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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Waspy on 04 January 2014, 21:48

Title: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Waspy on 04 January 2014, 21:48
So my beloved mk2 8v is burning a fair amount of oil. It has done 188,000, but more to the point is that I am using it everyday and covering a lot of miles with my job which I hadn't expected when I bought the car. In an ideal world I would have the car for pleasure and have a run around to clock the miles on. But right now I just can't afford to run two cars.

So, brings me to my question.
Do I get it fixed, which is going to be piston rings and seals. Well, that's my guess on an engine with that milage. I tried a compression test but the results were between 2 and 4 bar, so I guess I did it wrong. I dont know the cost of this, but I am confident I can't do it myself. Alternatively a recon engine would be nice, but it seems that would be ~£1000. Which I don't mind too much as I plan it to be a car for life.... Providing I can make it run that long. The real comparison between these is if piston rings and seals will give another 100k miles, do I really need a whole new engine?

With the above costs considered. I could sell mine, use the money I would have used to mend the current one and buy what should be almost a minter... But it may actually have issues (better the devil you know?)

Finally I can get mine tuned by someone who knows what they are doing and just keep throwing oil it in until I can afford another car (a few years realistically)...

Opinions? Also can't find how to do a pole on the mobile version, but I'll add one when I can.

Cheers guys
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Lewy on 04 January 2014, 21:50
Fix, or ABF it.....
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Waspy on 04 January 2014, 22:02
Oh yeah, ABF was an option, but I can't get insurance on it, so that's out. One vote for fix...
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Craigwilson on 04 January 2014, 22:32
I take it the body and chassis is solid?, worth keeping, id fix it
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Gambit on 04 January 2014, 23:05
Stick a mk3 2.0 8v bottom end on it. Least hassle and cost. And insurance wont know anything about it as it still looks like a 1.8 8v in the engine bay
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Waspy on 05 January 2014, 12:18
Bodywork is good. I love the car, so selling would only be if it made perfect financial sense.

Interesting thought about the bottom end. Of course it could throw up similar problems a few thousand miles down the line as it will probably have come from a high milage engine anyway, no?

Added a pole.
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Sgt_Lemon on 05 January 2014, 13:32
I'm voting for 2L bottom end
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: VW BUSH on 05 January 2014, 14:01
I say kill a Mk3 to keep it going, use the 2.0l 8v gti as a doner if you cant afford an ABF.
You can pick up fairly low mile failed rot boxes for under £300, not just the engine you can use either.
Worst thing I ever did was not fix my last Mk2 and let it go :cry:
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Waspy on 05 January 2014, 14:24
Wow, a few of you supporting the 2.0 bottom end. Thanks for the input guys. However, if I replace the bottom end and its just the valve seals ill still have the problem. So I guess the solution is to have the valve seals done and while im at it stick in a 2.0 bottom end for longevity...
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Sgt_Lemon on 05 January 2014, 15:32
You will have the current 8v head off anyway if you put a mk3 bottom end on. Easy enough to replace the valve stem oil seals then. You could even give your head a good clean and reseat your valves. If it was me doing it I would clean up the bottom end too when it's out the donor so the thing is all fresh and new when you put it in.
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: gazareth on 05 January 2014, 15:47
the valve seals can be done without removing the head so that's what I would go for first. 9 times out of ten that's the reason for oil burning anyway. bottom ends rarely give any trouble. oil sure aint going to get any cheaper.
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Craigwilson on 05 January 2014, 15:52
Theres a 2.0 mk3 gti 8v in a Glasgow scrapyard if anyone's close and wants it.
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Gambit on 05 January 2014, 16:07
You could pick up a 2.0 bottom end for as little as 50, throw a set of bearing and rings in it for another 100 if you really want. Then drive it for another 100k mile
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Waspy on 05 January 2014, 16:43
You could pick up a 2.0 bottom end for as little as 50, throw a set of bearing and rings in it for another 100 if you really want. Then drive it for another 100k mile

Im not really at a stage where I would be confident changing bearing or rings tbh.
I could really do with knowing what my actual compression results are. Havnt a clue why it was chucking out such low readings...

