Golf without this system.
Therefore if you disable this system you could void your insurance unless you inform them, which will result in a higher premium.
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The new MK7 Golf with front assist has a significantly lower insurance cost compared to a Golf without this system.
Therefore if you disable this system you could void your insurance unless you inform them, which will result in a higher premium.
are drivers changes recorded as an audit trail? if not no one will know if a driver had it in what setting.
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I don't think anybody on here is able to say it would negate your insurance by using the Front Assist' on /off button.
Already one poster is saying "would be void" and then saying "could be void" in his next post.
Clearly there is no definitive answer about this just assumptions.
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Although it might save me from hitting a car ahead accepted, (once in 28 years) it's caused me too many issues so it's now disconnected.
Just be careful as it will have serious insurance implications if you do have a smash and its noted to be turned off.
Bit strong that don't think you can say will have, might have is about as far as you can go. Not aware of any case law on this so not sure where a defined statement comes from? Risk assess basis like everything, I don't run in many cars as quoted, but if every journey it slams on there's a much higher chance of someone running into me.
There may not be case law yet, but I am sure there will be in the next year or two!
Also, knowing insurance, I am sure they'll be able to get out of paying if the ACC is turned off. It depends on your insurance policy. I am sure soon enough it'll be specifically written in, the same way alarms and immobilisers are these days.
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Although it might save me from hitting a car ahead accepted, (once in 28 years) it's caused me too many issues so it's now disconnected.
Just be careful as it will have serious insurance implications if you do have a smash and its noted to be turned off.
Bit strong that don't think you can say will have, might have is about as far as you can go. Not aware of any case law on this so not sure where a defined statement comes from? Risk assess basis like everything, I don't run in many cars as quoted, but if every journey it slams on there's a much higher chance of someone running into me.
There may not be case law yet, but I am sure there will be in the next year or two!
Also, knowing insurance, I am sure they'll be able to get out of paying if the ACC is turned off. It depends on your insurance policy. I am sure soon enough it'll be specifically written in, the same way alarms and immobilisers are these days.
as previous if no audit trail no one will know
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Spoke to a friend who is a life long traffic copper. (I use the term 'friend' loosely! Haha).
He has stated that if you were to turn it off and had an accident as a result you would likely be prosecuted. He apparently knows of cases of this. I imagine it will depend on a case by case situation. If you have a knock at low speeds and it has been turned off for the reasons above (activating when cars turn left and such) you'll be ok, but if you plow into the back of someone tailgating on the motorway and it is off they'll have an issue.
He has also stated that it is recorded on the cars computer the times it is off and on.
To be honest, it sounds more like it would be used as evidence to assist with a conviction rather than a conviction in itself.
Only time will tell I suppose.
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If you can turn it off by design, then I really can't see anyone being able to prosecute you for not having it on or refusing to pay out on a claim through the insurance. If having it on is optional (i.e. you can switch it off by using a switch) then you have the option to switch it off. If it was mandatory to leave it on in the UK then VW would design it so that it could not be switched off (except by VCDS hack).
What's next? having a parking scrape and the insurance refusing to pay out because you chose to ignore your parking sensors because you normally deem them to be overly sensitive?
There is no current law that obliges you to keep it switched on at all times, and if it is non-operational in 3 years time, you would currently not fail your MOT for it not being operational (imagine that test- "we're going to drive your car behind our van, both vehicles will be doing 40mph. The van will then abruptly brake and if your car doesn't plough into the back of it then you've passed"
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There are many aspects of a car that aren't covered by the MOT but would still be an offence. For example, my fastback is rusted to hell but passed the MOT because the chassis is ok.
Also, an MOT only says a vehicle was ok to pass on the day of the test. If you get pulled over on the drive home a bulb goes, you could get pulled over and ticketed for it.
Also, I'm only relating information passed to me by someone who does that kind of thing for a living.
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Brilliant system, the main reason your insurance is so much lower.
Switch it off? Why?
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Brilliant system, the main reason your insurance is so much lower.
Switch it off? Why?
1 glad you're so pleased with it
2 for all the comments in the previous posts
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Edited due to comments made.
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Spoke to a friend who is a life long traffic copper. (I use the term 'friend' loosely! Haha).
He has stated that if you were to turn it off and had an accident as a result you would likely be prosecuted. He apparently knows of cases of this. I imagine it will depend on a case by case situation. If you have a knock at low speeds and it has been turned off for the reasons above (activating when cars turn left and such) you'll be ok, but if you plow into the back of someone tailgating on the motorway and it is off they'll have an issue.
He has also stated that it is recorded on the cars computer the times it is off and on.
To be honest, it sounds more like it would be used as evidence to assist with a conviction rather than a conviction in itself.
Only time will tell I suppose.
