GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: andygo on 18 December 2013, 14:53
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HELP!!
My sons GTi wont start. He's had to rescue his wife and 2 babies, and is now stuck with the car. I live 200 miles away, and although owner of a Vagcom, not a lot of good to him.
Car turns over fine, headlights do not dim, but just not a sign of firing. I think it may be a fuel pressure issue (he now tells me its always been hard to start), but the immediate question is, what to do now witha dead car some way from his home.
Any suggestions?
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I presume he has no breakdown cover of any kind? He needs either a mate with a trailer, or will have to suffer the cost of a recovery service.
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He's got breakdown cover. He's just phoned me to say they have been to his car and think the timings slipped as there doesn't seem to be any compression.
Timing chain tensioner topic, here I come..
Car is being taken to a local vw garage.
Car is a 2010 GTi with full VW service history, last service 3000 miles ago at 47,000.
My 09 GTi has just rolled past 50,000. :sad:
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On the bright side, he's not stranded then. :smiley:
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Sounds like a new engine! Another chain tensioner bites the dust, Vw will no doubt say that they are unaware of a problem.
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He's got green flag cover. He's just phoned me to say they have been to his car and think the timings slipped as there doesn't seem to be any compression.
Timing chain tensioner topic, here I come..
Car is being taken to Lancaster VW at Milton Keynes. Marvellous.
Car is a 2010 GTi with full VW service history, last service 3000 miles ago at 47,000.
My 09 GTi has just rolled past 50,000. :sad:
Make sure he checks the oil after completion of any work there.... friend of mine had his first service there when it was Wayside, in 2010 I think, I presume as it was an 09/59 reg car, they never put any oil back in it :cool: and he was stranded 20 minutes drive away in some nature reserve car park with the oil light on and not even a hint of lube on the dipstick.
On a side note, at least MKVW know about a tensioner issue, as about a month later it was recovered there for a new engine, which was due to a tensioner failure with the familiar non starting issue. ( under warranty, ifirrc the warranty invoice was over 7K ),He hadn't owned the car a year.
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Sadly sounds like another timing chain tensioner failure getting scary now.
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He has left it at the vw garage in MK. Quoted him £190 for diagnostics...bit harsh I think.
Very worried about my car now! Has anyone been successful getting a pre emptive replacement tensioner fitted before it goes pop?
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Sorry to hear about your son and his GTI (mk6). This is an example of why I quickly jumped ship and got rid of my Golf GTI (59) in case of the Timing Chain failure.
It just spooked me and I am now a very happy owner of a Ford Focus ST3 (mk3) nearly one year on.
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He has left it at the vw garage in MK. Quoted him £190 for diagnostics...bit harsh I think.
Very worried about my car now! Has anyone been successful getting a pre emptive replacement tensioner fitted before it goes pop?
There is another thread running in here, named - Am I the next victim!
Ross is having a possible pre empt replacment but he is IN warranty. Just follow this thread for updates relating to this and the other thread which contains the ones that have gone with all the details.
Unfort this is where my cars info sits, all better now though :smiley:
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Sorry to hear about your son and his GTI (mk6). This is an example of why I quickly jumped ship and got rid of my Golf GTI (59) in case of the Timing Chain failure.
It just spooked me and I am now a very happy owner of a Ford Focus ST3 (mk3) nearly one year on.
Sorry to go off topic.
How you finding the ST3, wontonboy, compared to the GTI?
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Well the latest news from the dealers is: None. They haven't even looked at it today.
Anyone know what their diagnostic procedures are for suspected failure of this type? I'd imagine a quick turn f the ignition key would confirm matters..
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Not sure what the official procedure is but I would.
1: Scan it see if it gives the error code about timing. If yes goto 3 if no goto 2
2: check for compression. If poor goto 3 if ok goto 4
3: inspect the tensioner through the inspection hole. Set to top dead centre, Support the engine, remove engine oil, remove upper and lower timing chain covers, check timing marks line up.
4: check for other engine codes, ie injectors, hpfp, etc, check for fuel and spark, then its process of fault finding.
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Having read through the Hand written inspection summary undertaken on my car it went something like this:
- Check codes - Refer to any Technical Product Information...
- Check Camshaft Timing...
- Inspect Chain and Tensioner...
- Remove Cylinder head...
- New engine...
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Sorry to go off topic.
How you finding the ST3, wontonboy, compared to the GTI?
A lot of fun (250hp) - in comparison to a standard unmodified mark 6 GTI, I'd say 15-20% quicker and powerful, and handles as good as a GTI. Drives comfortably as well during family days out, so it is a good all-rounder and not the 'hooligan boy racer' character and 5 pot growl that the Ford Focus ST (mark 2) was renowned for. Interior layout and design isn't bad either, but as the Germans are known to put a lot of effort in the interior/details I'd say the GTI just edges out in that department.
Ford have definitely stepped up their game to rival the mark 7 GTI and GTD.
That said, it doesn't mean the ST is better than the GTI and vice versa, it's really down to what you want in your car, how happy you are with it, and how it meets your daily practical needs.
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Anyone know what their diagnostic procedures are for suspected failure of this type? I'd imagine a quick turn f the ignition key would confirm matters..
If they tried starting it they would be complete cowboys :laugh:
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Christ not another one!
Keep us updated, mine has gone as well and waiting for updates :cry: :cry:
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Anyone know what their diagnostic procedures are for suspected failure of this type? I'd imagine a quick turn f the ignition key would confirm matters..
