GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: Poached on 21 October 2013, 19:48
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Evening All
Following on from here...http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=259461.0. It appears my vehicle may have suffered from Tensioner failure. The engine was started from a rest and ran roughly until failing with an EML present and failing to start since. The AA were called and a Camshaft Position Error was present in the fault memory.
I was towed to the Dealer where I had committed to Diagnostic time where a Camshaft Alignment Fault is present (Exact codes TBC tomorrow). I have been contacted this afternoon to say that the Dealer requires authorisation to investigate further and possibly strip the engine to see if damage to valves etc is present.
I have been quoted 8-10 hours labour for this work. I have not committed to this work at this stage. There must be an easier way to inspect the Tensioner first by accessing the chain drive from the side of the engine? I am mainly concerned with this approach because I could end up with Strip costs AND any replacement parts fitting costs (E.g engine) as well.
The Dealer has indicated that if the Tensioner is at fault then VW will contribute 100% part costs but will not commit to labour costs at this stage. The Dealer has suggested they may contribute but this has not been confirmed.
They also mentioned that the fault could be due to a Camshaft sensor fault and if that was the case then VW would offer no contribution. I found this inconsistent because both faults appear to be capable of causing similar engine damage, therefore they should be treated equally so I wasn't 100% convinced on the accuracy of everything stated. I am told this information is from VW's TPI (Technical Product Information) Database with the following numbers: 2025206/6 and 2024866/3.
I will be contacted by the Work Shop Manager tomorrow to discuss the Strip down and will also be contacting VWUK as well. A week before this happened I asked the Dealer to check the car on cold start (Left the vehicle over night) before a service as I was concerned about the Rattle/Whine on startup and perhaps the chain was briefly slack or the Tensioner was a problem. This is documented on the invoice as 'Nothing unusual heard' so not sure how much validity this report may have...
Car is 60k with FVWSH...and this is only 3 months since I got fleeced for a new DSG gearbox and DMF.
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Sounds like a classic failure just the way mine went!!
I also questioned why I must waste £X amount on stripping a dudd engine but I was told this is what they HAVE to do in order to qualify for the engine replacement from factory the mechanic told me is pretty evident after only a few hours that the engine was gone, chain snapped head had series damage he said it was pretty bad..
On a plus side though this price is inclusive of the re-build also so the price should include full fix.
I know I speak for many when i say "Not another one" I know people say this isn't an issue but thats nearly 6 on this forum alone.
It's a stressful road ahead but just keep fighting them for as much discount as possible. On another positive note mine fealt MINT when I got it back, practically a new car fingers crossed for a whole new engine that's your best outcome for a fair price.
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This is practically identical to the way mine went.
Exactly the same, actually.
Authorise the dealer to strip the engine, if it is the tensioner failure (which it will be) then it will be free. If the cams are at all angles and there is no compression you're on a boat.
Just keep wangling with them when it comes to good will, I ended up getting all the work done and a new engine for £196.
It's becoming so much more prevalent now with this model and year of GTI, it must be a major embarrassment for VW. I'm surprised it hasn't made it to watchdog yet, but you'll be happy to hear that VWUK are quite good to deal with over the matter.
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Have just got mine back last night from the same tensioner failure and full engine replacement after a shocking 3 week wrangle
with the dealer over the costs I would liable for. ( fully detailed on another thread )
From what you described Poached with the TPL Codes your dealer has offered 2025206/6 it shows that different dealers may
be prescribing different advice at the outset as to the procedure to determine when the new engine is offered.
Looking at my Invoice they detail the same TPL Code of 2025206/6 from the initial diagnostics BUT suggested no partial strip down and my own understanding of the whole tensioner problem is that because VW Germany is VERY aware of the issue that
as soon as this error code is confirmed by the dealer they accept and agree without much further information being required to supply on the F.O.C basis. They will do this almost willingly as accepting the liability of the original defective part they specified. As others have suggested this is as far, unless the car is fully under warranty that they will go and will not contribute to any labour costs to take out and reinstall.
For any element of doubt VW Technical confirmed in writing to my Case handler at VW C.S. that the time as allocated to all VW dealerships for this work is 14 hours and x the hourly rate then charged by dealership gives the total Invoice charge. This becomes the bench mark cost of around £1150 before any further goodwill that may be offered to an owner for various reasons.
So with the same TPL codes showing some dealers want to spend time stripping down to confirm its a dead engine and some dont go any further than the first diagnostics. Surely they have enough data based evidence now to show on these TSI's on the build dates recognized that this error code leads only to a new engine without spending further time doing a further strip down
incurring more costs to the owner.
The dealer mine was at wanted £2350 for the work claiming it was a 22 hour job and by much help from Customer Services
and 10 days of not rolling over and giving in to them the work was agreed at £1152.00 and then reduced on final Invoice to £893.76.
I now have written to Watchdog, the Parent Holding Company of the Dealership and VW Germany - my Case Handler so shocked by the way my case was dealt with by the Dealer and the shafting they thought appropriate that she has given all the details to the UK VW Brand Manager who is now going to investigate.
So do question them Poached on why others require no partial strip down on this TPL fault code and Germany agrees a new engine without further investigation.
If you require any further details showing this on my Invoice let me know and can send it yo ya.
