GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: mullermn on 14 October 2013, 09:47
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I notice that the temperature has started to dip to 7 degrees ish in the mornings now, so by the time I get my car the conditions will probably be appropriate to go straight to winter tyres, if I decide to go for them.
I've not tried winter tyres before so I'm not really sure which ones I should be looking at, how much they'll cost, or who I should go to to get them swapped over (I wasn't planning on getting additional wheels to put them on). Is this the sort of job that any old tyre place should do well, or is there scope for them to mess it up?
Thanks for any advice!
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Fitting winter tyres is no different to normal tyres, so as long as you are happy with your chosen tyre fitters, what can go wrong? However swapping tyres on and off the rims now and again in the spring will increase the chances of accidental tyre fitting related damage happening.
I've got a spare set of wheels with my tyres fitted. I can generally get 3 winters out of a set, so if you think of it as being £40 each time you swap your tyres, over 3 years that's £240. The price of a half decent set of secondhand alloys. Alternatively, many online tyre companies (as well as VW) can supply you with a set of ready to bolt on steel wheels and winter tyres.
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I live in Switzerland where, although not a legal requirement (your insurance pay out can be reduced in case of accident), 99% of cars have winter tyres.
These are usually a set of complete wheels with tyres. I have changed my own for the last 25 years here. It's a 35-minute job and I have a torque wrench to ensure the nuts are correctly tensioned.
With a GTI the tyres should theoretically be 'V' rated. And as I drive round for 5 months of the year (beginning of Nov to end of March) reckon that I'd like fairly decent looking 18" alloys and 225 x 40 tyres. These will cost me the same as a set of summer wheels. I find that I get at least 5 years out of a set and of course while the winter ones are on, the summer ones get no wear at all!
It is generally accepted that winter tyres should not be used about about 7°C as this will lead to excessive wear. Also, while tempting, 'all-weather' tyres for year round use simply don't cut it. I can assure you that winter tyres really make a difference in snow. They tend to be noisier than summer ones, though.
There are plenty of videos like this one demonstrating the advantages:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elP_34ltdWI
Funnily enough, when I enquired about winter tyres in the Uk 30 years ago, I was told they weren't available for my then car (Toyota Celica Supra) and only about 400 winter tyres were sold a year in the UK...
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Do we really need winter tyres in the UK? I thought the purpose was to have more grip in snowy conditions but unless you're living in the middle of nowhere your normal tyres are fine?
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Do we really need winter tyres in the UK? I thought the purpose was to have more grip in snowy conditions but unless you're living in the middle of nowhere your normal tyres are fine?
I wouldn’t have thought there was much call for them in Bristol (OP’s location), maybe in the upper reaches of Scotland. If there’s more than a few inches of snow then you probably shouldn’t be taking the car out. Common sense, a good degree of control and no winter tyres has always got to be better than driving as if the conditions are normal, just because you have winter tyres on. You can go to the Nth degree on anything to make life easier or minimise risk. People in most of the UK will get on fine if they act sensibly and respect the potential dangers associated with ice and snow on the roads.
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Do we really need winter tyres in the UK? I thought the purpose was to have more grip in snowy conditions but unless you're living in the middle of nowhere your normal tyres are fine?
There is a widespread misunderstanding about winter tyres. Many believe that they are designed purely to deal with snow and ice, but the real key to their success is the nature of the rubber compound. This is formulated so that it offers greater adhesion at low temperatures than that of conventional "summer" tyres. The tyres we tend to drive on most of the time only exhibit their full adhesive qualities once they are warm, whereas winter tyres will be gripping well at temperatures below 7 degrees C.
Although the winter may, or may not, bring snow and ice, wet weather is bound to be a feature in the coming months an it is when the roads are wet and cold that winter tyres come into there own, providing the extra grip which can make all the difference.
The problem, of course, is cost. Once you have got over this and made the investment, your long term costs for tyre replacement can be even lower because you are always riding on the right sort of rubber for the conditions and they actually last longer.
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Do we really need winter tyres in the UK? I thought the purpose was to have more grip in snowy conditions but unless you're living in the middle of nowhere your normal tyres are fine?
I wouldn't make it a law but winter tyres are more than just snow tyres. I've used them the last 4 years and I wouldn't be without them. The difference to grip in low temperatures is fairly substantial, on a normal tyre my car was twitchy and vague when it was cold and damp with my winters on I could feel far better what the car is doing.
