GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Ricepop on 07 October 2013, 10:05
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I've had enough.
I have decided that I cant take any more waiting. Its been 25 weeks now and I have just been told that its going to be another 4 weeks until I get the car.
I have found a pristine Mk 5 GTI down the road that I can buy without any finance or hassle.
VW are just taking too long.
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Really sad to hear that pal.
Is it not worth the extra 4 weeks? After all you've been waiting so long! Or, do you think they're lying to you?
Has the car been built yet? Is it on the production line?
Chin up :smiley:
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It built and on the port at Emden.
The problem is that I am bored of the car already and I don't even have it. I am not looking forward to getting it now I just resent the wait. I think that when it turns up I won't be able to see past the months of misery it has given me.
Its going to be close to 7 months by the time it turns up.
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It built and on the port at Emden.
The problem is that I am bored of the car already and I don't even have it. I am not looking forward to getting it now I just resent the wait. I think that when it turns up I won't be able to see past the months of misery it has given me.
Its going to be close to 7 months by the time it turns up.
Hang in there matey! You need to read the new arrivals section for some inspiration.
I feel sure that when you'er driving it that resentment will drain away.
You've come this far, the car's built, stick with it I say.
Don't let VW win :grin:
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4 weeks to go and you're cancelling? Seriously? Personally, I think you'd feel much differently after you'd had it for a few days. I saw one on the road yesterday and it thought it looked stunning.
Still, a car that's all yours without owing a penny for it has got to be a better financial proposition, even if the Mk5 does feel a little dated these days.
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The trouble is that the car represents a bucket load of stress.
I am worried that if it ever turns up I will just resent it.
When I see the pictures of other cars it just riles me up.
Another 4 weeks of waiting will send me insane.
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Don't cancel... If you do, just think... Someone who's not waited all this time will swan in to the Dealer and just buy your GTD, with all the options you ordered & wanted. No stress, they'll just drive away with it. Can you really cancel after all the waiting? It's just 4 weeks and it's yours. All yours. Hang in there!
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You won't resent it. Stick in there pal. 4 weeks is nothing to wait
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The car is built and waiting at the port and your going to cancel?! <-- Wow give that man a shake :huh:
For all you know it could be on the boat and here within a couple of days. You've done the hard bit why throw your toys out the pram now? Think back to when you ordered the car or when you made your mind up it was the MK7 GTD, bet you were like a kid at Christmas. I'm sure that feeling will come back once you pick it up.
Cutting your nose off to spite your face is never a good idea and if you think it will be teaching VW a lesson, think again. That car will just get sold and probably for a dearer price.
If you want some retribution get on VW's facebook or twitter page once you have the car, they hate that :smug:
Don't take it out on the car, its sitting all alone waiting on you, its rightful owner :grin:
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I'm trying to get hold of my dealer at mo - I'm fed up with waiting too
I fully understand where your coming from Ricepop
Absolute madness waiting this long
Mine is company car - but if it was my own - I would have probably cancelled by now myself
On the other hand - all that stress and waiting for nothing?
Take some deep breaths fella - and have a think before doing anything hasty :)
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The car is at the port and quote:"may get on a boat on the 24th but not before"
There is nothing they can do to hurry it along apparently.
If I'm honest I couldn't give a crap about who wins or loses, its not a battle to me its just stress.
I cant remember how I felt when I ordered the car, its been so long.
I have looked at all the brochures and reviews over and over, I've been for test drives (I went yesterday) and spoken to the dealer.
I was far more taken with the Mk 5 GTI I drove. once the excitement of having a new car wears off (and it did months ago) you start to consider costs and things.
In 3 years time the Mk 7 will have no money left in it but I will be forced to replace it, whereas the Mk5 will probably have £7K left in it. As I said you don't worry too much when you are excited about getting a brand new car but when you have the time to think about it you start having your doubts.
I saw a Mk 7 GTI on the road for the first time last week in some crap grey, it didn't Inspire me.
Also VW have given me a 1.2 Polo to run around in, I actually think it drives better than the golf (a little down on power though).
You feel really connected to the road and it responds much better. I don't believe for a second it is quicker or handles better but it is more fun.
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At the end of the day the decision is obviously yours and only you know exactly how you are feeling about it.
But to others looking in, it looks like you've ran a marathon and with 100yards to go thought, "Feck it, I can't be bothered any more" and wonder off in the other direction.
Like you say, after the excitement of buying it weans off you do start to think about costs and other things. Sounds like the length of time you've had to wait has been just too much. It reminds me of the saying "idle hands make the devil's work" :evil:
Good luck on whatever way you go. Both great cars.
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cant see any mark 5 being worth 7k in 3years :whistle: i might be wrong though
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cant see any mark 5 being worth 7k in 3years :whistle: i might be wrong though
A Pirelli might. Is is a Pirelli?
I can see what he's saying tho'. If he buys a used car, it will still be worth something. If he gets a new car on a PCP, after 3 years what will he have?
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cant see any mark 5 being worth 7k in 3years :whistle: i might be wrong though
A Pirelli might. Is is a Pirelli?
I can see what he's saying tho'. If he buys a used car, it will still be worth something. If he gets a new car on a PCP, after 3 years what will he have?
but mk5 gtis can be bought for as little as 4k now ok the pirelli and edition 30 will hold there value a little better but not by much unless its low miles and mint :whistle:
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The problem is that I am bored of the car already and I don't even have it. I am not looking forward to getting it now I just resent the wait. I think that when it turns up I won't be able to see past the months of misery it has given me.
This is basically what happened to me. All the excitement wore off and I just keep seeing the bottom line I was going to be paying and started to question why I was spending that amount of money and not enjoying it.
You've got to do the right thing for you. I'm sure all the guys on here will say don't cancel and people like me will say cancel. Ignore it all and make your own choice.
I will say this though. The car I switched to was delivered with a unbelievable discount and less than 1 month from order placed to driving away. The result is that the experience of buying was very enjoyable and I have that extra good feeling when I’m driving it that I was looked after during the process and that I got a real bargain.
This is of course completely personal and it being true for me doesn't make it true for you or anyone else. At four weeks to go I'd think hard about it, but if you've got fed up with things and think there is a better deal for you elsewhere then pull the plug.
Let us know what you decide.
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If it were me in your shoes right now I'd wait. If it was going to be a lot longer than 4 weeks and I could get something I wanted as much in less time than the remaining wait I had I would probably cancel as well.
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It sounds to me like buying the car was never the right decision financially for you and now that the 'shiny new car that nobody else has' excitement that clouded your brain has worn off, the lingering thought of underlying costs and diminishing value will ruin your enjoyment of actually having the car. If so, I think cancelling is the way to go because that feeling will only grow stronger...
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No one got more wound up than me (well, maybe some of you :laugh:) but I can honestly say that all that stuff disappears when you pick the car up. If it was me I'd hang in there, honestly it is worth the wait.
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If you go for a new model or version of a car a wait is to be expected. But VW really have shafted a lot of people.
As Bill said, other manufacturers will get you a car quicker, but you won't have that exclusive factor.
I waited and I am sure I wont regret it, but I could have had a CLS, A Class AMG, a C-Class coupe or a BMW 5 series within weeks if not days, but I could not settle for that.
If it's a matter of weeks, the hang in there. It could be the best car you have ever had!
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Stick in there Ricepop, it will be worth it when it arrives. We have all been through the frustration and anger but it does all disappear when your shiny new car is unveiled in front of you.
Finish the marathon, get the medal, get the GTD ! :smiley:
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I kind of agree that you should stick it out. I would think that your exasperation will evaporate once the car arrives. I have been a silent, non-complaining sufferer unlike many on here. I am no fan of Volkwagen UK and try to avoid all their dealers like the plague. If it weren't for the lovely service only MJ Warner in Hertfordshire, I wouldn't be buying a VW at all. I ordered through a broker as I couldn't bear the nasty lowlife, fawning, ill-informed, unhelpful, badly-dressed, chavvy, unctious salesmen in at least three of VW's home counties dealers. Sorry if this is over-the-top, but VW dealers are truly, truly awful in this country.
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Did you cancel then?
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I can understand if he did.
I can understand peoples views after they got their car too but thise may change in the coming years as the newness and exclusivity wares off.
In 2 or 3 years time though he will not be exclusive or even months. (Ive seen quite a few GTDs now)
But the thoughts of the stress and anger will be there.
I waited 7 months for my mk6 and it still taints the experience. Far more so now many years down the line.
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I completely understand. I'm a little less patient than you so I binned my order after a few weeks when I was told it had already been pushed back 2 months. Then the implications of buying a brand new car set in and I decided to go second hand again. Got a 2009 A3 TDI for £9k with full Audi service history. Drove it away that day and have been extremely pleased with it so far. Ok it doesn't drive as nicely as the GTD but for over £15k less I can accept that lol.
Like Bill said you know what you want better than anyone else. The GTD is a fantastic car (although not without its problems judging from some of the posts) but saying you may or may not feel better once you've driven it away wouldn't be enough for me to throw that massive chunk of money at it.
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Its all gone quite.........
No I haven't cancelled yet. I was quite angry about the progress on Monday, I have learnt that making decisions when you are angry almost always results in the wrong decision.
I have spent considerable time working through the figures to try and make up my mind, it turns out that the Mk 7 will be £4000 more expensive than a Mk 5 over 3 years providing that the Mk 5 never needs any repairs and the Mk 7 is worth £2000 more than the GFV (with haggling over a new car).
This doesn't really help as it is the figure you think you can swallow for a new car.
I did look on eBay last night and found the Mk7 GTDs are worth a fortune.
Listers in Stratford are selling one like mine without the satnav but a DSG with 1000 miles on it for £30k
This is £5K more than I am paying.
It also looks like the GTD is going to be worth considerably more than a GTI on the second hand market.
I think the point is that I can easily afford a new car (its only £230pm) and its the waiting that is driving me nuts.
For now I am not going to cancel, give it 10 minutes and I will be cancelling again probably.
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I have spent considerable time working through the figures to try and make up my mind, it turns out that the Mk 7 will be £4000 more expensive than a Mk 5 over 3 years providing that the Mk 5 never needs any repairs and the Mk 7 is worth £2000 more than the GFV (with haggling over a new car).