I also know a couple of traffic cops and whilst they would never want to admit it to you; they might privately acknowledge that their solid, hands on understanding of the law, is not to the depth of a qualified lawyer or a judge.
They rarely have the legal nuances to advise on a point of legal technicality such as this and until it's tried and tested in the courts or precedent is set, I would take it with a pinch of salt ....
I'm not aware of anyone turning their traction control or stability control off and being prosecuted for doing so - are you?
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The system can be turned off easily via a push of a button and so it is not obligatory to have it on.
If you had an accident with it turned off then it would be treated as any other accident would be. I highly doubt they will prosecute you for turning off a safety aid.
You can turn off the passenger airbag and if you do and have an accident I don't think you would be prosecuted for injury to the passenger. Again it would just go through insurance procedures as normal.
Now if you were speeding and had an accident then it would be another kettle of fish as you're then breaking the law. You're not breaking the law by having an optional safety feature turned off though.
Can't see that standing up in court.
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I thought front assist only actually braked the car between speeds of 3 and 19mph?
I've only ever had it come on, beep and show the rather alarming red chevron graphic in the MFD, but never actually brake for me!
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Exactly as Mr Savage has said re the front assist. There are things you would get into trouble switching off, like using VCDS to switch off your DRLs because they are obligatory on all cars made after some date in 2012.
Front assist fitment and usage is not obligatory by law (it would be fitted on all new cars if it were), and unless your insurance has a specific clause in it that says you must have all safety related devices switched on at all times then they will not be able to void your insurance if you go into the back of someone with it switched off.
Even with front assist on, there is always the possibility of hitting the car in front, if that car has a more sensitive front assist system than yours and better brakes, or your sensor is dirty.
I'm not entirely convinced that the GTI dropping 5 insurance groups is entirely down to the inclusion of front assist. The MK7 GTI only gained 10PS over the MK6 and dropped 5 groups, the MK7 GTD gained 14PS over the MK6 and yet it is the same insurance group. Perhaps the MK6 was overly high on it's grouping vs risk. 220PS isn't exactly remarkable in the hot hatch stakes any more - it is the GTI's handling that makes it punch above it's weight. There are plenty of non-sporty executive cars with as much power that are grouped as low. You've also got to remember the average Golf driver isn't some 18 year old boy racer either, so I wouldn't group it as harshly as a VXR or ST3 based on perceptions of the average driver for each of those cars.
As per the turning the passenger airbag off and a passenger sustaining more injury as a result of it not being on, you'd lead yourself wide open for a civil suit, but almost certainly not a criminal prosecution.
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I thought front assist only actually braked the car between speeds of 3 and 19mph?
I've only ever had it come on, beep and show the rather alarming red chevron graphic in the MFD, but never actually brake for me!
There are 2 systems - the ACC system at normal driving speeds, and city assist, up to 19mph. The ACC system can warn you or give you a bang on the brakes if you don't respond when the required rate of deceleration to maintain a safe gap exceeds 30% of the vehicle's maximum stopping power. It won't properly brake for you because it could stall the car if it brakes to the point that the car's speed in whatever gear you are in falls below idling speed. City assist can bring the car to a stop, even if it stalls the car.
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Exactly as Mr Savage has said re the front assist. There are things you would get into trouble switching off, like using VCDS to switch off your DRLs because they are obligatory on all cars made after some date in 2012.
Just to be clear - that is only relevent to cars type approved after February 2011. This includes the Golf Mk.7 but not the Golf Mk.6 or current Scirocco.
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I thought front assist only actually braked the car between speeds of 3 and 19mph?
I've only ever had it come on, beep and show the rather alarming red chevron graphic in the MFD, but never actually brake for me!
This is my experience as well. I've never felt the car brake for me although the red flashy symbol has appeared a few times
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I thought front assist only actually braked the car between speeds of 3 and 19mph?
I've only ever had it come on, beep and show the rather alarming red chevron graphic in the MFD, but never actually brake for me!
This is my experience as well. I've never felt the car brake for me although the red flashy symbol has appeared a few times
Not sure of the speed Craig on the first example but well over 19 probably somewhere 40ish i knew the van was turning left and be out of the way in a couple of seconds the puter just sees an obstacle and bang on they went for half second locking the fronts, only half a second as the van was gone then. Maybe mines too sensitive, just normal driving like everyone else you see I'm not a boy racer or tailgater, problem solved for now it's turned off.
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I thought front assist only actually braked the car between speeds of 3 and 19mph?
I've only ever had it come on, beep and show the rather alarming red chevron graphic in the MFD, but never actually brake for me!
This is my experience as well. I've never felt the car brake for me although the red flashy symbol has appeared a few times
Not sure of the speed Craig on the first example but well over 19 probably somewhere 40ish i knew the van was turning left and be out of the way in a couple of seconds the puter just sees an obstacle and bang on they went for half second locking the fronts, only half a second as the van was gone then. Maybe fines too sensitive, just normal driving like everyone else you see I'm not a boy racer or tailgater, problem solved for now it's turned off.
I've had a couple of minor occasions where the car in front of me has braked sharply without me realising initially and I would have maybe expected the front assist to kick in and nothing has happened. So I'm not sure I entirely trust the system to work when required.
Ps I see your car is famous on the r forum :grin:
http://rforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=4207&sid=fea3b424f9ac6a06ce8f772849f6b888
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Euro NCAP offer an interesting assessment of the system on their website:
http://www.euroncap.com/rewards/vw_front_assist.aspx (http://www.euroncap.com/rewards/vw_front_assist.aspx)
There is also a video testing the VW system here:
http://www.euroncap.com/player_Mediacenter.aspx?nk=e47304cd-36ac-4d99-8dd8-09df5c67953d (http://www.euroncap.com/player_Mediacenter.aspx?nk=e47304cd-36ac-4d99-8dd8-09df5c67953d)
Under the section "What are the limitations?", it appears to suggest that the braking force is increased from 3.5m/s^2 to 6m/s^2 if a front mono-camera is fitted in conjunction with the radar. I wasn't aware the Golf had a standard fit front camera, I thought it was only added if you specified the High Beam Assist.
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I've had a couple of minor occasions where the car in front of me has braked sharply without me realising initially and I would have maybe expected the front assist to kick in and nothing has happened. So I'm not sure I entirely trust the system to work when required.
Ps I see your car is famous on the r forum :grin:
http://rforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=4207&sid=fea3b424f9ac6a06ce8f772849f6b888
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Thanks Craig I might put it back on and just drive further back!
O yes she's famous!
That you on YouTube (think I might have asked you before) white driving though a town?
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I've had a couple of minor occasions where the car in front of me has braked sharply without me realising initially and I would have maybe expected the front assist to kick in and nothing has happened. So I'm not sure I entirely trust the system to work when required.
Ps I see your car is famous on the r forum :grin:
http://rforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=4207&sid=fea3b424f9ac6a06ce8f772849f6b888
Thanks Craig I might put it back on and just drive further back!
O yes she's famous!
That you on YouTube (think I might have asked you before) white driving though a town?
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Yeah that's me pal :smiley:
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Re enabled today and it's not 'gone off' despite in 50miles situation that would have triggered it before. A reboot seems to have done it!
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Comment's noted guy's. What if you buy an ex-demo for example, (like me), and the front assist is turned off? I didn't even know you could turn it off before reading this thread! Seems to me that Insurance Co would have a hard time proving you'd turned it off knowingly?
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Can anyone find a case where insurance didn't pay out because someone had switched off a "user configurable" "safety" aid?
Such as ESP? Don't most car driver manuals suggest ESP is switched off for certain instances, such as getting out of deep snow. What if you did this and then had a prang. " The manual told me to do it.... "
I would think anything that the driver can legitimately turn off, can not be then used against the driver after an event.
I stand to be corrected and appreciate most insurance companies are sharks who will look for any reason to not payout, but I really don't see these instances standing up if it came to a disagreement. Most reasons they would use against the driver as far as car safety is concerned would be covered by an MOT type test, tyres, brakes, steering etc etc.
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As mentioned by a couple of guys, until something like this is challenged in court and a precedence is set there is no definitive answer. The big difference I see with the front assist system is that it does give an insurance discount. Therefore the insurers are acknowledging its existence and the help it can provide and then calculating your [reduced] premium based on this. Does having ESP on your car affect your insurance premium? If not then I would imagine they wouldn't care if it was on or off...
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As mentioned by a couple of guys, until something like this is challenged in court and a precedence is set there is no definitive answer. The big difference I see with the front assist system is that it does give an insurance discount. Therefore the insurers are acknowledging its existence and the help it can provide and then calculating your [reduced] premium based on this. Does having ESP on your car affect your insurance premium? If not then I would imagine they wouldn't care if it was on or off...
As previously stated, unless your insurance has a clause in it specifically telling you that to switch off a safety aid which may have prevented a collision would void your insurance, an insurance company wouldn’t have a cat in hells chance of wriggling out of a payout on the non-use of a user selectable device. Even with inclusion of such a clause, they’d have to clearly define what is considered a driver safety device as it could be argued that the sensor is a cruise control system assist device to maintain a distance rather than purely to brake/alert. At that point you may end up in court to decide whether the clause was fair and enforceable if you had a smash and the insurance company used non-activation of the front assist system (and no other reason) as a reason not to pay out.
