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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Golf mk7 GTD/TDI => Topic started by: davyk31 on 02 January 2014, 15:16
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I know its quite a personal decision but whats the general consesus on whether to go DSG or not on a GTD. When I had my Mk V GTI DSG seemed to be raved about but now on coming back to the forum I'm seeing more negative opinions on the DSG.
We will be coming from having an auto car so the DSG holds an attraction for that reason, a lot of the driving will be town work/school run where again an auto makes a lot of sense. Guess there is a bit of a price to pay in terms of economy and emissions on top of the increased purchase price but just wondered is the DSG not as attractive option now as it used to be?
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Dsg had a coast function which helps economy.
It's personal preference. I didn't think it was anything special, just a clumsy auto with paddles. Yes you get launch control etc but I wanted a manual, hence opting for a gtd not an a class.
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This is why it's so personal. C2K was obviously not overly impressed, but I had my first DSG on my previous Scirocco and loved it. It was the first option I ticked on the GTD as I think it suits it's character really well.
The Diesels have a relatively limited rev band (compared to petrols), and it's very easy when setting off to find yourself near the red line in first unless you snatch quickly for second gear when rolling (I remember this from my MK5 Golf GT 2.0 TDI). With a DSG gearbox, it just handles the gears so much better and makes smooth fuss free getaways so much more relaxed.
Coupled to that, most of my life is spent churning though rush hour traffic with the inevitable crawls and the DSG just makes this so easy. I guess if I lived somewhere like Scotland and didn't have many hold ups and had some fantastic roads to regularly blast up and down, I might (just might), be persuaded back to a manual, but as it stands, I can't see me ever going back to one.
The downsides are obvious that it's a considerable chuck of money to spend (that could be spent on other options or just saved on the purchase price), it needs a oil change service that the manuals don't, and is obviously more complicated, so whilst the 6 speed DSG wet units seem pretty bullet proof (touch wood), statistically, there is more to go wrong.
As I said at the start, it's a deeply personal thing and one that only you can really answer, but I have no issues with those that prefer a manual over a DSG, and it's their choice (just not mine).
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I used to have DSG on my MK6 GTI and loved it so when deciding to get a MK7 GTD my discussion with the dealer was to do with Diesels and DSG as I presumed it would be more suitable on a petrol engine. Anyway the dealer said DSG was great on a diesel and offered to take me out in the MK7 GT TDI 150 as when I ordered there were no GTD's in the country.
Went out for a wee blast and loved it, instantly knew I was definitely going for the DSG again. Anyway after 5 months if waiting I have the car and love it. The DSG gearbox is even better than on the MK6 GTI.
From me all I can say is if you liked it on the GTI you will also like it on the GTD.
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Always an alternative view and mine is the manual GTD. I tried both. Unless I was doing lots of town or traffic then I wouldn't have DSG with a diesel. My view is diesel is rather boring and a manual spices up the driving experience a little whereas DSG in the GTI is engaging enough. I run an X3 auto and had an AMG 55 7G tronic previously but the auto frustrated in the end. Acid test if you don't use the paddles diesel or do petrol then ... However I fully get why many favour DSG.
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Never driven a VW DSG as my GTI was manual. Have howver had auto cars since probably about 2007 now so both my wife and I are very used to a full manaul. Our cars at present are both BMW Autos, does the DSG drive much different to a tradional full auto?
Go and try one is obviously the simple answer but no local dealers have anything to drive in decent engine and DSG.
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How does DSG affect the resale value? I guess again its personal, some will want it and others will want manual. HOwever given its a good bit extra to buy is that extra retained at resale time?
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Had 2 DSG cars and wouldn't describe either of them as clumsy. If you've never had one before then give it a go...
Other than a 335i or m3 etc which have BMW's version of DSG called DCT, then you probably had the ancient but reliable Steptronic fluid coupling. DSG uses proper clutches not a torque converter to transfer power from the engine to the wheels. I'd prefer a proper connection between engine and transmission.
The DSG is perhaps not as smooth at lower speeds but you probably wont notice it, maybe its better in the MK7.
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How does DSG affect the resale value? I guess again its personal, some will want it and others will want manual. HOwever given its a good bit extra to buy is that extra retained at resale time?
It will obviously be worth more than a manual model but how much is a tricky one to predict? I guess £800-1000 more than a manual equivelent?
DSG vs Manual is a on going saga with many different cars, its personal preference.
I opted for a manual but can see myself moving to a DSG someday when manuals are extinct. :cry:
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How does DSG affect the resale value? I guess again its personal, some will want it and others will want manual. HOwever given its a good bit extra to buy is that extra retained at resale time?
Buy the car with what you would like not with what someone else would like, either transmission will sell.
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How does DSG affect the resale value? I guess again its personal, some will want it and others will want manual. HOwever given its a good bit extra to buy is that extra retained at resale time?
It will obviously be worth more than a manual model but how much is a tricky one to predict? I guess £800-1000 more than a manual equivelent?
DSG vs Manual is a on going saga with many different cars, its personal preference.
I opted for a manual but can see myself moving to a DSG someday when manuals are extinct. :cry:
My dad’s GFV on the finance example (neither of us ended up taking out VW finance, but it’s a good indicator of retained value) was £300 higher than mine for his GTD, only difference in spec is his is DSG and mine is manual* - £1420 spend returns £300 after 3 years. He’s quite happy to lose £1100 on it to have a DSG box. He loves it, I loathe it – personal preference, I don’t like the decisions it makes with gear changes most of the time.
* He got free pearl paint when they changed his colour in an ordering cock-up, but that was never specified on the finance example.
You are never going to to see £800-1000 back on a £1400 option.
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I loathe it – personal preference, I don’t like the decisions it makes with gear changes most of the time.
This does now seem to be a common issue with DSG - I have realised that part of the reason for this opinion is that DSG is one of the few autoboxes that tells you what gear it has selected in auto mode. As a consequesnce owners start to fixate on whether its D3, D4, etc. For those expericencing this angst I would suggest putting a bit of black electrical tape over the gear number bit in the MFD and just accept the systems choice - a lot less stressfu!
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I loathe it – personal preference, I don’t like the decisions it makes with gear changes most of the time.
Agreed. That's annoyed me with other types of auto boxes too. As long as my left leg and arm keep working it's manual every time.
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Still haven't a clue whether to go manual or DSG and can't find a DSG to try locally.
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I opted for manual but next time around I may go for DSG due to the GTD's terrible traction in the lower gears and wet conditions - can anybody confirm if the DSG lets you accelerate quickly from standstill without tramping or wheelspin especially in wet and damp conditions?
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Duroo: Although we haven’t confirmed it yet with someone who was so pissed off with their tyres they bit the bullet and bought 4 x Michelin PS3s or Goodyear Eagle Asy (I came close), I’d say it’s a fair bet that traction specific to tramping is down to VWs OEM tyre choices and not which gearbox you have. If you start getting into launch control etc on the DSG I would still think that most people with a GTD on some of the OEM tyre possibilities are going to see plenty of tramping.
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I opted for manual but next time around I may go for DSG due to the GTD's terrible traction in the lower gears and wet conditions - can anybody confirm if the DSG lets you accelerate quickly from standstill without tramping or wheelspin especially in wet and damp conditions?
Tramping is still very much prominent with the DSG - the 'anti-tramp' system appears to sleep a lot of the time :undecided: Stick her in to sport, and TC light has a field day in both 1st and 2nd.. :grin:
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I opted for manual but next time around I may go for DSG due to the GTD's terrible traction in the lower gears and wet conditions - can anybody confirm if the DSG lets you accelerate quickly from standstill without tramping or wheelspin especially in wet and damp conditions?
Tramping is still very much prominent with the DSG - the 'anti-tramp' system appears to sleep a lot of the time :undecided: Stick her in to sport, and TC light has a field day in both 1st and 2nd.. :grin:
Thanks - that's not great how about wheel spin with your DSG from standstill (especially in the wet)?
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Why would DSG reduce the tendency for wheel spin?
I agree the tramping is bad, especially given the fact that VW trumpets about the anti-tramping system. Having said all that, I have yet to experience tramping that could be because I have Continental tyres not Bridgestones or it could be that my anti-tramping system is working or...
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I suffer from far less tramping now, but only because I really rein it in when it is wet. I’d rather set off like a pensioner in a 1.0 Micra than sit there on the spot thumping the tarmac, but on a car like a GTD you really shouldn’t need to. A real pity I have to wait until 3rd to put my foot down when it is wet….still feeling too tight to buy a pair of Michelins for the fronts when those Bridgestones have lots of life left in them. A puncture would definitely make my mind up (probably just jinxed myself there).
I’m sure if we took our slippy GTDs back to the dealers in the wet to demonstrate a lack of effective anti-tramping measures and ask for a warranty fix, we’d be told to use less throttle (maybe that is the anti-tramping system, have a lighter right foot).
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Why would DSG reduce the tendency for wheel spin?
I agree the tramping is bad, especially given the fact that VW trumpets about the anti-tramping system. Having said all that, I have yet to experience tramping that could be because I have Continental tyres not Bridgestones or it could be that my anti-tramping system is working or...
Just thinking that the combined DSG and Traction Control would detect wheel spin and
enable quicker get always maybe it would dampen the drive a fair bit but at least you could keep you foot planted? where as in the manual once the wheels spin I have to momentarily lift off and re-apply.
All in all brilliant car and am very happy but just wish the summer would arrive!
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I suffer from far less tramping now, but only because I really rein it in when it is wet. I’d rather set off like a pensioner in a 1.0 Micra than sit there on the spot thumping the tarmac, but on a car like a GTD you really shouldn’t need to. A real pity I have to wait until 3rd to put my foot down when it is wet….still feeling too tight to buy a pair of Michelins for the fronts when those Bridgestones have lots of life left in them. A puncture would definitely make my mind up (probably just jinxed myself there).
I’m sure if we took our slippy GTDs back to the dealers in the wet to demonstrate a lack of effective anti-tramping measures and ask for a warranty fix, we’d be told to use less throttle (maybe that is the anti-tramping system, have a lighter right
I tend to agree with you - what's the opposite of a rain dance? Sun dance?!
Let's hope for a heat wave from February to Nov!!!
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Whilst I'm still far from enamoured with the Bridgestone's, I am finding the more miles I put on them, the better they seem to be getting. Don't get me wrong, I still think it's totally the wrong tyre for a car like the GTD with the massive amount of low down torque it has, but I am finding them less inclined to wheel spin like a bast*rd, unless I really provoke it.
Still think the Pirelli P7's on the Scirocco and the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymetrical's on the older MK5 2.0 GT TDI were much better tyres.
Still very happy overall though that I chose DSG, I certainly have no issues with the car getting confused which gear it should be in, or even being in the wrong gear, and it does make my journey's much more relaxed as a result. Others will obviously disagree, but hey, that's the beauty of choice.
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Just thinking that the combined DSG and Traction Control would detect wheel spin and
enable quicker get always maybe it would dampen the drive a fair bit but at least you could keep you foot planted? where as in the manual once the wheels spin I have to momentarily lift off and re-apply.
As far as I know the traction control system on manual and DSG cars is the same. If you want to keep your foot planted and let the traction control deal with it, it doesn't matter whether you're in a manual or DSG...
In terms of just keeping your foot planted... surely part of the skill of driving is the use of the throttle as an analogue device not a switch? :wink:
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Just thinking that the combined DSG and Traction Control would detect wheel spin and
enable quicker get always maybe it would dampen the drive a fair bit but at least you could keep you foot planted? where as in the manual once the wheels spin I have to momentarily lift off and re-apply.
As far as I know the traction control system on manual and DSG cars is the same. If you want to keep your foot planted and let the traction control deal with it, it doesn't matter whether you're in a manual or DSG...
In terms of just keeping your foot planted... surely part of the skill of driving is the use of the throttle as an analogue device not a switch? :wink:
Have you a Manual with Bridgestones? If so you will know that in wet/damp conditions even the merest hint of fun/hard acceleration results in wheel spin - throttle modulation doesn't normally help in first gear its a lift off momentarily and re-apply that gets you going again. In 2nd and 3rd gears modulation can help - not had any spins into 4th?!!!!! :smiley:
As Monkeyhanger previously said having a lighter right foot is where its at it - hopefully on the next generation GTD we will see 4wd and of course more power! :shocked:
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Have you a Manual with Bridgestones? If so you will know that in wet/damp conditions even the merest hint of fun/hard acceleration results in wheel spin - throttle modulation doesn't normally help in first gear its a lift off momentarily and re-apply that gets you going again. In 2nd and 3rd gears modulation can help - not had any spins into 4th?!!!!! :smiley:
As Monkeyhanger previously said having a lighter right foot is where its at it - hopefully on the next generation GTD we will see 4wd and of course more power! :shocked:
No, I have the much better (at least on the evidence of this site) Conti's on my GTD Manual.
This may be a feel thing, but I've felt the Contis begin to lose grip and backed off slightly and the grip is regained quickly... you can then press the pedal to the point where traction is nearly broken...
This may be as a result of being an old git and having grown up driving cars with tricky power deliveries, even worse tyres than the Bridgestones and no traction control (classic Saab 900 T16S, Fiat Coupe 20v T, Porsche 944 Turbo S all of which were rather... sudden) other than that provided by your right foot...
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Just clocked 3000 miles now averaging about a 1000 miles a month and got to that stage where just in tune with the car and what it can do.
This is my first DSG and obviously had some concerns moving to it, but have to say in all honesty that given the my usual driving patterns I cannot see myself going back from DSG to Manual as it has taken so much of the irritating effort out of my travels.
M25 and town driving is now an absolute doddle in combination with the auto hold which I love.
Not sure how the DSG 'learns' your driving style or even if this is a factor but it has loosened up considerably and gear changes are smooth and seamless.
Do not worry if in comfort and normal the 'kick down' provides an instant response and you are off and away from any troubles readily.
I do use Sport and Manual (Paddles) when out of town and the 1st gear is a little short which demonstrates how the DSG in auto handles the gears really well as it's a seamless curve of power as goes up through gears.
I like the paddles for appropriate roads, a nice option to have, but if really honest tend to use them about 15% of the time as the DSG alone is getting me around both leisurely and at a pace very satisfactorily.
DSG does take a little getting used to, very alien in first few weeks but as get in tune with car you begin to love it and think for anyone who drives their cars in a pretty regular way as me will feel just the same.
Just a couple of quick comments now done 3K
1.The GTD is def far more refined in power output than my outgoing Audi but no less quick.
2. The ride with DCC is a revelation, in absolute love with comfort getting
3. Economy is now over 43 mpg overall and been rising all time which if consider there is a high element of town driving is very good as an average from 3k and recent trips to Manchester of 190 miles returned 54 and 55mpg respectively.
4. Love the heated seats
5. Very dirty! will need a good spring TLC but pointless now.
6. Get's lots of looks still :) and personally love the style more now see everyday - and thank VW for allowing me to have a 5 door without compromise on looks as having a 5 door has been another huge plus for me.
Edit - Have Bridgestones too and you do get some tramp in wet when really boot away and the electronics do intervene but you do got a good feel for it ever a little time and as Sootchucker states above it seems to be a lot better.
Not an experience had in last 6 years having driven a Quattro so have had to adjust and with that I would say it was a downside and be nice to have the 4WD for a complete combination though you then factor in cost, weight and how little much time the 4WD makes a real difference.
That's about it really and think not having to feel putting up with anything says it all as simply just get in car and enjoy each and every journey.
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Have you a Manual with Bridgestones? If so you will know that in wet/damp conditions even the merest hint of fun/hard acceleration results in wheel spin - throttle modulation doesn't normally help in first gear its a lift off momentarily and re-apply that gets you going again. In 2nd and 3rd gears modulation can help - not had any spins into 4th?!!!!! :smiley:
As Monkeyhanger previously said having a lighter right foot is where its at it - hopefully on the next generation GTD we will see 4wd and of course more power! :shocked:
No, I have the much better (at least on the evidence of this site) Conti's on my GTD Manual.
This may be a feel thing, but I've felt the Contis begin to lose grip and backed off slightly and the grip is regained quickly... you can then press the pedal to the point where traction is nearly broken...
This may be as a result of being an old git and having grown up driving cars with tricky power deliveries, even worse tyres than the Bridgestones and no traction control (classic Saab 900 T16S, Fiat Coupe 20v T, Porsche 944 Turbo S all of which were rather... sudden) other than that provided by your right foot...
To be fair 2nd and 3rd gear you can probably feel traction breaking and either back off or modulate the throttle but 1st gear spin a lot of the time happens suddenly with a burst of torque and its too late to do anything but lift off and reapply the throttle - was that 944 turbo rear wheel drive :shocked: aka "the widow maker!!!".
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Not an experience had in last 6 years having driven a Quattro so have had to adjust and with that I would say it was a downside and be nice to have the 4WD for a complete combination though you then factor in cost, weight and how little much time the 4WD makes a real difference.
Not really "quattro" in the original sense of the word but Audi marketing would have you believe otherwise, they're haldex so front wheel drive 99+% of the time... so seem to prevent wheelspin though... couldn't get my mate's S3 to wheelspin at all in the dry or the wet... you just ended up with a smelly clutch... :laugh:
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was that 944 turbo rear wheel drive :shocked: aka "the widow maker!!!".
The 944 Turbo was rear wheel drive with a limited slip differential. One of the most beautifully balanced cars I've ever driven and destructively fast when on boost :evil:
Off boost, you could be overtaken by 1100 Fiestas. You needed to be quite careful in the damp, it would spin the wheels in 3rd gear and given the on-off nature of the power it made driving quickly in the damp or wet a tricky affair. Having said all that, it was pretty controllable... once you were awake.
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Corgi I also still have memories of my Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo, bought brand new in 1998, I was mega excited about the 220bhp it produced. Very distinctive car in Sprint Blue and a lovely burble from the 5 pot engine.
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Corgi I also still have memories of my Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo, bought brand new in 1998, I was mega excited about the 220bhp it produced. Very distinctive car in Sprint Blue and a lovely burble from the 5 pot engine.
Mine was a P plate in yellow... and quite unruly... it was replaced by an Integra Type-R which was by no means as powerful but would have run rings around the Fiat in any situation except a drag race... perhaps...