GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: sam j on 28 November 2013, 21:23
-
Sorry to do this, and I did search but all the answers I could find seemed to be more about the aesthetics than practicalities ;)
So I need to change the tyres on my stock 8v gti. Its got the original longbeach alloys, so should be running 205/50/15s, but currently has 195/50/15s.
Now the tyres I want (Nokian WR D3) come in 195/50/15, but the 195/65/15 are over €20 a corner cheaper...
So, question is, is it worth paying nearly 40% more to get the 50 profile, or can I fit the 65s? And yes, I know the tyres will look like balloons, but I don't care, they are winter tyres on scruffy wheels which will get replaced with something much nicer in the spring ;)
Thanks :)
-
65's are huge and will look sh!t, handle worse and completely throw your gearing and speedometer out.
-
as I said / hinted at... twice... I dont care about the aesthetics... really!
But fair enough, I shall keep searching. The only winter tyres available in 205/50/15 get nowhere near as good a test results as the 195/65... so either the size / gearing has to compromise, or the tyre performance does.
-
I've gone for a 195/50 on my winter wheels, were superb last winter. Went for the Nankang SV-2's
-
Yep I have 195/50 WinterContacts on my Longbeaches, no problems with speedo or handling in the wet- still waiting for snow to try them out properly though
-
I would get them.
The car will be 5mph out anyway so fitting a bigger tyre will bring it back up.
If your worried go for a drive with satellite navigation on and see what the speeds are.
If your speedo says 70mph and satellite navigation says 75mph then always drive 5mph under the limit.
Its not rocket science and it wont be out anyway :wink:
-
It will look and drive crap.
-
It will look and drive crap.
Think you missing the point here.
Its for winter and will be replaced later on
The 195/65 are a much better winter tyre than 195/50.
So how does a better rating winter tyre drive crap compared to a lesser rated winter tyre?
Plus because of the big tyre wall if you do get stuck in snow you can lower the tyre air pressure and have a bigger contact surface area.
Now if the op said he wants 195/65 for a summer tyre then I would strongly advise not to, but we are talking about winter and snow where a 195/65 tyre is going to be a lot better
-
Just get the proper size tyre.
This is the reason why insurance companies go mad and tell people there is premiums for fitting winter tyres as they are mods... No wonder if people don't fit the correct size...
62£ per tyre is not that much for 195 50 15 for Nokians... Doubt the 195 65 15 will be 20£ cheaper than that (actually on the website I use they are 4£ a tyre more for that size!!)
-
This is the reason why insurance companies go mad and tell people there is premiums for fitting winter tyres as they are mods... No wonder if people don't fit the correct size...
You what???
So people pay more insurance because they fit winter tyres? Winters are a mod?
Bullsh!t! How does making a car safer and less likely to crash increase insurance?
What says the 65 wall is not the correct tyre?
What tyre comes on a mk3 1.6 with steel wheels?
So whats the difference.
Please explain.
I can understand insurance going made when you fit a 195/40 to a 9j rim but not a bigger tyre wall thats pathetic
-
Just copied and paced from a tyre specialist site
As a class, winter tires are slightly higher in profile than the average all-season tire, and for good reason: Winter weather makes for uneven road surfaces, whether it's chunks of ice or the potholes and pavement buckles that follow, and a taller sidewall can better absorb the shocks — isolating passengers while preventing wheel damage. It's not uncommon for winter tires to ride on wheels that are an inch or two smaller in diameter than the summer tires they replace. So long as the outer diameter, measured at the tire's tread surface, remains the same, the wheel can shrink as the sidewalls grow, and vice versa. To save money and eliminate the risk of damage to nicer rims, tire outlets often sell winter tires on cheap steel wheels, which also save the cost of remounting and balancing seasonal tires to the same four wheels twice a year.
So yes it a good idea to fit bigger winter tyres!
-
I can copy and paste and put on links to argue why bigger tyre walls are a good idea for winter tyres all night.
Why dont someone tell me its a bad idea to fit bigger walled winter tyres?
-
Don't question the wheel specialist! :evil:
-
Don't question the wheel specialist! :evil:
Haha I cant see why people are not saying put a big tyre wall on for winter.
Its not for performance its for safety. The bigger wall will absorb pot holes curb bumbs when skidding on ice etc.
-
I run uniroyal ms7somethings in 195/50 and they were £50 a corner from camskills
that post says run some like 165/65's on a smaller (13 or 14 rim) rather than 195/50 on 15's like mine but 15's are the smallest that fir gti mk3's
so 195'50 is the only proper choice
-
Yes it does say fit a smaller rim but we aint all fortunate enough to be able to afford another set of wheels.
However it still says fit bigger sideways. So bigger side walls are better regardless off wheel size.
-
195 65 15 is way too big in diameter, hence not covered in the EC paperwork for car => mod. and you pay for mods with most insurance companies.
this got nothing to do with winter tyres as such, just they are not on the EC certification papers for cars.
yes you can fit other wheels if rolling diameter is within 5% of original wheels, which i doubt very much would be the case if 195 50 15 are meant to be fitted and you fit 195 65 15 - their side wall is 15! % (absolute not relative) higher, which makes the rolling diameter approx 15%* larger. this will cause your gears to become 'longer' i.e. gearing them up but more importantly get the speedo tolerance out of spec (you will go faster than speedo shows).
* actually even more since 65/50 - 1 =30(!!!)% i.e. >>> 15%
-
what tweed says is somewhat correct, what the website he references has not said is that this (i.e. higher sidewall) is normally achieved within 5% of rolling diameter.
how? you fit slimmer tyres with higher aspect ratios, e.g. 185 60 14 winter instead of 195 50 14 summer....
-
:grin:
They aint that big I have 195/65/15 winters tyres on my van. Ill take some pics in the morning with a tape measure to show the difference.
-
And what are you on about 195 65 15 tyres not covered for cars.
Thats a standard size car tyre.
Renault scenic for example.
So how can one car be covered but a golf aint?
-
195 65 15 are not standard size for mk3 golfs that's what i meant (with car i was referring to this particular car - not cars in general, thought that was pretty clear).
and yes 195 65 15 are a lot bigger than 195 50 15....
195 65 15 have circumference of 1.993m
195 50 15 = 1.809
more than 10% larger.... so your speedo will show less than you're actually doing, so strictly speaking illegal.
dunno why you'd fit them when they are even more expensive than correct ones and they are illegal?
-
Sorry explain why they are illegal and give me a link of the law its braking!
and the fact you said 195/65/15 is not covered EC paperwork for cars and not covered by insurance but they are standard size for many cars makes me wonder what the hell your on about?
As said by op they are cheaper than 205/50/15 thats the whole reason of this thread.
So changing a cars standard wheel circumference is illegal??
Under what law?
If thats true then why and how do so many people change their wheels?
Ever gone to a car show? Ever seen rs4's with 20" rotiforms etc?
Bullsh!t is making your wheel circumference illegal!
Show me the law on that.
By the way I am becoming a police officer so I would never give illegal advice.
-
When I said something about EC paperwork I meant the EC paperwork for a Mk3 Golf, not any other car. 225 45 17 is the standard size on my new Golf - does that mean it's automatically a standard size for any other car - NO.
I must admit I misread the original dimension he mentioned.... I thought it was 195 50 15 he had and wanted to go to 195 65 15. From 205 50 15 to 196 65 15 is ok as the change is only 7mm in circumference. I have posted how the circumference changes for my initial assumption. Why that is illegal? Because it changes the speed that is displayed in the car significantly enough (in particular if you fit larger wheels which will make your speedo read less then what you're doing). Also there is also the tyre's load index, i.e. if it cannot support the max axle weight.
You can fit any other wheels and tyres, given it does not touch body parts when in operation, but obviously only to the point where the speedo is still showing at least the speed you are doing (nor a lot more), load limits etc are adhered to. If you fit tyres where this is the case you'd need the speedo modified, provided nothing touches and all these things.
This is why in many European countries you need to carry documentation that the wheels and tyres on the car have been approved for use on that particular car model (unless factory fitted obviously) or even need to have it appended to your cars registration part 1 (the european, much more extensive counterpart of a V5) by a testing organisation (e.g. TÜV in West Germany, DEKRA in East Germany, Austrian local state government of the state you live in, Katsastus in Finland, just to name the ones I know for certain).
I would be very surprised if you could just put any tyres on any car and that would still be 100% legal in the UK as the EC type approval would cover the operation of a car in the UK as well (unless it's an old UK model or very specific e.g. some Caterhams etc). There may be regulations here that allow you to change within the limits of the EC type approval without needing to carry any paperwork or telling your insurance.
I can't give you a specific link to a law... a quick search and I found this on a UK tyre fitters website...
"UK law requires that your vehicle is fitted with the correct type and size of tyre for the vehicle type you are driving and for the purpose it is being used."
-
Sorry explain why they are illegal and give me a link of the law its braking!
and the fact you said 195/65/15 is not covered EC paperwork for cars and not covered by insurance but they are standard size for many cars makes me wonder what the hell your on about?
As said by op they are cheaper than 205/50/15 thats the whole reason of this thread.
So changing a cars standard wheel circumference is illegal??
Under what law?
It is not law as such but any car will have been homologated from new as part of this process tyres sizes will have been listed, fitting tyres outside of these sizes whilst it maybe ok could lead to insurance issues if you were to crash and they deem the car unsafe.
Another failing I have seen is fitting a lower speed rating again not recommended,
-
I know theres no law in that and I know fitting a 195/65/15 is not unsafe!
As I said its a standard size tyre for many cars so can not be unsafe.
Insurers are funny with wheels and tyres when the tyre is to small and stretched.
But fitting a larger wall tyre to protect you from claiming on insurance for new wheel is a win win for insurers.
Ring them and ask about it :wink:
-
As I said its a standard size tyre for many cars so can not be unsafe.
Yes but it was not standard on a mk3
But fitting a larger wall tyre to protect you from claiming on insurance for new wheel is a win win for insurers.
Maybe, maybe not all down to the insurer at the end of the day.
-
So why is it safe for one car but not a mk3 golf gti?
Granted performance wont be as good but that doesn't make it unsafe does it? Plus your less likely to get a puncher with a 195/65 than a 195/50. So safer right?
How can a tyre be unsafe for a mk3 gti but safe on a family wagon?
Now forget the performance of the mk3 gti because we are only meant to do a maximum 70mph and if your caught rally driving on b roads you'll get done for dangerous driving and 3 points on your licence.
So then if we are a binding by the law then a 195/65/15 tyre is perfectly safe enough for the public highway.
Lets not forget that op is talking about winter tyres and winter tyres are more square edge than a normal round edge tyre so they are not great big balloons. Maybe you all should go look at a set before you give bad advise saying that its illegal to fit said tyrez to a mk3 golf and that it is unsafe.
Maybe if he asked about stretching tyres on a 9" rim you guys would support him and advise what tyres he should get for a good stretch :rolleyes:
-
"How can a tyre be unsafe for a mk3 gti but safe on a family wagon?"
Cos the family wagon was designed to be used with it and it matches the car, speed rating, load index and the circumference, i.e. how far the tyre/car will travel for each revolution of the wheel.
205 55 16 is a default size tyre for many new cars, does that mean you can fit it to a Reliant Robin - NO!
It may be the standard size for a e.g. VW Caddy van but it's not for another car :rolleyes:
Otherwise every Jag XKR would have them on because they're cheaper.
At the end of the day it also does NOT matter whether you think it's safe or not. If you have an accident and the police and/or insurance find out you fitted tyres that were not intended for that car (i.e. a not homologated size or similar enough) then they may find them not fit for purpose and you can guess what that means.
If I fitted 185 60 14 on my mk7 golf estate (they wouldn't even fit over brakes but just for sake of argument) and 225 45 17 on my mk3 estate it'd still not be right just cos they are the standard size for another car.
Why is 195 65 xx safer than 195 50 xx ? It is not automatically - FULL STOP.
-
I wish people would stop arguing with the wheel specialist.
-
So just to clear this up.
A bad winter is coming our way. The op wants to fit a winter tyre of 195/65/15 but is being advised not to because its not safe. And something about police. Dont know what they can do, anyway. Its also gonna be insurance void because said tyre is a modification. And not covered for cars. Its also illegal to fit said tyre to standard wheel on mk3 golf.
With that said im gobsmacked that there are aftermarket wheel manufacturers and tyre manufacturers.
Im also shocked that there is not a law in place for tyre garages to fit tyres to wheels that are outside the manufacturers standard size.
And as I said about speed rating of tyres we are only by law aloud to do a maximum of 70mph
You only need to get the same load index and thats not hard since most cars are around 1200kg
Ill do us both a favour and email a insurance company asking if I can fit said tyre to a mk3 gti and ask if im covered legally and see if its a modification and if my premium goes up. Might take couple of days for a reply.
-
I already wrote that I did not read first post carefully.
Fitting 195 65 15 instead of 205 50 15 is OK- I thought he was gonna fit 195 65 15 instead of 195 50 15, that change is too much without further mods (e.g. speedo correction).
You can fit other tyres as long as certain aspects are within limits, i.e. the circumference is approx the same so that the travel for each revolution does not change too much, tyre and wheel size suit each other and the wheel [offset comes to mind] is not touching anywhere on the car on full lock and fully laden (or in case of rear wheels just does not touch arches), load index and speed index are up to legal requirement for the car in question.
That would not be the case for 195 65 15 if the original size tyre was indeed 195 50 15. For the OP's combination that is not true, as I have now said for the third time; he CAN fit it.
-
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
-
What ever happens as I posted it will look and drive crap.
-
:lipsrsealed:
-
What ever happens as I posted it will look and drive crap.
Lol very true