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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: GrahamFR on 27 January 2014, 13:03

Title: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: GrahamFR on 27 January 2014, 13:03
http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/top-gear-series-21-preview-gallery-pictures-2014-1-24

Slide 13, were going to lose, unless jezza crashes the BMW, or the LSD is better than we think. Lets hope its not on Bridgestones.

Also, it is a PP isnt it? those brakes look a bit small?
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: CraigW on 27 January 2014, 13:21
When it talks about JC having the longest crash of his life im assuming they are talking about it happening in the GTI because it would be too obvious for it to happen in the Beamer.

Doesn't sound good  :sad:
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Poached on 27 January 2014, 13:30
It might help if they actually compared like for like vehicles.

GTI PP should be reviewed against 125i or whatever the BMW equivalent is.

m135i vs MK7 R
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: GrahamFR on 27 January 2014, 13:35
well top gear do like the GTI, so maybe its a surprise win for VW
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Jimmy Filth on 27 January 2014, 13:42
+1 to the above.

Saw a review recently between GTi, AMG 63 and M135.

Difference is about 80-100bhp and £8000 between the VW and the other two.

The GOlf R was still £3000 cheaper than the other two!
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 27 January 2014, 14:05
http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/top-gear-series-21-preview-gallery-pictures-2014-1-24

Slide 13, were going to lose, unless jezza crashes the BMW, or the LSD is better than we think. Lets hope its not on Bridgestones.

Also, it is a PP isnt it? those brakes look a bit small?

Maybe it's the 19's making them look small??  :huh:
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 27 January 2014, 14:09
It might help if they actually compared like for like vehicles.

GTI PP should be reviewed against 125i or whatever the BMW equivalent is.

m135i vs MK7 R


Couldn't agree more!

I wouldn't be surprised if they have manual Vs. auto, either!!!  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: GrahamFR on 27 January 2014, 14:14
http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/top-gear-series-21-preview-gallery-pictures-2014-1-24

Slide 13, were going to lose, unless jezza crashes the BMW, or the LSD is better than we think. Lets hope its not on Bridgestones.

Also, it is a PP isnt it? those brakes look a bit small?

Maybe it's the 19's making them look small??  :huh:

I hope so, or else were doomed
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: JBirchy on 27 January 2014, 14:31
Well, Clarkson is a GTI fan and it's raining so I'll put my neck on the line and guess that Clarkson will say the GTI is a better all rounder!!

My brother in law owns an M135i and says it's awful in the wet! I reckon if it is a PP car with the better diff, the GTI would be in with a shout.

Either way, lets face it.. They're both excellent cars.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: mjh_056 on 27 January 2014, 16:24
Firstly it is either a compliment or just sheer ignorance that the GTI is placed against 135i as hardly like for like but that aside if take the review by Tiff Needell where he b!tched and moaned that could not get the GTI out of shape no matter how hard he tried (and he tries hard!) due to electronics'driving assistances then you would think it was the BMW and not the GTI. Though this is in wet and Tiff was on dry but still think be same outcome.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: monsta on 27 January 2014, 16:36
Well, Clarkson is a GTI fan and it's raining so I'll put my neck on the line and guess that Clarkson will say the GTI is a better all rounder!!

Agreed!

This is like anxiously waiting for exam results!  But, as your parents will say, as long as you tried your best that's all we can expect.  The Diff on the PP GTI should literally pull through on this occasion, fingers crossed.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: jivemonkey on 27 January 2014, 16:42
Either way, having experienced the interior size (lack of), interior quality (lack of), seat comfort (lack of), auto box, [add as necessary], etc etc, of the 1 series, I would take the Mk7 over it any day.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Mr Savage on 27 January 2014, 16:47
Surely it can't be a GTI that slides out. It's going to be embarrassing if it loses traction before a rear wheel drive.

That doesn't look like the PP brakes and it's on 19"'s for some reason and I have absolutely no idea why they're comparing a 30k car with a 40k car?!?
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: davyk31 on 27 January 2014, 16:57
Maybe they are comparing a 30k car with a 40k car to demonstrate how good the GTI and how excellent value it is.

Having said that you can get 20% + off list price of the M135i so it isn't as big a price gap as it seems.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: corgi on 27 January 2014, 18:05
Either way, having experienced the interior size (lack of), interior quality (lack of), seat comfort (lack of), auto box, [add as necessary], etc etc, of the 1 series, I would take the Mk7 over it any day.

Interior quality is as good as the Golf (in my experience), the 8-speed (sports) auto is very good, the driving position and seats are better than in the Golf but the Golf is much better equipped and more airy and rides much better (even without DCC)...

I don't understand what the fuss is about. You chose a Golf, others, including Clarkson, rightly or wrongly might have chose a 135i but it is all subjective... If you're happy with your car why would you worry what that plank, or anybody else for that matter, thinks?
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: jivemonkey on 27 January 2014, 18:14
Either way, having experienced the interior size (lack of), interior quality (lack of), seat comfort (lack of), auto box, [add as necessary], etc etc, of the 1 series, I would take the Mk7 over it any day.

Interior quality is as good as the Golf (in my experience), the 8-speed (sports) auto is very good, the driving position and seats are better than in the Golf but the Golf is much better equipped and more airy and rides much better (even without DCC)...

I don't understand what the fuss is about. You chose a Golf, others, including Clarkson, rightly or wrongly might have chose a 135i but it is all subjective... If you're happy with your car why would you worry what that plank, or anybody else for that matter, thinks?

I personally don't care, that's why I said that I would choose a Golf over the 1 series, my experience of the 1 series was poor to such an extent that I couldn't give two hoots about what any review says.  I bought, in my mind, the better car, which continues to work for me. Just putting my view out there, which is the point is it not?
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Carl! on 27 January 2014, 18:25
They probably both get blown up by tanks top gear as got that silly.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: mcmaddy on 27 January 2014, 18:56
look closely at the front wheels and you'll see red callipers.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: lew321 on 27 January 2014, 19:20
Going by this photo it does have PP. I found this picture the other day, they must of drained the battery doing something  :grin:

http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy160/lew321/topgear_zpsab137d8d.jpg
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: GrahamFR on 27 January 2014, 19:33
How can you tell?
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Mr Savage on 27 January 2014, 19:41
Both GTI's have red calipers. I can't see the GTI lettering on them so don't think it is the PP. Should have put the R up against this.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Ginagee on 27 January 2014, 19:43
Doesn't Clarkson own a Mk7 GTi? Can't remember where I'd heard that.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: lew321 on 27 January 2014, 19:45
When you zoom in on the brakes you can just see the white lettering on them.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: thai-wronghorse on 27 January 2014, 20:11
When you zoom in on the brakes you can just see the white lettering on them.

This is true.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Croz13 on 27 January 2014, 21:07
The car used seems to be the same as this Auto Express video - manual PP GTI

http://youtu.be/t5jVPZUXOYM
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: 2014GTi on 27 January 2014, 21:54
How can you tell?
The GTI logo on the brakes  :wink:
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Ginagee on 28 January 2014, 08:51
The car used seems to be the same as this Auto Express video - manual PP GTI

http://youtu.be/t5jVPZUXOYM

Agree, looks to be the same car. Reg looks to be the same, can't quite make out the last 2 digits. I've zoomed in and can't see any lettering on brake callipers. Is there another higher resolution image you're looking at?
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Ap69 on 29 January 2014, 20:50
Closer than you might think

Don't know if the BM gets a poor launch but pausing it 0-60mph golf ahead if you pause when the BM reads 100kph you will see the golf digital readout higher, pause on 160k the BM is ahead by a bit but nothing like I would have thought given the huge extra bhp http://youtu.be/i9AWoOgLmBw
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Mr Savage on 30 January 2014, 01:39
Closer than you might think

Don't know if the BM gets a poor launch but pausing it 0-60mph golf ahead if you pause when the BM reads 100kph you will see the golf digital readout higher, pause on 160k the BM is ahead by a bit but nothing like I would have thought given the huge extra bhp http://youtu.be/i9AWoOgLmBw

Gotta love the Golf it's really punching above it's weight. The Golf is actually quicker to 100kmh on that video and then it's level until 140kmh when the BMW finally starts to pick up some pace on the Golf. Pretty hilarious really considering the price difference & the claimed 0-62 times of both cars.

Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Gingernick on 30 January 2014, 09:53
I think the golf is more powerful and quicker than the 'official' published figures..with 1 person in the car my PP pack vehicle feels incredibly quick. and thats without really hammering it as I am being a good boy for a while!

I suppose as more cars get dyno'd we might see actual reported figures on real cars
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: corgi on 30 January 2014, 13:31
I suppose as more cars get dyno'd we might see actual reported figures on real cars

Different dynos will give you different figures depending on the dyno and the conditions. You might take your 210bhp car to three dynos on the same day, one give you a figure for crank bhp of say 198, the one down the road 232 and the final one 212...

And none of them are correct, the best use of a dyno is for comparison before and after engine mods...

So relying on dynos to tell you whether the power rating of a GTI PP is over or understated doesn't work in the real world unless you can get yourself a very large sample and make the assumption that the errors generated are random... I suspect the average dyno reads high, for obvious reasons...
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Ap69 on 30 January 2014, 19:52
Totally agree just frightened myself briefly on the way home (1st drive) simply incredible car :)
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: ROO1 on 08 February 2014, 07:09
http://youtu.be/yv3MhMXO010
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: GrahamFR on 08 February 2014, 08:42
Those chipbox YouTube videos are absolute crap
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: 2014GTi on 08 February 2014, 08:59
The best thing in the clip was that girls rear, wow! :)
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: ROO1 on 08 February 2014, 13:49
The best thing in the clip was that girls rear, wow! :)

I agree, the Gti was awful too
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: gazmondo35 on 08 February 2014, 15:28
Does anybody have any idea when mk7 gti will be on topgear,i'm dying to find out what they make of it.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: lew321 on 08 February 2014, 15:40
It's not mentioned for tomorrow looking at the the listing, the P1 is  :smiley:
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: matchboy on 09 February 2014, 11:54
Don't think its tonight, nor next week as I think that's the Xmas special.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: lew321 on 09 February 2014, 19:31
Looking at the listings for next Sunday, Clarkson drives the VW up in Ukraine on a trip with the other two in a fiesta and a sandero.

Maybe they are leaving the best for last :grin:
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: evo GT on 23 February 2014, 09:25
Next Sunday's Top Gear (02-03-14) features a hot hatch showdown.  Should be the GTi vs. the rest   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Mr Savage on 23 February 2014, 14:51
Yes the Mk7 GTI is on next weeks episode. (March 2nd) not looking forward to a pasting from the BMW :P
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: gazmondo35 on 23 February 2014, 17:01
Next week's show will be interesting for 2 reasons it will either get a good review of a bad one, if Clarkson loves it your going to see a lot more mk7 kicking around, but if he go all power power & prefers the bm it might make the gti a bit more exclusive & kepting resale value a bit higher.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Jimble on 23 February 2014, 18:03
They've already said on the show that it's a "very, very good car" when they were talking about the adaptive suspension, they also put it up against the Fiesta ST on the road trip DVD and loved both.

I'm not likely to want the "magical lift off oversteer" that Tiff goes on about cos i'd probably just back it into a tree!!
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: stiggy786 on 23 February 2014, 19:25
Next Sunday's Top Gear (02-03-14) features a hot hatch showdown.  Should be the GTi vs. the rest   :rolleyes:

Eeek that's the day I'm picking up my GTI, all my mates will be tuning in to judge the car...
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Ap69 on 23 February 2014, 21:47
Next Sunday's Top Gear (02-03-14) features a hot hatch showdown.  Should be the GTi vs. the rest   :rolleyes:

Eeek that's the day I'm picking up my GTI, all my mates will be tuning in to judge the car...

They might be impressed with this though......
http://youtu.be/i9AWoOgLmBw
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: ffrank on 24 February 2014, 09:41
Next Sunday's Top Gear (02-03-14) features a hot hatch showdown.  Should be the GTi vs. the rest   :rolleyes:

Eeek that's the day I'm picking up my GTI, all my mates will be tuning in to judge the car...

They might be impressed with this though......
http://youtu.be/i9AWoOgLmBw
As much as I love the GTI, there is something wrong with that video, I've never seen a 135i take 6 seconds to 60! Here's another 135i 0-60 for comparison http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5suVTG90YjI#t=4

A good video comparing the GTI and BMW is this one, worth a watch if you haven't seen it :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCoWi_wU-oM
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Ap69 on 24 February 2014, 09:52
As much as I love the GTI, there is something wrong with that video, I've never seen a 135i take 6 seconds to 60! Here's another 135i 0-60 for comparison http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5suVTG90YjI#t=4

A good video comparing the GTI and BMW is this one, worth a watch if you haven't seen it :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCoWi_wU-oM
[/quote]

I think you're right, not much to compare performance wise when it's got circa 30% more power. A golf golf example what 25% more power does (@1m 20s) power to weight wins out.
http://youtu.be/_irbzli_LCA
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: ffrank on 24 February 2014, 12:05
Now you are just rubbing it in  :tongue: :wink: :smiley:

I'm wondering if last nights Top Gear was foreshadowing for next week?

