GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: VR6Lee on 27 November 2013, 22:04
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(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/10/15/1350300099266/Saltire-and-union-flag-009.jpg)
I was hoping they'd stay, but I like the look of this new flag if they go, so I may now change my mind :whistle:
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01437/SNN1406GXB-682_1437682a.jpg)
:kiss:
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if the scots want to leave let them have it we are no longer an empire were to busy being Americas puppet,be a shame though as some of the best infantry battalions are from Scotland
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Salmond just want's to make a name for himself and go down in history. It's so easy to break but will be near impossible to re-join.
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Salmond is corrupt, just like all the others......
When things start going wrong he will blame london and the years under union....
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Its all political BS with no doubt an underlying agenda. All i've seen it do is cause moronic arguments between the scottish and english. Let them do what they want, as if voting will make any difference. Either way we will all be screwed over one way or another by our self appointed leaders.
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We need you Scotts to keep paying taxes so the south can lower our taxes :evil: plus don't think the North sea oil is enough revenue to keep Scotland afloat :lipsrsealed:
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Its all political BS with no doubt an underlying agenda. All i've seen it do is cause moronic arguments between the scottish and english. Let them do what they want, as if voting will make any difference. Either way we will all be screwed over one way or another by our self appointed leaders.
Agreed.
Google how much salmond is spending on his houses.......
The guy is a creep who would sell the scotts back to the English for his own ends given the chance.
I think it's fckd up and both independent nations will be worse off for it
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North Sea Oil accounts for just a fraction of Scotland's wealth, however saying that there has been or is going to be a further £4 Billion investment by the oil companies in the north sea (Scottish territorial waters). If we also factor in Scottish Exports, Enterprise and Renewables (Scotland has the best potential in all the world for off shore renewables) then we'll be fine.
If our Scandinavian cousins can do it so can we.
I think the citizens of Scotland are being treated really unfairly by Westminster and that's what this all boils down to, the media (i.e. English owned papers and the biased BBC) would have our English brothers believe we're all kilt wearing bravehearts that hate the English, this is totally untrue. We just hate Westminster. If you look at the last General Election and the results from Scotland you'll see that 99% of us never voted in the Conservatives, yet there in power.
My company is owned by Englishmen, Scousers, who are just as fed up with Westminster and their London-Centric politics.
All I'm asking my friends and colleagues is to look into both arguments and make your mind up without the media telling you lies.
One of my colleagues stated that she didn't want to produce her passport every time she goes to England. :rolleyes:
All you need to do is look at Europe where there is free travel between all Countries.
And for Westminster to come out and say there's no guarantee on EU membership is rubbish, the EU needs Scotland and it's resources.
The best scenario for England is a common market, to allow us to share the debt, for continued business relations and our joint venture investments.
One last moan, English people do not subsidise the Scots. Don't be fooled.
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I'm gonna say one thing only.....
Scotland, when it all goes tits-up, don't come crying for a handout.... (ie Ireland)
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Its all political BS with no doubt an underlying agenda. All i've seen it do is cause moronic arguments between the scottish and english. Let them do what they want, as if voting will make any difference. Either way we will all be screwed over one way or another by our self appointed leaders.
Agreed.
Google how much salmond is spending on his houses.......
The guy is a creep who would sell the scotts back to the English for his own ends given the chance.
I think it's fckd up and both independent nations will be worse off for it
He's a fud. They all are. North and south of the border. Robots, working for a higher source, suppressing relevant information. That is their primary objective. Professional liars. And they do a damn fine job is this regard. I cannot help but look down at those who believe our political institutions are for the benefit of the general population. I mean how much more evidence do they need lol.
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North Sea Oil accounts for just a fraction of Scotland's wealth, however saying that there has been or is going to be a further £4 Billion investment by the oil companies in the north sea (Scottish territorial waters). If we also factor in Scottish Exports, Enterprise and Renewables (Scotland has the best potential in all the world for off shore renewables) then we'll be fine.
If our Scandinavian cousins can do it so can we.
I think the citizens of Scotland are being treated really unfairly by Westminster and that's what this all boils down to, the media (i.e. English owned papers and the biased BBC) would have our English brothers believe we're all kilt wearing bravehearts that hate the English, this is totally untrue. We just hate Westminster. If you look at the last General Election and the results from Scotland you'll see that 99% of us never voted in the Conservatives, yet there in power.
My company is owned by Englishmen, Scousers, who are just as fed up with Westminster and their London-Centric politics.
All I'm asking my friends and colleagues is to look into both arguments and make your mind up without the media telling you lies.
