GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: platinum70 on 07 November 2013, 17:55
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Have been running the stage 1 with Milltek cat back system on my Ed35 for a months now. The speed of the car is astounding as many drivers find the their surprise and disbelief.
I am considering the next stage but wondering if it is just too much? For anyone running stage 2 can you please give me some feedback as to whether to take the £900+ plunge or not, and whether it is in fact just too much power for the front wheels.
Many thanks
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I'd spend some money in the chassis and braking department then consider if i really want Stage 2
More power doesn't make it necessarily faster point to point
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I would agree and in stock mode everywhere else too much could well be too much. thanks
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Power wise I would consider the HPFP upgrade, a genuine performance increase on TFSI that is also discreet. I would probably take that over a larger downpipe or CAI and probably leave it at that.
With this modification Cam Follower inspection interval should be lowered but it is something you can DIY.
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I'm running stage 2+ and baldly need brakes and suspension, car is fine once your moving and into 3rd but 1st / 2nd wheelspin is a problem. Sometimes thro 3rd wheelspin to the rev limiter witch the dsg box don't like much and tends to kill the power then engage again.
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I'm running stage 2+ and baldly need brakes and suspension, car is fine once your moving and into 3rd but 1st / 2nd wheelspin is a problem. Sometimes thro 3rd wheelspin to the rev limiter witch the dsg box don't like much and tends to kill the power then engage again.
You have detailed exactly what I expected. I am also concerned about the noise of the exhaust. Wigit said it can drone a bit at higher speed. I went for the non-res cat back so the extra bit would have to be resonated for me. Just can't quite decide....
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Power wise I would consider the HPFP upgrade, a genuine performance increase on TFSI that is also discreet. I would probably take that over a larger downpipe or CAI and probably leave it at that.
With this modification Cam Follower inspection interval should be lowered but it is something you can DIY.
@poached - forgive my ignorance but what is a 'HPFP'?? I have tried guessing but must admit to not Googling it..!!
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Got it.... High Pressure Fuel Pump. Something AMD recommended if stage 2 done.
Is it worth it on stage 1...???
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Later CDL engines respond to code better and seem to have slightly better fueling so I would leave well alone, pump wise if you do then Loba or APR, I wouldn't go near the Autotech seen to many fail
My wife's car did 70k on the original cam follower which was fine but changed as a precaution on a Stage 1, have seen issues but on the sort of cars I wouldn't touch with a barge pole
Each to there own but when you are at 2+ you need a diff IMHO and if manual upgraded clutch, or just buy a DSG R :wink:
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Got it.... High Pressure Fuel Pump. Something AMD recommended if stage 2 done.
Is it worth it on stage 1...???
It will maximise the gains with the remap and should lower EGT's as well.
Some older info here which applies to TFSI with K03 and K04 Turbo:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14350.0.html
As mentioned Loba or APR seem to have good feedback.
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Save the 900+ and save up some more money and buy a diff it gives a far better gain.
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Hi,
Kinda new to the hole tuning game so can someone quickly explain the difference between stage 1, 2 and 2+, 3. Ive had a look online and reading post but cant seem to get a define list of what each stage involves.
So far I think ive worked out
Stage 1
Cat back, remap, induction kit (recommended bov or dv change)
Stage 2
Turbo back, different remap, better induction kit (recommended clutch, brakes and suspension upgrades
Stage 2+
Different remap, extra intercooler
Stage 3
Upgraded turbo and remap
Some or all of this might be wrong so if someone could correct this or point me to a list that list everything be great
thanks
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There is no such thing as 'Stage 1', 'Stage 2' etc, because there is no consistent approach to what tuners refer to as a 'stage'.
So, I'd not get hung up on 'Stage' numbers.
The big jump is to a map...be it a moderate map, or map that makes the best of a slightly better flowing exhaust or less restrictive inlet.
Beyond that, replacement cats, ICs etc give bigger numbers but far less of a gain on the road...and you are into the laws of diminishing returns.
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Later CDL engines respond to code better and seem to have slightly better fueling so I would leave well alone, pump wise if you do then Loba or APR, I wouldn't go near the Autotech seen to many fail
My wife's car did 70k on the original cam follower which was fine but changed as a precaution on a Stage 1, have seen issues but on the sort of cars I wouldn't touch with a barge pole
Each to there own but when you are at 2+ you need a diff IMHO and if manual upgraded clutch, or just buy a DSG R :wink:
Thankfully mine is DSG with the DSG remap as well. Food for thought for sure but it gets to appoint when perhaps 'leave well alone' becomes the answer....
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I've got the e35 with vw racing catback going on in the next week. I'm very tempted to push the button on going stage1. Anything I should be wary of?? Mines dsg also.
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Personally I'd rather go brakes and suspension.
even at revo stage 1 I'm looking at brake options, which aren't cheap
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I've got the e35 with vw racing catback going on in the next week. I'm very tempted to push the button on going stage1. Anything I should be wary of?? Mines dsg also.
If you go Superchips they normally send you the manual map first, Bluefin is the only map the reverts to an OEM stock file if you are really worried about warranty, you then have the likes of APR and Revo, all three options are tried and tested,
Stage 1 gives you 50+ bhp and a lot more torque and really makes it fly
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Revo is my main choice!!
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Revo is my main choice!!
If you can get up to Tewksbury on Sunday there is 20% Revo maps V-Hub as they have an open day
I'm a self confessed Revo fan boy and that what i ran on the 35 in Stage 1 and 2 form but understand why its not for some
Mines now standard and you don't half have to work the gears to make swift progress
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I'm thinking revo, not just because of the power increase but more the torque. I would prefer the car to feel more lively. Not planning on going any more than stage 1!! Yes there are risks with the warranty, but has anyone had issues with stage 1 issues with revo or any other tuner?? As I understand, a revo stage 1 running at around 300bhp give or take a bit, is still only getting the engine and turbo warmed up slightly!!
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if you are going Revo go for the linear throttle Stage 1 as its way nicer to drive
my wife has run Revo for 65k on her GTI with the same engine with no issues
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Do a search both on this forum and google for revo and clutch :wink:
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Do a search both on this forum and google for revo and clutch :wink:
I know I'm really cheesed off my wife's clutch has started slipping after 75k and 65k of mapped miles I think it's outrageous
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I have used a few companies over the years dating back to my Nissan 200SX (why did I but that!!). But the company I only use is AMD in Essex. They were in Bicester but got bought out. They did my Leon Cupra R, two Audi A4's, two R32's, my last car which was an R36 and now the ED35. Stock hp was 246 and now running 330bhp on stage 1 with cat back. Torque is 321lb/ft. The car is amazingly quick. They did stage 2 on an ED35 to just over 400bhp!! It must be an animal in the wet. Obviously having power locked in reserve helps (being the R engine there was BHP already in the bank so to speak), so the gain is effectively 60bhp or so, but the reality is 84bhp which is just awesome. But the torque change I really noticed. The only thing I find is the car can bite a bit on certain roads when you accelerate, looking to change direction when you don't expect it. NOt torque steer, but really catches me out sometimes.
If this was 4WD I may consider it again but not sure. Seems brakes and other things may be the next item.
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I'd take those figures with a pinch of salt and go down to see Charlie at Surrey Rolling Road :smiley:
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400bhp on stage 2? I'm stage 2+ and would be surprised if car puts out more then 365hp, to achieve 400 u be looking at bigger turbo for sure
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If those are their quoted figures then that is dubious...
Some of the '300 Bhp from a map ED30s' don't always see the claimed figures.
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400bhp on stage 2? I'm stage 2+ and would be surprised if car puts out more then 365hp, to achieve 400 u be looking at bigger turbo for sure
Wigit - why would a very reputable and highly regarded tuning company 'manufacture' their RR figures. Is it even possible? My Leon and R36 were remapped and RR'd at AMD, and RR'd elsewhere, and the figures were virtually identical. My brothers 335d was done at elsewhere (DMS from memory) and then RR'd at AMD as well and again the figures were within a few bhp and lb/ft of each other.
My initial figures were lower, running on lower grade fuel and not having the exhaust done, but still got 311.7bhp. Got the full print out, and can't see why they would make it up. The 400bhp one is framed on the wall at their office with an endorsement from the owner who I guess has checked elsewhere. It had upgraded fuel pump and air intake, not sure about turbo though. But, if they were 'quoting' or 'manufacturing' figures I think someone would have known it by now and said something. The car effectively has 270bhp anyway as it is the R engine detuned (am I correct in the terminology??) so to get an extra 41.7bhp on a Stage 1 these days seems pretty tame and easy to me.
I have only been stitched up once by a right To**er. It was Jason @ ChippedUK (with the help or perhaps ignorance of Paramount Performance who used to be in Slough but went bust). He claimed all sorts could be done to my only strange purchase - a Mazda 6 MPS!! Not sure why I bought it but it was a fun car. He claimed to be able to add 70bhp. Had it four hours and when I drove it I couldn't feel any difference. Went back to Paramount and put it on their rollers and it had lost 11bhp!! I also checked it at AMD and with their help got my money back.
I can only gauge it on how it drives. Figures (which aren't important anyway) aside it leaves a lot of cars for dead and people who have been in it or driven cannot believe what it does for a 2.0T. Hence my reservation about the Stage 2 as I am not sure it needs it. I am worried it would be tiresome to drive and too much of a handful.
This car is quicker than the R36 was and that wasn't slow. It is the only car I've owned that I get in everyday and still get that 'amazing' feeling of the performance. You normally get used to it after a while and are looing to the next modification, but this puts a smile on my face every time....
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There are a several set up aspects that can be used both deliberately and accidentally to not give an accurate reflection of Flywheel power on a Dyno.
Rightly or wrongly, AMD Essex have been mentioned in the VAG scene for disputable results in the past usually in jest.
Maybe they cranked up the values for 1 run so they could stick it on the wall...
