GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: weejockvw on 23 September 2013, 19:35
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How about some feed back on higher mileage GTIs and no tension failure I have a Jan 2010 29500 mile
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Mine is now at 51k and 4 years old 59 plate Sept 09
But updated my tensioner at about 47k due to all the horror story's :sad:
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I really wish people would read and understand how the tensioner works.
Miles has nothing at all to do with it.
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I really wish people would read and understand how the tensioner works.
Miles has nothing at all to do with it.
:embarrassed: :rolleyes:
All I meant was I've managed 50k and 4 years without it going ?
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Would be great for people to say how much and where they got it replaced.
My attempts to gets quotes have been left with either a stupidly high price or confusion to what exact part i on about!
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I really wish people would read and understand how the tensioner works.
Miles has nothing at all to do with it.
:embarrassed: :rolleyes:
All I meant was I've managed 50k and 4 years without it going ?
but thats not what puts it under stress though.
If you said I regular stop for a few hours so the oil pressure drops and so it falls back on ratchet, then start the car again and repeat this many times a day every day for 4 years as im a rep or house husband or similar. Thats different.
But someone using the car to commute daily and doing 5k or soneone commuting doing 50k a year will put the ratchet under similar stresses.
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I rejected buying a Mini Cooper S because of worries about their tensioner failures, bought the Golf and now I find this!
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Some more expensive feedback and tails of woe on likely tensioner failure causing timing chain to jump
now with local dealer who matter of factly confirm new engine required.
A 59 plate Gti 2.0 Dsg with 60.4 k miles and owned from new and driven without even a minor hiccup since then . No prior warning to meltdown other than a couple of seconds of the key turn before the engine fired up and 4 miles into a 6 mile journey the engine warning light came on. At my local garage they pull up the Cam Tensioner warning code and it was then recovered to the nearest dealer . 2 days later their own tests showed possible damage to valves and pistons with the resulting 'new engine' telephone call. On VAG's behalf they confirmed a new engine supplied f.o.c with only a contribution cost from me of £2350 for labour!!! During the last 7 days VAG's customer services have looked at the case denied any real problems with the 2.0 Gti TSI engines and claim any goodwill is down to the dealer. Even after me giving them the ISME timescales of workshop times for an engine out and new in of 8.4 hrs they seem relaxed about a dealer quoting 22 hours !! A quite shocking experience for a VW golf owner of 20 years to see such a low point that has been reached.
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Just been through this my friend feel your pain!
That quote is a joke I was quoted £1350 for 15 hours work at £90 an hour, your being quoted nearly £150!!
I have a thread not to old full all info about this probably worth a read if you have not already.
I dealt with a Lucy then a Shayma from VWUK so get through to her she has definitely heard about it for I only got mine back on Sat and spoke to her yesterday to close my case.
All in all I paid £675 which I felt was fair under my circumstances!
Hope you get it fixed with an outcome your happy with, if you need any advice just get in touch. I have a word doc titled AMMO which I let rip on them only an email away!
Jimmy
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Hi Jimmy
Many thanks for the info on your case with Vag to the failure and costs you too have had to suck up. In my case the stealer has me over a barrel as they have the car and have given the diagnosis and feel the need to offer nothing further to either myself or via the senior VAG case manager. Ive just read your earlier post on it and entirely agree with all you said - what suprised me is the power of the franichise dealers more so over VAGUK no matter how strong the case with known documented weak parts, their own TSB 's on the subject and the shocking block prices of the 'labour only charge'. I have seen the I.C.M.E data sheets and they show a time as set from VAG of 8.4 hrs for the work of engine change on a DSJ and including the time on the air con recharge. What I found out late this afternoon is that with work of this nature VAG quietly allow the dealers to disregard these time frames which is reinforced by the huge variables in labour quotes.. but as i found out from a South Manchester Dealer once the car is logged in the system any form of competitive pricing completely disappears and dealer No 2 was only able to give a better price by £70 ! I am both gutted and disgusted that the smoke and mirrors they all collude too breaks the spirit to the point of having 5 new Gtis over 20 years i can only register my vote by next buying anything other than a VAG group car.
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WATCHDOG
or take the offer of the engine take the car away in bits and get an independant to fit it.
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Contact your local Trading Standards with all the info. With a bit of luck they should help you get a much better deal :wink:
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Both options there Snoopy have been under full consideration and might be taken. What has given me some heart
today and shows the power and benefit of Forums such as this was after placing a simple first time post late last night
was a very helpful and kind reply I got back from Jimmy.
His car and case are exactly the same as mine and I have been taking to a very helpful lady at VWUK CC who has
taken all the facts and case arguments back to the dealer over the last 10 days. They refuse to offer any goodwill or contribution to their stated labour charge of £2350 for a time frame they say of 22 hrs to take out and replace a VW Germany F.O.C new engine. The clearly think they have me over a barrel and that I should just roll over. The ICME software time sheets that independent garages are given shows and we reconfirmed this with the software suppliers yesterday is a time frame of 8.40 hrs.
Jimmy late last night very kindly gave me his case details and confirmed he was quoted from an franchised VW dealership a time frame of 15 Hrs. His car came back on Saturday and his case closed on Monday this week so still fresh and relevant.
I have given his case info to my case handler this morning and she is now checking with VW technical to the time frames for engine replacement but 15 hours to 22 hours is a vast margin on dealer quoted work. I hope the dealer where my car is gets fully caught out on and is fully exposed for it.
All I ever wanted at the start was what could be seen as a fair settlement and pay for me to pay reasonable contribution to rectifying a wrong. Jimmy ended his case feeling he was treated well where as up to last night I felt very very bitter with the dealer attitude. If with Jimmy's input the times and charges being suggested by the dealer are now found to be off the scale of that set by the group then I will feel some sense of justice has come out of it. That in no small part will have been with the help
of this forum. Will post the outcome as soon as its known.
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I hope you get sorted highpeak it's a disgrace what is happening to you this tensioner fault is obviously a common fault and there for should be rectified by a recall
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Thanks for the shout Charlie.
Even though its clearly been a well documented problem on many TSI engines across the group
they will only do a recall if its a safety issue - which this doesn't come under ... ( air bags were fully
deployed though when I was given the first dealer call 10 days ago! ).
What is now coming out though is for those especially on the earlier build engines and are now through
the warranty phase is the enormous labour charges being suggested by the dealers. To a recent point all
cases would be quietly dealt with at no owner cost to keep the issue o the design flaw on the chain tensioner suppressed.
A jumped chain may or may not destroy or wreck a large part of the inside of the top and bottom engine but the build
design of it means either way its probably not worth the strip down time to check - so they always suggest
a new engine is required - to which in virtually all cases so far VW Germany stand the cost for.
What is being found now is the wide variance of dealer times to take out and install a new engine and seemingly
some dealerships ( mine ) taking full advantage. This is where VAG could do themselves a big favor and standardize
a charge for the labour times to a set number of hours.
Again just had the dealer back on asking have I made my decision yet ... knowing VWUK C.S are still asking them questions.
It was kind of them to say it was just curtesy call as its been over a week in case I had forgotten about !!!
As a GTi owner of 20 years and with this one in its full factory spec'd ABT body kit - its hardly something I'd have forgotten about especially as reminded for 2 hours a day driving a friends 15 year old Ford Ka !!!!!
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snip
Do you have a full Main Dealer service History?
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To add to this I'm nearly on 60k on a 59 plate GTI.
I did ask the Dealer to listen to the sound on cold start and predictably nothing out of the ordinary was heard but I have it documented.
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Hi Poached
No dont have full main dealer service history on the current car - use a local garage who are pukka
mechanics - only use genuine VW parts on the services and this one has never missed a beat.
As you have it recorded on the cold start and presumably pre empted the possibility of the issue
to the dealer you have now put yourself in a much stronger position should the death rattle occur.
Some do and some dont - its almost the luck of the draw on this one.
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Hiya
If it helps i could scan and send a copy of my invoice for the engine change on mine.
It doesn't have the exact amount of hours, but it details the engine change, along with the Fault finding work, timing cover removal, etc. It has it as a Menu Subtotal price Showing my 70% contribution and it is detailed at £713.93 + Vat
It had no Full dealer history (but a full history at a local garage) and the car was out of warranty by 9 months. I bought it at 3 years old from a specialist. I put it to the dealer for a service (as i have used them before and have always been happy with their service) and signed up for a service plan covering the next two services (saved me £100), before they found the fault. This may have helped me, i don't know.
I'm not back to work till Monday if you want a copy :smiley: It might help :huh:
Sandy
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Hi Poached
No dont have full main dealer service history on the current car - use a local garage who are pukka
mechanics - only use genuine VW parts on the services and this one has never missed a beat.
As you have it recorded on the cold start and presumably pre empted the possibility of the issue
to the dealer you have now put yourself in a much stronger position should the death rattle occur.
Some do and some don't - its almost the luck of the draw on this one.
I think the offer you have received might be because the vehicle was serviced outside of the Dealer network?
It's not something I fully agree with but I know from previous experience that this can influence 'Goodwill contribution'.
I also think that Dealer is trying to Rinse you.
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Hi Poached
No dont have full main dealer service history on the current car - use a local garage who are pukka
mechanics - only use genuine VW parts on the services and this one has never missed a beat.
I think the offer you have received might be because the vehicle was serviced outside of the Dealer network?
It's not something I fully agree with but I know from previous experience that this can influence 'Goodwill contribution'.
I also think that Dealer is trying to Rinse you.
Yes Poached - many things may influence any goodwill as offered or not at this point to obtain a relatively
balanced settlement and a dealer history certainly helps.....BUT the smoke and mirrors as to what the exact times are to do an engine time are is now coming out. With all the overwhelming 'fit for purpose' info my case handler has been given she has been stone walled by the dealer who knows the game and refuses to budge on their stated £2350 labour charge on 22 hrs work. When i gave her this morning after Jimmy's case info of same car spec, age and fault with a £1350 cost on 15 hours work this shows the disparity and sharp practices at work on the back of the specification and use of a substandard part to an engine build spec.
The dealer in the first instance didnt even contact VWUK to authorise the supply of the FOC engine as they knew they would get it because of the history.
Hoping now Customer Services get to hang my dealer after getting VW tech to confirm the timeframes !
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Hiya
If it helps i could scan and send a copy of my invoice for the engine change on mine.
It doesn't have the exact amount of hours, but it details the engine change, along with the Fault finding work, timing cover removal, etc. It has it as a Menu Subtotal price Showing my 70% contribution and it is detailed at £713.93 + Vat
It had no Full dealer history (but a full history at a local garage) and the car was out of warranty by 9 months. I bought it at 3 years old from a specialist. I put it to the dealer for a service (as i have used them before and have always been happy with their service) and signed up for a service plan covering the next two services (saved me £100), before they found the fault. This may have helped me, i don't know.
I'm not back to work till Monday if you want a copy It might help
Sandy
Hi Sandy
Many thanks for the info and the help offered.
Yes that would be great as all supporting info combined from other affected owners breaks down the first
lines as given from any VW support that " you are the only one" !!
Let me know the best way to give you my contact details
Bests Hp23
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I agree with telling the dealer that you'll be along with a van and trailer shortly to take your car and new engine away. If this doesn't change their attitude, nothing will.
They're treating you like sh!t, so return the favour.
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Yip PM me ur email addy aswell my invoice on route also details engine strip due to non start, removed head chain snapped full engine replacement. £675!
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Should anyone be interested the VW technical team have confirmed the time detail for a 2.0 Tdi engine on a dsj gearbox to be 14 hours.
Any reputable dealer will quote a fixed price at their hourly rate on this 14 hours.
My senior VW C.S. case handler on day 10 of my saga gave this to the Service Manager who has been hanging out at 22 hrs rudely told her 'VW tech dont know what they are talking about " ...!! and furthermore if i didnt authoriise £2350 of work to be carried out immediately then i should have the car removed from their premises or the would put it out on the street.... !!! This stupidity even suprised a senior case manger who must have heard a lot.
I phoned a dealer away from the franchized network in and around The Northwest and was given in 15 mins a quote to do the work of £1152 by a authorized dealer with the the F.O.C engine to which I agreed
With recovery vehicle on its way mid afternoon to pick up from dealer i confirm my decision that it was being removed and their quote was not accepted. I mentioned that the work was being done at more than 50% less than they quoted and with all the utter clap trap and sharp practice i would be writing the strongest letter of complaint to the parent company of the franchice and to VW Germany.
2 mins later they asked the quote figure i'd accepted and they would match it. If it wasnt for the £160 of costs for recovery uplift and onward journey and now just wanting it fixed i accepted.
Case handler said never come across such a ridiculous about turn.
It will still be an exorcet of a letter to both the parent company and VW Germany who I understand go balistic at customer service at the lowest level like this....
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Can you tell us the name of this appalling dealership please? One to avoid.
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This is utterly disgraceful. I can understand your reluctance to incur further costs and to just get the job done, but as a matter of principle I would have removed the car and gone to the other dealer.
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Yup - Gilbert Lawton Macclesfield.
Jimmy kindly posted his case details Tuesday evening and gave his Case Handler's name - gave this to mine so she could check and verify supporting case evidence on Jimmys recent exact same works. After she got his case details and requested Lawton's to reconsider suggesting with the evidence it seemed the quote was excessive the service manager dismissed it out of hand and asked if we'd been drinking...!!
Difficulty comes when your car is logged at the dealer my experience shows the other dealers under the same franchise ownership across what can be big geographical areas , have it flagged and will not significantly better the price so not to open a can of worms.
The dealer who gave me a 55% lower quote was from a different region under a different franchise parent holder - hence the significant uplift and onward recovery in getting to them that I would have incurred.
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OMG :shocked:
That's the dealership I bought my 08 mk5 gti from (via orangewheels.co.uk). Sales service was great but that was the extent of my dealings with them once I picked the car up. All servicing was done down here at my local dealer.
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Yes agreed 100% on the point of principle but after 10 days of battling these idiots - all be it with great help from the Case Handler and other forum members its a huge time soak and massively draining because you are up against big companies even making an individual phone back takes huge time through the systems
in place.
I 'd just had enough and to start the process of getting the car and the work set up again on the VW system ment energy levels are running low .... The dealer who gave me the straight price will get the benifit of sale when i change again in Feb as I would now never support the North West bunch - where my last 3 have come from.
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I would have removed it no question. Sorry but can you imagine the care and attension they are now going to give it from now on? What happens if you have issues because of there assembly they going to be unhelpful.
It would also be a matter of primcipal.
I would also be writing to people like watchdog, whatcar, autoexpress, autocar about your experience of a known issue and vws and dealers responces and actions.
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Pleased you are sorted, with a reasonable solution, i just hope their mechanic skills don't match their managerial incompetance.
Have to agree with Booth, despite the all the hassle and extra costs.
On principal, i would have moved the car so they got no-more of my money. I don't think i would have been able to deal the service manager in a civil fashion :angry:.
Good luck, i'll keep my fingers crossed that they should be good at Wan%ing spanners as they seem to be a bunch of proper to$$ers
Sandy
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I totally agree Snoopy and Spiderman that they 100% don't deserve the business and authorization
to proceed... they are not making a loss even though they have capitulated and dropped the quotation
by £1198 in the most farcical circumstances. I'm savvy enough to realize that there are 2 sides to every
story but their actions and some of the comments made to the Case Handler when given clear evidence
and facts is frankly stupid beyond belief.
All they are doing now is charging the book price for the work of this nature to which I or those that follow
me ( and there will undoubtably be many more ) have to consider with the tensioner failure and its consequences.
It seem clear that for sometime to come with the design problem to the TSI's and the liabilty VW Germany recognizes
that engines will in normal circumstances be supplied on an F.O.C. basis.
The cost charge on the labour side after that comes down to any goodwill that an individual dealer is willing to put in
and if they don't then VWUK are not therefore able to make a contribution.
The dealer my car was recovered to were so far over the top and foolishly held out with all the evidence stacking
up against them that the letter to Inchcape Customer Services who own the North West Franchises may take some action
when presented with facts - they are very keen to protect their image and the facts here suggest that just to the issue
of price alone it was a blatant rip off ( it suggests the dealer may be way down on achieving his monthly targets )
When you add in comments by the Service Manger that "VW Technical don't know what their talking about" when
answering a time allocation of 14 hours for an engine change from the Senior Case Manger yesterday ... then you are
digging a big hole for yourself in what comes next.
I will be writing to Watchdog with the full case facts, Inchcape Customer Relations based in Kidlington and to VW Germany.
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I will be writing to Watchdog with the full case facts.
I looked into this, but my dealings with the dealer were great, so i had no complaint with them at all, and when you approach watchdog, they seem to be looking for bad service to name and shame, which is what you have had. The issue with the car seemed to be incidental as VW had provided the engine FOC.
Will be interesting to see how you get on, i take it you won't need a copy of my invoice now?
Sandy
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I looked into this, but my dealings with the dealer were great, so i had no complaint with them at all, and when you approach watchdog, they seem to be looking for bad service to name and shame, which is what you have had. The issue with the car seemed to be incidental as VW had provided the engine FOC.
Will be interesting to see how you get on, i take it you won't need a copy of my invoice now?
Sandy
Hi Sandy
Its interesting that the tensioner issue to the TSI and the costs the owners face if your one of the unlucky ones throws many different elements to light as the months go on and we get further into the grey area of warranty and goodwill.
VW Germany recognize the issue by almost without question in supplying the engine F.O.C which is not dealer dependant.
As the fault is not mileage dependent either ( as many can testify ) the power and costings of the individual dealerships
is very much now in play and greatly determine how as owners you come out the other side of it. Some may try and get more out of it to boost targets or like mine they see it as a opportunity to totally screw some over.
You and the likes of Jimmy came out feeling all things considered you were treated reasonably fairly by your dealer which is as it should be with a customer service orientated business. Its not a charity organization but neither should be allowed to try and extort sums of money such as this which is what I hope Inchcape will look at and also Watchdog to expose sharp practices like this.
If you would be willing to send a copy of your invoice that would be much appreciated and useful as I fully intend to document
with all supporting evidence if requested to VW Germany the exploitation by this particular dealer.
My email address is open on my profile if you would be still willing to do this.
Alistair.
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Will Do Alistair.
I'll scan it monday and send you a copy
Cheers
Sandy
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Yup - Gilbert Lawton Macclesfield.
:evil:I bought my last Golf GT from there ! Had to get rid of it after 6 breakdowns.......
Don't suppose you bought a Candy white GT from there before trading it in with just under 2000 miles ??
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:evil:I bought my last Golf GT from there ! Had to get rid of it after 6 breakdowns.......
Don't suppose you bought a Candy white GT from there before trading it in with just under 2000 miles ??
..... No the last one I bought there was new Gti V5 back in 2001.