GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Hawaii-Five-O on 28 July 2013, 08:49
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If VW restrict production of the GTD/GTI too much people will walk away. It's a fine line but have VW pushed it too far this time?
I know making something rarer and harder to get hold of generally increases demand. But loooong waiting lists put people off when there is a lot of choice at the GTD/GTI's price point.
Is their plan to throttle production for the first year to create a massive who har, then ramp up production for the remainder of its life?
I feel especially sorry for the early adopters that still haven't had their cars yet. But imagine walking into a showroom and being told that if you order a GTD/GTI today you won't see it until early 2014. Would make you think "How much do I actually want this car"?
Just a thought.
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I wouldn't beleive a thing they tell you whats causing the delay as it will keep changing.
This delay and more delay is just VW style. I'll calll it style rather than mismanagement as they did it in 2009 and 2005 I know as I got caught up in both!
Its standard practice for them. It also seems standard practice to mess you about.
I dont know if they think if they do this it makes the cars more sort after or attractive or what but I just find it poor customer service and im glad im not involved with it a 3rd time.
:undecided:
I posted that in the other thread by mistake.
Its not THIS time its been EVERY time.
I waited 7 months for my mk6 for example after originally been quoted 10weeks.
Many people DID walk away which of cause inflated used prices in the first years as people bought used rather than wait.I i could have sold mine for more than I paid for nearly the first year!
Good way of selling all those demo and showroom cars. :wink:
Maybe its how VW keep the used prices high at first :wink:
Its vw sham simples.
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Have VW restricted production of the GTD/GTI too much this time ?
Yes.
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This will be my first new car purchase, so I am not sure if its a VW thing or not. But I am not very impressed by the experience people seem to be having so far.
I would have thought that a order to delivery time of 20 weeks would be ample and worst case. If this is VW's minimum times, then I will definitely take that into account next time.
Or as I am considering now just buying a used alternative vehicle, the extra couple of months that I expect to wait has allowed me to look at slightly higher priced alternatives, and I am tempted.
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If I'm honest I'm on the brink of cancelling. I ordered our GTD mid April and was told it wold be in plenty of time for September. However delivery has been pushed back now to week 36. I called VW to investigate and they've failed to be helpful or return calls. On top of that the dealer group I've ordered from have GTDs but would rather they sat in a showroom than have people test drive them.
This is our first move from BMW/MINI/Mercedes and first impressions are not good sadly!!!
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If I'm honest I'm on the brink of cancelling. I ordered our GTD mid April and was told it wold be in plenty of time for September. However delivery has been pushed back now to week 36. I called VW to investigate and they've failed to be helpful or return calls. On top of that the dealer group I've ordered from have GTDs but would rather they sat in a showroom than have people test drive them.
This is our first move from BMW/MINI/Mercedes and first impressions are not good sadly!!!
I am surprised at that but you appear to be right. The one in Crow Rd only had 4 miles in it and was up for sale rather than be used as a demo. However when they received their GTI they used that as a demo. Seems strange.
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Yeah to be fair writing my reply irritated me so much that I've just emailed VWUK and complained about ACs GTDs being in showrooms, delivery time being pushed back despite dealers having them sat in showrooms and VWUK not calling me back.
To be fair ill prob get no reply in true VW style but at least they will know how I feel!
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report back when or if you get a reply Nairn.
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Understand why your pissed off, however as tractors go the GOLF GTD is the very best :tongue:
As Dell Boy would say 'You know it makes sense' :laugh:
Stay on the journey :wink:
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I still think that purchasing a new car should be an exciting event, which of course it is. It seems that once they have your signature, the experience is nothing but exciting and just turns to frustration. Regular updates from the dealer regarding progress/build weeks and so on costs them nothing and keeps you happy and potentially loyal for future custom.
About a year ago one of the staff at a local dealer said that they realise that customers do switch brands once they are given a ludicrously long lead time for a new vehicle.
Seems like some of you guys have been given the runaround by VW once you have placed your orders. I am sure all will be fine in the end, but why can't they make the order to delivery process painless. At the end of the day - these are £30k cars, not some cheap £5k 'budget' car.
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I don't have a problem with the 20 weeks as such (though for me its now looking like 24 at the earliest). Last car I bought was about 10 weeks. They estimated 8 (max 12) when I ordered and it got pushed back 2 from the estimated 8.
What I have an issue with is:
a) Estimates are hugely out. Not just 1 or 2 weeks... its like an extra 3-4months!
b) VW have some immensely dumb allocation system where each dealer seems to have a "hidden" allocation so when you order you're basically flipping a coin on if you'll be taking delivery soon or never. And how do you find out which it is? When the car arrives, that's how. :angry:
c) They still can't offer any explanation.
All of the above are very very easy to fix. .... If they cared that is.
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Thanks guys!!!
Having sold cars I know what it's like to sell a factory order car... You don't get a penny until the customer picks it up and it was just as irritating for the salesman sometimes... At the end of the 6 month period the commission often is pretty rotten too!! With this in mind I don't expect the salesman to be m best pal and ring me monthly... So I don't blame the salesman in any of this!
However I expect more from the manufacturer and the overall dealer group.
Will let you know what VW say....
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I'm calling them first thing Monday to get a confirmation or denial on if it is the rear view camera holding things up. If they say that it is I'm gonna kick up a fuss because they explicitly said this would only hold up new orders and I ordered in April.
I really feel like they should be offering to knock a grand off as compensation for this crap, but even if they did it would barely cover my losses in my p/x. :sick: What I will make clear to them is that if they can't do anything this is the first and last time I will be buying VW.
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I'm sure they won't give a damn. There are plenty more customers who will come along and order a new car, just because it is a VW. Every VW forum I look at seems to give the dealers and VWUK a thumbs down. VW will only sit up and take note when all their customers desert them not just the GTI buyers. I think they might have underestimated demand for the GTI.
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That's up to them. I'm not self censoring though!
If they did underestimate demand why not just say so and give sensible estimates along with first come first served? I don't have a problem with the wait, I have a problem with how they've handled it.
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My GTi is my 2nd but my Mk 5 is a 57 plate so not caught up in the initial orders.
However my last car was an Audi TT S Line which also took 5 months from order and was delayed so much that the dealer lent me an A5 for a month (via a lease broker). Not sure I would have got that service direct or not.
I've accepted a free performance pack and am still (hopefully!) getting my GTi when I want it as I ordered early deliberately but I do think overall their customer service and communication has been poor.
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That's up to them. I'm not self censoring though!
If they did underestimate demand why not just say so and give sensible estimates along with first come first served? I don't have a problem with the wait, I have a problem with how they've handled it.
Oh, I absolutely agree with you. VWUK, their dealers and their customer service set the bar pretty low. The cars are good on the whole with a few notable exceptions (7 speed DSG, 1.4 twincharger engine) and the New Beetle which looke promising on paper but totally failed to deliver.
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I've accepted a free performance pack and am still (hopefully!) getting my GTi when I want it as I ordered early deliberately but I do think overall their customer service and communication has been poor.
Hold on, how did you get the PP for free? They offered you compensation for the delay? How much delay?
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Id like to know how you went about getting freebies too, as im like Bill, ordered in April and have heard nothing since.
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I got a phone call from the dealer to let me on Friday that its a 21 week wait on new orders now as was thinking of changing mine.
It put me off wanting a new one so I can only imagine how frustrating it is to be waiting. A lot of us are GTI/GTD repeat customers so you would think they want to keep our custom as we probably spend about 30k on each car with them.
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The delays are completely self-made by VW via their allocation system to engineer a demand which exceeds supply. If you were to order a Golf GT or SE right now you'd have it within 12 weeks. I find it difficult to believe that any of the limited GTI/GTD specific parts are in short supply (Wheels/Seats/Engines/internal and external trim). The system of long waits for a GTI/GTD is nothing VW could'nt fix immediately if it wanted to.
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I ordered mine on the 3rd of June and it's still at the order processing stage, was told when I ordered it while the couldn't guarantee September they were more than confident it would be at the dealership by at the latest the last week of the month. When I chased them up last week asking what the script was got given the order number and a url which is when I found out they haven't even got it booked in to production yet. Reading what a lot of others have said it's looking very likely I'll be lucky to see mine even a month after I'm supposed to.
Weird thing is when I ordered my mk6 I was told by the dealer I had a 5 month wait, the car turned up two months early and they had no idea what was going on when the transporter was trying to offload it to them. So I'm less than confident in any assessment that the dealer gives me now. Little pissed off with myself because I'd gotten a good deal on a 120d and I'm sure that wouldn't take 4-5 months but I wanted to stick with the golf because I like them, definitely give it more thought next time I change car.
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I ordered a GTD early July and my dealer called me last week to say that early October (or even earlier) is the likelyhood. Sounds like he's telling me porkies, I haven't tracked it yet.
Do you think there is any correlation between ordering via a broker and having a longer wait than ordering direct from dealer? Again, the salesmen will spin you the yarn about broker orders going to the back of the queue, but it seems to me that all orders are delayed.
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I got prices from brokers and dealers, as there was not a lot in it and the dealer matched the brokers price in the end plus some other incentives I went with the dealer. Both were quoting middle to end of September to me when I was getting quotes, the dealer is still suggesting that should be ok but having heard the rear view camera is causing problems and that's on my order I'm pessimistic I'll see the car in September, be lucky if I see it in October going on what others are experiencing.
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I ordered a GTD early July and my dealer called me last week to say that early October (or even earlier) is the likelyhood. Sounds like he's telling me porkies, I haven't tracked it yet.
Do you think there is any correlation between ordering via a broker and having a longer wait than ordering direct from dealer? Again, the salesmen will spin you the yarn about broker orders going to the back of the queue, but it seems to me that all orders are delayed.
Depends on the dealer. If he’s got lots of unused allocation then you may well get it quite early. If he hasn’t then you won’t. To get their commission sooner rather than later I suspect DTD and other brokers hunt around for a dealer that has plenty of allocation left so that you get your car (and he gets his commission) sooner rather than later.
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To get their commission sooner rather than later I suspect DTD and other brokers hunt around for a dealer that has plenty of allocation left so that you get your car (and he gets his commission) sooner rather than later.
I doubt that DTD are bothered about waiting for their commission, as they do a huge amount of business. When I ordered from them (don't forget free delivery is included) they rang me and said, "You'll be hearing from the dealer closest to you on our books in the next couple of days." Exactly what happened, dealer down the road from me. I also know that they have links to a dealer in Kent and elsewhere, judging what has been posted on here.
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To get their commission sooner rather than later I suspect DTD and other brokers hunt around for a dealer that has plenty of allocation left so that you get your car (and he gets his commission) sooner rather than later.
I doubt that DTD are bothered about waiting for their commission, as they do a huge amount of business. When I ordered from them (don't forget free delivery is included) they rang me and said, "You'll be hearing from the dealer closest to you on our books in the next couple of days." Exactly what happened, dealer down the road from me. I also know that they have links to a dealer in Kent and elsewhere, judging what has been posted on here.
The ability of brokers to get shorter build date waits than the rest of us in general does seem to suggest that they target dealerships with unused allocation, and they just so happen to use the nearest dealership to you that fits that criteria. Getting your VW via broker from your closest dealership may just be a coincidence. Perhaps your local dealership hasn’t sold anywhere near their allocation for GTI/GTD and the dealership is able to tap into that to get a relatively fast delivery.
On the other hand, perhaps the fleet side of any dealership (through which most broker deals are fulfilled) have few or no allocation considerations to make and so you can get one via these channels at the standard 12 week wait you would have for pretty much any VW you can currently order which has no allocation restrictions.
There are a lot of dealerships down South that seem to be more open to a sizeable discount than the Northern or Scottish dealerships going by what has been said on these forums (although good p/x prices seem to mitigate some of the lack of discount). Dealerships don’t give discounts away if they don’t have to. The new car market seems to be a lot healthier in the North/Scotland than the South right now, everyone down there seems open to giving a good discount to secure a sale, especially by taking on orders from a broker, so getting the broker deal fulfilled by your local dealer if you live down South isn’t to be unexpected.
I rang DTD up for a quote a while back and no dealership in the North East would supply. I’d have been getting mine from a Lancashire branch of the Lookers group if I’d have gone ahead.
All businesses are in it to make money, there is no bigger problem for a company that is making money than cash-flow so it stands to reason they’d want their money sooner rather than later, that’s just good business.
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21 weeks wait for a VW? Insane is all I can say. I love my GTis but I wouldn't wait that long for one. It's a VW FFS not a Ferrari!
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Dealerships don’t give discounts away if they don’t have to.
Arnold Clark showroom in Lanarkshire - discounted heavily in the showroom (http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee109/croz_13/Golf%20GTI%20Mk7/null-25.jpg)
Perhaps your local dealership hasn’t sold anywhere near their allocation for GTI/GTD and the dealership is able to tap into that to get a relatively fast delivery.
One of London's big dealers, ordered late May? I'm sure you're right.
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21 weeks wait for a VW? Insane is all I can say. I love my GTis but I wouldn't wait that long for one. It's a VW FFS not a Ferrari!
21 weeks is optimistic IMHO. Someone on here posted a screen cap of the updates VWUK sent to their dealer. Said minimum lead time for a GTI is 21 weeks. Minimum!
My lower estimate for my own delivery is currently 24 weeks. Upper estimate.... who knows? 2015? (and I pre-ordered in April FYI)
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The dealer allocation system does seen inherently unfair.
I ordered my GTI mid-June, and my dealer called on Thursday to say I'm still on track for early/mid September delivery (mid-August build). Either he's telling porkies or that's a c13 week lead time which I think is pretty decent by all accounts.
I didn't get a good discount though (2.5%), so it's swings and roundabouts.
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If VW restrict production of the GTD/GTI too much people will walk away. It's a fine line but have VW pushed it too far this time?
I think it will chase the punter away that thinks he can walk into the showroom order a new GTI / GTD and expect to get it in a few months. However I think those numbers will be filled by people who are aware it will be a 9 month wait (for example).
Its the not knowing what length of time it is going to take that is the problem.
If VW came out and said it will be a guaranteed 9 months you will get people whose current car isn't due to be changed until then all come forward. It will however create a problem for trade in values that dealers will have to work around.
With VW building the image of the car you have always promised yourself / all the car you will ever want, a 9 month wait would be nothing.
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Just out of interest I rang my local BMW dealer this morning and they quoted me “early September” delivery for a factory order M135.
Not only that, there is currently a £2700 dealer deposit contribution, and as standard you get full leather, full nav system, xenons, cruise etc.
Yes it will cost more to run without question, but there will come a point where it looks like a better deal if I am going to have to wait 5-6 months for a golf..and I will be able to overlook the ugly looks in favour of better performance and a better deal / short wait. I have emailed my dealer to try and get an honest view of lead times before i get strung along for weeks..
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and I will be able to overlook the ugly looks in favour of better performance and a better deal / short wait.
Get the BMW and drive it fast to avoid being recognised. :whistle:
With no allocation constraints almost any car manufacturer can deliver on an order within 12 weeks - including VW.
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European demand in general is weakening again and vehicle manufacturers make more money by strictly matching supply and demand. For this to be successfu,l production planning volumes must be predicted accurately and conservately before the project kicks off. VW are experts is predicting demand, controlling future value of there products. Complex statistical models are developed so they can maximise profit. Only by manufacturing for accutal demand can they maximise profit. They know exactly what they're going otherwise they would plan differently. Long waiting times and high sale prices protect future values of out going models therefore protecting and maximising dealer revenues. The larger the car company the more important it is to 'control' demand. With so many options available to customers, complexity results in extended lead-times. I suppose anyone who went through this long wait for their mk6 will not be surprised with the current situation at all. I can't wait pick mine up..........