How the hell do you work that one out? At best the GTD will be worth 55% of it's original price when it's 3 years old. Meaning it will depreciate by £11,250 over that time. How ever much is the Mk5 that you are considering if it's going to drop £7,250 over the same time? Mk5's should have leveled out by now, so I can't see the cost of ownership being that much.
I did look on eBay last night and found the Mk7 GTDs are worth a fortune.
Listers in Stratford are selling one like mine without the satnav but a DSG with 1000 miles on it for £30k
This is £5K more than I am paying.
There is a big difference between what cars are actually "worth" and what Listers ask for them. Just say someone paid £30k for a car from them, then asked them for a valuation to buy it back in 12 months time. I bet they wouldn't see £20k for it.
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Ricepop:
£4k more expensive over 3 years? Have you taken everything into account there, like the value in driving away the MK7 with 4 shiny new tyres, new brakes that won’t need touching, having £20 or £30 a year tax (unless you are 5 door DSG) vs £165 a year for a MK5 170TDI, hopefully with better mpg (eventually!). I think there’s at least a grand there to consider in the MK7’s favour without delving into mpg gains and very likely decent insurance savings. I wouldn’t count on nowt going wrong on the MK5 either – the reassurance of that 3 year warranty on the MK7 has got to have some discernible value to you.
The GTD will be worth more than the GTI, maybe £1200-1500 more at 3 years old with average mileage – not a dealbreaker for many here.
I wouldn’t count on overinflated demo prices as a rock solid marker for residuals – they are trying their luck advertising full RRP for what is essentially a second hand car for people prepared to pay handsomely for jumping the queue.
I would count on £1000 more than GFV for a true p/x price against the next car – If you end up with £15500 p/x on a good condition 3 year old GTD, it will be up on the forecourt for £19k max, any more than that and what would be the point of anyone buying it over a new one? To get any more than £15500 p/x will be in lieu of true discount on the new car. If you are that hung up on the residuals then I would be minimising the options on your car, they will be worth almost nowt in the way of enhancing your p/x price - £3000 spent on options is £2400 - £2600 lost at trade in if you are only thinking about them in monetary terms.
What you can be sure of is that for the GTD you will not find a new £26k car with comparable performance, refinement and such generous standard equipment with cheaper running costs (thinking of ownership purely in cost of depreciation) – which is why I bought one. It is worth the wait
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I took into account how much more a Mk 5 GTI will be to run in terms of Fuel economy, tax, insurance and MOT, also my fuel allowance.
Basically it turns out that a MK5 GTI will cost the same as a new GTD on a monthly basis,
Its only when its time to sell it on that you make any gains.
Like you say though the chances of a Mk5 never breaking down cant be taken for granted.
By the way the Mk 5 GTI I found is in absolutely perfect condition, it still has the new car feel.
I wouldn't buy any Mk 5 other than a GTI, I think all of the others are really boring other than the R32 which is just too expensive to run.
Also from experience, the depreciation only levels off when the car is worth £500.
I bought a 3 year old Corsa for £4k (a bargain I thought) and sold it after 6 months for £2500 (it was crap)
I am paying £25125 for the GTD with a GFV of £13500.
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How the hell do you work that one out? At best the GTD will be worth 55% of it's original price when it's 3 years old. Meaning it will depreciate by £11,250 over that time. How ever much is the Mk5 that you are considering if it's going to drop £7,250 over the same time? Mk5's should have leveled out by now, so I can't see the cost of ownership being that much.
I would say to expect 60% of RRP back at p/x time on the standard spec car plus 10% of your options back on a GTD, considering the GFV is 56% (51% GFV on a GTI, so expect 55% back) – assuming average mileage of 10k per annum. If you consider that Ricepop maybe got 10% off RRP and it is worth 60% RRP at the end of 3 years in p/x for a 5 door manual then it will lose £7782 on what Ricepop will have paid. That MK5 will still depreciate because a 5 year old car is a lot more desirable than an 8 year old car. How much would a late (58/09) MK5 GT Sport 170TDI cost on the forecourt right now? Maybe £9k tops? You could probably pay £7k privately Add 3 years on (8.5 -9 years old) and the part ex price is likely to be £4.5k if you’re lucky.
So brand new GTD loses £7782 over 3 years but has at least £1000 cheaper running costs (coming with new tyres/brakes/massively cheaper tax/probable cheaper insurance), 5 year old MK5 170TDI loses £4500 if nothing requires replacing – There’s only about £2300 in it, or £1800 if you consider adding a decent warranty to give the same peace of mind on the MK5 as you will have on the new MK7. Consider you will hopefully get a reasonable 55mpg in the GTD vs 45mpg in the MK5, then you’ve shaved another £800 off.
£1000 more over 3 years to drive a brand new GTD (with it’s raft of extra equipment and refinement) over a 5 year old MK5 GT Sport 170TDI – this is surely the first truly “no brainer” out there? (£3k more if you buy the MK5 privately) Hang in there!
