GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: Shizzle on 03 January 2014, 08:30
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Is there another car that has the same thread size but uses longer bolts the standard mk3 bolts are very short and would not risk using spacers with them.
Im only using 5mm spacers so dont need to be to much longer.
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Surely the standard bolts are long enough to accommodate an extra 5mm? Failing that they've readily available on eBay in a multitude if lengths.
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I would agree that if only using a 5mm spacer that standard bolts will suffice
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just the standards bolts look so short and only just about look safe for standard wheels but rather be safe than sorry and buy longer ones.
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Just dont get them too long or you'll risk hitting the ABS sensor or ring.
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Il have to measure see how long i need before any purchasing.
Thanks for the reply's.
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3mm or 5mm spacer will be fine with standard bolts
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Can I ask does the same apply to adaptors? I'm fitting some Porsche teledial's to mine when they turn up with adaptors I have three sets 15mm, 20m and 25mm. Will I need extended bolts?
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Can I ask does the same apply to adaptors? I'm fitting some Porsche teledial's to mine when they turn up with adaptors I have three sets 15mm, 20m and 25mm. Will I need extended bolts?
Yes you will need extended bolts plus also check and see if you need radius or taper bolts.
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I used 5mm spacers on my gti and measured threads etc. Standard bolts are just enough with 5mm spacer :wink:
Can I ask does the same apply to adaptors? I'm fitting some Porsche teledial's to mine when they turn up with adaptors I have three sets 15mm, 20m and 25mm. Will I need extended bolts?
You will need longer adapter bolts yes, but standard wheel bolts.
The adapter bolts are a bit specialised and should come with the adaptors. Make sure you ask.
As said find out what type of bolt you need for the porsche wheels (radius or taper) but you only need standard length
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If buying adapter plates surely these come with the correct bolts to fit to the hub?
Then you just use you normal wheel bolts
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I wouldn't use std size bolts with a 5mm spacer,ive tried it and its really not quite enough,the bolt literally turns 3 times before its tight ,just get some bolts 5mm longer than std to be safe.
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Yeh when I looked a while back they seem tiny for wheel bolts I will look around was hoping another car might use a little longer bolts so could just go scrappy and spend couple of quid.
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A 5mm spacer will be absolutely fine with standard bolts.
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Just thought when I got my wheels I also got tapered wheel bolts :embarrassed:
I got 5/6 turns which is about right.
My bad sorry.
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5/6 turns yes that's ok but I was getting 3 1/2 at best with std bolts on bbs rx2 and didnt feel confident with that amount,so got rid of the poxy 5mm spacers and got some hubcentric 25mm for the rear and 20mm for the front all with longer bolts
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Just thought when I got my wheels I also got tapered wheel bolts :embarrassed:
I got 5/6 turns which is about right.
My bad sorry.
Where did you get the longer wheel bolts from eBay can be difficult sometimes when trying to find just a slightly longer than standard bolt.
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Wheels come with free fitting kit. So I asked for 15mm hubcentric spacers and 5mm spacers. Bolts came with it.
Look here. Depending on your wheel you need taper or radius.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=vw+long+wheel+bolts&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xvw+long+wheel+bolts+35&_nkw=vw+long+wheel+bolts+35&_sacat=0 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=vw+long+wheel+bolts&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xvw+long+wheel+bolts+35&_nkw=vw+long+wheel+bolts+35&_sacat=0)
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Thank you that's very helpful. :nerd:
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Fyi
Golden rule is one and a half times the diameter located in the female thread, this can vary on application and thread type but is a good place to start when thinking is this bolt long enough.
Also if you know the pitch you know how far it enters per rotation.
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aahh brilliant thank you! the adapter comes with the bolts and they were fitted to a mk3 before so they should all be the correct length!
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Fyi
Golden rule is one and a half times the diameter located in the female thread, this can vary on application and thread type but is a good place to start when thinking is this bolt long enough.
Also if you know the pitch you know how far it enters per rotation.
Hey? So standard 14mm bolt at 1.5 its diameter is 21mm of thread in the disc. Or have I read that wrong?
Standard bolts only go in about 14/15mm
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Well when I ran my 17x8 Monsa's with 215/40 rubber I used 5mm spacers and standard bolts and was fine!
Must have done over 10,000 miles with those wheels on!
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Fyi
Golden rule is one and a half times the diameter located in the female thread, this can vary on application and thread type but is a good place to start when thinking is this bolt long enough.
Also if you know the pitch you know how far it enters per rotation.
Hey? So standard 14mm bolt at 1.5 its diameter is 21mm of thread in the disc. Or have I read that wrong?
Standard bolts only go in about 14/15mm
Yeah that's about it, its a rule for determining bolt lengths without working out the loading, materials and application etc.
You should not really intrude lower than the diameter or design your housing in such a way this is possible, and obviously not use say a 14mm bolt into a tapped thickness of 6mm or have bolts hanging through excessively on applications like a hub....
Point is that if you are x 1.5 then you are safe, x 1.0 and you have the same engagement as dia so match the location area to the area under tensile load (it gets really boring and complicated here due to load and material calculations so one rule does not fit all)
With the standard depth being 14/15mm and calculated at that to be safe a 5.0 mm plain spacer reduces this factor by nearly 50%, in the case of conversion spacers your bolt to the hub from the adaptor should have 14mm engagement into the hub with at least the same grade bolts as the original vw part to match the original calculation.
How far this is stressed by the non standard wheel offset and thickness of spacer is open to question and I doubt most take this into consideration when manufacturing or supplying spacers.
The bolt through the wheel to the spacer when fitting 4/5 stud conversion spacers you would think needs to have at least the same engagement in this case 14mm...
If you compare Ali tensile/shearing strength to Cast/Wrought/Rolled steel you can quickly see how much weaker it is and why a x 1.5 rule would stand you in good stead.....
I would have reservations fitting any Ali 4/5 stud conversion/large offset spacers if I could not see that this had been tested and proved in some way.
In short for the plain spacing of 5.0mm you should use longer bolts if it reduces the engagement i.e if all the 14mm is in contact and not clear out the back (and only ever use hub centric spacers as tensile bolts are not designed primarily to take shearing force), 3mm spacers only reduce engagement by 20% at worst so you could argue to yourself they are safe but how the police/insurers take this and any mods like this is open question and circumstance.
I have run 3 mm spacers on standard bolts to clear a calliper upgrade on my old Mk2 no probs and binned it pretty bad without the wheels coming off :grin:
Hope all that kind of makes sense, I've glossed over a whole load of stuff I cant fully remember without going over books in the office and drawing you a sketch or two :smiley:
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Makes perfect sense.
Its at length for a reason, reason being strength obviously, so anything less then its questionable on safe.
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Interesting stuff.
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Makes perfect sense.
Its at length for a reason, reason being strength obviously, so anything less then its questionable on safe.
Well yes exactly, but there is always a margin of safety for the forces the bolt takes to what it is fixed into etc etc which a 3.0 mm spacer would probably fit into and 5.0mm would probably be out of in reference to the metric fine M14 VW use.
I oversee the design and build a lot of heavy duty kit which is not under scrutiny like aero stuff but would leave me high and dry if it failed and caused injury, this is just one rule I use to protect myself from a reaming and others being crushed or mangled.
I never take a chance as its my signature on the design approval not my companies.
Commercial/Military Aero stuff is mind blowing hats off to those design guys