Might give the valve seals a go and see if it improves. The bottom end could be fine at the end of the day, its just whether it will stay fine for the next few years.
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Gambit on 05 January 2014, 17:13
Does it smoke under acceleration?

Compression test usually better with two people.
Take all plugs out
stick compression tester in plug 1
Crank over car for about ten secs WITH throttle wide open

record and move on two next cylinder

compare all 4 results.
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Waspy on 05 January 2014, 23:01
Haven't been able to see if it smokes under acceleration. If it sits and idles it smokes. On rare occasions it won't smoke at all. But 90% of the time it smokes on idle, be it on startup or traffic. But like I say I haven't seen if it smokes on acceleration.

That's exactly how I did the test as well, had two of us and we did exactly what you said. Might be a faulty tester tbh.
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Gambit on 05 January 2014, 23:21
If it smokes on idle, and startup etc then it would point to valvestem seals

as for compression, ideally you want 180psi odd which is a fair bit more than 4 bar so id get a new tester!
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Wayne on 06 January 2014, 13:43
Stick a mk3 2.0 8v bottom end on it. Least hassle and cost. And insurance wont know anything about it as it still looks like a 1.8 8v in the engine bay

They should be told, non declared engine change is a major problem if they find out.
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Sgt_Lemon on 06 January 2014, 17:31
Stick a mk3 2.0 8v bottom end on it. Least hassle and cost. And insurance wont know anything about it as it still looks like a 1.8 8v in the engine bay

They should be told, non declared engine change is a major problem if they find out.
How would they ever find out?
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Gambit on 06 January 2014, 19:44
Exactly itd need to be a pretty sharp eyed insurance person to spot a 2.0 bottom end
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: matty1664 on 06 January 2014, 19:49
if you are getting smokey start ups and idle is it possible that you may have a leak in your head gasket?
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Wayne on 06 January 2014, 20:49
How would they ever find out?

Exactly itd need to be a pretty sharp eyed insurance person to spot a 2.0 bottom end

If they have reason to they will find out, if that means removing the engine and checking they will do, it is never worth the risk and to suggest the idea is nuts.

If you cannot afford the insurance to cover all the mods tthen do not bother, some insurance companies are even going as far to scan forums to see if mods have been carried out.

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: gazareth on 06 January 2014, 23:53
best idea is to build up the guts of a 2 litre inside the 1.8 block :wink:
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Sgt_Lemon on 07 January 2014, 08:37
How would they ever find out?

Exactly itd need to be a pretty sharp eyed insurance person to spot a 2.0 bottom end

If they have reason to they will find out, if that means removing the engine and checking they will do, it is never worth the risk and to suggest the idea is nuts.

If you cannot afford the insurance to cover all the mods tthen do not bother, some insurance companies are even going as far to scan forums to see if mods have been carried out.

 :rolleyes:
I was asking more out of curiosity, what reason would they have to strip a car completely back? Also is there no catch for claiming ignorance? As they look the same somebody could easily buy a car with a 2L bottom end without knowing the mod and not tell an insurance company.
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Wayne on 07 January 2014, 10:50
I was asking more out of curiosity, what reason would they have to strip a car completely back? Also is there no catch for claiming ignorance? As they look the same somebody could easily buy a car with a 2L bottom end without knowing the mod and not tell an insurance company.

From memory some 2.0 blocks were stamped 2.0 so not hard to tell.
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Foreveryoungaus16v on 07 January 2014, 11:24
How would they ever find out?

Exactly itd need to be a pretty sharp eyed insurance person to spot a 2.0 bottom end

If they have reason to they will find out, if that means removing the engine and checking they will do, it is never worth the risk and to suggest the idea is nuts.

If you cannot afford the insurance to cover all the mods tthen do not bother, some insurance companies are even going as far to scan forums to see if mods have been carried out.

 :rolleyes:

I agree. You will be a stupid Numb nut if you don't let the insurance company know. Bit thick really. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: molegti on 07 January 2014, 12:33
The 2 litre block is taller too.
 
I'd go for replacing the valve stem seals which wont cost much. If that doesn't solve the problem then a second 1.8 engine isn't going to be very expensive. I appreciate your concern about mileage but unless its had a hard life the bottom should be okay.
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Waspy on 07 January 2014, 23:08
My insurance company would write my car off if a yob with a set of keys decided to key it... I'm not sure how much investigating would go on... Anyway, that's not really the point of this thread chaps. The advice so far has been pretty solid. First things first is to get the seals sorted, although maybe after buying a new compression test! If it turns out to be the rings, which is looking unlikely from what you guys have said, I will more than likely stick a better 1.8 block in. If I'm feeling like an extra 200ccs then I will go down that route! Maybe I will stamp 1.8 on it, who knows!
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Craigwilson on 08 January 2014, 01:20
and how on earth will you stamp it
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Waspy on 08 January 2014, 07:12
and how on earth will you stamp it

A chisel and a big hammer mate...
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Waspy on 12 January 2014, 16:35
Got the compression done today with a new tester:

C1: 11 bar/ 160psi
C2: 11 bar/ 160psi
C3: 13.8 bar/ 200psi
C4: 12 bar/ 174 psi

So something isn't right, but I don't know what? Does that suggest gasket problems or?
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: gazareth on 12 January 2014, 19:27
could be a gasket leak between cyl 1 and 2. the head would have to come off whatever the cause. I would just try and find a decent 2nd hand engine with less miles. or take off head and get it redone. and at same time hone the bores and fit new rings and big end shells. don't even have to take engine out.
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Waspy on 12 January 2014, 20:12
Well I was thinking about getting the head redone, so when its off ill redo the gasket obviously. I would ideally avoid bottom end work if it doesnt absolutley need it...
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: gazareth on 13 January 2014, 00:40
there is a digifant head on ebay for £40. why not buy that and get it rebuilt? then its just a case of swapping it over on a weekend. keeps you mobile while you get the head rebuilt.
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Diamond Hell on 13 January 2014, 11:42
Find a local engineering firm who will skim the head, pressure test it and fit new stem seals first.

Then get the head off and take it to them.

Get the block clean and look it over, then get the head back on with a new cambelt and head gasket.

All that shouldn't cost a lot more than £50.

If it's still using oil you have a knackered bottom end that you didn't spot.

Unfortunately there is no guarantee that a 2.0 bottom end from a scrapyard will be any better than what you have!

As previously, tell your insurance company if you rebuild with 2.0 as they have 2.0 CAST into the block - not something you can chisel off or change to 1.8!

They are only likely come after you with a thorough inspection if you hurt someone else/someone else's stuff - your car might be worth nothing but the damage you can do to other property or people could cost them seven figures.
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Waspy on 13 January 2014, 19:26
Just to clarify I was joking about taking a hammer and chisel to anything!

Not a bad idea buying an ebay special and getting it done. Do you think getting it gas flowed or anything while I'm at it is worth it?

Thanks for the advice guys
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: Diamond Hell on 13 January 2014, 19:34
Not a bad idea buying an ebay special and getting it done. Do you think getting it gas flowed or anything while I'm at it is worth it?

Only bother doing it if you're sending it to a good engine builder, who has his own flowbench and can deliver before and after flow rates.  JNL Racing did my Crossflow head a few years back.
Title: Re: Sell, Fix, or buy lots of oil?
Post by: gazareth on 13 January 2014, 23:54
Just to clarify I was joking about taking a hammer and chisel to anything!

Not a bad idea buying an ebay special and getting it done. Do you think getting it gas flowed or anything while I'm at it is worth it?

Thanks for the advice guys
it all depends how much you want to spend and how much extra power your after. that's why its good to have a spare head to rebuild at your leisure while you still have car on the road.