My MK5 GT Sport 170TDI was a great car for its time but massively unrefined compared to the MK7 with a harsh suspension ride, masses of tramping when trying to make a quick getaway from a busy roundabout. The MK7 is worth the extra £1k or even £3k (privately bought MK5) more. Figures like these prove time and again that it doesn’t cost much more to buy and run a new Golf GTI/GTD than it does to buy and run a 3 or even 5 year old example.
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I don't know why you would even consider a MK5 GTI. They are looking so dated nowadays.
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Hadn’t realised we were talking MK5 GTI rather than the MK5 equivalent to the GTD. Similar figures apply for GTI as per GT Sport TDI170 (depreciation), although fuel, insurance and car tax savings on the MK7 GTD are going to be even more pronounced, making it even better value to get the MK7 GTD. Similar 0-62 times (7.2s officially on MK5 GTI vs 7.5 on the GTD), although in gear acceleration on the GTD will be superior (it matches the MK6 GTI for 40-70mph in 4th/5th).
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I don't know why you would even consider a MK5 GTI. They are looking so dated nowadays.
+1 Great car at the time, I loved mine - but very dated now. Particularly in the cabin.
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Not taking options into account, he's told us that he's paying £25k for the car. Your assumption of a 10% discount would give the car a RRP of £27,777. 55% of that in 3 years time would be £15,277. Take that figure away from the original £25,000 and you're left with £9723 in deprciation. It's very simple maths, isn't it?
He also told us earlier that the Mk5 would be bought for cash, so there is also interest to add to the cost of the new GTD. Surely having an unencumbered car with no monthly payments is worth something?
When I said Mk5 values have leveled out, what I meant was they will not depreciate at anywhere near the rate of a much newer car in actual hard cash terms. A rule of thumb guide is that most cars will depreciate by 25% year on year. If you are starting with a much lower amount of money (i.e. the price of a Mk5 GTI) then it stands to reason that 25% year on year depreciation will be far less than that of a new car.
I fully understand that the new car will cost less to run as the Mk5 will require more replacement parts and servicing, but the savings made by choosing the older car will pay for all that and much much more. I know, I did it myself with my previous Passat that I had for 8 years.
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The Mk 5 GTI I was looking at is £10,000 for a 2008.
You can find them for £12,000.
That means that the Mk 5 GTI has lost 50% of its value in 5 years. (I know its a forecourt price)
Either way there are so many variables to consider its a nightmare. Add into this my company pays 15p per mile for the diesel and 18p per mile for the petrol. however I can claim 40% of the difference between that and 45p in tax.
Alternatively I could pay for my private miles at the above rates.
The more you look into it, the more complicated it gets.
If only I hade a nice shiny car to take my mind off it.
I rang the dealer to get an update on the progress of the GTD, guess what, he hasn't got back to me.
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It's very simple maths, isn't it?
Yes, it’s very simple maths. Nowt wrong with my maths on the assumptions I made either. You assume retained value less than GFV, 60% is more realistic. GFV is a worst case figure that isn’t massively out from reality, but is still out. You also assume that 55% will be retained on £2777 of optional equipment, which won’t be the case. The way I would consider depreciation, I would keep the cost of the car and the options apart – options will always cost you a lot of money unless they can be transferred to the next car and not everyone takes up options. You make a slightly different set of assumptions to mine and the difference can be a few thousand pounds. Taking into account significantly lower ongoing running costs (as I did, but you have not given any consideration to) wipes out some of the higher depreciation of the new car – you can’t avoid running costs.
Interest rates are subjective – some have the money sitting in the bank, some don’t. Some will get a loan cheaper than the rate VW finance is offering (bank loans of 5.0% APR are freely available to people with a decent credit rating).
In terms of depreciation we’re not taking most cars – by the terms you are talking in (25% year on year), the GTD would only be retaining 42% after 3 years. The biggest depreciation cost on any car bought from a forecourt is the forecourt’s profit margin. Buy a 4 year old £10k GTI and decide it isn’t for you, you’ll get offered £8k p/x if you’re being treated fairly, 20% wiped out immediately is usually the case. To have bought privately and run for 3 years is the smarter option – it will cut the OP’s depreciation in half vs going through a dealer – you have to be confident to know you’re not buying a lemon – reassurance of buying from a dealership comes at quite a price.
Everyone has their threshold of what they’re prepared to pay for a car and run it. I think I demonstrated competently that there isn’t a lot of money between running a new GTD (if you buy wisely, get a discount and minimise the options) and a 4 or 5 year old GTI which will have similar performance, but it’s lower depreciation will be countered with much higher running costs (fuel/road tax/insurance/potential for repairs and maintenance).
For running that car only 10k miles per year, if we assume the MK5 GTI will give an average of 35mpg and the GTD 55mpg (both 20% under book combined) over the 3 years, assume that the GTI is running 95RON at 135p per litre and GTD is running diesel at 140p per litre, and that the GTIs brakes/tyres are half worn (so consider half the cost of a set of tyres and pads), the GTI is a stonking £260 a year to tax vs £20 on a manual GTD.
The GTI costs £2942 more to run without even considering insurance implications (a MK5 GTI costs me almost twice as much to insure as a MK7 GTD/GTI):-
£1802 fuel
£740 tax (£780 vs 2 x £20 as first year on GTD is free)
£400 for half the cost of a set of tyres and brake pads
Higher mileages really open up that fuelling difference that will be significantly higher than the effect on depreciation for the higher mileage accrued on either car.
Bottom line is about £1500 PA depreciation lost on the the GTI plus £1000 PA in extra running costs over a 3 door GTD that if bought for 90% of RRP (exclude options) and retains 60% of it's RRP at 3 years old, loses £2500 per year or thereabouts. Result: Same cost to own, run for 3 years and sell on - excludes insurance implications (in GTDs favour in all cases) and interest costs (in GTIs favour, assuming buyer needs to borrow).
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The Mk 5 GTI I was looking at is £10,000 for a 2008.
You can find them for £12,000.
That means that the Mk 5 GTI has lost 50% of its value in 5 years. (I know its a forecourt price)
Either way there are so many variables to consider its a nightmare. Add into this my company pays 15p per mile for the diesel and 18p per mile for the petrol. however I can claim 40% of the difference between that and 45p in tax.
Alternatively I could pay for my private miles at the above rates.
The more you look into it, the more complicated it gets.
If only I hade a nice shiny car to take my mind off it.
I rang the dealer to get an update on the progress of the GTD, guess what, he hasn't got back to me.
At average 10k PA mileage, the only real difference between the 2 costs wise is losses to be made on your options, interest to be paid on the GTD loan you wouldn't need for the GTI and insurance, which would be lower for the GTD (I pay £270 for the GTD vs £505 quote on a MK5 GTI). You also have to consider the potential for costly out of warranty work on the MK5 GTI. The MK7 is massively better than the MK5 in every aspect.
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Hey Monkeyhanger, are you available for financial guidance hire?! :grin:
Some great advice there.
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Bottom line is about £1500 PA depreciation lost on the the GTI plus £1000 PA in extra running costs over a 3 door GTD that if bought for 90% of RRP (exclude options) and retains 60% of it's RRP at 3 years old, loses £2500 per year or thereabouts. Result: Same cost to own, run for 3 years and sell on - excludes insurance implications (in GTDs favour in all cases) and interest costs (in GTIs favour, assuming buyer needs to borrow).
I will agree with you with saying that the used GTI will cost £7500 in depreciation and extra running costs over 3 years, but never in a million years will a new GTD loose no more than that amount over the same amount of time. You can wipe the VAT from a cars value the moment you put a name on the logbook. On a £25k car, that's £4200. A good way into your £7500 on the first day.
What also needs to be considered is how much equity will be left in either car at the end of the term. If the Mk5 is bought without finance, he will still own a car that's worth what it's worth. With the new car, especially if it's on a PCP, he'll be left with a small amount of equity, or a car that he needs to find another considerable chunk of money to pay to finally own it.
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At average 10k PA mileage, the only real difference between the 2 costs wise is losses to be made on your options, interest to be paid on the GTD loan you wouldn't need for the GTI and insurance, which would be lower for the GTD (I pay £270 for the GTD vs £505 quote on a MK5 GTI). You also have to consider the potential for costly out of warranty work on the MK5 GTI. The MK7 is massively better than the MK5 in every aspect.
It looks like you have been round the houses like I have.
I do about 16,000 miles per year however about 10,000 are business miles that are paid for. that leaves me with about 500 miles per month to pay for myself.
The other thing I considered is the rising cost of fuel. As it gets higher the differential between diesel and petrol seems to be constant, this means that diesel becomes more cost effective.
I worked out that the overall cost of buying a GTD is £4k more than a 6 year old GTI over 3 years. (just over £100 per month.)
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monkeyhanger is right. I just checked drivethedeal and you can buy a 5dr GTD with no options for £22807, a saving of £3133 (12.1%) on the RRP. You will get around 60% of RRP in 3 years time with 30k miles which is £15564 for a loss of £7243.
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I bought a 3 year old Corsa for £4k (a bargain I thought) and sold it after 6 months for £2500 (it was crap)
I bought a nine year old Peugeot 205 (first car) for £1k and sold it nine years later for £2k. :shocked:
I sold it to the government, a fact that still brings me great pleasure. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Ricepop:
Your 16k miles PA explains why your GFV was a bit lower than what I was given on my VW finance offer (didn’t take up the finance, my dad lent me the money at 2.9% - the same rate he gets from his ISAs right now).
Let’s generously assume that the insurance will be the same, nothing will go wrong that requires fixing with your 5 year old GTI and you will get servicing done as cheap as the VW 3 year pack you can get on your new GTD.
For you then, based on previous assumptions, regardless of who is picking up the tab on fuel:-
£10k GTI, add 48k miles and we’ll optimistically estimate it to be worth £4500 at the end:-
£5500 depreciation
£8480 fuel (35mpg @£1.35/L)
£780 tax
£400 ½ cost of tyres and brake pads all round
Total 3 year cost = £15159.
£11625 depreciation (based on your actual purchase cost and GFV which is lower than likely p/x value)
true depreciation is likely to be £10660, taking your GFV and dividing it by (0.9333 = the ratio of my GFV of 56% to likely actual p/x value of 60%). That car should be worth approx. £14500 in p/x with circa £50k on it vs £15500 I expect for mine with 30k miles on it (my GFV was 14400).