These systems aren’t infallible, they are an aid to recognising a dangerous situation, not a guarantee to prevent it happening (or even a guarantee that they will recognise a situation in every occurrence). There are times when I cover the brake and allow my car to get a bit closer to the car in front, knowing that the gap will open up again and the times the system does not seem to recognise the car in front by displaying the “!(car symbol)!” warning when I am close to the car in front leads me to think that I cannot rely on it. I have it on in the hope that if I ever missed a situation myself that it might alert me, but I wouldn’t bank on it.
Absolutely no chance with the current tech, under current law that an insurance company would be able to nail you to the wall for switching off your front assist and not be accountable for reneging on your cover.
Fitment of this system on the GTD has not reduced the grouping risk compared to the MK6, so the argument for “fitment has reduced premiums” does not stack up for the GTD. Insurance is all about risk – they will base their premiums partially on the risk that X% of drivers will fully use this aid and may benefit from it but currently cannot insist upon its activation at all times. What’s the insurance grouping difference between a Demo GTI without the sensor and a proper retail/full spec version? I’d bet it isn’t 5 groups, bet it isn’t even 2 groups. Chances are, they’ll be the same group.
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I imagine that if you look in the detail VW probably take every opportunity to state that Front Assist is a driver aid and not a guaranteed safety feature, too, in order to avoid potential liability issues when/if it doesn't work and someone gets hurt. It would be hard for the insurance company to argue the opposite to the manufacturer.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_ZNG8cmnlw
This has been on here before on another thread. Interesting that the Merc didn't stop in time showing that it would be difficult to prove whether turning it off would've prevented a collision. But interesting what the guy from Thatcham says right at the end about Euro NCap making it part of their testing. It's a driver aid but when all said and done the driver is still in control of the car. I imagine it could save somebody a "driving without due care and attention" rap. But surely until such time as every car has it fitted the insurers would have to disprove the argument that turning it off prevented you being rear ended as much as leaving it on could prevent you running into the back of someone.
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I didn't realise it was a switchable option. I thought it was via vag.com. In that case I doubt the insurance companies could do anything. Although with more and more cars having this system we might see a change in the wording.
Weren't earlier GTI/GTDs in a higher grouping because they didn't have the added radar?
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I have had a few occasions where the system has given a warning beep and displayed the red chevrons and I have to say that it seemed to be over cautious at the very least. Yesterday whilst approaching London Bridge the braking system activated whilst there were no vehicles in front of me or beside me ( rare in London I know). It was unnerving to say the least as it brought me to a complete halt causing a great deal of amusement to pedestrians, not so much amusement for the taxi driver behind me who gave me a friendly wave and a toot of his horn to say hello! Think I will call my dealer service department today.
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Out of interest, how do you switch it off?
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Out of interest, how do you switch it off?
In the MFD menus (probably under "car" menu or maybe something like "assistance" - can't remember) you can switch off "front assist" via tick box.
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Out of interest, how do you switch it off?
or hold your tcs button down
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I thought front assist only actually braked the car between speeds of 3 and 19mph?
I've only ever had it come on, beep and show the rather alarming red chevron graphic in the MFD, but never actually brake for me!
I've had it brake for me, and it was a lot higher than 19mph! Horrible crunching noise as well.
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I thought front assist only actually braked the car between speeds of 3 and 19mph?
I've only ever had it come on, beep and show the rather alarming red chevron graphic in the MFD, but never actually brake for me!
I've had it brake for me, and it was a lot higher than 19mph! Horrible crunching noise as well.
under 20mph is not brake assist tech, or city braking
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Cheers gents
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I thought front assist only actually braked the car between speeds of 3 and 19mph?
I've only ever had it come on, beep and show the rather alarming red chevron graphic in the MFD, but never actually brake for me!
I've had it brake for me, and it was a lot higher than 19mph! Horrible crunching noise as well.
under 20mph is not brake assist tech, or city braking
Dont know wtf happened when I wrote that it was supposed to say "only braking under 20mph is old brake assist tech or city braking", now it will break up to 120mph or summat like that never plan on finding out the upper limit lol
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Perhaps someone can clear this up for me? I understood DSG cars use ACC from 0mph and manual cars use Front Assist from 0mph to 19mph. Then ACC from 20mph upwards. Are these two different systems?
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Perhaps someone can clear this up for me? I understood DSG cars use ACC from 0mph and manual cars use Front Assist from 0mph to 19mph. Then ACC from 20mph upwards. Are these two different systems?
No, its just that on a manual its got a low point cut off, probably as youre likely to stall maybe. Its also likely that with vcds you can alter this range, but then i dont know what that would do to the emergency braking so i wont mess with it.
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The cutoff point is related to the rate that the engine is revving, if you manually drop down the gears as ACC slows you down it will go pretty low before it gives you the warning beep and tells you to take over.
Isn't there two types of brake warning? I thought at speed you could get a 'tap' on the brakes to draw your attention, but that's not the same thing as the slow speed braking (city braking) where the car will do a full emergency stop if required.