Both May and Clarkson chose cars where the driving experience was more important than the sheer performance of their counterparts. So next week, with the GTI up against the 135i....

Or, perhaps it's just because I'm married to an English teacher - I look for foreshadowing in far too many places :)
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: mikeok on 24 February 2014, 12:14
Oh no...dont forget call the midwife is on at the same time guys...you wouldnt want to miss that now.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Ginagee on 28 February 2014, 13:38
Slide 7…. What are they saying??????
http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/Behind-the-scenes-on-Top-Gear-2014-02-27

I can't wait. But nervous it maybe the GTi that gives Jeremy the crash of his life. Noooooooooo :undecided: :undecided:
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: GrahamFR on 28 February 2014, 14:13
Slide 7…. What are they saying??????
http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/Behind-the-scenes-on-Top-Gear-2014-02-27

I can't wait. But nervous it maybe the GTi that gives Jeremy the crash of his life. Noooooooooo :undecided: :undecided:

No i reckon thats JC's 'cant decide face', Richard has probably just asked if he would go for bmw...
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: RobS23GTI on 28 February 2014, 19:41
It's the BMW he spins, and prefers the GTI as it didn't nearly kill him.

Although the BMW mullers the GTI on the lap time by quite a distance.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: mike. on 28 February 2014, 20:21
Not a big shock  220BHP vs 320BHP
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: MustardGTI on 28 February 2014, 20:33
They're talking about it on a 1 series forum too. The poster had attended the recording of the show.

http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=58513&sid=d490fd903673f4819435d94eebd92423
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Ginagee on 28 February 2014, 22:53
They're talking about it on a 1 series forum too. The poster had attended the recording of the show.

http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=58513&sid=d490fd903673f4819435d94eebd92423

'Look away now if you don't want to know the result'  :whistle:
I had actually put me & the hubby's name down to be in the audience this time round, alas - what with a 100 million strong waiting list, we didn't get through!
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: mikeok on 02 March 2014, 20:22
Just watched it. Decent review in the end. Not a fair comparison when it comes to power however but GTI diff is awsome.
im suprised the 135i got of the line in the wet. I currently own a 335i and it struggles to get the power down in those conditions....cant wait to get my GTI tho..
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: davyk31 on 02 March 2014, 21:41
Would the R not have been a better comparison in terms of bhp and cost, that would have been an interesting comparison. Guess the R wasn't released when they did the filming.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: VWTM545 on 02 March 2014, 21:50
It was a good review in the end for the GTI! Like others, I think the Beemer should have been up against the R, what with the power difference between the two!
It's also not really a surprise JC crashed the Beemer, doing 120 mph on what basically looked like a lake was never going to end well
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: davyk31 on 03 March 2014, 20:49
And reportedly with all traction control turned off.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: TheCarMadDad on 04 March 2014, 00:08
Is there a distinct lack of MK7 Golf R's as press cars or something, as I am yet to see a proper road test where the R & M135i & the AMG are brought to the ring???
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: matchboy on 04 March 2014, 11:16
It was a very strange comparison, given that the M135i is much more powerful (as is the Mercedes A45) - so it would have been a fairer comparison against the R.  Saying that, the GTI came out of it very well, and also it was my exact car so it was nice to see it on the tele!  :cool:
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: 2014GTi on 04 March 2014, 22:06
I think it's a case of Volkswagen restricting supply to the press. Their press launch was allowing the press to drive on snow/ice. This would easily hide any handling issues like understeering which is usually exhibited by Haldex based systems.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: JB GTI on 04 March 2014, 22:10
A better comparison would have put the GTI against the 125i.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: dirvy on 04 March 2014, 22:51
Who cares, he says gti is better than a £45k merc and a cramped slippery bmw. Top speed isn't everything. Maybe gti is better than golf r?
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: gazmondo35 on 05 March 2014, 06:32
Check this out its in German but you get the idea, the golf r is the best https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAtsh40JqGI&feature=youtube_gdata_player




Sent from Samsung Mobile
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: 2014GTi on 05 March 2014, 07:29
Check this out its in German but you get the idea, the golf r is the best https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAtsh40JqGI&feature=youtube_gdata_player




Sent from Samsung Mobile
I would have to agree that the Golf R is probably the best for my needs between those two if I wanted something more powerful but the front end design compared to the GTI was a bit of a let down along with poor cloth interior design, standard GTI PP brake setup and the lack of VAQ. :)
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: TheCarMadDad on 06 March 2014, 03:42
I think it's a case of Volkswagen restricting supply to the press. Their press launch was allowing the press to drive on snow/ice. This would easily hide any handling issues like understeering which is usually exhibited by Haldex based systems.

I don't get it, why use a system with known issues?
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 06 March 2014, 13:35
Check this out its in German but you get the idea, the golf r is the best https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAtsh40JqGI&feature=youtube_gdata_player




Sent from Samsung Mobile


I'm not 100% sure, but I think he's saying the DTM driver rates them as follows:- (on track)

1) Golf R
2) M135
3) S3
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: GrahamFR on 06 March 2014, 13:48
Check this out its in German but you get the idea, the golf r is the best https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAtsh40JqGI&feature=youtube_gdata_player




Sent from Samsung Mobile


I'm not 100% sure, but I think he's saying the DTM driver rates them as follows:- (on track)

1) Golf R
2) M135
3) S3

Well thats strange, is there really going to be any difference at all between the S3 and R, its just badges and shells after all. Maybe they had different tyres on
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: thai-wronghorse on 06 March 2014, 13:53
Suspension set up, tyres, weight, different driver?
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: Poached on 06 March 2014, 18:11
Check this out its in German but you get the idea, the golf r is the best https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAtsh40JqGI&feature=youtube_gdata_player




Sent from Samsung Mobile


I'm not 100% sure, but I think he's saying the DTM driver rates them as follows:- (on track)

1) Golf R
2) M135
3) S3

Well thats strange, is there really going to be any difference at all between the S3 and R, its just badges and shells after all. Maybe they had different tyres on

Journos seem to suggest the 6R was more engaging than the 8P S3 but you wouldn't expect much difference.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: 2014GTi on 06 March 2014, 23:16
I think it's a case of Volkswagen restricting supply to the press. Their press launch was allowing the press to drive on snow/ice. This would easily hide any handling issues like understeering which is usually exhibited by Haldex based systems.

I don't get it, why use a system with known issues?
it's just they way most Haldex systems work, they are getting better but Haldex is still only a FWD system which can divert to the rear if required, not a true AWD system.
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: corgi on 07 March 2014, 17:09
it's just they way most Haldex systems work, they are getting better but Haldex is still only a FWD system which can divert to the rear if required, not a true AWD system.

Some of that is even true...

On the face of it, Haldex should be a good system. 4-wheel drive on demand... and the Haldex company will tell you that it is faster than a permanent four wheel drive system at shunting the power around, it allows for better weight distribution (ever driven a proper quattro equipped Audi, they tend to be very ponderous and nose heavy because the engine sits ahead of the front wheels), it is capable of shunting up to 100% of the power rearwards - As I understand it, there is no reason why a Haldex system could not be set up to be 30:70 F:R variable between 10:90 and 50:50 depending on conditions...

Now, VAG does not like the idea of rear wheel drive cars. Remember, in the 70s Audi commissioned Porsche to design them a coupe... the resulting car was rejected, not because it was bad but only because it was rear wheel drive... that car became the 924/944/968 family and Audi came up with the first Audi Coupe.

So VAG does not like rear drive cars and as a result sets up all of it Haldex equipped cars with quite a heavy front bias (partly to reduce driveline losses - there is normally no drive to the rear) and design them for safe understeer through this and suspension setup. This is not the fault of the Haldex system but trait built into VAG cars for perceived safety... Over the years they have improved the balance but the last I drove - Audi TTS - whilst admittedly well built, fast and sure footed was still numb with understeer at the (high) limit...
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: 2014GTi on 07 March 2014, 17:17
So... like I've mentioned on other threads, if you want real corner fun and grip with zero understeer, get a GTI PP.
The Golf R will probably understeer and XDS+ will heat the brakes up and wear them down  :whistle:
Title: Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
Post by: corgi on 08 March 2014, 19:24
So... like I've mentioned on other threads, if you want real corner fun and grip with zero understeer, get a GTI PP.
The Golf R will probably understeer and XDS+ will heat the brakes up and wear them down  :whistle:

No... Get a car with properly adjustable suspension and have it set up properly...

In the end a Golf, PP or no will under steer at the limit...

If corner fun is what you're after... Get something light, well balanced and rear wheel drive... A Caterham, perhaps...