£5596 fuel (55mpg @£1.40/L)
£40 tax (2 x £20, first year is free)
No incidentals cost
Total 3 year cost = £17261 based on your GFV or £16296 based on a realistic future p/x value.
The difference there of £2102 (or £1137) over 3 years is pretty much all down to your options holding almost no value, or lack of discount (as I’m not sure what options you have apart from the satnav you mention). There is interest to consider if you have £10k to put down too.
You have to be doing 42mpg in the GTD for 15p a mile to pay for your fuel (easy). You’d get £1200 PA tax relief in 40% of the fuel differential (15p vs 45p) for 10k miles PA.
You have to be doing 34mpg in the GTI for 18p a mile to be paying for your fuel (not as easy). You’d get £1080 PA tax relief in 40% of the fuel differential (18p vs 45p) for 10k miles PA.
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This is very impressive and MH is doing a fantastic job with all the specifics. However, as I'm sure we all know, its not just a pure mathematical decision is it? If it were we wouldn't be having this conversation as we'd all be in a Polo bluemotion.
Which car do you want and how bad? When you know that you can judge if the cost is worth it.
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This is very impressive and MH is doing a fantastic job with all the specifics. However, as I'm sure we all know, its not just a pure mathematical decision is it? If it were we wouldn't be having this conversation as we'd all be in a Polo bluemotion.
Which car do you want and how bad? When you know that you can judge if the cost is worth it.
If you take the money out of the equation I think nigh-on everyone would agree that a MK7 GTD will be a far better car to drive than a MK5 GTI (compare GTD with a MK7 GTI and we’re back talking about the financial figures again).
Far more composed with a nicer ride, far better handling, lots of equipment as standard (DAB, 18” wheels, Xenons, LEDs, hugely customisable interface, lots of safety kit etc), GTD being comparable in performance figures (in the GTDs favour when in motion) and far better in economy figures, arguably better looking, no unexpected costs to worry about (accidents excepted). The MK7 is a massive improvement over the MK5.
It is worth the wait Ricepop. Have back to back test drives in a MK5 GTI and a MK7 GTD and you will know the GTD is the one you want.
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Hey Monkeyhanger, are you available for financial guidance hire?! :grin:
Some great advice there.
Could be available soon for financial advice.
Not sure why I didn’t go into finance – I know the in’s and outs of everything I look into when going for a new mortgage deal or weighing up the pros and cons of finance. You can see the look of disdain on the mortgage advisors face when they try to sneak in a dodgy “insurance” policy or 2, or when Benfield try and add GAP and Autoglym onto the cost of a car by hiding it in the finance.
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Carry on with this MH and you will make me want to order a GTD in addition to the GTI haha.
Saw your motor again this morning; still looking excellent.
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Has anyone mentioned any major mechniacal failing of the GTI (bearing in mind the projected 16k/year plus the current mileage total) will be at the owners cost, vs a new GTD within warrenty for the first 3 years/60k.
Sorry if it has already been mentioned.
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Has anyone mentioned any major mechniacal failing of the GTI (bearing in mind the projected 16k/year plus the current mileage total) will be at the owners cost, vs a new GTD within warrenty for the first 3 years/60k.
Sorry if it has already been mentioned.
Has been mentioned, but no harm mentioning again. I doubt it is particularly likely though. I've never had major failure of any vehicle I've owned regardless of age. My dad's very ancient Saab eventually had its gearbox go bang and Saab wanted £3k to replace. A local Saab expert did it for £500. Thats the only incident I can think of. Of course if you bought a car just out of warranty and the engine blows up its a nightmare, but the chances of it happening are very very low.
@MH, Sorry, I wasn't suggesting a mk5 GTI is more desirable than a mk7 GTD. But Ricepop might feel having the car with no baggage and right now is preferable to waiting for a GTD that might annoy him all the time he owns it. Personally like you I would wait for the GTD given these options, but one size doesn't fit all etc etc...
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Result...spoke to a very nice lady @VW customer service on Friday, asked if she could confirm BW as only provisional whilst I was talking I mentioned that I really I need the vehicle mid Nov, gave my order no. Call ed me back today and advise my car will be in the uk mid Dec at the earliest maybe delays due to christmas but will be willing to order me a car to drive until mine arrives...she quotes" Sir when would you like this courtesy vehicle..my answer well mid Nov..she answer: its not 20 weeks at that point but im willing to arrange this for you..
Great service now it means I do not need to PX my car, I can get the courtesy car and put mine in the paper and get decent money...im saving already!!!!
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Good for you. :smiley:
Would be nice if they did this for everyone without question rather than saying "no" and then being rude about it though. :rolleyes:
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I know what you meant Bear, was just trying to persuade Ricepop how much the Golf has come on in just 5 years. It’s hard to believe how bad the MK5 is/was to drive (when shiny, taut and new) next to a MK7 in just 5 years of progress, and at the time I thought the MK5 was amazing (and next to a lot of its competition it was).