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Sorry to read this. :angry:
This is getting far to common which is what I was worried about but expecting since I first brought this issue to light on this forum after reading about it on others.
Maybe it would be worth if I can get some time or maybe someone else could do it could bring all the threads on this forum together in one place about this issue.
Ive comented on them all so should not be too hard to find them.
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The problem is if Watchdog get run with this, it could have a negative effect when trying to sell the car in he future.
I know it's got nothing to do with the cause of this, but I wonder if VW check the ECU for remapping with a view to avoiding any liability.
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Watchdog will have little to no effects on selling.
The internet has more effect as people now google cars and look at places like honest john.
Watchdog may though shame vw into fixing the problem rather than just keeping it hush hush.
I first found out about this from the americans who arnt happy but they have a very good vw warrenty package that covers it for many years to come. Can you imagine the stink from them if they all had to pay £1k to fix it!
When I then brought it to the the attention of this forum It was dismissed....until cars started going bang...
Im sorry but I think its a bloody disgrace VWuk charging owners to fix whats obviously a design issue and they know it is!
VWgermany are supplying engines free snd they wouldn't if this was not the case or put in etka a warning to not use old revisions of the tensioner that fails.
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The problem is if Watchdog get run with this, it could have a negative effect when trying to sell the car in he future.
I know it's got nothing to do with the cause of this, but I wonder if VW check the ECU for remapping with a view to avoiding any liability.
They didn't check mine
Albeit the flash counter read as "0" :rolleyes:
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Remap cant be blamed for a design fault. They may try and use it as an excuse but the fault doesnt occur because the engine has been pushed beyond its limits
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Confirmation that the Tensioner was at fault resulting in some bent valves and damage to pistons.
A new engine is required for which VW will cover the cost for. The next stage is to agree a sensible settlement with regards to a £2k labour bill :rolleyes:.
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Confirmation that the Tensioner was at fault resulting in some bent valves and damage to pistons.
A new engine is required for which VW will cover the cost for. The next stage is to agree a sensible settlement with regards to a £2k labour bill :rolleyes:.
Its a 14 hour time charge Poached on Fried engine out and new one in - that VW Technical confirmed to my VWCS Case handler and to which the dealers given the system info for to time requirements.
Even with some strip down to investigate its nowhere near a £2k job as Jimmy will confirm on previous threads - more like a £1350 job before any goodwill that maybe offered. The goodwill is then calculated at 30% dealer matched by 70% VWUK but only applies when the dealer offers goodwill and to which VWUK cannot force them to.
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That quote was inclusive of strip down costs. I have raised a case with VW CC...
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Car is now back - settled at £670.
Nearly 4 weeks in a 1.4 felt a long time...
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Guys do you think it is worth taking out the extended warranty from VW to cover these issues?
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Car is now back - settled at £670.
Nearly 4 weeks in a 1.4 felt a long time...
You beat me by a fiver :angry:
Although now realised my Berghaus jacket had been swiped out of the boot when it was in there wan&*$s!!
Oh well there loss they will never see my car again.....
Congrats don't know if it was just me having also driving round in a 1.4 for 3 weeks but the car certainly felt fast when I first got in it back. Do be afraid to give it some beans to help the seals in...
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Guys do you think it is worth taking out the extended warranty from VW to cover these issues?
There was another GTI in a week before my engine failed because of a tensioner, it was covered by the extended warranty and seemed to be a no questions asked replacement.
Depends on how much it costs I guess.
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They have offered me a 3yr warranty for £699. Works out to about £20 a month. Thinking it may be worth it.
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Car is now back - settled at £670.
Nearly 4 weeks in a 1.4 felt a long time...
You beat me by a fiver :angry:
Although now realised my Berghaus jacket had been swiped out of the boot when it was in there wan&*$s!!
Oh well there loss they will never see my car again.....
Congrats don't know if it was just me having also driving round in a 1.4 for 3 weeks but the car certainly felt fast when I first got in it back. Do be afraid to give it some beans to help the seals in...
Yeh I wont be dithering around in it :smiley:.
It wasn't straight forward though, I actually went to collect the car on Friday. When running through the paperwork it was observed the Blower motor wasn't working for the Heater. I had to refuse the vehicle as it was 100% operational before the engine failed. So the Dealership paid for the Blower motor to be replaced.
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They have offered me a 3yr warranty for £699. Works out to about £20 a month. Thinking it may be worth it.
Do you modify and where do you service the vehicle?
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I have just brought the car on Saturday. Brought a milltek last night and am looking for some LED rear lights. Do they void the warranty for after market mods?
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I have just brought the car on Saturday. Brought a milltek last night and am looking for some LED rear lights. Do they void the warranty for after market mods?
It wouldn't surprise me if they voided a claim but it might depend on the Dealer. I wouldn't worry about the lights though.
Some dealers may say all mods void warranty regardless of whether they may have aggravated a failure whereas others may be more sensible about causality.
With visually apparent mods I guess it may increase suspicion and further investigation.
What year is the car? I'm guessing an earlier model as you want to fit LED rears :smiley:.
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Yes it's a 2009 Gti. I brought it for my wife but just enjoy doing small tasteful changes. However I have been reading it is a bit of a nightmare getting RHD LED rear lights. Any ideas? :wink: