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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: Len on 21 January 2014, 12:34

Title: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 21 January 2014, 12:34
I know the new exhaust manifold will not fit my existing system!

I have options.

1. Cut the two bolt flange off the old down pipe and weld it onto the end of the new downpipe. (stainless to mild weld)

2. Use the supplied piece of straight pipe which I think will replace the CAT. Still have to find out if its long enough!

3. Cut the two bolt flange off the front end of the CAT and cut supplied length of pipe and weld up.

Not sure what I want to do or can do!!!

Do I really want to run de-catted???
Yes it would improve performance.

Suggestions??
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: itavaltalainen on 21 January 2014, 13:45
get a stainless steel reducer (there's a guy that stretches pipe made to measure) cut front silencer pipe a bit shorter.... weld the reducer bit on the use the dual clamp to fit to cat....

Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 21 January 2014, 19:34
I can see I am going to have to take some piccies!

The CAT has the flat plate with two bolt holes.
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: tweed on 21 January 2014, 22:20
Whats the problem?  Why cant you fit a abf exhaust?
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 22 January 2014, 12:49
Not following this are you and yet you comment! :rolleyes:

Its a Supersprint tubular exhaust manifold and down pipe 4in2in1.
Which is necessitated by the 2.1litre engine with flowed & ported head
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: tweed on 22 January 2014, 12:58
So supersprint system for a abf/vr6 (2.8) is not going to fit?
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: tweed on 22 January 2014, 13:02
Im following just dont under stand why you cant fit a exhaust. 
And you still haven't explained why.

Just trying to help but you shoot me down.

Top bloke you are.
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Foreveryoungaus16v on 22 January 2014, 13:05
Don't worry Wheel Specialist you are always a lot of help to me :smiley:
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 22 January 2014, 13:20
I have tried to explain in the first post!
If you cannot understand what the problem is then I will have to post pictures.

It fits onto the head its the other end.
The Italians assume I am going to run de-catted and I am not sure yet!
Also it doesnt look like the de-cat pipe is long enough. (but I am yet to check that)
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: tweed on 22 January 2014, 14:31
I have a standard stanless flange that I made to fit a aftermarket manifold. I gasket matched it but made the inside diameter bigger to fit the aftermarket manifold.

I still have it as I sold the car.

Cant you make a flange? Its not hard.
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: tweed on 22 January 2014, 14:33
Ill dig it out later and take a pic for you.
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Ess_Three on 22 January 2014, 15:23

Its a Supersprint tubular exhaust manifold and down pipe 4in2in1.
Which is necessitated by the 2.1litre engine with flowed & ported head

You don't need to run a tubular manifold on a 2.1...ported head or otherwise.

2.1s make torque, not revs...so unless you are going full race, solid lifters and bigger valves ALONG with big cams, and going to 8000+ RPM, you can manage just fine on a standard set of downpipes and a ported exhaust manifold.

If you run that manifold you have you will have to run near solid engine mounts unless you fit some form of flexy joint.
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 22 January 2014, 15:50
I have a standard stanless flange that I made to fit a aftermarket manifold. I gasket matched it but made the inside diameter bigger to fit the aftermarket manifold.

I still have it as I sold the car.

Cant you make a flange? Its not hard.

I can cut the end off the old manifold and weld it to the end of the down pipe.
It needs the sort of diamond flat plate connector that you put 2 bolts through.


Ill dig it out later and take a pic for you.
Yes please
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 22 January 2014, 15:54

Its a Supersprint tubular exhaust manifold and down pipe 4in2in1.
Which is necessitated by the 2.1litre engine with flowed & ported head

You don't need to run a tubular manifold on a 2.1...ported head or otherwise.

2.1s make torque, not revs...so unless you are going full race, solid lifters and bigger valves ALONG with big cams, and going to 8000+ RPM, you can manage just fine on a standard set of downpipes and a ported exhaust manifold.

If you run that manifold you have you will have to run near solid engine mounts unless you fit some form of flexy joint.


Part race biggest cams with standard lifters.
JNL Racing that did the head for me advised I needed a tubular exhaust manifold.
This Supersprint does have a flexi connection - two pipes go down to one and there are two of them. Then it goes to a flexijoint which takes the remaining two pipes down to one.
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 22 January 2014, 15:57
This is what I have got

http://www.supersprint.com/en/IT/prod-c-7076-7086-8666-vw_golf_iii_gti_20_16v_150_hp__95_E28093E280BA__97.aspx
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Foreveryoungaus16v on 22 January 2014, 16:07

Its a Supersprint tubular exhaust manifold and down pipe 4in2in1.
Which is necessitated by the 2.1litre engine with flowed & ported head

You don't need to run a tubular manifold on a 2.1...ported head or otherwise.

2.1s make torque, not revs...so unless you are going full race, solid lifters and bigger valves ALONG with big cams, and going to 8000+ RPM, you can manage just fine on a standard set of downpipes and a ported exhaust manifold.

If you run that manifold you have you will have to run near solid engine mounts unless you fit some form of flexy joint.

The ABF wizard speaks :cool:
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: tweed on 22 January 2014, 16:48
You got to run that exhaust!  Once its done you will get solid lifters and a 8000rpm limit

Here is what I made.
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2825/12088607776_c07d9972e3_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/59145949@N03/12088607776/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/59145949@N03/12088607776/) by tweedub (http://www.flickr.com/people/59145949@N03/), on Flickr

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3715/12087948015_be4be7c19b_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/59145949@N03/12087948015/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/59145949@N03/12087948015/) by tweedub (http://www.flickr.com/people/59145949@N03/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 22 January 2014, 19:38
Yea thats it! It is 3 bolts just been out and checked! lol

I can go to 8000 with what I have.
I have seen the graphs of another less worked on engine that has done 8500!