It’s difficult to imagine the bitterness will go away when that car is actually in your hands, but once you have it you will forget about the long and ill-informed wait. I was quite a vocal whinger about my wait, considering how quickly my dad got his etc, but looking back, my equity in the p/x opened right up with the wait, I got a newer 63 plate and even got an extra freebie for my troubles (Autoglym – useful for the comprehensive cleaning kit glass treatment and interior treatment). The sh!tty treatment of customers through lack of information or misinformation seems to go right to the top. The dealers only know what they are told by VW UK, yet have to stomach depreciation on fixed price p/x and lack of revenue while they wait on the very thing that gets you to provide them with cash – your car. Are VW UK really that bad, or are they, like the dealers, reliant on poor information from Wolfsburg? I doubt we’ll ever know. We do know that Wolfsburg cock up – they are the ones building cars a few weeks after scheduled build weeks etc.
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To be fair I cant understand how they can tell anybody no....I rang through to VW customer centre not dealers...told the girl that I need my vehicle on such a date which was possible when I ordered the vehicle...no delay by the dealer as tracker number given asap...Then the build weeks started to change, got call back advising a car will be arranged after 18 weeks...no brainer .
I only added park assist (as got board) 2 weeks ago aswell..........I can understand the dealers sayig no but the VW centre would sort it for you..they would either get dealer to supply car (if they caused a delay or misinformed me) or they would supplty themselves if BW kept on changing...rules might have changed not sure how many orders have been cencelled and complaints logged etc...another thing VW centre told me they have put my car on priorty and should be built 2 weeks earlier...what ever that means!!!!
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Carry on with this MH and you will make me want to order a GTD in addition to the GTI haha.
Saw your motor again this morning; still looking excellent.
Aye, the copious rain was beading nicely on the bodywork to wash away 2 weeks of dust from sitting in the works car park. Did you see me near the metro lines at Fawdon again? What do you drive so I can keep an eye out for you?
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Not sure I fully agree with the figures MH has quoted, I think you forgot to add my fuel claim.
This is what I worked out.
For a new GTD
Deposit: £7000
Repayments: £230x36=£8280
Total £15,285
Take off what the car is worth as a trade in (£2,000 at a guess)
The GTD will cost £13,285 not taking into account any fuel or tax or insurance.
For a Mk 5 GTI.
Cost £10,000
Extra tax over the GTD: £800
MOT: £150
Services: £150 (I will do it myself)
Extra fuel over the GTD @ 500 miles per month for 3 years (the rest is paid for by my company): £1600
This gives a total of £12700
Plus the car will be worth lets say £3000 to be mean, leaving an overall cost of £9700.
So that is £9700 for the GTI compared to £13285 for the GTD.
The GTI will be £3585 cheaper than a new GTD.
Plus diesel, tax, Insurance.
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oh well take it your mk5 comes with full warrenty
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I think the extra £3500 for the GTD is worth it.
At the moment I am sticking with it.
By the way warranties on second hand cars are a pain, they don't cover what you expect and take weeks to sort out. Given the choice I have always gone for no warranty, its easier to fix it myself. (haven't found anything I cant sort out myself in 24 years of driving yet)
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Stay focused...good decision
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As you say MH, all you chaps who have now got your cars are saying how its worth it so it does make sense to me to stick with the new car and not go to a mk5 (but its what's right for you Ricepop not me). If I hadn't found an alternative new car for the same money I'd have waited myself!
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The GTI will be £3585 cheaper than a new GTD.
The cost of ownership numbers add up to that, but as I said earlier, after three years you will own the GTI which will be worth whatever it's worth. You say £3000 on the conservative side. What will you have in the GTD? You reckon a £2000 deposit towards a new car. Maybe, but it's not guaranteed, but you will have to make a decision whether to find a considerable amount of money to keep the car, or start the whole process all over again.
Either way, we're not talking huge, life changing amounts of money, but in reality the difference is wider than assumed figures might suggest. You and only you can decide which car / deal is right for you. It's you that has to drive round in it.
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The cost of ownership numbers add up to that, but as I said earlier, after three years you will own the GTI which will be worth whatever it's worth. You say £3000 on the conservative side. What will you have in the GTD? You reckon a £2000 deposit towards a new car. Maybe, but it's not guaranteed, but you will have to make a decision whether to find a considerable amount of money to keep the car, or start the whole process all over again.......
Not always a bad thing Dubber.
Before I went down the PCP route, I would usually get a bank loan over 3 years.
Pay it off then trade the car in and start over again.
I've did this for around 25 years so have always paid car finance*
This has always been on 2nd hand cars usually 2 or 3 years old so just outside the manufacturers warranty plus in MOT land!
Then a few years back I stumbled upon the PCP method.
For me it works out just slightly more for a brand new car, compared to what I was paying for 2nd hand. So a "no brainer" :grin: :laugh:
Granted the cars never fully paid off but since I've paid car finance for 25 years I'm not any more out of pocket.
*One car I paid off and then didn't trade it in immediately. So I had a few extra £££ to play with each month. But its amazing how quickly that gets accounted for in other ways so when I did trade my car in to buy something else, it was a real struggle to find the monthly payment again.
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I think the extra £3500 for the GTD is worth it.
At the moment I am sticking with it.