I look at it this way there are plenty of guys at my work who say you don't need winter tyres, that's fine but my car doesn't smell of burning clutch or sit halfway up the hill on a patch of polished snow. I always got to my work without winter tyres but now I get to my work without straining the car as much to do it and more importantly when I brake the car pulls up much better than it does on the normal tyres.
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Do we really need winter tyres in the UK? I thought the purpose was to have more grip in snowy conditions but unless you're living in the middle of nowhere your normal tyres are fine?
Definitely depends where you live, I'm in the north east of Scotland and winter (cold weather) tyres make my life a lot easier. It's not just about snow, although they are obviously more suited to those conditions, but for the next 4-5 months it will mostly be below freezing when I'm commuting to and from work. (-23C worst I've seen) In these cold, and often wet conditions, it is so much easier to drive with tyres designed for purpose.
My Mk5 GTI with good summer tyres (Goodyear F1's) had the steering accuracy of a sledge in the snow or slushy conditions, and the improvement in all cold conditions make it the sensible choice for me.
Pity my winter tyres for Mk5 won't fit on my PP equipped Mk 7 :sad:
Got a set of 225-40-18 winter tyres from Camskill for a reasonable price, will probably get at least 3 winters out of them and obviously will not be using my summer tyres for any miles at this time. Cost wise over 3 years it pretty much evens out for me with not having to replace my summer tyres so often.
Big hit this time though as I've decided to put BBS alloys on for the winter :laugh:, couldn't bear having rubbish alloys on my new car :embarrassed:, and too much to ask that the tyre fitting monkeys don't damage the original alloys if I were get them changed over twice a year.
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"My Mk5 GTI with good summer tyres (Goodyear F1's) had the steering accuracy of a sledge in the snow or slushy conditions, and the improvement in all cold conditions make it the sensible choice for me."
:grin:
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I've put winter tyres on my Mark 6 for each of the three winters that I've had it, and I wouldn't do otherwise now. I have a set of the 16" Aspen alloys from VW - they were around £110 each. Tyres are Continental TS830s. All the Continental winter tyres get good reviews. I used to run steel wheels but they started going manky, so I switched to alloys, which look far better and won't rust.
It's not just the safety aspect for me - it's the cost to replace things if I have an "incident". I'd much rather pay £110 to replace an Aspen alloy than pay £450 to replace a Seattle Shadow wheel. And I don't really care if the winter wheels get covered in muck either.
My local tyre place charged me £15 last year to swap everything over, and I paid £40 or so to get the winter tyres fitted to the wheels. I have a tyre/wheel stand from eBay that lives in the shed that has the set I'm not using on. To keep them clean, I use a set of the VW wheel/tyre covers.
My winter set will go on the car in the next few weeks - it depends on the weather. I don't want to have to clean my summer set in pouring rain (not so bothered about it being cold).
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Good info, thanks - sounds like an extra set of wheels is the route to go.
You're right that Bristol isn't Scotland, but we have got our fair share of hills and the last couple of winters have paralysed the roads when there has been snow or ice. Last winter I walked in to town in one of the really bad freezing spells and on one very steep hill there was a van that had slid backwards in to a garden wall and the driver had got out and abandoned it, but not before tethering the front wheel to a nearby lamppost with a ratchet strap! I also make the occasional trip to North Wales and the Lakes and it'd be nice to know I've got the tyres for the job if the weather does turn.
Looks like I need to decide if I can put up with some cheap but ugly steel wheels or whether I want to stump up for some extra alloys for the winter months.
I've got the 18" wheels coming on the GTI. A lot of people seem to use smaller wheels for the winter set - is this price related or is there some other reason for doing this?
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Do we really need winter tyres in the UK? I thought the purpose was to have more grip in snowy conditions but unless you're living in the middle of nowhere your normal tyres are fine?
There is a widespread misunderstanding about winter tyres. Many believe that they are designed purely to deal with snow and ice, but the real key to their success is the nature of the rubber compound. This is formulated so that it offers greater adhesion at low temperatures than that of conventional "summer" tyres. The tyres we tend to drive on most of the time only exhibit their full adhesive qualities once they are warm, whereas winter tyres will be gripping well at temperatures below 7 degrees C.
Although the winter may, or may not, bring snow and ice, wet weather is bound to be a feature in the coming months an it is when the roads are wet and cold that winter tyres come into there own, providing the extra grip which can make all the difference.
The problem, of course, is cost. Once you have got over this and made the investment, your long term costs for tyre replacement can be even lower because you are always riding on the right sort of rubber for the conditions and they actually last longer.
+1
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I've got the 18" wheels coming on the GTI. A lot of people seem to use smaller wheels for the winter set - is this price related or is there some other reason for doing this?
I dropped down a wheel size for a couple of reasons, firstly right enough a 17" winter tyre is cheaper than an 18" one and when you do have rutted snow and ice you get a slightly more comfortable ride on a tyre with a deeper side wall
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I've got the 18" wheels coming on the GTI. A lot of people seem to use smaller wheels for the winter set - is this price related or is there some other reason for doing this?
I had 16" winters on my Mk5, I liked the understated look.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q158/grantinnes/image-39.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/grantinnes/media/image-39.jpg.html)
I've gone with 18" this time, not a huge cost difference between tyre size. Ride quality was transformed with the 16" but the ride quality on the mk 7 is so good I'm happy to go 18" this time.
http://www.rimstyle.com/alloywheels/wheel/?wheel=bbs_sr_gm&colour=gunmetal_anthracite
These alloys should be with me tomorrow, grey colour great for not looking dirty even in the middle of winter.
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....... Is this the sort of job that any old tyre place should do well, or is there scope for them to mess it up?
Thanks for any advice!
I've had 3 wheels damaged by tyre fitters replacing tyres. 2 at the same time on my golf and 1 on my wifes Suzuki.
On the Golf they removed the old weights with a screwdriver so you can imagine the mess they made. On my wifes they scratched right across the face of the alloy but she never noticed until the next day and didn't want to make a scene. So to answer your question, yes tyre fitters can mess things up.
I got myself a second hand set of alloys off ebay and had them powder coated. I also bought winter tyres off mytyres.com so the powder coaters could change them at the same time free of charge.I bought cheap Nankang tyres and must say I have been really impressed with them. Loads of grip and a lot quieter than the continentals already on the car.
Like Dubber has pointed out, changing tyres over twice a year soon ads up and another set of wheels will pay for itself.
I recently bought my daughter an alloys and tyre package.
I looked at www.mytyres.com as they offer a package of alloys and tyres. Just as I was about to pull the trigger I spotted http://www.wheelbasealloys.com/ and they price matched and also included new bolts. So for £400 for a full set (its only a Clio she has) I was well chuffed. That was with Yokohama winter tyres as well.
I was just reading the other day that Continental recommend that if you haven't got the facilities to store tyres and swap them over, then you would actually be better off running winter tyres the whole year round. I thought that was interesting considering they would want you to buy both sets. It makes good reading:
http://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/www/tyres_uk_en/themes/van-tyres/winter-tyres/why-winter-tyres.html
"If you are reluctant to change tyres and have nowhere to store summer tyres when they are not in use, you are better off using winter tyres all year round.
Winter tyres are as quiet and comfortable as summer tyres and, thanks to sophisticated compound technology, do not wear any more quickly."
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I can't say that I'd agree with using winter tyres all year round, especially not on a performance orientated car. When the ambient temperature rises into the teens, I've noticed them become quite squirmy. As if you can feel the tread blocks moving about.
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Fair dos Dubber but in the same token would you rather have summer tyres in winter?
I just thought it was interesting that a big company like Continental could easily go down the road of promoting the correct tyres for the correct season, but chose to go with winter tyres all year round if you don't have an option.
They obviously see that as safer rather than the summer tyres all year round.
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Fair dos Dubber but in the same token would you rather have summer tyres in winter?
Not now I've had winters, no.
A huge generalisation here, but I think that drivers in winter on summer tyres are more likely to drive with much more caution, seeing the potential dangers, than they would in summer with winter tyres. On a nice warm summers day, you would be more likely to press on, without giving a thought to what the tyres may be capable of.
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What you say is maybe a generalisation but most likely true.
Probably for a "normal family hatch" the winter tyres all round would be better.
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My winter tyres are much noisier than my summer ones, so for me at least, leaving the winters on all year around is a no-no.
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What ones have you got?
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Winter tyres will soon be run down using them throughout the year. The softer compound wears down rapidly on hot tarmac...
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What ones have you got?
Continental TS830P. The ratings system says 72 decibels, which compares to 69 decibels for the Goodyear Asymmetric 2s I have on the car at the moment. Other than the noise, which I can live with, they are a very good tyre and there's still a decent amount of tread left after three winters.
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As a side note to all year use I put a set of all season tyres (Goodyear vectors) on my S80 last November. Rears still good now with 31k miles on the clock since then.
(Front pair only lasted 20k due to a serious tracking issue).
Yes, noticeably noisier on smooth roads and a less grip when the air temp was greater than 25C compared with my normal Goodyear F1s. However no contest November to March though.
Sadly the Vectors aren't available in 18" as I would be tempted once the delivery tyres need replacing.
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Winter tyres will soon be run down using them throughout the year. The softer compound wears down rapidly on hot tarmac...
Yeah that was one of my concerns when I bought mine as thats what the general feeling on most forums I looked at.
However Continental say the opposite:
"Winter tyres are as quiet and comfortable as summer tyres and, thanks to sophisticated compound technology, do not wear any more quickly."
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What ones have you got?
Continental TS830P. The ratings system says 72 decibels, which compares to 69 decibels for the Goodyear Asymmetric 2s I have on the car at the moment. Other than the noise, which I can live with, they are a very good tyre and there's still a decent amount of tread left after three winters.
You wouldn't think 3dbs would make that much difference but obviously does.
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My Dunlop Winter Sport 4Ds are much quieter than my Conti 5s
Not sure if going from 18s to 17s makes a difference as well.
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What ones have you got?
Continental TS830P. The ratings system says 72 decibels, which compares to 69 decibels for the Goodyear Asymmetric 2s I have on the car at the moment. Other than the noise, which I can live with, they are a very good tyre and there's still a decent amount of tread left after three winters.
You wouldn't think 3dbs would make that much difference but obviously does.
Remember it's a logarithmic scale - 3db difference (between 69 and 72 dB) is double the volume!
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Posted by: ginnes
« on: 14 October 2013, 13:39 » Insert Quote
Quote from: mullermn on 14 October 2013, 13:01
I've got the 18" wheels coming on the GTI. A lot of people seem to use smaller wheels for the winter set - is this price related or is there some other reason for doing this?
I've gone with 18" this time, not a huge cost difference between tyre size. Ride quality was transformed with the 16" but the ride quality on the mk 7 is so good I'm happy to go 18" this time.
http://www.rimstyle.com/alloywheels/wheel/?wheel=bbs_sr_gm&colour=gunmetal_anthracite
These alloys should be with me tomorrow, grey colour great for not looking dirty even in the middle of winter.
The BBS alloys look great - a picture of them once you have them on would be good to see!
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I've just ordered a set of alloy wheels and tyres for my car which is arriving tomorrow. I always use delti www.mytyres.co.uk as they seem to have reasonable prices. I wanted a simple matt black 5 spoke wheel so chose the new Dezent TD alloy. After a lot of humming and hawing and reading tyrereviews.com, I finally settled on the Dunlop WinterSport 4D as it seemed to be one of the quieter tyres. Also in the reckoning were the Goodyear Ultragrip 8 Performance (also quiet), the Conti TS830P and the Michelin Alpin A4. Price and reviews on the Dunlop sealed the deal. 17" are quite expensive, if you don't have a Performance Pack, then 16" are reasonably good value.
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Quote from: mullermn on 14 October 2013, 13:01
The BBS alloys look great - a picture of them once you have them on would be good to see!
Will post a pic on the car, probably next week by the time I get the tyres fitted.
Wheels arrived today,
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q158/grantinnes/image-29.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user//media/image-29.jpg.html)
Crappy phone photo, colour is more grey/anthracite than it looks. Wheels feel really quite light.
Only downside is that the wheels were delivered to my house instead of my work as I requested, so my wife now thinks a major shopping trip for her is required...
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Having had a flat tyre and having to change the wheel by the side of the road last night, this has got me thinking - if you change the size of the wheel for the winter tyres what happens about the spare? Is the overall size close enough that you can use the standard spare if you have to?
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Having had a flat tyre and having to change the wheel by the side of the road last night, this has got me thinking - if you change the size of the wheel for the winter tyres what happens about the spare? Is the overall size close enough that you can use the standard spare if you have to?
Yes, the outside rolling diameter of the wheel will be close, if not the same.
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205-55-16's, 225-45-17's & 225-40-18's are all pretty much the same overall diameter.