Oh I am definitely going to fit that exhaust!
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 22 January 2014, 19:46
Still undecided about going decat.
Might just go to an exhaust place and get a length of tube and a reducer.
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: tweed on 22 January 2014, 21:22
Still undecided about going decat.
Might just go to an exhaust place and get a length of tube and a reducer.

Thats what I would do. Tell the mot tester and he will pass you. Find a young tester.

Luckily I have a few mates that test cars.
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 23 January 2014, 09:05
That isnt a problem  :wink:
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 23 January 2014, 12:33
What about heat wrapping??

Yes or No?

I'm inclined on the YES side
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Ess_Three on 23 January 2014, 13:26
Part race biggest cams with standard lifters.

What?
Part race? Utter crap...they are either road or race cams...and race cams need solid lifters and high compression to work.

So what are the specs of these 'part race' cams?


Quote
JNL Racing that did the head for me advised I needed a tubular exhaust manifold.

I doubt you 'need' it if you have a ported OEM cast manifold and ported OEM downpipes.


Quote
This Supersprint does have a flexi connection - two pipes go down to one and there are two of them. Then it goes to a flexijoint which takes the remaining two pipes down to one.

In that case, weld a cat flange on and you'll be good to go.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Ess_Three on 23 January 2014, 13:28


I can go to 8000 with what I have.
I have seen the graphs of another less worked on engine that has done 8500!

On standard hydraulic lifters?
8000 RPM?
Good luck with that.  :whistle:

And 8500 on standard hydraulic lifters?
Not as long as I have a hole in my arse!  :rolleyes:



Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 23 January 2014, 14:13


I can go to 8000 with what I have.
I have seen the graphs of another less worked on engine that has done 8500!

On standard hydraulic lifters?
8000 RPM?
Good luck with that.  :whistle:

And 8500 on standard hydraulic lifters?
Not as long as I have a hole in my arse!  :rolleyes:





As Bill at Badger5 to show you the graphs!
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 23 January 2014, 14:14
The part race does not relate to the cams.
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 23 January 2014, 14:23
The main bearings and big ends have race spec shells!  :grin:

The crank has been balanced and knife edged.
There are JE pistons and Integrated Engineering rods
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Ess_Three on 23 January 2014, 14:26
You know what?
Do what you want.
We've had conversations before where I point out that you don't know nearly as much as you think, and how you could be fed any old crap to relieve you of your hard earned money.
So fine...you go spend a fortune and end up WAY short of where you think you should be.

Things like cam spec, valve size, lifter selection, CR etc ARE the facts that dictate how efficiently the engine works and what you need or do not need to make it work.

My valve train is well under standard weight, and I'm using road cams...and I get valve float at 7300ish.
But you think you can rev to 8500 on standard stuff?
Best of luck.
It's not my engine that'll be going bang.
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Ess_Three on 23 January 2014, 14:27
The main bearings and big ends have race spec shells!  :grin:

The crank has been balanced and knife edged.
There are JE pistons and Integrated Engineering rods

Now we are getting somewhere...

What CR are you aiming for?

What cam specs?
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 23 January 2014, 14:45
Glenn when its all done and run in and fully mapped and tested I will reveal all.

You were saying you cant rev a 2.1 litre engine well when you work it out there aint much difference ratio wise to a standard engine.
The 95.5mm crank gives you a 3% increase
The 83.5mm bore gives a 2.4% increase.

I didnt say I was going to rev to 8000 I said I could if I wanted.
I am sure you have heard of the guy who did a home flowed head etc well that was tested at Badger5 and the graphs I saw said it revved to 8500
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 26 January 2014, 18:15
Well its fitted, well nearly!
Just need to sort out a fitting between the end of the down pipe and the straight pipe.
And get some heat wrap, which I definitely need!
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: tweed on 26 January 2014, 19:35
I would make a flange and weld it on as I did. You will be able to fit cat or de cat.

Also soak the wrap in water then wrap the exhaust.  It will dry tight. I also put stainless steel tie wraps every 10"
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 27 January 2014, 20:31
I would make a flange and weld it on as I did. You will be able to fit cat or de cat.

Also soak the wrap in water then wrap the exhaust.  It will dry tight. I also put stainless steel tie wraps every 10"

Getting that done tomorrow! :afro:
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: tweed on 27 January 2014, 20:55
Sweet
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 28 January 2014, 20:56
But have decided the manifold aint right so will be coming off again!
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: xionsolaris on 28 January 2014, 23:54
any chance of pics when complete or progress intrested  :shocked:
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 29 January 2014, 12:29
Have posted some progress pics up in my Dub Rides thread.

But if you mean pics of this problem, I havent taken any. Doubt you would see much in a shot from above and from underneath is a bit cramped!
Although if I am working on trying to move or adapt the steering rack then the car will have to get lifted up a lot higher!
Title: Re: Next problem - Exhaust!
Post by: Len on 06 February 2014, 13:43
SORTED!

Found a local chap on recommendation from Billy's brother and he has done a massive job on it!
has cost me but at least it will now fit!