By the way warranties on second hand cars are a pain, they don't cover what you expect and take weeks to sort out. Given the choice I have always gone for no warranty, its easier to fix it myself. (haven't found anything I cant sort out myself in 24 years of driving yet)
The difference in figs is primarily down to interest for the GTD that you won't be paying on the GTI, doing your own servicing and disregarding fuel savings on the fuel that your company pays for. If you have £10k available, have you considered using the whole £10k and getting a £15k bank loan at 5% or thereabouts (assuming your credit rating is good to very good) over 5 years, and then if you change cars at 3 years (and take out a new loan at that point) you will have more equity in the car and will have paid less interest as a result.
I used to do this prior to the last Scirocco going through VW finance, as I find it difficult to find a bank loan at a good rate with more than £15k borrowed.
On your proposed terms, you will be borrowing £18k for a £25k car (£7k down), and you will owe £13500 at the end of it. So for your £236 a month, you are only clearing £4500 of capital, which is £125 a month over 36 months - the other £111 a month is interest. This is how the high residual value pays dividends for VW finance - you will always be paying interest on the majority of the car's value, from month 1 to 36.
If you can get a £15k loan at 5%, you could end up taking it out over 60 months at approx £283 a month, and settling at 36 months. You will have overpaid by £47 a month vs VWs terms, but at that point, you will owe just over £6500 on it (including 2 months penalty interest for early settlement), vs £13500 GFV on the VW finance. £47 a month paid x 36 months = £1692. So in effect you are overpaying by £4692 (inc your other £3k: £10k down vs £7k down with VW) against £7k difference between owings at 36 months. There's a £2300 saving to be had with the personal loan route.
If you were to go for the GTI, the one thing I would insist on getting done would be the timing belt (or was it a chain back then? Thought the chain was brought in for MK6) and water pump unless it was done quite recently and fully documented as having been done. Apart from that and the cost of the turbo or gearbox, anything else that could go wrong is relatively cheap to repair/replace.
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Monkeyhanger, you have just about convinced me to cancel.
£230pm is easy to cope with. Your talk of £18,000 loans and debt is making me realise that maybe its something I don't want to get into.
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Monkeyhanger, you have just about convinced me to cancel.
£230pm is easy to cope with. Your talk of £18,000 loans and debt is making me realise that maybe its something I don't want to get into.
IIf you want to think of it as £230 a month rather than a single huge wedge of money then that's fine. If it helps you sleep at night, having £7k or £10k down means that car will always be worth more than you owe on it if you worry about finances.
It sounds like you’ve put a lot of thought into this (I was just bored at work when I got into some heavy number crunching!), maybe you don’t want it enough to be dropping that kind of money on a car (hence all the thought), and that’s fine. I’m at about my limit on what I’m prepared to spend on a car with a £20k loan so as not to have to start cutting back on hols, going out etc. For some it will be less, for some it will be more. At the end of the day, going new is about getting the latest tech and having worry free motoring (no nasty surprises). Occasionally I’m tempted to go old school and get a very tidy MK2 (the best of the “old” Golfs IMO).
I do think that the way VW finance is engineered with high residuals etc, if you think of the car as only ever being on loan for 3 years etc (how many people buy new cars to keep them beyond 3 or 5 years?) you can get behind the wheel of a new one for not much more than a fairly recent used one when you’re only covering the depreciation and some interest – albeit with nothing to show for it at the end of the agreement.
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Monkeyhanger, you have just about convinced me to cancel.
£230pm is easy to cope with. Your talk of £18,000 loans and debt is making me realise that maybe its something I don't want to get into.
That's just how I see things. No amount of number manipulation can get you away from the fact that you will still owe a considerable amount of money.
Occasionally I’m tempted to go old school and get a very tidy MK2 (the best of the “old” Golfs IMO).
However appealing that might sound and the nostalgic grin that it will give you driving one, as a daily, never. Even the very best ones feel like really old cars and have done for the last 10 years.
I perhaps should have made the effort to do more than 300 miles in mine this year, but it's more of a nice thing to own, rather than a car that I would be comfortable using.
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Occasionally I’m tempted to go old school and get a very tidy MK2 (the best of the “old” Golfs IMO).
However appealing that might sound and the nostalgic grin that it will give you driving one, as a daily, never. Even the very best ones feel like really old cars and have done for the last 10 years.
I have a 1967 Beetle in the garage and driving it is really fun however as a daily driver, no thanks its incredible how things have come on, I do think we are now getting diminishing returns in regards to comfort and usability, technology seems to be where the gains are.
The Mk 5 I drove felt easily as refined as the Mk7 GT I drove the day after.
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Had well over 250 Golf performance cars ,and apart from a few mk2-3-4-GTI's they have always got better ,a lot
better , the only two I would go back to as sunday cars is an 1800 early GTI and My late but with original wheels
R32 ,more for the Presence and sound of it :cool:
Otherwise it's Mk 7 all the way :wink:
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250 :shocked:
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250 :shocked:
Yup ,That will be 240 whilst in the trade and 10 after that I bought ,so did I brain wash myself or
after experiencing Ford, Vauxhall, BMW, Renault ,Audi , Audi Quattro and more why did I settle
on VW and the Golf ??? Simple seen it all ,like a medium sized performance Hatch ,and VW do
it best in an All round sort of way :cool: :cool: