GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: matchboy on 18 July 2013, 10:10
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Can anyone confirm how this works? What I'm after is does the auto hold kick in when you're at a standstill and still in 1st gear, or does it only work if you take the car out of gear? What I don't want is to, say, be at some lights and then wanting to pull away quickly but there being a delay because the auto hold has kicked in even though I'm in 1st gear. I suppose the same question applies for the 'Stop/Start' (I know on other cars this only kicks in if you take the car out of gear).
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From VW technical site:
When the car is braked to a standstill, Auto Hold retains the last-applied braking pressure. You can take your foot off the brake and all four wheel brakes will stay on. If the ABS wheel speed sensors detect any rolling, the braking force is automatically increased until the car comes to a standstill again. As soon as you press the accelerator again and - in the case of manual gearboxes - release the clutch, Auto Hold reduces the braking pressure.
I think if you are stopped at some lights you could flick it off while you are waiting so you can pull away as fast as you want. From my test drive I had no problems though. The stop start activates as soon as you are stopped and will deactivate when you press the clutch. It was very fast so most of the time I don't think there will be a problem, but you can disable it if you are worried. Or when at the lights just put it in gear hold it slightly with the clutch when you anticipate the lights are about to change.
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It kicks in whenever you are at a standstill regardless of gear position. I had it on a Tiguan 1.4 TSi and never had a problem with delayed release that JC described in The Times.
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It kicks in whenever you are at a standstill regardless of gear position. I had it on a Tiguan 1.4 TSi and never had a problem with delayed release that JC described in The Times.
Yeah, JC seems to have a lot of problems with certain features and then makes a big deal out of them when you do tend to think its just him being incompetent. Ok, a lot of it is for comedic effect I guess.
Not a great example but I always remember his review of an M5 about 10 years ago or something. He talked about how the car's software would let you customise just about anything and then vilified it for allowing you to set the side lights to stay on after for park for any length of seconds, rather than just offering simple choices like 0, 5 or 10. What a stupid comment, if you want less choice just dial in 5 and forget it!
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Nice one chaps. I've no problem with it kicking in as long as it doesn't delay me pulling away!
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It's brilliantly simple. A feature I thought I'd hate, it's genius.
Get in car. Put seatbelt on. Foot on clutch, first gear, go to move away and the handbrake/hold disengages seamlessly. You barely feel the sensation of it disengaging.
Stop at traffic lights and put your foot on brake. Now you can actually take your foot off the foot brake pedal and you'll notice that the handbrake on warning light comes on but it's green rather than red. This is the auto hold. Even the rear brake lights remain lit while this is engaged.
Now put car in first gear,go to move off and hold disengages. Smooth as you like.
Park car, unbuckle seatbelt and the handbrake engages.
Basically you set it once when you collect the car and you never need to touch it again.
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Sounds good, apart from the brake lights being on while it is engaged... There is nothing more annoying than being sat behind a car at the lights with their brake lights on all the time. Brake lights don't activate with a normal hand-brake, so why should they with an electronic one with auto-hold?
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My only fear with an electronic handbrake is that it might let it's grip go at some undetermined point after you've left the car parked up and you'll come back to find you car at the bottom of a hill, ploghed into someone's front wall. There's nothing more reassuring than the ratchet of a manual hand brake (unless you are a 2009 Astra owner :whistle:)
The new Skoda VRS is going to keep the manual handbrake, so it could be more fun than a GTI if hand-brake turns are your thing.
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My only fear with an electronic handbrake is that it might let it's grip go at some undetermined point after you've left the car parked up and you'll come back to find you car at the bottom of a hill, ploghed into someone's front wall. There's nothing more reassuring than the ratchet of a manual hand brake (unless you are a 2009 Astra owner :whistle:)
The new Skoda VRS is going to keep the manual handbrake, so it could be more fun than a GTI if hand-brake turns are your thing.
Must admit, I think I'd prefer a manual handbrake for the same reasons (not handbrake turns!), with auto-hold as an electronic aid when the car is at lights or in stop-start traffic.
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I've also noticed that the stop start is pretty clever. It doesn't work if the car is cold, still warming up. Neither does it work if the air con is on full blast and the cabin is still roasting.... I.e. it needs the engine power to run the aircon. Then the car may start up again while you are still sitting at the lights, just to keep up with the air con for example. All pretty clever and so quiet and smooth you'd hardly notice.
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I've also noticed that the stop start is pretty clever. It doesn't work if the car is cold, still warming up. Neither does it work if the air con is on full blast and the cabin is still roasting.... I.e. it needs the engine power to run the aircon. Then the car may start up again while you are still sitting at the lights, just to keep up with the air con for example. All pretty clever and so quiet and smooth you'd hardly notice.
Yup, that's all pretty-much standard fare with any car that has auto stop-start. My mates Focus has it, and being a petrol the stopping and starting is really smooth. Just waiting for the time he puts his foot on the clutch and the thing doesn't start! :grin:
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Good explanation Joe.
Yeah, does seem like walking away from a GTI parked on a slope is gonna feel... uncomfortable! Say it did fail and end up with body damage, this would be repaired by warranty right? The T&Cs state that they will replace the part that failed and any part also damaged directly due to the failure.
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I've been inclined to leave the car in gear while parked for this reason. I work with software and computers, so I know better than anyone that it can go wrong :grin:
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I've been inclined to leave the car in gear while parked for this reason. I work with software and computers, so I know better than anyone that it can go wrong :grin:
Very smart move, along with turning the wheel slightly so that any rollback (or forwards) will just nudge the tyre into the kerb.
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It's brilliantly simple. A feature I thought I'd hate, it's genius.
Get in car. Put seatbelt on. Foot on clutch, first gear, go to move away and the handbrake/hold disengages seamlessly. You barely feel the sensation of it disengaging.
Stop at traffic lights and put your foot on brake. Now you can actually take your foot off the foot brake pedal and you'll notice that the handbrake on warning light comes on but it's green rather than red. This is the auto hold. Even the rear brake lights remain lit while this is engaged.
Now put car in first gear,go to move off and hold disengages. Smooth as you like.
Park car, unbuckle seatbelt and the handbrake engages.
Basically you set it once when you collect the car and you never need to touch it again.
Great description - just what I was looking for to help understand how it all works!
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Good explanation Joe.
Yeah, does seem like walking away from a GTI parked on a slope is gonna feel... uncomfortable! Say it did fail and end up with body damage, this would be repaired by warranty right? The T&Cs state that they will replace the part that failed and any part also damaged directly due to the failure.
I bet they'd weasel out of it somehow and compel you to use your own insurance. Might carry a set of airplane chocks everywhere I drive! :grin:
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Might carry a set of airplane chocks everywhere I drive! :grin:
Brilliant! :grin:
Edit: To be fair, my cousin has a CC, and he's never mentioned any issues at all with the e-brake on his, and he just leaves it in auto all the time. Hopefully it'll just work as advertised!
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It really does do exactly as it says on the tin.
I was skeptical. What's the point, what was wrong with a regular handbrake... Etc...
But I'm pleasantly surprised. Great feature.
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Great stuff Joe, all the best buddy :cool:
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Thanks Joe! Top description!
My only concern is that my driveway is on a hill, and its steep so I'd take out a few houses if it rolled back and gained speed! But I'm guessing that when I pull up, foot on brake then turn the ignition off, the parking brake goes on straight away. I always leave my car in gear anyway so that'll be the failsafe.
I'm guessing it will take me at least a month before I stop reaching for the handbrake :grin:
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Can you leave a DSG in gear?
Regarding it failing, I wonder what the fail safe is? Does it fail and stay on, or fail and stay off? As we've discussed if it fails to off then that could cause some big problems so I'm inclined to think they set it up to fail on. If they do then I guess if it fails you'll go to pull away from those lights and... oh.... not going anywhere. :evil:
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Can you leave a DSG in gear?
Regarding it failing, I wonder what the fail safe is? Does it fail and stay on, or fail and stay off? As we've discussed if it fails to off then that could cause some big problems so I'm inclined to think they set it up to fail on. If they do then I guess if it fails you'll go to pull away from those lights and... oh.... not going anywhere. :evil:
Search on Google for EPB failures and you'll find the answer you probably didn't want (along with some interesting stories!) ;)
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Search on Google for EPB failures and you'll find the answer you probably didn't want (along with some interesting stories!) ;)
I don't think that will help. I was asking how the Golf mk7 parking brake works (rather how it fails), not just the worst case for a parking brake failure for any car ever. I'm just wondering if when it fails it is designed to apply the brake, or release it. Unless a new mk7 has already suffered a failure and posted the story on Google.
Anyone with a DSG able to confirm if you can leave it in gear?
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I don't think that will help. I was asking how the Golf mk7 parking brake works (rather how it fails), not just the worst case for a parking brake failure for any car ever. I'm just wondering if when it fails it is designed to apply the brake, or release it. Unless a new mk7 has already suffered a failure and posted the story on Google.
Anyone with a DSG able to confirm if you can leave it in gear?
OK, I did imply a search on VW cars, and for that there are stories of failure where it fails "off", i.e. does not apply the brake. Not sure about DSG, but I'll be leaving mine in gear anyway!
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Anyone with a DSG able to confirm if you can leave it in gear?
Putting an auto in P is effectively leaving it in gear
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Thanks Joe! Top description!
My only concern is that my driveway is on a hill, and its steep so I'd take out a few houses if it rolled back and gained speed! But I'm guessing that when I pull up, foot on brake then turn the ignition off, the parking brake goes on straight away. I always leave my car in gear anyway so that'll be the failsafe.
I'm guessing it will take me at least a month before I stop reaching for the handbrake :grin:
Haha! I was the same but you'd be surprised how quickly you'll get used to it.
I have keyless too and for the first few days I was reaching for the non existent ignition! I'm used to it now though, so much so, I get into the GF's car and I'm reaching for the start button :laugh:
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How does this work in the DSG?
For example, you are in 'drive', stop at some lights. When/how does the auto-hold and start-stop kick in? To move again, do you just tap the accelerator? Not sure how you'd "creep" with this?
Sorry - the demo car was a manual, but I went for DSG. But really not sure how this technology works with that gearbox.
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How does this work in the DSG?
For example, you are in 'drive', stop at some lights. When/how does the auto-hold and start-stop kick in? To move again, do you just tap the accelerator? Not sure how you'd "creep" with this?
Sorry - the demo car was a manual, but I went for DSG. But really not sure how this technology works with that gearbox.
I understand that in the DSG when you bring the car to a stop it will go to neutral and the parking brake will engage. When you touch the accelerator it will disengage the brake.
Potentially more delay than in a manual, but I think you'd want to disengage it manually in both cars if you were aiming for a fast start, just as you would do with a regular hand brake.
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Seems that if you have DSG then hill starts and stops are not an issue all works as you expect. What isn't clear is how you could park on a hill.
If you are close to other cars you don't want to lurch forward or backward into them, with a manual I would be rolling the car back and controlling with the foot brake, then going forward and controlling with the clutch in order to edge in/out of a tight space.
With the auto hold it seems like best case you've got to be really careful. Stopping the car with the foot brake is fine, then you put the DSG in 1 or R... now the tricky bit, you need to accelerate to disengage the brake, but then immediately stop accelerating. I think reverse would be worse because you have to control using the foot brake against the DSG yet not bring the car to a full stop or the parking brake will engage and you'll need to accelerate again (only now the space is smaller!). In a manual I would be edging the car forward or back a few inches at a time, but with auto hold I don't see how this is really possible. It expects you to be smoothly drawing away at speed...
Perhaps I should have ordered park assist.
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Sounds like a whole lot of faf for an extra 1,400 smackers! ;)
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Sounds like a whole lot of faf for an extra 1,400 smackers! ;)
Cambridgeshire is flat seems unlikely I'll ever have to park in a tight space on a hill. In 10 years I think I've only ever done this once while visiting someone. However, if you live on a hill and have no off street parking it might be an issue for you.
What we do have in Cambridgeshire is the A14 on which I do my commute. I spend about 50% of the time in stop start crawl, and the commute is about 90% of my week day car use. Near the end of a commute my left foot is sometimes pretty sore. For me, DSG and ADC are the way to go without a doubt. If I'd gone manual I'd be regretting it a week in.
Talk of the devil... just had an alert email at work: incident at M11/A14 junction. Great.
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If you need to press the button to disengage the auto hold. On the tiguan ive got a button and if i need to roll back or forward i just press it to turn the auto hold off. People are getting carried away with this. Its easy, non obtrusive and a great piece of tech.
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Yeah I hear ya' Bear, just raggin' ;) If we're in a lot of stop-start and commuting, I'd have gone DSG as well mate.
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I have auto handbrake and hill hold on my audi Q3 s tronic never had any problems rolling back on hill starts , even if you disengage hill hold assist the car still stays there for a while .
or you can just engage the auto handbrake to stop you rolling back which automatically disengages when you press the accelerator as long as your seat belt is fastened ,
. I think having both just complicates the issue ,and as said before you have to put it into park before the key comes out , on keyless I presume you cannot turn the engine off until its in park ???
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Been following this thread with interest, I wonder if anyone can clarify something for me.
I've seen mentioned about the Green hand brake indicator appearing (instead of normal red one) when the auto hold is engaged and that you could take your foot off the brake and the brake lights remain on.
Is the auto hold then using the brakes or a hand brake?? (all be it, the hand brake is a button press in this new GTI not a handle).
I ask because I have "hill hold assist" in my current audi and it has a conventional hand brake. When I stop on any kind of upward incline I can take my foot off the brake and the car stays in place (no hand brake manually applied) and when I pull off, once it hits bite point it releases the brake (effectively like lifting off brake pedal) and it moves off nice and smooth. So my auto hold is using the brakes to hold the car in place not the hand brake (as im not manually applying it)
I've seen suggestions in this thread that when you get to your destination you just stop and the brake engages and you can get out the car and away you go?? Which to me seems to suggest the auto hold isn't keeping the brake pedal pressure applied, but rather its putting the hand brake on and off all the time, but if that's the case then why do the brake lights stay on if its the handbrake that's holdint it?
If the auto hold is just keeping the brake pedal pressure applied, surely when you park up you would click the hand brake button and not just get out etc?
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Thought I'd chime in, if you don't mind an interloper.
The handbrake may be an electronic switch in the car but underneath there's still a mechanical system applying the brakes. In this case though it's using electric motors to apply the brakes. Personally I hate this idea as there is more complexity and hence more to go wrong. And a computer is hooked up to it all so who knows what could happen.
I believe Auto hold uses the ABS unit to maintain hydraulic pressure in the brake lines until you drive off, so from a mechanical standpoint is a separate system to the parking brake. I also believe this is the mechanism used with the DSG hold function. It is far safer than a traditional handbrake as braking force is applied to all four wheels and thus you have twice the redundancy.
As for failure, a traditional handbrake fails "off" when the cable snaps, so the electronic parking brake is no different. I'd guess there is the possibility of it failing "on" which could leave you stuck, but it depends on the motor and mechanism as to whether this would happen.
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I don't understand why some of you are getting worked up over this :laugh:
Joe gti and mcmaddy have explained its a piece of cake, if you're so concerned why did you order the car, you knew it came with the system. I get you want to alleviate any worries but until you get your own car from the dealer going over and over it ain't going to help you.
Take a chill pill, be :cool: when you get you're car you'll have is sussed in no time.......just saying :smiley:
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I don't understand why some of you are getting worked up over this :laugh:
Joe gti and mcmaddy have explained its a piece of cake, if you're so concerned why did you order the car, you knew it came with the system. I get you want to alleviate any worries but until you get your own car from the dealer going over and over it ain't going to help you.
Take a chill pill, be :cool: when you get you're car you'll have is sussed in no time.......just saying :smiley:
totally agree. couple of weeks reaching for the non existent hand brake and you'll all forget what the worrying was about. next you'll be asking about the intermittent blip of the brakes when your driving that primes the discs and pads :evil: :evil: oh just so you don't panic you can't feel a thing and the car does everything for you :tongue:
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I don't understand why some of you are getting worked up over this :laugh:
Joe gti and mcmaddy have explained its a piece of cake, if you're so concerned why did you order the car, you knew it came with the system. I get you want to alleviate any worries but until you get your own car from the dealer going over and over it ain't going to help you.
Take a chill pill, be :cool: when you get you're car you'll have is sussed in no time.......just saying :smiley:
I love new technology so i'm really looking forward to it along with the keyless entry
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I thought it was more discussing than worrying. I like discussing. :smiley:
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I was a little concerned about the e brake/hill hold and stop/start.
It actually works very well indeed and you can more or less forget about it and let the car do its thing.
It does insist you wear your seatbelt though.
The anti collision system is very impressive too, even with the cruise control off it will warn you in the display if you are getting too close, then if you get really close it will show a large red warning in the display along with an audible warning, and apply the brakes.
Serious tech.
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The tech is fantastic and never let me down in the A4...I now find it frustrating when driving the wife's car because I have to manually apply and dis-engage the handbrake (Which I have forgotten to do on a couple of occasions) :embarrassed:
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The tech is fantastic and never let me down in the A4...I now find it frustrating when driving the wife's car because I have to manually apply and dis-engage the handbrake (Which I have forgotten to do on a couple of occasions) :embarrassed:
Doh!! :rolleyes:
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Actually the electronic handbrake in the MK7 is probably more secure than a cable version. As you know in a cable version, the cable pulls on a lever cam which exerts pressure on the brake piston and forces the brake pads against the disc.
In the mk7, there isn't a cam but rather an electric motor which has a worm gear on the end. This engages with a pinion which is attached to another worm drive which is part of the caliper piston. Therefore, when the handbrake is applied, the electric motor turns very briefly and using the gears the piston is actually screwed up against the pads and discs mechanically. Furthermore, a torque and current sensing circuit measures the torque being applied to the pads but the motor and is measured each time the brake is applied. This automatically adjusts for pad wear and ensures that the pads are always pressed against the discs at the optimum pressure irrespective of pad thickness. No handbrake cable to adjust, stretch, snap etc.
In the unlikely event of an electric motor failure, there is an override pinion behind a hidden cap that can manually disengage the worm drive and allow the rear discs to be released for driving or towing to a dealership with no effect on the basic braking system at all.
Oh yes, and on DSG equipped models, when in Park, a locking pin engages with the flywheel locking the transmission and effectively giving 4 wheel handbrake.
Genius really.
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Actually the electronic handbrake in the MK7 is probably more secure than a cable version. As you know in a cable version, the cable pulls on a lever cam which exerts pressure on the brake piston and forces the brake pads against the disc.
In the mk7, there isn't a cam but rather an electric motor which has a worm gear on the end. This engages with a pinion which is attached to another worm drive which is part of the caliper piston. Therefore, when the handbrake is applied, the electric motor turns very briefly and using the gears the piston is actually screwed up against the pads and discs mechanically. Furthermore, a torque and current sensing circuit measures the torque being applied to the pads but the motor and is measured each time the brake is applied. This automatically adjusts for pad wear and ensures that the pads are always pressed against the discs at the optimum pressure irrespective of pad thickness. No handbrake cable to adjust, stretch, snap etc.
In the unlikely event of an electric motor failure, there is an override pinion behind a hidden cap that can manually disengage the worm drive and allow the rear discs to be released for driving or towing to a dealership with no effect on the basic braking system at all.
Oh yes, and on DSG equipped models, when in Park, a locking pin engages with the flywheel locking the transmission and effectively giving 4 wheel handbrake.
Genius really.
That does sound foolproof. If only the engineering side could sort out the allocation system. :whistle:
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No one has mentioned the "emergency brake" function yet.
It's not the most intuitive thing to do if you find yourself in a situation where you have to stop very quickly, but pulling up on the parking brake switch will brake all 4 wheels with more force than you could supposedly apply using the pedal. It also puts the hazard lights on.
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No one has mentioned the "emergency brake" function yet.
It's not the most intuitive thing to do if you find yourself in a situation where you have to stop very quickly, but pulling up on the parking brake switch will brake all 4 wheels with more force than you could supposedly apply using the pedal. It also puts the hazard lights on.
Won't you lose the ABS though?
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No. Pulling the toggle whether to emergency brake, or park the car applies the brakes in the same way that pressing the pedal does. The wheel speed sensors will still recognise a potential skid, and the ABS will do it's thing.
I tried this out in my Passat and it does work. I nearly went through the windscreen. :grin:
It's also a useful feature as I was able to keep my finger poised over it when I was in the passenger seat and my 9 year old lad was having his first drive.
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No. Pulling the toggle whether to emergency brake, or park the car applies the brakes in the same way that pressing the pedal does. The wheel speed sensors will still recognise a potential skid, and the ABS will do it's thing.
I tried this out in my Passat and it does work. I nearly went through the windscreen. :grin:
It's also a useful feature as I was able to keep my finger poised over it when I was in the passenger seat and my 9 year old lad was having his first drive.
Hmm, I'm confused. Norbreck21a described the electronic parking brake as electric motors, but isn't the foot bake and ABS hydraulic? Are they not two different systems? I must be missing something here.
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Sorry I'm confusing the issue here.
Yes the parking brake uses electric motors to apply the rear brakes. The Auto Hold uses the hydraulic system on all four wheels. Even tho' is is activated using the "hand brake" button, the Emergency Brake operates the hydraulic system in the same way that pressing the pedal would.
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Thanks dubber!
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The tech is fantastic and never let me down in the A4...I now find it frustrating when driving the wife's car because I have to manually apply and dis-engage the handbrake (Which I have forgotten to do on a couple of occasions) :embarrassed:
Doh!! :rolleyes:
..and there I was looking cool in the wife's Fiat 500... :nerd:
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The tech is fantastic and never let me down in the A4...I now find it frustrating when driving the wife's car because I have to manually apply and dis-engage the handbrake (Which I have forgotten to do on a couple of occasions) :embarrassed:
Doh!! :rolleyes:
..and there I was looking cool in the wife's Fiat 500... :nerd:
Is that possible in a Fiat? :grin: :grin:
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The tech is fantastic and never let me down in the A4...I now find it frustrating when driving the wife's car because I have to manually apply and dis-engage the handbrake (Which I have forgotten to do on a couple of occasions) :embarrassed:
Doh!! :rolleyes:
..and there I was looking cool in the wife's Fiat 500... :nerd:
Is that possible in a Fiat? :grin: :grin:
If anyone asks, it's a Ferrari of course :grin: :grin:...well, it's red at least ;)
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I quite like the electronic handbrake now I am used to it.
It does however say in the manual to put the car in gear when you have switched off and are leaving the vehicle.