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production planning volumes must be predicted accurately and conservately before the project kicks off
Yes, you make a good point. You must be efficient... but not too efficient. Longbridge.
I think most of us are primarily upset by the lack of transparency though.
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My dealer just emailed me back and it does seem that they also dont have the information. All i was asking for was when might they come back to me to confirm the build week.
Given its nearly a month since I ordered, this ought to be transparent. I work in finance in manufacturing so know this very well, lead times are planned well ahead in order to order components, minimise stock etc so when an order is placed the whole process kicks off.. I would have said 1 month after order placement any big facility should know for the next several months what the real demand is and know very accurately when each car will be built.
Yes its hard to demand plan before a car is launched, but once orders are coming in, it should be pretty simple to let each dealer know about their lead times..
In our company we do a rolling 13 month forecast to help predict demand.. and then we are doing twice monthly forecast.. Doubt VW is any different and I am sure they are much more advanced than us !
I think just more transparency back to dealers, and in turn customers, would be good..
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one other comment I agree with though..
If the limited supply and high demand keeps used values high I am also fine with that, as most of us will be I am sure.
Its true Europe is way over capacity in car manufacturing but VW is the best of the best when it comes to the science of getting this kind of thing right.
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European demand in general is weakening again and vehicle manufacturers make more money by strictly matching supply and demand. For this to be successfu,l production planning volumes must be predicted accurately and conservately before the project kicks off. VW are experts is predicting demand, controlling future value of there products. Complex statistical models are developed so they can maximise profit. Only by manufacturing for accutal demand can they maximise profit. They know exactly what they're going otherwise they would plan differently. Long waiting times and high sale prices protect future values of out going models therefore protecting and maximising dealer revenues. The larger the car company the more important it is to 'control' demand. With so many options available to customers, complexity results in extended lead-times. I suppose anyone who went through this long wait for their mk6 will not be surprised with the current situation at all. I can't wait pick mine up..........
Exactly.
VW are the masters of competitive running costs through clever financing and engineered high residual prices in the used market.
They charge a lot of money for their car, given the age-old status of the VW badge as a “people’s car”, but make them affordable to finance due to their relatively low depreciation. Would you pay up to a £5k premium for a GTI/GTD over its Ford/Alfa/Seat/Vauxhall equivalents if the residuals were 35-40% after 3 years and you ended up paying £150 a month more as a result.
They can charge top whack for a product to maximise profit and have customers satisfied that the residuals will keep monthly prices low – everyone wins to the point until the car’s price-point in the used market is unmaintainable e.g. a Focus ST can be bought for 30-50% less than a GTI of the same age, something has to give.
VW see themselves as established semi-premium now, if not premium. The only way VW can maintain such cracking residuals on a GTI (51% GFV) or GTD (56% GFV) and keep the cost to run one at a pricepoint that many will accept is to limit production. The masses of SE and GT Golfs mean that high GFV is hard to maintain – all the lower Golfs come in at between 44 and 47%, to the point where a GTD can cost a few quid a month less on finance than a GT TDI150 if you can be bothered to wait for one.
In the last 4 years we’ve seen a 30% rise(£20k to £26k) in the cost of a GTI between MK5 and MK7 (most of it being loaded onto the MK6) despite massive savings in the assembly costings (simplified multilink rear suspension being the most memorable).
There aren’t many marques that would stomach that in a period of recession and stagnation, VW almost caught up with BMW and Audi prices in that period. If Audi weren’t so tight with their standard equipment and staid in their generic styling (not saying the Golf is a true beauty, but it’s far easier to tell a GTI/GTD from a lower model than can be said for the A3 (S3 excepted) ) I’d probably be looking to get an A3 over a Golf.
Anyway, the main point is, if the GTI or GTD was as common as any other Golf with all feelings of exclusivity gone and paying out more per month via lower residuals – would we still buy one over a BMW123D/125i or Audi A3? That’s some consolation as to why we have to wait so long for one!
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Great post! Explains a lot of what VW are doing whether you agree with it or not!
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Anyway, the main point is, if the GTI or GTD was as common as any other Golf with all feelings of exclusivity gone and paying out more per month via lower residuals – would we still buy one over a BMW123D/125i or Audi A3? That’s some consolation as to why we have to wait so long for one!
Spot on
Plus, I'll be having mine for 4 years (company car) so the improved engine far outweighs having to wait that little bit longer than I would have if I'd gone for the A3, which would cost more and have less power.
Saying that - hurry up FFS :wink:
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One of the reasons i went for a new car this time is because for me the only time to buy a new car is when a new model is launched, its significantly better than the one before, supply is limited, demand is high and it is pretty wall acclaimed as a big step forward.
The benefit will be in 24 months time the forecourts won't be awash with used Mk7 GTis hopefully.. and to be fair this is the issue with the M135, there are already a lot on BMW approved used website, pushing prices down to £25k already.
Oh the road testers in all the mags conveniently forget that basic economics come into play when making a decision to buy a car, not just 0-60 times.. :rolleyes:
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I've cancelled my order this last week as the wait till Christmas at the earliest would have been excruciating.
Got a brand new BMW M135i with 16% off list price and its unbelievable to be fair. I know its not a direct competitor to the GTI but when you can get one for £28k after discount, it makes it a very realistic purchase.
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I've cancelled my order this last week as the wait till Christmas at the earliest would have been excruciating.
Got a brand new BMW M135i with 16% off list price and its unbelievable to be fair. I know its not a direct competitor to the GTI but when you can get one for £28k after discount, it makes it a very realistic purchase.
Hey Rob,
A little bit off topic but would you mind posting the full spec you got with the M135? I'd be real interested to see how it compares to the GTI standard spec... what options don't you get or would you have to pay more for.
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I've cancelled my order this last week as the wait till Christmas at the earliest would have been excruciating.
Got a brand new BMW M135i with 16% off list price and its unbelievable to be fair. I know its not a direct competitor to the GTI but when you can get one for £28k after discount, it makes it a very realistic purchase.
Is that 16% and the £2700 deposit contribution (which I assume only comes with BMW finance)?
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I've cancelled my order this last week as the wait till Christmas at the earliest would have been excruciating.
Got a brand new BMW M135i with 16% off list price and its unbelievable to be fair. I know its not a direct competitor to the GTI but when you can get one for £28k after discount, it makes it a very realistic purchase.
Hey Rob,
A little bit off topic but would you mind posting the full spec you got with the M135? I'd be real interested to see how it compares to the GTI standard spec... what options don't you get or would you have to pay more for.
Tempted?
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I've cancelled my order this last week as the wait till Christmas at the earliest would have been excruciating.
Got a brand new BMW M135i with 16% off list price and its unbelievable to be fair. I know its not a direct competitor to the GTI but when you can get one for £28k after discount, it makes it a very realistic purchase.
That sounds like a cracking deal. Running costs aside that's near abouts the price of my GTI. Plus you'll get yours in 8-10 weeks. :shocked:
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Tempted?
Yes, and no!
£28k is less than I'm paying for the GTI and it sounds like a good chance I could order now and get the BMW before the GTI, even though I'm over 3 months into the GTI order as it is. Comes with 50% more power too... that is a lot of temptation since I'm a first time GTI buyer so have no loyalty in that sense.
But its not a GTI! And its f*ing ugly. Insurance is probably a shed load more too. I'm also tempted to get my Ford dealer to give me their best offer on a ST... but its the GTI I want.
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I've cancelled my order this last week as the wait till Christmas at the earliest would have been excruciating.
Got a brand new BMW M135i with 16% off list price and its unbelievable to be fair. I know its not a direct competitor to the GTI but when you can get one for £28k after discount, it makes it a very realistic purchase.
Hey Rob,
A little bit off topic but would you mind posting the full spec you got with the M135? I'd be real interested to see how it compares to the GTI standard spec... what options don't you get or would you have to pay more for.
Well you get leather and full nav system as standard on the M135 so thats £2500-£3000 difference for a start..
Hope my dealer comes back with good news on lead time soon otherwise I might have to consider my options !!
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Nope 16% total plus an extra £500 p/x on my missus' car than what it was worth (they really wanted the deal in this months numbers!). The finance is at 5.9% which is a bit cheaper than VW too. List price inc options was £33,500 and I got for £28,000.
Spec as follows;
3 door
Estoril blue (£550)
Leather interior
Xenons
DAB radio
Dimming mirrors/auto rain sensors
18" alloys
5 years service pack (£800)
Driver comfort package (£385)
Heated seats (£295)
Sun protection package (£315)
Harman Kardon Hi-fi (£600)
Standard spec without the options is pretty decent for a BMW though
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Re running costs, my insurance is £75 more than the GTI would have been and less than my mk6 GTD somehow?!
Driving at the speed limit today 30 miles to work, I got 38mpg in eco mode on the M135i...granted that wont happen often but its nice to know it wont cost a fortune if I don't want to boot it constantly.
Sytner had some brand new in dealer stock so got it in 4 day turnaround!! The only option I wanted was Estoril blue which looks amazing to be fair.
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Nope 16% total plus an extra £500 p/x on my missus' car than what it was worth (they really wanted the deal in this months numbers!). The finance is at 5.9% which is a bit cheaper than VW too. List price inc options was £33,500 and I got for £28,000.
Spec as follows;
3 door
Estoril blue (£550)
Leather interior
Xenons
DAB radio
Dimming mirrors/auto rain sensors
18" alloys
5 years service pack (£800)
Driver comfort package (£385)
Heated seats (£295)
Sun protection package (£315)
Harman Kardon Hi-fi (£600)
Standard spec without the options is pretty decent for a BMW though
You've ordered the best colour as well, its immense!
I've just done a quick configuration, and the spec I went for was very similar to yours - ignoring running costs it'd cost me another 50 quid a month on a pcp - if I had known what a wait the GTI would have been I would have been seriously tempted to go for the 135i - especially as I would have had it by now :angry:
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GTI. Available at some undetermined time in the future. We hope.
M135i. You can have it tomorrow, for less money too.
FFS. :angry:
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I've cancelled my order this last week as the wait till Christmas at the earliest would have been excruciating.
Got a brand new BMW M135i with 16% off list price and its unbelievable to be fair. I know its not a direct competitor to the GTI but when you can get one for £28k after discount, it makes it a very realistic purchase.
Hey Rob,
A little bit off topic but would you mind posting the full spec you got with the M135? I'd be real interested to see how it compares to the GTI standard spec... what options don't you get or would you have to pay more for.
Well you get leather and full nav system as standard on the M135 so thats £2500-£3000 difference for a start..
Hope my dealer comes back with good news on lead time soon otherwise I might have to consider my options !!
If you wanted leather and nav on the GTI then they are 2 of the priciest options you could spec, so that is a plus. Not a fan of the styling though, it is an improvement on the previous shape.
The thing I like least about the new BMW 1 series (as daft as it sounds) was the cringeworthy advert that launched the new 1 series. There were 2 brothers that had one each and they both came across as complete bell-ends, poundland yuppies. I wondered what BMW were doing putting that ad out. It was almost as if BMW were saying “buy one of these cars and become a complete cock like these 2 herberts”. The advert was dubbed from German so maybe something was lost in translation.
I’ve no doubt that it is a great car to drive and with those discounts and lead times it is a good buy, but the possibility of me being tarred with that image for driving one put me right off. The advert hasn’t been aired for well over a year now so hopefully people have had time to forget.
Sorry for that opinion, nothing to do with you or the car, merely the advert which portrays a poor image of the car/would-be drivers.
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GTI. Available at some undetermined time in the future. We hope.
M135i. You can have it tomorrow, for less money too.
FFS. :angry:
Annoying isn't it. I do less than 10k miles a year as well so running costs are less of an issue for me. Literally would have had a 135i end of June even if it had been a 12 week wait factory order. And its quicker.
I suppose at least I have a confirmed build week now. Still, the way some people have been commenting on cars being at a standstill in ports, my estimated delivery date of mid Sep is still up in the air - really winds me up as it doesn't help with financial planning/organising my diary etc etc :angry:
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BMW are quoting 6-8 weeks on new factory orders for M135i's at the moment as well which is good if there isn't one in stock that you like.
I love the GTI but am not a patient person and the deals BMW are offering are too good to turn down (got my deposit back from VW as well which I wasn't expecting).
I agree most BMW drivers are k***s btw...
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It was almost as if BMW were saying “buy one of these cars and become a complete cock like these 2 herberts”.
Wasn't 1 guy Sport C*ck and the other Urban C*ck? :grin:
Honestly though they are great driving cars just the looks don't do anything for me.
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Annoying isn't it. I do less than 10k miles a year as well so running costs are less of an issue for me. Literally would have had a 135i end of June even if it had been a 12 week wait factory order. And its quicker.
I suppose at least I have a confirmed build week now. Still, the way some people have been commenting on cars being at a standstill in ports, my estimated delivery date of mid Sep is still up in the air - really winds me up as it doesn't help with financial planning/organising my diary etc etc :angry:
There is a brand new BMW dealer 200m from my front door. Right now it is hard not to call them and say "I've ordered a GTI but VW are pissing me around, give me a M135i test drive and your best offer to convince me to cancel the GTI and go with you." then see what they can do.
I wanted the GTI though and its been 3 months, perhaps I should just sit and wait 3 more. Its so annoying to think I could be driving a car with 50% more power and probably costing a few grand less this week... or wait for how long? 3 more months? 4?
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BMW are quoting 6-8 weeks on new factory orders for M135i's at the moment as well which is good if there isn't one in stock that you like.
I love the GTI but am not a patient person and the deals BMW are offering are too good to turn down (got my deposit back from VW as well which I wasn't expecting).
I agree most BMW drivers are k***s btw...
That's a more than acceptable wait, and the deals they're doing at the moment are excellent.
Yeah, most BMW drivers are (unts, but to be fair when you're in one you couldn't care less! (and the indicators stop working :laugh:)
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Annoying isn't it. I do less than 10k miles a year as well so running costs are less of an issue for me. Literally would have had a 135i end of June even if it had been a 12 week wait factory order. And its quicker.
I suppose at least I have a confirmed build week now. Still, the way some people have been commenting on cars being at a standstill in ports, my estimated delivery date of mid Sep is still up in the air - really winds me up as it doesn't help with financial planning/organising my diary etc etc :angry:
There is a brand new BMW dealer 200m from my front door. Right now it is hard not to call them and say "I've ordered a GTI but VW are pissing me around, give me a M135i test drive and your best offer to convince me to cancel the GTI and go with you." then see what they can do.
I wanted the GTI though and its been 3 months, perhaps I should just sit and wait 3 more. Its so annoying to think I could be driving a car with 50% more power and probably costing a few grand less this week... or wait for how long? 3 more months? 4?
And you still haven't been given a BW yet right? I know what I'd do - if I was in your position I'd be telling VW to shove it - the only reason I'm not is because I've potentially only got another 6 weeks to wait....but if it was 3 months more then I'd be scooting over to Mr Beemer and going for a test drive....
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M135i looks like a very good car; it was on my short list together with the S3 amongst others!
I actually like the look of the M135i, but over 4 years / 60k it was around £100 more expensive a month than the GTI (which was already around £75 more than the GTD which I should have been looking at logically).
I also didn't like the idea of having to get winter tyres, the (on paper) fuel economy vs the GTI (accepting it's actual very good relative to the bhp), I thought the Interior was a bit bland, off-set pedal if buying the manual etc, poor levels of standard kit (vs the GTI)...
Don't get me wrong - if I was only doing 5,000 miles a year I may well have gone for the M135i as it does look (and sound) great in my opinion. Sadly I can't get the bus to work if it's snowing so it dropped off my short list!
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I'd encourage anyone to give it a test drive if they're not happy with waiting for the GTI. It might cost a bit more per month, but should hold its value better as its the top of the range.
The GTI is awesome though and if you have more patience than me, i'm sure you wont be disappointed!
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I'd encourage anyone to give it a test drive if they're not happy with waiting for the GTI. It might cost a bit more per month, but should hold its value better as its the top of the range.
The GTI is awesome though and if you have more patience than me, i'm sure you wont be disappointed!
Are you sure it holds its value better? Pretty sure it doesn't.
You are tempting me though! Just a little jealous you got one in 4 days haha :grin:
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Nope 16% total plus an extra £500 p/x on my missus' car than what it was worth (they really wanted the deal in this months numbers!). The finance is at 5.9% which is a bit cheaper than VW too. List price inc options was £33,500 and I got for £28,000.
Spec as follows;
3 door
Estoril blue (£550)
Leather interior
Xenons
DAB radio
Dimming mirrors/auto rain sensors
18" alloys
5 years service pack (£800)
Driver comfort package (£385)
Heated seats (£295)
Sun protection package (£315)
Harman Kardon Hi-fi (£600)
Standard spec without the options is pretty decent for a BMW though
Thats a good spec for the money, considering the performance. What is the sun protection package - tinted windows or an expensive pair of sunglasses perhaps?
I can see this becoming the "screw you VW/M135 (+GTD) owners forum". :whistle:
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It might cost a bit more per month, but should hold its value better as its the top of the range.
What GFV did they quote you (assuming you are on BMW finance)?
Most top of the line cars don't hold their value as well as the next one down - you can see this in GTI vs R. Usually that top of the line model is biting the heels of the next class of car up. A used Scirocco R isn't worth a hell of a lot more than a 2.0TSI GT. I would imagine that is the fault of the remappers when access to an extra 50-60PS is £300-400 added to the lesser car.
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I asked BMW the question about GFV as I thought mine was a little low (£12k after 4 years), and they said that they like the owner to build up some equity so as to have enough to put towards a deposit on a new car after the term expired so its loaded.
If you're not sure on residuals, just look at the 135i coupe, 2008 models are still selling for £15k+ for a good example.
I think after 4 years mine will still be worth at least £17k (barring catastrophe).
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Nope 16% total plus an extra £500 p/x on my missus' car than what it was worth (they really wanted the deal in this months numbers!). The finance is at 5.9% which is a bit cheaper than VW too. List price inc options was £33,500 and I got for £28,000.
Spec as follows;
3 door
Estoril blue (£550)
Leather interior
Xenons
DAB radio
Dimming mirrors/auto rain sensors
18" alloys
5 years service pack (£800)
Driver comfort package (£385)
Heated seats (£295)
Sun protection package (£315)
Harman Kardon Hi-fi (£600)
Standard spec without the options is pretty decent for a BMW though
The same colour and a very similar Spec to the one I was looking at, I'd add Extended Storage (for somewhere to put your sun glasses / small items) and Lumbar Support.
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I think after 4 years mine will still be worth at least £17k (barring catastrophe).
That reminds me of another reason the M135i dropped off my shory list - no ability to select an extended 4yr warranty.
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I asked BMW the question about GFV as I thought mine was a little low (£12k after 4 years), and they said that they like the owner to build up some equity so as to have enough to put towards a deposit on a new car after the term expired so its loaded.
If you're not sure on residuals, just look at the 135i coupe, 2008 models are still selling for £15k+ for a good example.
I think after 4 years mine will still be worth at least £17k (barring catastrophe).
£12K after 4 years isn’t bad vs £13.5k after 3 years on a GTI.
Will a GTI depreciate £1500 in year 4? Yes it will
Those used prices quoted – forecourt or private sale? If forecourt then I would reckon a 5 year old £15k car would attract about £12k in p/x. That’s not bad going – GFV is generally a hugely cautious valuation for the future. Seems to me that residuals for GTI and M135i are pretty similar, maybe £500 in it either way after 4 or 5 years.
You might be thinking slightly optimistically to get £17k after 4 years, even on a private sale, maybe £14k (15% more than GFV). £16k after 3 years is probably more likely in p/x value towards your next car.
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I asked BMW the question about GFV as I thought mine was a little low (£12k after 4 years), and they said that they like the owner to build up some equity so as to have enough to put towards a deposit on a new car after the term expired so its loaded.
If you're not sure on residuals, just look at the 135i coupe, 2008 models are still selling for £15k+ for a good example.
I think after 4 years mine will still be worth at least £17k (barring catastrophe).
Hmm dont agree with the comment 135 coupe residuals. I have a 330 Ci currently and looked to change to a 135i coupe about a month or so ago, 09 plate, decent spec at Sytner BMW it was jsut under £15k and they knocked a grand off without me blinking.. Thats said its a great guy for half cost of M135
The problem is the used market hates 6 cyl motors now and when I looked at PCP for the M135i, the GFV after 3 years was lower than the GTi despite costing more to buy.
I love BMW's especially 6 cyl, but am sure the M135i will be something that most regular punters wont touch unless its from BMW and with a warranty, even if most of us know nothing will probably go wrong.
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That reminds me of another reason the M135i dropped off my shory list - no ability to select an extended 4yr warranty.
You can get 5 years. Costs you £800 though. :shocked:
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Fair few valid points there.
But, I don't think the M135i is aimed at the "everyman" like the GTI, and you will see less on the used market than GTI's, which should put the value up long-term. Considering that you are getting M3 like performance for sub £30k, I can see it being expensive still in 3 years time. The Ford Focus RS's are still mega expensive used and are more than comparable to the M135i.
If you think about it logically, if the GTI & M135i were similar value after 3/4 years (within say £500), then a lot of used buyers wouldn't even bother looking at the GTI because of the performance gap. So either the GTI used value will drop accordingly or the M135i will remain that bit higher.
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Fair few valid points there.
But, I don't think the M135i is aimed at the "everyman" like the GTI, and you will see less on the used market than GTI's, which should put the value up long-term. Considering that you are getting M3 like performance for sub £30k, I can see it being expensive still in 3 years time. The Ford Focus RS's are still mega expensive used and are more than comparable to the M135i.
If you think about it logically, if the GTI & M135i were similar value after 3/4 years (within say £500), then a lot of used buyers wouldn't even bother looking at the GTI because of the performance gap. So either the GTI used value will drop accordingly or the M135i will remain that bit higher.
No-one buys a GTI purely on the performance though, they buy it because it is very good at everything you expect of a car of its size. There will be more people looking for a practical hot hatch than are looking purely for a pocket-rocket, especially if fuel prices carry on rising.
The fact that you can get a new M135 on a standard 8-12 week build slot without a wait and the same cannot be said of the GTI would indicate that the GTI’s demand exceeds its supply and will continue to do so if VW stick to its allocation regimen. Unless you think that there will be a far bigger demand on the used market for an M135 than is satisfied by those buying new, the GTI will hold its own regarding future values.
BMWs own confidence in GFV of £12k at 4 years (43%) puts it around the same as VW would at 4 years (solutions comes in at 51% for 36 months and 45% for 44 months – extrapolating for 48 months comes in at 42% assuming linear drop to 48 months which is worst case, £260 less for the GTI than the M135).
In reality you’re likely to see a fair p/x price of about 50% of list price for both if trading in at 4 years.
If you are looking for pure performance and a short order to collection then you’ll enjoy the M135 but I seriously doubt it will be a better (or worse) financial proposition than the GTI.
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That reminds me of another reason the M135i dropped off my shory list - no ability to select an extended 4yr warranty.
You can get 5 years. Costs you £800 though. :shocked:
Isn't that for the 5yr/50,000 mile Service Pack? I looked into at the time, and if there is an extended warranty BMW don't make it obvious...
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Fair few valid points there.
But, I don't think the M135i is aimed at the "everyman" like the GTI, and you will see less on the used market than GTI's, which should put the value up long-term. Considering that you are getting M3 like performance for sub £30k, I can see it being expensive still in 3 years time. The Ford Focus RS's are still mega expensive used and are more than comparable to the M135i.
If you think about it logically, if the GTI & M135i were similar value after 3/4 years (within say £500), then a lot of used buyers wouldn't even bother looking at the GTI because of the performance gap. So either the GTI used value will drop accordingly or the M135i will remain that bit higher.
No-one buys a GTI purely on the performance though, they buy it because it is very good at everything you expect of a car of its size. There will be more people looking for a practical hot hatch than are looking purely for a pocket-rocket, especially if fuel prices carry on rising.
The fact that you can get a new M135 on a standard 8-12 week build slot without a wait and the same cannot be said of the GTI would indicate that the GTI’s demand exceeds its supply and will continue to do so if VW stick to its allocation regimen. Unless you think that there will be a far bigger demand on the used market for an M135 than is satisfied by those buying new, the GTI will hold its own regarding future values.
BMWs own confidence in GFV of £12k at 4 years (43%) puts it around the same as VW would at 4 years (solutions comes in at 51% for 36 months and 45% for 44 months – extrapolating for 48 months comes in at 42% assuming linear drop to 48 months which is worst case, £260 less for the GTI than the M135).
In reality you’re likely to see a fair p/x price of about 50% of list price for both if trading in at 4 years.
If you are looking for pure performance and a short order to collection then you’ll enjoy the M135 but I seriously doubt it will be a better (or worse) financial proposition than the GTI.
There really isn't that much difference in costs to run the M135i, I think that's a fallacy tbh.
If you drive both conservatively (which you wont), and get 35mpg for the BMW and 45mpg (doubtful based on past VW experience) for the GTI then that's about £600 difference fuel cost over the year on 16,000 miles. I cant believe people are that bothered about £600 when spending circa £30k on a car, if you were that bothered then buy the GTD?
Each to their own though, the GTI is brilliant and I will have one again, but the M will be worth a fair bit more in 4 years or ill eat my hat :wink:
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Don’t get me wrong I am a huge BMW 6 cyl fan but I think the market, especially for used, has moved on and just doesn’t like bigger engines once out of warranty – look at the M3 V8, they are going for peanuts and I reckon in 2 years you can get an E92 M3 for the same or less that an E46 M3. BMW are doing huge deposit contributions on the M3 V8 that tells you the (new and used) market doesn’t want them anymore.
I think the M135 will always be more “niche” going forward and time will tell if that leads to strong residuals or not – there are quite a few on the BMW approved website and knocking on £25k already but I certainly don’t think you can compare it to the Focus RS which was much more limited production number.
I will certainly look at an M135 if the lead time on my GTi gets out of control and I also totally agree (and have always said ) that at £25-6k new the GTi works but at £30k + its too pricey in my view.
I do think that the wider appeal and perceived lower costs of running a Golf help it longer term in terms of 5 year + residuals, especially compared to bigger engine cars, provided you don’t go silly on the options list – which goes for both cars ! You can spec an M135 up to £38k easily and a golf up to £33k if you want. It also depends how long you keep a car ! if you get rid after 2-3 years you will always be stung, if you keep it 5-7 years it will level off..
The day to day running costs of the Golf will definitely be lower though – road tax, insurance, slightly better on fuel and these are the things people look for on the used market. When I bought my 330ci 3 years ago the market had just turned and they couldn’t sell 3 litre petrol cars on used forecourts, I got it for the price of a similar age Golf Tdi which cost £10k less when new.
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to get back on topic though...
unless you are waiting for a Ferrari or such like, a really long lead time is going to put anyone off ! if it was the other way round and we all wanted an M135 and you could get a GTi in 6 weeks we would all be having that debate !
Its a fine line between supply and demand v cant be bothered to wait.. :rolleyes:
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Fair few valid points there.
But, I don't think the M135i is aimed at the "everyman" like the GTI, and you will see less on the used market than GTI's, which should put the value up long-term. Considering that you are getting M3 like performance for sub £30k, I can see it being expensive still in 3 years time. The Ford Focus RS's are still mega expensive used and are more than comparable to the M135i.
If you think about it logically, if the GTI & M135i were similar value after 3/4 years (within say £500), then a lot of used buyers wouldn't even bother looking at the GTI because of the performance gap. So either the GTI used value will drop accordingly or the M135i will remain that bit higher.
No-one buys a GTI purely on the performance though, they buy it because it is very good at everything you expect of a car of its size. There will be more people looking for a practical hot hatch than are looking purely for a pocket-rocket, especially if fuel prices carry on rising.
The fact that you can get a new M135 on a standard 8-12 week build slot without a wait and the same cannot be said of the GTI would indicate that the GTI’s demand exceeds its supply and will continue to do so if VW stick to its allocation regimen. Unless you think that there will be a far bigger demand on the used market for an M135 than is satisfied by those buying new, the GTI will hold its own regarding future values.
BMWs own confidence in GFV of £12k at 4 years (43%) puts it around the same as VW would at 4 years (solutions comes in at 51% for 36 months and 45% for 44 months – extrapolating for 48 months comes in at 42% assuming linear drop to 48 months which is worst case, £260 less for the GTI than the M135).
In reality you’re likely to see a fair p/x price of about 50% of list price for both if trading in at 4 years.
If you are looking for pure performance and a short order to collection then you’ll enjoy the M135 but I seriously doubt it will be a better (or worse) financial proposition than the GTI.
There really isn't that much difference in costs to run the M135i, I think that's a fallacy tbh.
If you drive both conservatively (which you wont), and get 35mpg for the BMW and 45mpg (doubtful based on past VW experience) for the GTI then that's about £600 difference fuel cost over the year on 16,000 miles. I cant believe people are that bothered about £600 when spending circa £30k on a car, if you were that bothered then buy the GTD?
Each to their own though, the GTI is brilliant and I will have one again, but the M will be worth a fair bit more in 4 years or ill eat my hat :wink:
I'll send you some ketchup, you're going to need it for the hat meal :wink:
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I'm prepared for a wait...up to a point.
I ordered in June, and have a provisional BW39...but, I 'll only accept the car I specced up. Any deviation from spec - like no reversing camera - will be unacceptable and I'll take my deposit back and reject the car.
I waited 51 weeks after ordering an Audi TT in 2006 to get what I wanted, so I'm prepared to wait...but I do run 2 cars, so I can be particular.
If I don't get the Golf I want by the end of October 2013, I'll be ordering an Audi S3 for March 2014 delivery - if possible!
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One thing is certain, the s3 will hold its value better than either m135 or golf !
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None of this changes the fact that you're having to wait 21 weeks for a VW. It's a VW. They sell over 400 000 Golfs a chuffing year in Germany so I bet ze Germans don't have to wait 21 weeks. So they're stringing all us along in this badge obsessed country making us wait because we think for some reason a VW is a premium car.
It's not!
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"Premium" is a relative term, and compared to some cars, it is, and to others, its not. Besides, if I wanted a golf quickly, I'd have ordered a normal model and got one comfortably in the 12 - 16 week window they stipulate at the point of ordering. Yes this waiting is a pain, but people can always vote with their pockets and cancel if they are fed up!
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Anyone know about delivery times around the world? Are the Germans getting cars quicker.
Then again, if we still had a car industry we'd still want them before the rest of the world.
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Anyone know about delivery times around the world? Are the Germans getting cars quicker.
Then again, if we still had a car industry we'd still want them before the rest of the world.
There was a link posted a while back which was effectively the German autotrader - there was at least 6 pages of GTI's for sale - so yes, they're getting them a lot quicker!
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Gryzor, how can the biggest selling car brand in Germany ever be called premium? I lived in Germany for a year and believe me, VWs are absolutely everywhere and are absolutely NOT considered in any way shape or form as premium. Germans consider Mercedes, for example, to be premium, but never VW.
I've said it before but this country is the only one which thinks VW is premium. Which of course is great for us private buyers come sale time. But the downside is the wait time which others in this thread have said they are artificially creating for this unique market.
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Anyone know about delivery times around the world? Are the Germans getting cars quicker.
Then again, if we still had a car industry we'd still want them before the rest of the world.
According to our list of main exports we do have a car industry.... only, it's owned by Nissan. :whistle:
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Anyone know about delivery times around the world? Are the Germans getting cars quicker.
Then again, if we still had a car industry we'd still want them before the rest of the world.
According to our list of main exports we do have a car industry.... only, it's owned by Nissan. :whistle:
Yes, lots of Nissans are sold up my neck of the woods - supporting the local Sunderland factory. My neighbour works for the port of Tyne authority, mainly releasing Nissans for export but overseeing arrivals too at times. Far too many Jukes around the Tyne + Wear area.
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Anyone know about delivery times around the world? Are the Germans getting cars quicker.
Then again, if we still had a car industry we'd still want them before the rest of the world.
I'm from Sweden and ordered my GTD 22/5 (as soon as VW got their ordering system working for the GTD in Sweden more or less) and my expected build date is week 42 with delivery week 45.
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Anyone know about delivery times around the world? Are the Germans getting cars quicker.
Then again, if we still had a car industry we'd still want them before the rest of the world.
I'm from Sweden and ordered my GTD 22/5 (as soon as VW got their ordering system working for the GTD in Sweden more or less) and my expected build date is week 42 with delivery week 45.
Well based on that, maybe we should all stop moaning :shocked:
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Anyone know about delivery times around the world? Are the Germans getting cars quicker.
Then again, if we still had a car industry we'd still want them before the rest of the world.
I'm from Sweden and ordered my GTD 22/5 (as soon as VW got their ordering system working for the GTD in Sweden more or less) and my expected build date is week 42 with delivery week 45.
Well based on that, maybe we should all stop moaning :shocked:
22/5 is week 21 so I guess problems aren't limited to the UK market then! 21 week to delivery sounds par for the course based on what we're seeing here. 3 weeks for delivery is bloody quick though! VW told me 4-6.
Actually thinking about it 42-45 could be 4 weeks so also normal.
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Same here bear, I got told to expect 4 - 6 weeks for delivery. Still, in theory my car should be getting built in the next couple of weeks so not too long to wait now...he says... :grin:
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Anyone know about delivery times around the world? Are the Germans getting cars quicker.
Then again, if we still had a car industry we'd still want them before the rest of the world.
I have been told to wait 4-5 months by a dealer here in South Africa for delivery. With the current demand for the car and the factory slowing down production in September, I am not getting my hopes up at all, I suspect 5-6 months :( delivery time. Hopefully I will be driving the car feb 2014.
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Clearly VW are restricting production of the GTI & GTD across the whole of Europe then. Which makes sense elsewhere as sales are down. But what I don't understand is restricting delivery to the UK, the only growth market in terms of cars in the whole of Europe (including Germany!) - we should be getting more as the demand is here. All they're doing is potentially losing customers to, say, BMW.
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Clearly VW are restricting production of the GTI & GTD across the whole of Europe then. Which makes sense elsewhere as sales are down. But what I don't understand is restricting delivery to the UK, the only growth market in terms of cars in the whole of Europe (including Germany!) - we should be getting more as the demand is here. All they're doing is potentially losing customers to, say, BMW.
The whole European launch seemed staggered considering users on various forums getting their cars. Germany first, then Netherlands/France/Spain/Italy/Austria, then Ireland, then the UK - seems that the Scandinavians are next. Anyone ordered from Central/Eastern Europe (Czech/Hungary/Romania etc) yet? I suppose everyone else is after that.
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Just out of interest, in case my delivery slips out of control... I contacted my local BMW dealer where I get my 330 serviced to see what the best deal they could do on an M135 is.
They have just come back to me - I specced it as close as I could, 3 door manual, metallic, sunroof, heated seasts, service plan. No satnav but leather is standard.
List price - £32,779 ( around £3.5k higher than my Golf)
Discount & dealer deposit - £4,334 (13.2%)
Net price - £28,485
Part ex underwritten £3200 ( VW guaranteed me £3500)
Additional BMW loyalty discount £500
Overall net price / amount financed after discounts, part ex - £23,285 (golf is £21,400)
Factory order, delivery gauranted for NEXT MONTH !! :shocked:
PCP monthly payment comes out about £30 a month higher..
Not sure if I should be tempted by this offer or delete it !!! Reckon if I got my pen out to sign I could get another £500 off.. ouch, thats really quite close in price for a much faster (if uglier) car.
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drisser, if speed is your main priority, then I'd give serious consideration to that deal. However, it is not a pretty car, and for me it isn't the all-rounder than I'm looking for. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
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I think it all comes down to how long I might have to wait, or in fact how long before i get ANY INFORMATION AT ALL on when someone will tell me when my build week will be confirmed.
I have written to the guy who sent the letter about the brochures today (Head of VW Marketing), saying thanks for the letter but i dont give a sh** about the brochure what about my car before I cancel and order an M135 and why have you managed to write me a letter about the brochure but the dealer cant tell me jack about an order placed a month ago !!?
Give me some info, at least to keep me informed. Its like anything, if you are kept in the loop its generally fine, if you hear nothing you get pi55ed off..
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to be honest I havent driven an M135 either, but am going to on Sunday just in case... will be interested to know how it compares as an overall experience to the all round brilliance of the GTi
Will post some thoughts on sunday..
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It's amazing how much they can knock off a car when they need your sale, even with the looming new plate day whcih is one of their busiest times of the year. As Drisser has specced performance pack I think speed is a biig consideration to him. Looks and slightly better practicality vs speed is what it comes down to. I bet that is a canny proposition for some here without a confirmed build date.
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thing is my dealer originally said early October build for mid to late October customer delivery ...
Given a month has passed now since I ordered and today they cant even tell me when they can tell me when build week will be confirmed.. I am starting to think early October is pie in the sky ?
I would love to have the GTi but if it comes down to a £1k difference for the M135 and its on my drive in 6 weeks, v 6 months that is worth considering. Especially as I dont want to spend any more cash on my 330Ci before getting the new motor - even a couple of tyres will be £350 wasted for example..
Will come down to Sunday I think and how the 135 drives. If it blows me away, I could be sticking with BMW, if it isnt as good an all rounder despite being faster, then I will be patient..
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I hear ya' drisser, even getting contacted to say there has been no movement but they will keep you updated is better tha nothing. I ended up contacting VW Executive Customer Services or whatever they are called, and I got a name, number, and e-mail address of an individual who did keep me regularly updated via phone calls and texts. Unfortunately, build weeks are not confirmed until about 4 weeks before its due to go into build, so you could have a bit of a wait. See how the BMW drives and take it from there. Based on what I've seen and read, I'm not sure it'll be the all-rounder that buyers of the GTI generally look for.
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tbh I am hoping I dont like the M135, but already having got a BMW 6 cyl motor I am not sure I wont like it...
As you say, will see how it drives, that is the most important thing rather than a £1 or £2k price difference..
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I think you're going to have a real dilemma come Sunday...
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It'll be easy to get sucked into the speed for sure! I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I like my cars to look nice too, and the 135 hatch doesn't do anything for me at all. Having said that, I think the 1 series coupe looks much nicer.
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totally agree with you
I did see an estoril blue 120d M sport this morning and to be fair it looked a lot better in the flesh than in pics.. but I just think the GTi is so much more cool and understated, I mean you are not likely to turn back too often and stare at the M135 when you park it up are you !
Aaagh here is hoping I dont like the 135 !! I think at the end of day it will come down to raw speed v cool understatement.
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thing is my dealer originally said early October build for mid to late October customer delivery ...
Given a month has passed now since I ordered and today they cant even tell me when they can tell me when build week will be confirmed.. I am starting to think early October is pie in the sky ?
I would love to have the GTi but if it comes down to a £1k difference for the M135 and its on my drive in 6 weeks, v 6 months that is worth considering. Especially as I dont want to spend any more cash on my 330Ci before getting the new motor - even a couple of tyres will be £350 wasted for example..
Will come down to Sunday I think and how the 135 drives. If it blows me away, I could be sticking with BMW, if it isnt as good an all rounder despite being faster, then I will be patient..
Waiting a month? Try waiting 17 weeks all ready and still another 6 (minimum) to go. If I had known how long this would take 12 weeks ago I would have got the 135i without a shadow of a doubt, and then traded that in for a Golf R in a couple of years time. Ridiculous wait for a new car. :angry:
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Dealer just mailed me..
They said if I ordered that spec of car on monday, it would be delivered to them on 10th September and keys in my hand on the 14th.
Slightly better proactive customer service...
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6 weeks from order to driving away! :shocked:
If true this totally humiliates VW.
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The BMW order system is very good by all accounts (think i mentioned this earlier in the thread).
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Hi All. Yes the GTD delivery times are ridiculous. I ordered mine last week with a minimum spec ie Dyno sound, winter pack and a base colour. Mine is a fleet order. I am aware that fleet orders can be quicker in some instances, however my estimated delivery time is JULY 2014.... :cry:
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The cars are in high demand and Volkswagen cannot produce them any quicker.
Truth of the matter is that this can happen with any car model.
When the B7 Audi RS4 first came out, it was a minimum 6 month waiting list.
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Hi All. Yes the GTD delivery times are ridiculous. I ordered mine last week with a minimum spec ie Dyno sound, winter pack and a base colour. Mine is a fleet order. I am aware that fleet orders can be quicker in some instances, however my estimated delivery time is JULY 2014.... :cry:
That has to be by far the biggest wait. Only plausible reason would be very long term unavailability of components associated with one of your options.
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Hi All. Yes the GTD delivery times are ridiculous. I ordered mine last week with a minimum spec ie Dyno sound, winter pack and a base colour. Mine is a fleet order. I am aware that fleet orders can be quicker in some instances, however my estimated delivery time is JULY 2014.... :cry:
That has to be by far the biggest wait. Only plausible reason would be very long term unavailability of components associated with one of your options......Plausible. Why did I say plausible in association with VW? :tongue:
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The cars are in high demand and Volkswagen cannot produce them any quicker.
Of course they can. They could have more shifts at the factory. If they're operating at full capacity already, then they could extend the factory. They could find additional suppliers for parts if there are shortages. Sure, they aren't going to reduce the waiting time to three months overnight, but over a period of months, they could certainly do something.
Volkswagen is one of the richest, largest car companies on the planet. Are you seriously saying that they couldn't increase production if they wanted to?
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Hi All. Yes the GTD delivery times are ridiculous. I ordered mine last week with a minimum spec ie Dyno sound, winter pack and a base colour. Mine is a fleet order. I am aware that fleet orders can be quicker in some instances, however my estimated delivery time is JULY 2014.... :cry:
I spoke to my dealer (Citygate High Wycombe) a couple of weeks ago to get an update on my order (GTD ordered end of July - now confirmed BW45) and they said that they were now looking at new orders being delivered in June, so the waiting time is definitely increasing. Mine is also a fleet order and they said they have ~45 GTD's on order - not surprising given the low (ish!) company car tax on the GTD, when compared to similar performing diesels (like my current 320d)
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I was lucky with my Gti and picked up a cancelled order, just ordered my daughter a Polo and its on a 19 week delivery ! What are VW doing ?
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Don't know fully how the old 'build week' compares but I ordered mine 3rd October and been told it should be ready for a Christmas delivery if required. This is through VW Tax Free so the ordering process might be completely different (which I suspect it is as I cannot track my order through the online order tracking webpage).
That said, I've stipulated I can't take delivery until March anyway so I can get it on the new registration and also have ample time to sort out shipping it out to Cyprus.
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Mine is due dec/jan.
BW46, ordered Sept 14th :)
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Hi All. Yes the GTD delivery times are ridiculous. I ordered mine last week with a minimum spec ie Dyno sound, winter pack and a base colour. Mine is a fleet order. I am aware that fleet orders can be quicker in some instances, however my estimated delivery time is JULY 2014.... :cry:
That has to be by far the biggest wait. Only plausible reason would be very long term unavailability of components associated with one of your options......Plausible. Why did I say plausible in association with VW? :tongue:
Thanks for that... I have read that the options can make a difference....I am contacting the lease company tomorrow to knock the options off to see if that makes a difference .... Hopefully it will ... otherwise its a cancelled order and a BMW 1 MSport which can be delivered in 10 weeks. Not my 1st choice though :angry:
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Thanks for that... I have read that the options can make a difference....I am contacting the lease company tomorrow to knock the options off to see if that makes a difference .... Hopefully it will ... otherwise its a cancelled order and a BMW 1 MSport which can be delivered in 10 weeks. Not my 1st choice though :angry:
In my opinion options won't make a difference, especially on a long lead time since that just gives them more time to get the various parts. What has happened is they have opened the order books before the factory was ready and now they have a huge backlog that just gets longer as time goes on. BTW, I got my car from BMW in 4 weeks order placed to driving out of the showroom so I'd expect much better than 10 if I were you.
In answer to the question of have they restricted production too much this time I'd say absolutely yes. I was all set to become a long term VW and GTI customer, as a result of my ordering experience, the high price they ask, and finally the long list of reliability issues, VW and their related companies have joined the list of companies I will not do business with.
FYI: Vodafone is the other current member of that list. Do not use Vodafone. I signed a 24 month contract with them for their 360 service. For the first 3 months it didn't work, for 6 months it was partially working. They then cancelled the service but expected me to continue to pay the remaining contract anyway. Months of calls and emails and threats (they made the threats) eventually led them being "generous" and ending the "contract" "early" but as far as I'm concerned they stole hundreds of pounds without providing the service they promised and so they still owe me. Do NOT do business with them. Imagine if VW called to say they're no longer making the GTI but they're going to give you a 10 year old 1.2 Polo but still take £30k off you since you are contractually obliged to pay them whatever they want, its in the small print. Vodafone = thieving bastards.
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Bear:
I would say that you can leave reliability out of the equation, anyone on a forum with other new car users is going to come across people who have issues with a new car – BMW/Audi/Merc are no exception. That’s what the warranty is for. The most significant measure of reliability for most is beyond warranty, when the manufacture wrinkles should have been ironed out and future costs are heaped upon the owner. The factory was ready to take our orders, they just decided to prioritise other markets first – save for the dash and low trim where the bonnet catch release is, there isn’t a lot that is RHD specific and they seem to be making LHD cars for most other markets just fine. Half of Europe had access to the GTI and GTD before the UK did – perhaps their initial rush has now died down, whereas ours is still going. Most people here who ordered “blind” have received theirs. We’re now seeing the cars getting built of the early adopters who waited long enough to see a demo
A mate of mine who lives in Rotterdam got his LHD GTI in 9 weeks (ordered March, got it mid may). There seems to be one of a few things going on here. Either VW cares a lot more about its other markets within Europe because maybe they have to try harder to get their money (can’t see many frenchies buying a small/medium VW over a Renault/Citroen/Peugeot, or Italians buying one over a Fiat/Alfa/Lancia), or they limit supply to preserve high GFV in this country.
For the UK market, some VWs (mainly Golf and Scirocco) are competitively priced on finance despite their comparatively high RRP - all down to the residuals. They are really making you wait for the special ones (GTI/GTD), if you want an SE or a GT then they can routinely build you one and deliver it in under 12 weeks, and the GFV is a bit lower. How many parts are unique to GTI/GTD? Apart from engines and badging, pretty much everything else is speccable as an option on an SE or GT. Their restriction of the GTI and GTD for the UK market does seem to be by design IMO.