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205-55-16's, 225-45-17's & 225-40-18's are all pretty much the same overall diameter.
Yes, true. I found this little calculator which works very well, just put in the old and new sizes
http://www.etyres.co.uk/tyre-size-calculator
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You would probably be better using a tyre calculator that tells you how changing your wheels or tyres will affect your actual speed.
http://www.tire-size-calculator.info/
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I've just ordered a set of alloy wheels and tyres for my car which is arriving tomorrow. I always use delti www.mytyres.co.uk as they seem to have reasonable prices. I wanted a simple matt black 5 spoke wheel so chose the new Dezent TD alloy. After a lot of humming and hawing and reading tyrereviews.com, I finally settled on the Dunlop WinterSport 4D as it seemed to be one of the quieter tyres. Also in the reckoning were the Goodyear Ultragrip 8 Performance (also quiet), the Conti TS830P and the Michelin Alpin A4. Price and reviews on the Dunlop sealed the deal. 17" are quite expensive, if you don't have a Performance Pack, then 16" are reasonably good value.
Ginnes - Will up be putting the BBS centre caps on or do you have any VW ones to fit?
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Quote from: mullermn on 14 October 2013, 13:01
The BBS alloys look great - a picture of them once you have them on would be good to see!
Will post a pic on the car, probably next week by the time I get the tyres fitted.
Wheels arrived today,
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q158/grantinnes/image-29.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user//media/image-29.jpg.html)
Crappy phone photo, colour is more grey/anthracite than it looks. Wheels feel really quite light.
Only downside is that the wheels were delivered to my house instead of my work as I requested, so my wife now thinks a major shopping trip for her is required...
Sorry Ginnes inserted the wrong quote previously!
Will u be using the BBS centre caps or have you got some VW ones?
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Trial fit of my winter wheels/tyres. BBS alloys/Dunlop winter sports tyres. Sticking with the BBS centre caps.
Crappy phone pic, but you get the idea.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q158/grantinnes/image-32.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/grantinnes/media/image-32.jpg.html)
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BTW - if you are changing the size of the wheels fitted to your car (for winter tyres) you should, at least, inform your insurance company. Some won't be interested, but I know some are...
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For the record, LV don't care about winter tyres. Back in 2010, I rang up and they charged me £35 or so (I got most of that back the following March). Come October 2011, when I called them up, they said that I didn't have to tell them and there would be no change to my premium as so many people were now putting winter tyres on their cars.
Contrast with Direct Line, who said they'd charge me £250, around 50% of my premium. Fortunately I was within the cooling-off period and was able to cancel.
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Here is a list of insurance companies that either need to be told or not whether you have winter tyres.
https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/Files/Documents/Publications/Public/Migrated/Motor/ABI%20guide%20to%20winter%20tyres%20The%20motor%20insurance%20commitment.ashx
Its worth remembering if you have the winter tyres on another set of alloys, you will probably have to tell them especially if they aren't OEM.
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Here is a list of insurance companies that either need to be told or not whether you have winter tyres.
https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/Files/Documents/Publications/Public/Migrated/Motor/ABI%20guide%20to%20winter%20tyres%20The%20motor%20insurance%20commitment.ashx
Its worth remembering if you have the winter tyres on another set of alloys, you will probably have to tell them especially if they aren't OEM.
...and if they are a different size to OEM...
The point here is, that most (all) will not be interested if you put winter tyres on OEM wheels but if you alter the size they may consider that a modification...
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Not just a different size, even the same size but a different wheel could be classed as a mod.
When I phoned my insurance company to ask about putting winter tyres on, I told them I would be putting the same size tyre on but on a different set of wheels. They were fine with that as long as they were actual Audi wheels. Any 3rd party wheel would be classed as a mod.
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I ordered a set of wheels from mrwinterwheels, they say their wheels are TUV approved so I have asked for a copy of the cert or declaration. (Will see if they can actually provide one).
From what I gather this proves that the wheels are as good as OEM and type approved for that vehicle.
I don't see what else an insurance company could want for.
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Insurance companies are a strange lot.
After market wheels may be classed as more desirable so a greater chance of being stolen hence an increase in policy.
I'd definitely let them know.
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True. And still no TUV certificate... I can see me cancelling if they can't produce the document.. :sad:
Edit: Cancelled order as they couldn't provide a valid TUV certificate to me. I'll reorder if they can in the future.