One of my colleagues stated that she didn't want to produce her passport every time she goes to England. :rolleyes:
All you need to do is look at Europe where there is free travel between all Countries.
And for Westminster to come out and say there's no guarantee on EU membership is rubbish, the EU needs Scotland and it's resources.
The best scenario for England is a common market, to allow us to share the debt, for continued business relations and our joint venture investments.
One last moan, English people do not subsidise the Scots. Don't be fooled.
If our Scandinavian cousins can do it so can we.
Well lets be frank here most of the North sea oil doesn't belong to Scotts or English check yourself who owns a lot of majority shares in the companies! :wink:
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Oil in territorial waters belongs to the country Jay. Yes the oil companies are private and shareholders make lost of money. But they pay a hefty wedge of that by comparison to the country in form of licence fee / % profit etc.. for the right to drill for the oil.
Scotland doesn't have to nationalise the upstream operations to get oil money.
IIRC all of the North Sea oil comes inland at Grangemouth to be refined.
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Oil in territorial waters belongs to the country Jay. Yes the oil companies are private and shareholders make lost of money. But they pay a hefty wedge of that by comparison to the country in form of licence fee / % profit etc.. for the right to drill for the oil.
Scotland doesn't have to nationalise the upstream operations to get oil money.
IIRC all of the North Sea oil comes inland at Grangemouth to be refined.
I'm aware of rights of the land, but the cost of drilling and rigging is something astronomical, all I see is overseas investment when it could be domestic if the right people are behind it. My problem is corporate political bias where if policies change for the wrong reasons Scotland could leave the whole nation without potential future revenues. Yes Scotland doesn't need to nationalise it, but that's a foundation still to be written and exposed.
"Better the devil you know, rather than the one you don't see coming!"
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Oil in territorial waters belongs to the country Jay. Yes the oil companies are private and shareholders make lost of money. But they pay a hefty wedge of that by comparison to the country in form of licence fee / % profit etc.. for the right to drill for the oil.
Scotland doesn't have to nationalise the upstream operations to get oil money.
IIRC all of the North Sea oil comes inland at Grangemouth to be refined.
Spot on :wink:
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Well I thought I would give my 2 cents on this subject as one being Scottish and two being motivated of a better life and/or better life for the children of this generation.
SNP from day one has said that they believe they can do things better. This has been the fundamental argument for independence. With 90% of the oil reserves allocated in Scottish waters, the is the assest we have to make independence happen. Not for a minute do I believe Alex Salmond would move forward with this vote without oil reserves.
Taking into the account of the very small population Scotland has compared the UK or to go far as counrties with vast oil reserves...Russia India, US and others. The sustainability costs of Scotland are not even on the same spreadsheet of these.
Do I think that leaving the UK is the answer for everyone...no. What is happening I would say is selfish on the snp's part. You have to ask opposite questions on, how would the UK fill the financial void. No oil taxation (small percentage anyway), loss tax revenue (if you believe Scotland pays more tax than it gets back) not letting Scotland keep Sterling (devaluation of GBP - perhaps causes uncomprehenable effects) and so on.
But the SNP have repeatedly stated that they can not influence Westminster due to lack of representation of Scottish mp's.
What would you do??
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Take out the oil central banks lent Scottish banks hundreds of billions of pounds just to bail them out so whats Scotland going to do, join Euro Crisis zone five years, six years down the line.......???
IMO Scotland is as strong as it is because of the relations it has with England and without support as a new independent nation its going to struggle for sure. What next? Major borrowing in Scotland's' central bank who is going to lend the monies Germany Ireland or UK? This reminds me if reunification of Germany going backwards :undecided:
What about all those Scottish workers in London and UK will they pay more tax or less tax?
Its funny how many Scott's really don't want to take into account of oil, but it comes up in every argument its not even the crux of the debate.
Policy as usual is trying to get it right and forgetting what was best policy in the first place?
Everyone wants it......... to be over in there favour, all I see is future cock ups and that road is not pretty :lipsrsealed:
I've always heard if the child wants responsibility then give it without support so the mistakes can be learned
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Take out the oil central banks lent Scottish banks hundreds of billions of pounds just to bail them out so whats Scotland going to do, join Euro Crisis zone five years, six years down the line.......???
IMO Scotland is as strong as it is because of the relations it has with England and without support as a new independent nation its going to struggle for sure. What next? Major borrowing in Scotland's' central bank who is going to lend the monies Germany Ireland or UK? This reminds me if reunification of Germany going backwards :undecided:
What about all those Scottish workers in London and UK will they pay more tax or less tax?
Its funny how many Scott's really don't want to take into account of oil, but it comes up in every argument its not even the crux of the debate.
Policy as usual is trying to get it right and forgetting what was best policy in the first place?
Everyone wants it......... to be over in there favour, all I see is future cock ups and that road is not pretty :lipsrsealed:
I've always heard if the child wants responsibility then give it without support so the mistakes can be learned
Scotland we have yet to leave the uk, secondly, the UK has been borrowing weill over its means hence why we have a deficet what we will proably never close. Its normal that all countires borrow due the financial system we live in.
People have there own views ofcourse, but I believe econimies are a product of trading of natural resources using a invented legal tender. Nothing more. Economies do not spring from the trees!. Perhaps not a direct product, however econmies with natural resources are able to expand and boom.
I've always heard if the child wants responsibility then give it without support so the mistakes can be learned
Nothing personal at you Jay, but thats suicide in the society we live in this day and age. Putting corporate gain and greed to the side. Adults created this mess and we now have to pay for it.
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Uk Governemt say's "we must invest £millions into renewable green energy because North Sea oil & gas is running out"
The then Scots say they want independence.
Someone then tells Dave that Scotland owns all the oil and gas.
Uk government says " Scotland should not leave the Uk becuase we...are stronger together.."
:rolleyes:
IRAQ
AFGHANISTAN
LIBYA
SCOTLAND
:lipsrsealed:
:grin:
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^^ :grin:
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Everyone outside of London should leave the union :lipsrsealed:
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Take out the oil central banks lent Scottish banks hundreds of billions of pounds just to bail them out so whats Scotland going to do, join Euro Crisis zone five years, six years down the line.......???
IMO Scotland is as strong as it is because of the relations it has with England and without support as a new independent nation its going to struggle for sure. What next? Major borrowing in Scotland's' central bank who is going to lend the monies Germany Ireland or UK? This reminds me if reunification of Germany going backwards :undecided:
What about all those Scottish workers in London and UK will they pay more tax or less tax?
Its funny how many Scott's really don't want to take into account of oil, but it comes up in every argument its not even the crux of the debate.
Policy as usual is trying to get it right and forgetting what was best policy in the first place?
Everyone wants it......... to be over in there favour, all I see is future cock ups and that road is not pretty :lipsrsealed:
I've always heard if the child wants responsibility then give it without support so the mistakes can be learned
Scotland we have yet to leave the uk, secondly, the UK has been borrowing weill over its means hence why we have a deficet what we will proably never close. Its normal that all countires borrow due the financial system we live in.
People have there own views ofcourse, but I believe econimies are a product of trading of natural resources using a invented legal tender. Nothing more. Economies do not spring from the trees!. Perhaps not a direct product, however econmies with natural resources are able to expand and boom.
I've always heard if the child wants responsibility then give it without support so the mistakes can be learned
Nothing personal at you Jay, but thats suicide in the society we live in this day and age. Putting corporate gain and greed to the side. Adults created this mess and we now have to pay for it.
I have a cynical view maybe age related or industry overflow, but that statement is not from me, but that's what a government will do just to prove a point.(You can't have it both ways) :wink: You damage/restrict our revenue away, and they will take support away completely until the new Scottish government sells it soul back to England or the next country who looks like they might be friendly. Referendums? That is another way of saying lets wait it out really long time so we can bargain a higher political foot hold in Westminster when we make idle threats (That's not my feelings towards Scots, but that's what UK politicians are thinking. Like I said I want any country to be truly independent, but is that just a cliche in the Matrix? :grin:
Agreed all central banks are inefficient! I've always said its an imperfect system, but its the only one we got :laugh:
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Scandinavia keeps getting mentioned.
It's a wonderful place to visit but to emulate it will cost a fortune and require a change in the Scottish mind set I think most Scotts will struggle with in fact most of the world would.
If you want independence then good for you I hope it all goes well but every thing ive seen for it has just as many holes in it as Westminsters Scotland policy.
Funny I've just been talking about this with a pair of scotts and a Norwegen in basel airport, we all agree that a big decision is being taken on unclear and unsubstantiated facts......
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This is a fantastic debate.
I wish we had something like this broadcasted live with business leaders as well as politicians.
Of course the speaker would have to be someone unbiased from outside the UK.
I know that in the short term Independence may cost us Scots more, I know there is a risk but for the sake of my children and the future generations I'll be voting Yes.
The Scots just like the English are a proud patriotic culture, but our paths do stray away from each other and our populations expect different things.
No matter if we stay with the UK or go it alone the future is uncertain, the Tory's want a vote on leaving the EU, that in my opinion is F**king Mental!!
I don't want your Royal family (the biggest benefits scroungers IMO) and I'm not bothered about Sterling (I'd take on the Euro) I work for an Engineering company who's a partner to ABB, I'm sure they'd find it easier dealing in the Euro with us??
The main thing the people of Scotland should think about is if we vote No, what then does that mean??
I think our powers will be reduced, the Tory's were against Devolution from the start!
I don't want a bunch of public school boys and their rich friends and family running away with all the spoils while the rest of us struggle.
A few months back David Spameron was touring the world, China, Pakistan, India etc.... selling weapons built by UK arms manufacturers. Alex Salmond on the other hand was in China, Russia, Germany etc doing business deals, investments in our universities and economy.
The long and short of it all is you can really trust anyone in politics.
There all lawyers and taught from an early age how to lie convincingly.
I'd like to see more business men & women in charge of countries.
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This is a fantastic debate.
I wish we had something like this broadcasted live with business leaders as well as politicians.
Of course the speaker would have to be someone unbiased from outside the UK.
I know that in the short term Independence may cost us Scots more, I know there is a risk but for the sake of my children and the future generations I'll be voting Yes.
The Scots just like the English are a proud patriotic culture, but our paths do stray away from each other and our populations expect different things.
No matter if we stay with the UK or go it alone the future is uncertain, the Tory's want a vote on leaving the EU, that in my opinion is F**king Mental!!
I don't want your Royal family (the biggest benefits scroungers IMO) and I'm not bothered about Sterling (I'd take on the Euro) I work for an Engineering company who's a partner to ABB, I'm sure they'd find it easier dealing in the Euro with us??
The main thing the people of Scotland should think about is if we vote No, what then does that mean??
I think our powers will be reduced, the Tory's were against Devolution from the start!
I don't want a bunch of public school boys and their rich friends and family running away with all the spoils while the rest of us struggle.
A few months back David Spameron was touring the world, China, Pakistan, India etc.... selling weapons built by UK arms manufacturers. Alex Salmond on the other hand was in China, Russia, Germany etc doing business deals, investments in our universities and economy.
The long and short of it all is you can really trust anyone in politics.
There all lawyers and taught from an early age how to lie convincingly.
I'd like to see more business men & women in charge of countries.
Mate,
Tories are business men they are capitalists through and through, Salmond cant do deals on arms as an independent Scotland will not have a defence industry to speak of otherwise I guarantee you he would be flogging it to fund the new Scottish nation before the last brick has been set on Hadrian's wall.
Dont be fooled that a Scottish national government will be any different going forwards. The SNP will have Tory, Labour and other opposition and likely to be voted in once you hit your first national crisis after the honeymoon is over, it will happen, sh!t always happens. You will have a capitalist leader selling off your assets at some time in the future, it may even be Mr Salmond.....
(Whether you would rather a Scott fcking you over Westminster that's your choice :grin:, Cameron sounds pretty Scottish to me you can have independence tomorrow if you agree to take him up there :wink:)
Norway is often thrown into the mix, it spends practically none of its oil revenue only the interest it earns off of it, making up approx 10% of budget. This is why it is rich, it has very high tax and cost of living which pays for the very lovely country it is.
How long will Scotland last with oil being its major income? has anyone answered this? If Scotland has to sell its oil then its a buyers market and it will have to sell oil in volume to sustain itself, sustain its national health system, sustain its euro contributions, sustain its unemployed, schools etc etc etc. What else will Scotland sell off to help support its economy?
You say for the sake of your children, should you be being more cautious rather than patriotic?
A Scotland joining the euro would be a small contributor, and in a similar boat to Greece or Ireland, they took offence to Germany and France imposing austerity measure on them would you like this? The UK owns most of Ireland's debt now with Greece, Spain and just about everyone else hocked up to Germany and France all dependant on their stability for the roofs over their heads.
The same rules apply to the remaining UK nations, it will damage us too.
It could also go the other way and be a bed or roses but has anyone done the maths? are you well off enough to take a hit on your wages should the recovery take a nose dive? Could Scotland take a hit like that? Could England? Who knows......
We are different, if it means that much to you then go for it :smiley: We can finally play you properly for bragging rights :grin:
The Queens mum was Scottish nobility, that makes her half Scot half German so you can have her with her Grecoscotman descendants :grin:
Similar sort of questions apply to Wales but I would not care if the Welsh fcked off :laugh: joke :kiss:
If its all going to happen and we split up and maybe in the future Wales and NI Included has anyone worked this out properly?
What models do we have to compare against? Who gets NI :lipsrsealed:
Maybe we do just need to flip a coin to start something, the Baltic states are pretty nice taken 20 years, but I might just get to retire somewhere nice :undecided: Maybe Scotland :laugh: