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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Waspy on 10 November 2013, 20:55
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So this is just a thread putting my thoughts down and asking all your opinions. My 8v has started burning oil (max line to min line in about 800/1000 miles) and I was thinking about having the head rebuilt. I haven't done a compression test on it or anything yet, although I plan to.
I was thinking while the head was off maybe I should make some improvements. I love the way the car drives, and have a lot of fun in it, but who doesn't want a few more ponies ay? In all fairness though I am not too bothered about top speed, I rarely hit the top speed as it is (if ever) so I would rather improve the 0-60, make those chavs in corsas cry even more at the lights.
So with that in mind here are just some of the things i have been considering and reading up on. From the inexpensive to the more expensive.
Fast Road Cam - Is it worth it for my aim? I drive my car pretty much evenly in town and motorway, but have read that a non-stock cam can make it a bit undrivable in stop-start. I have no experience with them, so its hard for me to judge.
Just head work - So the initial plan was just to have the head refurb back to its former glory, but then started reading about crossflow heads and porting and all sorts. A standard refurb look like it is about £300 give or take, so is an extra 125 for TSRs pack A worth it? And will it bolt straight on, or do I have to change manifolds and things?
EMS - Some people seem to get good gains from megasquirt and the likes, I am not sure how capable I am though. But then again, that is what megasquirt is all about, learning, right?
2 litre conversion - Looks like a good conversion. Anyone with experience?
ABF - Now this is the biggy, I couldn't do this by myself, and although I have friends with garages who would discount it it would still be more than if I were able to do it myself. This would also give me a lot more power than those mentioned above but would it lose the character of the car? And also I have a feeling insurance would be an issue, although someone in the insurance board assured me not.
I am on a budget although I do think I could afford all of the things above, but I would rather value for money. I.e I don't want to spend £1k on 1 horse. This is a (most) daily driver, not a track car.
So have any of you got experience with the above, or any advice for me. Anything I haven't mentioned? I am pretty happy with it as is, but at some point I will want to up the game, and I though while work was being done anyway, maybe now is the time.
Thanks guys. *Holy sh!t just previewed it and this post is huge! TL;DR What's the best way to make a 8v quicker off the mark?
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I don't think a abf bottom end would be good if you want the low down power as it would need higher revs. I drive with a TSR P&P head with a kent fast road cam and it is just great off the line, the 8v gearbox 1st gear is very short and with how long the gear changes are its a hindrance when pulling away fast however second gets you to 80mph before red lining. The ecu doesn't do enough on digi to have a huge difference with a custom ecu map like megasquirt, it leans out slightly a top end is all. I read a post a few months ago about potentially increasing fuel pressure and leaning the mixture so it doesn't lean out at top end, not sure how it went.
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Thanks for the response, really helpful! The p&p tsr head is like £900 isn't it? Pricing me out a little.
Was also wondering what effect a different cam has on fuel. I get about 38mph ATM, I know I can't have everything but I don't fancy taking too much of a hit on petrol, since like I say it's my daily
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I don't think a abf bottom end would be good if you want the low down power as it would need higher revs. I drive with a TSR P&P head with a kent fast road cam and it is just great off the line, the 8v gearbox 1st gear is very short and with how long the gear changes are its a hindrance when pulling away fast however second gets you to 80mph before red lining. The ecu doesn't do enough on digi to have a huge difference with a custom ecu map like megasquirt, it leans out slightly a top end is all. I read a post a few months ago about potentially increasing fuel pressure and leaning the mixture so it doesn't lean out at top end, not sure how it went.
80mph in 2nd. Wouldn't trust those old clocks bud.
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I would go for the ABF swap if you can, no matter what you do to the 8v it will still lack what an ABF will provide.
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80mph in 2nd. Wouldn't trust those old clocks bud.
It must of been close, bouncing off the rev limiter there, not the recommended range. Will do a satnav speed test :smiley:
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Abf ticks all your boxes.
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I would go for the ABF swap if you can, no matter what you do to the 8v it will still lack what an ABF will provide.
Abf ticks all your boxes.
I was hoping you guys wouldn't say that! As it is something I will have to wait to do (would need time off work etc) and is the most expensive one, plus my insurance worries... However I guess even if I tuned the 8v as far as it would go I would still find myself wanting more.
Still looking for opinions guys, thanks for all so far though, really helping me out!
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Abf ticks all your boxes.
how much do you think it will cost to get the ABF done?
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2.0 2e bottom end conversion with p&p head plus cam - is the cheapest, easiest, most cost effective solution on an 8v
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The difference in the insurance cost between my car as a standard 8v and after the ABF conversion was negligible.
Its going to work out the best value for money.
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i wasnt even taking insurance into consideration lol
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For what a head is gonna cost you could get an abf lump
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For what a head is gonna cost you could get an abf lump
And that was why I first considered the conversion! However actually doing it will be a pain in the balls. I have no garage, or drive for that matter :( I would need to take it back to Newcastle if I wanted it done (or pay through the nose for someone in leeds to do it) which means time off work etc. I would love it, just not sure it's feasible right now. Unless any of you know someone who will do the work inhumanly cheap :laugh:
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If your already doing an engine conversion is it not best to just go whole hog and do a 20vt? An abf isn't that fast and will still leave you wanting more in a few short months. An abf just seems like a not needed stepping stone to making a faster car. If you can't do the work yourself for whatever reason then labour is the real cost. The cost of getting a P&P head with cam and a bottom end you might as well just spend the same on a more powerful conversion.
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2.0 2e bottom end conversion with p&p head plus cam - is the cheapest, easiest, most cost effective solution on an 8v
Noted! thanks alot :smiley:
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The difference in the insurance cost between my car as a standard 8v and after the ABF conversion was negligible.
Its going to work out the best value for money.
If you don't mind me asking, how much was the difference and who is your insurance with?
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Guys bare in mind I am only 19, 20 by the time this is all done. So when you say there is little difference, is that little difference for a 15NCB insurance angel?
And I see the point about going the whole hog and getting a 20vt but it seems a little overkill? I sit I'm my 8v and by no means think "this is a slow car". But yes labour will be my biggest cost (and will be what kills this whole idea) hence the ABF was a curveball. I am so torn on this.
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Guys bare in mind I am only 19, 20 by the time this is all done. So when you say there is little difference, is that little difference for a 15NCB insurance angel?
And I see the point about going the whole hog and getting a 20vt but it seems a little overkill? I sit I'm my 8v and by no means think "this is a slow car". But yes labour will be my biggest cost (and will be what kills this whole idea) hence the ABF was a curveball. I am so torn on this.
I'm 19 and will be going for a 20vt in march, when I got a ball park figure last year on fully modified insurance it was £1800 but I was only entitled to third party cover. If you don't use an insurance company that specializes in modified cars then my quotes before were around £6000. Also with respect to the whole hog conversion it makes more sence to go all or nothing. If your reasonably happy but want that little bit more a head and cam will push the power up, the abf just pushes it that little bit higher past the 16v. I do not think the power gains from an abf are worth while unless you can do the work yourself.
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How can you say it's not worthwhile?
Abf is in a different league to an 8v
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Well here is where I stand now. Come renewal £1800 will be not far off double what I am paying fully comp. So I don't think a 20vt is in the scope really. Although insurance prices were far higher a year ago, so that is probably on the pessimistic side.
If I were to go ABF and got bored after a year or whatever, how tunable is it as an engine?
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If I were to go ABF and got bored after a year or whatever, how tunable is it as an engine?
Gains can be had but to get a lot more power will be expensive.
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I am just in the process of having abf fitted to my 8v at a local garage to me, should be picking it up this wk :grin: think they have charged a fair price.
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I am just in the process of having abf fitted to my 8v at a local garage to me, should be picking it up this wk :grin: think they have charged a fair price.
What constitutes fair? What parts did you provide? If you don't mind me asking?
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I provided the engine loom etc and they fitted. If I had the engine fitted as it was it would of cost me aprox £700 but I had it fully rebuilt so was just over 1k not including parts. Not that far from you.
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That's great thanks! You're right, £700 seems very reasonable. But right now I'm not sure I can justify spending like £1100 on it sadly. If I had the facilities/know how to do it myself I would do it in a heartbeat, but thinking about its not going to happen.
So I think, putting ye'olde sensible hat on, I will just get the head refurb'd and maybe later add a snazzy can
Cheers guys!
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you need to figure out not how much you can afford to throw at a conversion/insurance increase/fuel consumption increase. but how much you want to throw at it. I would go for 2 litre block/ modded head and fast road cam. give good power increase and still be wise in traffic. and engine bay will look just like before.
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I want to throw as much as I can afford at it ;)
Yeah seems like a good option, modded heads are pretty pricey from what I've seen though? So that set up would almost out cost an ABF. Or maybe I am way off.
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I want to throw as much as I can afford at it ;)
Yeah seems like a good option, modded heads are pretty pricey from what I've seen though? So that set up would almost out cost an ABF. Or maybe I am way off.
but the mods will be undetectable :wink:
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Headwork, cam, refurb the rest of the head, 3 angle valve seats and you'll be laughing. Though is the oil loss through the stem seals or from bypassing the compression ring on the piston? Be worth figuring that out first.
Good gains from porting these heads well, same with the 16v and even if you dont cam them. Second hand cams are cheap as chips though so might as well be done! We've built lots of mad spec 8v and 16v's, they can be turned into right monsters haha
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Headwork, cam, refurb the rest of the head, 3 angle valve seats and you'll be laughing. Though is the oil loss through the stem seals or from bypassing the compression ring on the piston? Be worth figuring that out first.
Good gains from porting these heads well, same with the 16v and even if you dont cam them. Second hand cams are cheap as chips though so might as well be done! We've built lots of mad spec 8v and 16v's, they can be turned into right monsters haha
Yeah I am going to do a compression test ASAP, but ABF is still on the cards, I really like the idea of tuning the 8v, as said for undetectable-ness. It's just the price of head work is hard to stomach when I can get a whole donor mk3 for less...