GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Golf mk7 GTD/TDI => Topic started by: Duroo72 on 08 January 2014, 22:06
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Can anyone advise if it's worth fueling the GTD with BP Ultimate diesel?
My company fuel card limits me to BP filling stations - are there any benefits or performance gains that make it worthy?
Thanks in advance.
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Haven't tried ultimate yet, but normal BP is comparable to normal Shell, Esso and Sainsburys. As you have a fuel card and aren't paying for it yourself, why not try both and see which one works best for you?
Not all premium diesels are what they are cracked up to be - Shell V-power put me 10% down on power and economy because it's less calorific than standard due to its GTL content.
BP ultimate is likely to have more detergents and Cetane boosting additives, at the very least it'll be keeping your car's internals clean.
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I'm no expert at all, but so far, BP ultimate is providing my GTD with much better MPG.... but only compared to normal BP, normall esso, texaco , Normal Tesco and a shell ultimate (or super or whatever it is called)
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Define "much better" please.....2%, 5%. 10%?
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Ignoring the obvious poor MPG here, my average is 33-40 mpg on normal. And 38-48mpg on BP Ultimate.
For a direct comparison, i did a 7.2 mile trip on a full to brim Tesco normal (From cold) and got 37.9mpg, with the ultimate i got 44.1 (Both on ACC at 60mph approximatley 80% of the journey.
To me... that is quite a margin.
The temp was however 1.5 degrees warmer on the day i drove with ultimate.
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What's the current mark up at the pumps? Might try this..
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depending where you are Normal is 138.30p, and ultimate is 148.72p (average across the UK - http://www.petrolprices.com/) - however down by me, normal is nearer 136 and ultimate 141... so not too dissimilar.
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Filled upto today with the first tank of BP Ultimate so will report back on mpg, it's my second fill up since collecting the car Saturday when the original tank was filled with standard bp diesel so far my overall average consumption is sitting at 45mpg. I haven't red lined the car in the 600+ miles I've covered so far but driving styles have been very spirited with revs peaking around 4500rpm, I've driven in rush hour, town centres and on motorways at mixed speeds to give you some idea - I'm quite happy with the economy.
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ha ha another one these keep springing up!
Short answer no more performance or non that a daily driver can pick up on however I can personally say more mileage about 30-40 more but ONLY on motorway driving like a granny. This is stats from a GTI btw
However after paying £30,000 for a car an extra £4-5 at the pump I just put the good stuff in....
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After 2.5k on BP ultimate bar one half tank of regular still averaging around 42mpg (this average mpg hasn't really changed since new)
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One tank of BP Ultimate done - cant say I noticed any difference in power and the overall mpg since fill up was 44mpg so 1mpg down on the standard juice.
I've filled up again with Ultimate and will report back what this tank gives me.............
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we use shell nitro in my Tiguan and the wifes mk6 GTD and the fuel usage is less but we both think the cars run smoother and seem slightly quicker when we put the food town and although its about 6 ppl dearer we find its worth it ...
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we use shell nitro in my Tiguan and the wifes mk6 GTD and the fuel usage is less but we both think the cars run smoother and seem slightly quicker when we put the food town and although its about 6 ppl dearer we find its worth it ...
It'll be interesting to see the result of a discussion between you and Monkeyhanger... he was less than complementary about Shell Nitro Diesel....
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we use shell nitro in my Tiguan and the wifes mk6 GTD and the fuel usage is less but we both think the cars run smoother and seem slightly quicker when we put the food town and although its about 6 ppl dearer we find its worth it ...
It'll be interesting to see the result of a discussion between you and Monkeyhanger... he was less than complementary about Shell Nitro Diesel....
Not impressed with the Shell V-power Nitro diesel at all – as Corgi (and many other forum members )knows.
In summary, I decided to start my GTD on V-power, and for the first 3 tanks it was all I used. Never used the stuff before, save for a ½ tank fill-up on my Scirocco 170TDI.
It’s about 10% less calorific than regular diesel and was, as expected, giving me 10% fewer mpg and less power as a result. The power difference (low) was so pronounced that I was convinced there was something wrong with my GTD – it felt like it had about 160PS, as it was slower than my 170TDI Scirocco, but a smidge faster than my 140TDI Scirocco I had before that.
I had a look into tuning boxes because I was so disappointed with performance, had a tinker with them on a trial basis and decided that they weren’t for me while I have Bridgestone tyres (lack of grip in many situations was unreal with a bit extra power). I was getting a consistent 41/42mpg with the V-power in Sept, when the weather was considerably warmer, and as soon as I switched to regular diesel (Esso/Sainsburys), I got an immediate bump on my power and fuel economy which was then averaging 47mpg when not regenning, giving an overall average of 45mpg.
The car did seem to idle a little quieter on V-power and it regenned less frequently, but when it adds 20% to your fuelling costs per mile travelled (as a combination of higher price per litre and lower mpg), as well as knocking at least 10% off my power output, I decided it really wasn’t worth it. It seems a little cleaner (as you’d expect from the synthesised GTL portion of the blend) and more efficient in the combustion, given that it halved my regens. Considering its shorter average carbon chain, it’ll be less lubricative than regular diesel unless additives redress the balance and less potent.
Have a dabble in the regular stuff and see if your mpg changes vs Esso/BP/Shell fuelsave , you may be experiencing a bit of placebo blindness right now – “it costs more, so it must be better”.
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If you're using a fuel card, check whether Ultimate is discounted! My old BP card only discounted standard and got a bo!!ocking for using 2 tanks of ultimate! It *was* a Merc sprinter which took over £110 to fill up, but we got (i think) 3p per litre off of the standards forecourt prices..
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Lol thanks for the fuel card tip!! I guess I'll know when the boss pays the account this month......
I'm not that impressed with BP Ultimate I haven't seen enough gains with economy or performance to say its worth the extra not that im paying for it apart from the normal employee fuel contribution.
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BP DMATE (Ultimate Diesel) is not designed to give any major increase in performance at all.
The additives used are for engine protection/longevity as opposed to brute power, better MPG comes with a cleaner more efficient engine. A small increase in power can possibly result from the fact the additive is Exothermic, which basically means it can go boom easily. Probably why the raw additive is kept in buried tanks. :smiley:
Been using it in my MK5 GT TDi for about 3 years and plan to use it in my MK7 GTD when it arrives.
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BP DMATE (Ultimate Diesel) is not designed to give any major increase in performance at all.
The additives used are for engine protection/longevity as opposed to brute power, better MPG comes with a cleaner more efficient engine. A small increase in power can possibly result from the fact the additive is Exothermic, which basically means it can go boom easily. Probably why the raw additive is kept in buried tanks. :smiley:
Been using it in my MK5 GT TDi for about 3 years and plan to use it in my MK7 GTD when it arrives.
How much extra per litre is it? Might be better off using Millers Ecomax which does the same as premium fuel additives - Cetane boosting/detergents/lubricity enhancers, for a 60p cost per tank if you buy a 5L can of it - adds 1.2p/L to the cost of fuel.
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BP DMATE (Ultimate Diesel) is not designed to give any major increase in performance at all.
The additives used are for engine protection/longevity as opposed to brute power, better MPG comes with a cleaner more efficient engine. A small increase in power can possibly result from the fact the additive is Exothermic, which basically means it can go boom easily. Probably why the raw additive is kept in buried tanks. :smiley:
Been using it in my MK5 GT TDi for about 3 years and plan to use it in my MK7 GTD when it arrives.
How much extra per litre is it? Might be better off using Millers Ecomax which does the same as premium fuel additives - Cetane boosting/detergents/lubricity enhancers, for a 60p cost per tank if you buy a 5L can of it - adds 1.2p/L to the cost of fuel.
Since getting my GTD I'd being using BP Ultimate most of the time. However, I really can't notice any difference over standard fuels. This is unlike my Octavia vRS TDI and remapped Mondeo Mk4 2.2 TDI that loved BP Ultimate.
I've been meaning to report on this but I've been double-dosing Millers Ecomax for the last 4 tanks or so and there is a definite difference! I can't say economy is better but smoothness, responsive and grunt is noticeably improved :evil:
Once I've finished my last bottle of it I'll look into getting the 5L can. As you say MH, financially it makes much more sense than premium fuels, and there's a noticeable difference. The only hassle is remembering to add it at each fill up and it does stink if you get it on your hands!
I'd be interested if anyone else has tried Ecomax and are seeing the same sort of benefits?
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Since getting my GTD I'd being using BP Ultimate most of the time. However, I really can't notice any difference over standard fuels. This is unlike my Octavia vRS TDI and remapped Mondeo Mk4 2.2 TDI that loved BP Ultimate.
I've been meaning to report on this but I've been double-dosing Millers Ecomax for the last 4 tanks or so and there is a definite difference! I can't say economy is better but smoothness, responsive and grunt is noticeably improved :evil:
Once I've finished my last bottle of it I'll look into getting the 5L can. As you say MH, financially it makes much more sense than premium fuels, and there's a noticeable difference. The only hassle is remembering to add it at each fill up and it does stink if you get it on your hands!
I'd be interested if anyone else has tried Ecomax and are seeing the same sort of benefits?
Cheapest place I saw Millers (and bought it) was Wilco direct. It was £60 a can (5L) + postage, but I found a discount code that wiped out the postage costs. It is £69.99 right now. Worth shopping around.
I bought a 5L can of Millers in Nov and i’ve been double dosing after a single dose didn’t seem to do much (as you are advised to do in the winter, in the summer double dosing is a waste), and I have noticed the same improvements (smoothness, response, grunt) as you. Perhaps the Millers addition has been the main reason I haven’t seen much spread in mpg over the various fuels being used – perhaps it levels the playing field. When you double dose on a £60 can in the winter, it ends up adding 2.4p/L, but when a premium fuel ends up costing 8p a litre more to do the same job then it’s cost effective.
In any case, you can certainly tell the difference without it. When I filled up with Jet yesterday (because I knew I didn’t have enough diesel to get me home after work), I didn’t have any Millers with me (I usually have 2 polypropylene 50mL graduated centrifuge tubes with the stuff in the boot, kept in a small black bag because the stuff is light-sensitive), and the car felt (comparatively) like a sluggish bag of spanners (it’s not that bad, but you can tell the difference) and I only got 43mpg with no regenning. Put my 100mL in when I got home last night, the stuff has mixed overnight, and this morning the car felt far better and did 45mpg on the way to work.
I hope you weren’t doing BP ultimate and Millers - now that would have been a complete waste of money. It is the newest Millers Power ecomax that I have been using.
It does make quite a stink if you spill any (very difficult not to when you’re at the start of a 5L can). It’s like a less intense Pyridine type smell (if anyone has ever work in a lab with Pyridine they will know how evil it smells).
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Yep, I've just been using any old fuel now that I'm using the Millers :smiley: I've found the effect is noticeable quite quickly i.e. within 10 - 20 miles of adding it. None of this having to wait 2 - 3 tank fulls etc.
The centrifuge tubes looking interesting. How are you decanting into them from the 5L can?
Are you happy with the performance of yours now? Mines now got 9k on it and is nicely loosened up... and with the Millers it's become a real hoot. Although I keep thinking a tuning box would be the icing on the cake!
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The centrifuge tubes are because the missus can get them from work, they’re 50mL (handy for a normal measure), they’re graduated, got quite a wide opening, a good seal, and most importantly – the Millers doesn’t rot them like it does with the polystyrene based plastics (your typical hard/brittle plastic containers that break like glass when hit – Millers will eat right through those like Acetone.
The Can has an extendable plastic nozzle which you pull out by the cap and it’s about ¾” diameter, so not too bad for pouring into the tubes which are just over 1” wide, you get a slight drip down the nozzle (we are talking 3 drops, not a lot).
The performance is much closer to expectations since ditching the V-power for normal diesel and dosing with Millers – still doesn’t feel any faster than the Scirocco, I do think it was punching well above its weight. Tuning box (DTUK) is a real possibility, the insurance implications are looking very favourable and I’ve got the money for the box this month after doing some good ebay trading. If they’re open tomorrow I may well take a look as I’ll be within 10 miles of their place tomorrow morning.
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Not long until winter ends and we will see an MPG gain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_diesel_fuel
:smiley:
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BP DMATE (Ultimate Diesel) is not designed to give any major increase in performance at all.
The additives used are for engine protection/longevity as opposed to brute power, better MPG comes with a cleaner more efficient engine. A small increase in power can possibly result from the fact the additive is Exothermic, which basically means it can go boom easily. Probably why the raw additive is kept in buried tanks. :smiley:
Been using it in my MK5 GT TDi for about 3 years and plan to use it in my MK7 GTD when it arrives.
How much extra per litre is it? Might be better off using Millers Ecomax which does the same as premium fuel additives - Cetane boosting/detergents/lubricity enhancers, for a 60p cost per tank if you buy a 5L can of it - adds 1.2p/L to the cost of fuel.
It really depends on the station and area, I think here in Norn Iron its 4-5ppl more than standard.
"In any case, you can certainly tell the difference without it. When I filled up with Jet yesterday (because I knew I didn’t have enough diesel to get me home after work), I didn’t have any Millers with me (I usually have 2 polypropylene 50mL graduated centrifuge tubes with the stuff in the boot, kept in a small black bag because the stuff is light-sensitive), and the car felt (comparatively) like a sluggish bag of spanners (it’s not that bad, but you can tell the difference) and I only got 43mpg with no regenning. Put my 100mL in when I got home last night, the stuff has mixed overnight, and this morning the car felt far better and did 45mpg on the way to work."
If thats a general warning and not a quality warning on the packaging I would definitely be making sure it stays away from sun light and heat sources. The raw additives that we have are buried because if the temperature of the liquid starts increasing it will reach a point that the exothermic reaction starts and it will begin to generate its own heat. Once at that point theres only one outcome and that is generally not very good. Not 100% sure of the flash point, but you dont want to be near any sort of quantity of it when that happens. I definitely wouldnt be keeping it in the car. :undecided:
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Numbered Jester:When I said "kept in the car" I meant literally pouring some into the tubes just before my journey that would see me fill up (not that clear on my part), or get some made up and put in the car the night before the morning I would be filling up. The black bag is as much for making sure the stinky stuff is contained as for photosensitivity. Not sure why I make it a black bag. The stuff isn't that unstable - it'd probably be fine for days without degradation.
The can lists it as a pretty strong irritant and nothing more, it's not particularly volatile - I suppose it has to be comparably stable to diesel otherwise you'd get it combusting way before the diesel in the compression stroke and causing real problems. I only know it's light sensitive because someone on Amazon (looking at the reviews when I was shopping around) moaned they got their 5L in a can (as it came for me) instead of a plastic bottle (as pictured in the style of a 5L plastic oil bottle) and the manufacturer said it was to protect the product from light.
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Haha, good job on that. Not that it was ever going to be as ropey to work with as the raw stuff.
To give an idea about the raw additive we use. I think theres about 1.3L of it injected into a 7500L truck compartment.
Mind you, some time later this year the additive is changing to some "green" version. Probably to keep the eco-mentalists happy.
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NumberedJester: Millers (and probably all the equivalents) is massively toxic to aquatic life, so they're probably doing something to improve that with the new version.
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As I've run out of Millers my last couple of tanks have been on standard BP. The car feels noticeably more lethargic and less smooth in comparison.
I've just ordered 5L from Wilco Direct using a 10% voucher code from http://www.dontpayfull.com/at/wilcodirect.co.uk (http://www.dontpayfull.com/at/wilcodirect.co.uk). £62.99 inc free delivery seems pretty good as that makes it about half the price of the 500ml bottles :smiley:
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As I've run out of Millers my last couple of tanks have been on standard BP. The car feels noticeably more lethargic and less smooth in comparison.
I've just ordered 5L from Wilco Direct using a 10% voucher code from http://www.dontpayfull.com/at/wilcodirect.co.uk (http://www.dontpayfull.com/at/wilcodirect.co.uk). £62.99 inc free delivery seems pretty good as that makes it about half the price of the 500ml bottles :smiley:
Andy: That's as good as an offer as i've seen recently - 5L is by far the cheapest way to go. You can definitely feel the difference without it.
Filled up from almost empty last night and didn't have any Millers to put in until I got home. The difference is apparent. I have been adding 100mL to a tank in the winter, where ambient temp is usually between 0 and 5C, in the Summer it'll probably be 50mL, and yesterday I added 80mL just because it has warmed up a bit recently.
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I never looked into Millers until reading this thread and you guys have now convinced me to go and buy a bottle!
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Do people tend to add this prior to filling up, or to a full tank?
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Do people tend to add this prior to filling up, or to a full tank?
I fill up and run the tank almost empty, and then I add the Millers at fill-up time, or after a fill up.
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I had to laugh looking at the Millers blurb
"User Benefits New pleasant citrus fragrance" :grin:
Its absolutely disgusting. :sick:
If you guys use the 5L containers, what is the best way to store and transport the amount your going to stick in the car?
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I had to laugh looking at the Millers blurb
"User Benefits New pleasant citrus fragrance" :grin:
Its absolutely disgusting. :sick:
If you guys use the 5L containers, what is the best way to store and transport the amount your going to stick in the car?
I have 2 x 50mL graduated polythene centrifuge tubes. I put 100mL in a tank in the winter, will put 50mL per tank in the summer, but right now i'm putting about 70mL in. You don't have to stick it in on fill-up, but if you have it in the car when you do fill up, best chuck it in and then fill to get an instant mix. If you stick it in after your last trip of the day when getting home, it will mix overnight easily.
The stuff does have an evil smell. As a chemist, I have smelt many nasty chemicals, but this stuff is pretty bad, not as bad as pyridine, but close!