If they tried starting it they would be complete cowboys :laugh:
I don't think so actually. Any damage that's likely to have been done will already have been done. Not going to make it any worse, especially after my sons wife, who was using the car at the time tried starting it, then my son when he came to rescue her, followed but the recovery bloke....
If it's borked it's borked! :laugh:
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Update:
Dealers have been spoken to and have looked at car.
No fault codes.
Low compression and engine will not turn over by hand. They think a new engine is needed but cant say for sure at the mo as they need a tool that they do not possess...
All they need to do is have engine at TDC and check cam timing lines up. Cam timing wrong = valve/piston interfacing caused by timing tensioner failing. Its not hard.
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Unless they can do it by computer than old skool techniques are out of the question
Ive encountered garages who cant even fit a fuel filter properly :lipsrsealed:
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Apparently they need a bore scope, same as an endoscope. It pops down the spark plug hole and you can inspect the valves for damage.
All they have to do is measure the valve heights which when uncompressed by the cam should all be equal. If its got low compression, the valves are bent anyway. They also say they wont be able to progress the car until the New Year.
Incredibe attitude.
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Please dont tell me the tool they dont have is a bore scope even I have two :grin:
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Which VW Dealer is this?
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Lancaster Milton Keynes
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Andy, sounds identical to mine which failed on the 23rd Dec. Dealership not really very helpful either - I am in the very early stages with VWCS. Good luck
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=263151.0
Howard
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Can you both let me know when its diagnosed as the timing chain tensioner and i will add you both to the forum sticky thread.
Thank you
Geoff. :sad:
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Latest update: Nothing!
VW Customer services sat that VW MK have no date for the arrival of a bore scope so cannot proceed further. Very poor after 2 weeks out of action. Absolutely no sense of urgency at all. Amazing. Just amazing.
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Frther to my update (above) my son called the VW garage after speaking to VWCS. They told him they had in fact recieved the bore scope and had confirmed VWCS that the valves had in hit the pistons. They were putting a goodwill claim in for a new engine. They said that the reason for the valve/piston interface was 'unknown'. He's heard nothing since..
I wonder if the 'unknown' diagnosis is an attempt by VW to massage the stats re tensioners?
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Amazing how many companies/people think that sweeping the truth under the carpet will solve their problem. In the case of the cam chain tensioner problem it will just drive customers away from the brand.
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Latest news on this saga is that VW have offered a new engine FOC, the garage are asking for £1k in labour!
Err... No. Sons back on to VWUK. They mentioned to him how tricky it is to get hold of the service manager - he never comes to the phone. Sounds a bit like VW are not impressed with the garage and are pushing for a better result.
Should I hold my breath?
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Latest news on this saga is that VW have offered a new engine FOC, the garage are asking for £1k in labour!
Err... No. Sons back on to VWUK. They mentioned to him how tricky it is to get hold of the service manager - he never comes to the phone. Sounds a bit like VW are not impressed with the garage and are pushing for a better result.
Should I hold my breath?
I wouldn't.
If it's out of warranty - which I presume it is - then having VW stand the cost of the engine could be considered a decent result.
Good luck though...fingers crossed you get the labour cost reduced...but I doubt you'll get it for nothing.
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Sack that, your engines in the bag that's coming from VW. So there not going to take that away.
I would politely mention the tensioner thread on this web site calculate all the fails and say you will pay the avrg, that's fair!!!
Also to let u know how it works VWUK will MATCH whatever the dealer contributes but ONLY if they contribute. Nothing from the dealer nothing from VWUK.... Hence why there are wanting to speak to the SM.
Why don't you collar this guy agree a deal then he phone VWUK that how I did mine ...
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The service manager never comes to the phone either for VW or my son. He must be really important..
One thing I learnt today was the varying labour rates from garage to garage.
Smith Knight Fay Stockport £120 ph
Corkills Southport £102 ph
Lancaster VW Milton Keynes £135ph
Thats over 25% difference for the same job!
Anyone got any idea of the actual hours charged to an engine swap? I have been told its between 15 and 20 which is a huge grey area, could be approx £600.
It all sounds a bit flakey to me.
He has told VW about this thread amongst others. Alos pointed out that as a family we have owned over 20 other VAG vehicles over the years. !st time we have an issue and you get stiffed...
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I was quoted 15 hours at £90 so was £1350 I had to authorise!
I argued that strip could take 1-5 hours so why the flat fee. Response - this price includes strip & re build at 15 so can't argue with that.
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Get Trading Standards involved. IMO you or anyone else shouldn't be paying to put right a manufactures design fault
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Good result today. Garage/vw covering 100% of costs for engine and labour! took a bit of mider though...
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Good result today. Garage/vw covering 100% of costs for engine and labour! took a bit of mider though...
good news :cool:
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Good result today. Garage/vw covering 100% of costs for engine and labour! took a bit of mider though...
Result :cool:
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Oh, when the garage called my son to confirm, they said here is a foc courtesy car for him to collect..
I guess the moral of the story is maybe that VW can do the business after all! From our house it's a good recovery from a poor start.
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Excellent news! :smiley:
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:cool:
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Oh, when the garage called my son to confirm, they said here is a foc courtesy car for him to collect..
I guess the moral of the story is maybe that VW can do the business after all! From our house it's a good recovery from a poor start.
they should of been this cooperative from the start :whistle:
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Well yes, but they have to go through a 'fob off' ploy first I think just in case your a mug...