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I'm going to a rr soon see what mines making I'm running max boost for my ko4 turbo, intake and hpfp with turbo back milltek :smiley: I bet I don't make more then 375 hp,
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I have a stage 3 Golf R with an L0400 turbo upgrade, water methanol injection and manual boost controller ( which means I can run higher boost than any N75 controlled ED35 can) and I am running 361bhp at JKM. Take it down there and I guarantee that "stage 2" ED35 will not even do 350bhp.
Mine made over 390bhp BEFORE going for a hybrid turbo at Awesome GTI. Believe you me it is all about the dyno lottery. :wink:
Stage 1 power can vary quite a lot depending on bolt-ons, as can stage 2, but at stage 2+ the playing field tends to level out in terms of power as the cars all tend to have "all the toys" bolted to them.
The fact that I can get a result of 392bhp and 462lbft at a lower state of tune on one dyno and then get a 361bhp and 400lbft on another dyno after adding a stronger turbo and freer flowing exhaust at a higher boost level basically shows that you take your cars stated output with a very large pinch of salt!
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Personally I couldn't care if mine has 100bhp or a 1000bhp. It's all about how it drives on the road for me. The power from the car is immense and the delivery superb, as has every car they have ever done for me. The Golf R I drove, and the Scirocco R I had for five days (while my bumper was repaired), both seemed positively pedestrian by comparison to my ED35.
I have tried Brodie Britain Racing years ago (1989/90), Superchips, REVO, APS, Van Aarken, Paramount Performance, ChippedUK, DMS Automative, APR and AMD. I can honestly say that all roads lead to AMD from my experiences. I'm sure we've all had bad experiences of one kind or another. I did with BBR and ChippedUK. But so far AMD have never let me down and when I had the mechatronics unit replaced on the R36 (thankfully under warranty) I took the car back to AMD to have the DSG remap redone and they spent nearly three hours on my car for nothing. Including solving a problem the dealer could not.
Nothing has ever been too much trouble for AMD, and on the two occasions the my A4 and R36 had problems AMD were the ones to solve it. Some of the guys that worked out of Bicester when AMD were there have gone on to run their own companies very successfully. I'm not sure what the VAG scene says but I can't fault them. I know lots (not just VW) who have used them and never heard a complaint.
I'm sure this is a debate for some but at the discounted price I paid for the remap and exhaust, it is the best money I have spent in a long time......
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sorry platinum70 i know the AMD story well as APS work on my cars and Shaun
my comments were not a criticism of their mapping or service it is just when people start quoting dyno figures they will get scrutinised when substantially higher than the norm given the limits of hardware, whilst CDL engines mapper slightly better we are taking about 1-2% in terms of gain especially when you know the amount of development time the two main players have put into this maps over the last 18 months
i never really get involved in the figures debate these days, my car has been dyno'd a few times by Revo and i am aware of what it achieved and i have never got a chance to validate
the boys must be doing a stonking job though as it produces more power than mine on Stage 2 with a calibration engineer revising the mapping between runs
a few of remember the infamous Superchips Rolling Road day of 2009
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sorry platinum70 i know the AMD story well as APS work on my cars and Shaun
my comments were not a criticism of their mapping or service it is just when people start quoting dyno figures they will get scrutinised when substantially higher than the norm given the limits of hardware, whilst CDL engines mapper slightly better we are taking about 1-2% in terms of gain especially when you know the amount of development time the two main players have put into this maps over the last 18 months
i never really get involved in the figures debate these days, my car has been dyno'd a few times by Revo and i am aware of what it achieved and i have never got a chance to validate
the boys must be doing a stonking job though as it produces more power than mine on Stage 2 with a calibration engineer revising the mapping between runs
a few of remember the infamous Superchips Rolling Road day of 2009
Wigit - I didn't see your comments as negative at all and we are all entitled to have our say. That is what open forums are for. I welcome any feedback/comments as it helps.
I've known these guys a long time and they really go 'the extra mile' in terms of service. I would not use anyone else for such services, although Ed at APS is a great chap. I just stick with AMD due to the level of service and my personal experiences. Plus some very good prices for being 'loyal'.
Like you I am not into figures and not even sure why I detailed them in the post. For info I guess. As I said I can only gauge it with the car. I've had some quick cars in my time but this ED35 is unreal, as friends and other drivers could well confirm. It is so much fun to drive and the only car I've owned that the excitement of the power/performance is yet to wear off.
But I know what I'm like and the quest for 'more performance' may get the better of me........
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my 35 is on a stock map at the moment and once you've had you notice when you have not, the car is actually grey fun stock as you need to by at 6k to get the best out of it but don't want it all the time
i've had my wife's Pirelli today which is Stage 1 and it was hello mid range where have you been i've missed you :grin:
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When I test drove the car as standard I was really impressed with it. Initially I wasn't going to do it for a while but like I said earlier in this thread it is the best money I have ever spent.
I had the R32 before the R36 but sold it after just over a year. Found it small and never really enjoyed it. Not sure if the Mk6 is bigger but it just seems a more 'grown up' car. I love the look of it, the wheels, the styling and especially how it drives. Personally I prefer the DSG as long as it has been remapped. I want to change gear when I'm ready not when the car wants to....