GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Berelli on 25 June 2013, 18:21
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http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-mercedes-a45-amg-vs-golf-gti-vs-bmw-m135i
Best all rounder the GTI - I say!!!!
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http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-mercedes-a45-amg-vs-golf-gti-vs-bmw-m135i
Best all rounder the GTI - I say!!!!
God the Merc looks cheap, especially that nasty dash with bolt on Skoda Citigo screen, no doubt it's brutal though. The Golf looks the most sorted by some distance, also the best looking (subjective, I know). To even be testing the GTI against cars from the class above is a compliment really. This would be the grouptest for the Golf R really if there was one.
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A great complement to the GTI to even be included with those cars in a review...
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http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-mercedes-a45-amg-vs-golf-gti-vs-bmw-m135i
Best all rounder the GTI - I say!!!!
God the Merc looks cheap, especially that nasty dash with bolt on Skoda Citigo screen, no doubt it's brutal though. The Golf looks the most sorted by some distance, also the best looking (subjective, I know). To even be testing the GTI against cars from the class above is a compliment really. This would be the grouptest for the Golf R really if there was one.
Agreed, the GTI is the winner all things considered.
Think when the R takes them on in a group test it will kick butt, personally don't need or want that level of quick though.
Like the fact that Sutcliffe would take the GTI if it were his money :grin:
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Sort of review I like as on UK Roads and being narrated as experienced and not by script -
Not only is the BMW the ugliest there it is also the most ragged once off the straight line and no point having all that power if you have to back off it as go around bends! Was not a fan before but was bowing to all those who state what a beast it is, but having seen that you can absolutely keep it! In wet? Stuff of horrors!
Not a fan of the Mercedes 1 series at all, the quickest I left a showroom was after having a good look around one truly hated it, interior was awful and letter box views and that media screen?!! awful. but this is a different beast obviously and if equal you may consider it over GTI but at £37k!!!
Not a fair comparison in straight lines as power outputs are so far apart but the GTI holds it's own against Mercedes under them bends as conditions and was obviously far better than BMW off the straight line.
Given what was being compared against the GTI, though should have really been a distant 3rd but the comparison actually displayed what a great car the GTI is and much as reviewer admitted and should have made everyone here smile broadly seeing that review.
6.4 seconds is quick enough for anyone and when add in the ride, handling (he praised the steering highly in contrast to many reviewers who say it is somehow 'detached' ?? looked very sharp and as he says 'natural' to me) and overall quality of GTI you have got the complete car really.
PS: Impressed with the GTI DSG as he went through gears as quick seamless changes
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I so can't wait to get my hands on my mk7! I had a sit in an A class with the AMG kit on a little while back and being honest it was quite a nice interior but the boot is tiny and the rear end is hideous, although i would really like a go in the A45 i don't think i'd want to own one!
I quite like the 135i styling but really don't like the interior, too many little annoyances and not enough room in the back, although again i wouldn't mind a go in one.
The GTI is way out of it's depth when it comes to straight line pace but i reckon if you were a little unhinged you could maybe keep up on roads like that? The GTI is still the one that floats my boat and ticks most (not all) of the boxes that matter. 8)
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Copied into the reviews thread as well.... :)
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Pretty pointless having the GTI in that test - was always going to get p!ssed on by the other two in a straight line - nearly 2 secs off the pace, would be like testing a GTI against diesel civic - what's the point??
The R will give them a run for their money but still won't beat the Merc in a straight line.
I do quite like the Merc even though the cabin is a little funky. The 135i is a lovely car though, sat inside one a few weekends ago and the cabin oozes class - worth the cash IMO.
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Pretty pointless having the GTI in that test - was always going to get p!ssed on by the other two in a straight line - nearly 2 secs off the pace, would be like testing a GTI against diesel civic - what's the point??
The R will give them a run for their money but still won't beat the Merc in a straight line.
I do quite like the Merc even though the cabin is a little funky. The 135i is a lovely car though, sat inside one a few weekends ago and the cabin oozes class - worth the cash IMO.
Sure they must have realised this with the "do the maths" quote but decided to include GTI anyway and think it was to showcase how complete "a peach" it is as a hot hatch at a third cheaper - So it was never going to beat these cars in flat out performance but by going against them it did highlight all it's other virtues against these cars
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Merc = ugly
BMW = horrid interior
GTI wins by knockout. Sure, it's slower, but it's the only one of the three that I'd even consider buying.
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Pretty pointless having the GTI in that test - was always going to get p!ssed on by the other two in a straight line - nearly 2 secs off the pace, would be like testing a GTI against diesel civic - what's the point??
The R will give them a run for their money but still won't beat the Merc in a straight line.
I do quite like the Merc even though the cabin is a little funky. The 135i is a lovely car though, sat inside one a few weekends ago and the cabin oozes class - worth the cash IMO.
I went to all the marque dealers many times before settling on firstly the Audi and then the GTD and I really wanted to have something else wow me and was disappointed - Think the BMW is a very subjective style I certainly do not get it and am very MEH on it and that is across all the ranges, the curves and grills and everything really - maybe that is just me.
Mercedes 1, I liked a lot when saw it in photos and went eagerly to the showroom and ended up really disliking it due to the interior and claustrophobic feel and letterbox views
So it was Audi all the way until the MK7 GTI and GTD came into view.
The R will be a lot closer than GTI but think this review has already served to demonstrate how complete a performance car the MK7 is. "In isolation it is a real peach as a hot hatch"
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Surely the RS3 is a closer match in cost and capability to the Merc! Having the GTI there and not panning it is a big deal really. :laugh:
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I'm pleasantly surprised with the result... I was under the impression that the M-lite was gonna win hands down.
The Golf did surprisingly well considering the company it was in
GTi Performance 179bhp/ton vs M135i 219bhp/ton vs A45AMG 228bhp/ton...
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Surely the RS3 is a closer match in cost and capability to the Merc! Having the GTI there and not panning it is a big deal really. :laugh:
Cars on sale now.
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Not really a fair test is it. These are the flagship A Class and 1 Series against the GTI. Should be the R they're compared to when it gets released.
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Not really a fair test is it. These are the flagship A Class and 1 Series against the GTI. Should be the R they're compared to when it gets released.
I agree it was a little "unfair" to include the GTi in this particular 'Shootout' (we all knew which would be the quickest based on the stats).....but I suppose what the Editor was trying to do was select three of the "latest" & most talked about hot hatches on the current market and pitch them head to head, to see whether or not you could get the same level of thrill & driver enjoyment from a car that costs £10k less (with the BMW providing the benchmark, sitting somewhere in between).
And the answer is a resounding "Yes!" The GTi truly is a great 'drivers' car...
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Really quite a pointless review. It should just have been a straight shoot out between the Merc and the Beemer. What's the point of seeing if the Golf can keep up with the merc, I mean c'mon 230bhp vs 350bhp :huh:. You don't need a rocket scientist to work out the result of that test.
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Really quite a pointless review. It should just have been a straight shoot out between the Merc and the Beemer. What's the point of seeing if the Golf can keep up with the merc, I mean c'mon 230bhp vs 350bhp :huh:. You don't need a rocket scientist to work out the result of that test.
It kinda reminds me of Moneyball (Who has seen it/read it? If you haven't go do so now! Awesome look at management and at statistics, let alone the underdog and pioneer aspects of the story.)
$40million vs $110million
Oakland A's vs NY Yankees
The point, one of the points, of that story is that its not just about what you can do, it is also about doing it efficiently. --- EDIT: sh!t forgot about spoilers, so removed this bit --- Arguably the same applies here:
£40k vs £28k
A45 AMG vs GTI Performance
Is the AMG worth the extra money, or does the Golf offer more bang for its buck? Another example would be the way horse power is thrown around by cars like the VXR and Megan 265. Horse power alone is no use, its how you get it on the road that matters. Statistics are not helpful if they are not properly understood.
Then again I tend to agree with you, this isn't how road tests should really be done. Few people are going to choose between an A45 and a GTI, it will be RS3 vs A45 and Focus ST vs GTI (or whatever). Hypothetically they could have decided the A45 is overpriced and then made a case against it with the GTI as an example of better value, but an open ended road test? Bit silly really.
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Just to let you all know the "Mega-hatch mega-test" is also nicely written up in this weeks Autocar (26th June). Nice read & some great pics too :cool:
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Unfair comparison as the Merc and BMW are in a higher performance league.
The A45 AMG is the best but at quite a price hike.
The M135i seems good value for money but has suspect steering and body control.
The Mk7 GTI is the slow coach but a well sorted car.
Audi S3 should really be compared with the A45 AMG and BMW M135i.
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Audi S3 should really be compared with the A45 AMG and BMW M135i.
S3, or RS3? S3 to the Beemer, but RS3 to the A45 I would suggest. i.e. even the BMW and Merc aren't exactly in the same class. I'm not sure class is quite the right word, more like degree. The A45 is taken to a higher degree than the M135i. When the M2 appears I'm guessing it will be the direct comparison to the A45 and RS3.
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Audi S3 should really be compared with the A45 AMG and BMW M135i.
S3, or RS3? S3 to the Beemer, but RS3 to the A45 I would suggest. i.e. even the BMW and Merc aren't exactly in the same class. I'm not sure class is quite the right word, more like degree. The A45 is taken to a higher degree than the M135i. When the M2 appears I'm guessing it will be the direct comparison to the A45 and RS3.
I would expect the RS3 and M2 to be in a similar price bracket to the Merc as well. I bet you that both will be far superior to the Merc when the reviews come out.
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Audi S3 should really be compared with the A45 AMG and BMW M135i.
S3, or RS3? S3 to the Beemer, but RS3 to the A45 I would suggest. i.e. even the BMW and Merc aren't exactly in the same class. I'm not sure class is quite the right word, more like degree. The A45 is taken to a higher degree than the M135i. When the M2 appears I'm guessing it will be the direct comparison to the A45 and RS3.
I would expect the RS3 and M2 to be in a similar price bracket to the Merc as well. I bet you that both will be far superior to the Merc when the reviews come out.
My money would be on the M2 to win hands down. Pure speculation here of course! :tongue:
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The M cars are pure class, one day I will have a brand new M5 in Estoril Blue
(In my dreams)
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(In my dreams)
... and assuming there is any (affordable) oil left in 10 years time. Or 5 for that matter. Enjoying a GTI now rather than waiting and doing something sensible like pay off my mortgage is to some degree a result of wondering if in the not to distance future we'll be moving towards electric in a serious way.
I can't see road transport, especially personal road transport, being anywhere but the bottom of the priority list for a diminishing oil supply when compared to chemicals, medicine, agriculture, lubricants, plastics, naval fuel, power generation, aviation, or space. And that is before we realise we have a viable electric vehicle but no alternatives for the above uses, save nuclear for the power plant (maybe). :cry:
Enjoy it now!
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Yep, sooner or later we'll all be stuck in electric cars that are computer controlled and limited to 50 - so best enjoy it now!!
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The BMW F20 1 Series will have a facelift in 2014 so that the it can show its face in broad daylight. There will also be some other tweeks to its performance.
I've driven the A45 AMG and felt my spine could not stand the bone shaking ride on our terrible roads. I preferred the M135i for everyday use. So I don't know what Steve Sutcliffe is talking about re the Merc's goodish ride.
There is also a comparison in the latest 'Car' Mag by Georg Kacher between the A45 AMG, M135i and Audi S3. Merc the winner but with caveats, one of them being the harsh ride.
But when the M2 and RS3 arrive, they'll give the Merc a bloody nose. So Merc has the title for best mad hot hatch for a short time.
Me: for now I'll stick with my BMW F30 330d sDrive M Sport, 0-60 mph in 5.3s and 40+ mpg in town.
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Don't worry too much about the oil Bear. There is quite a lot left! Previous oil wells only extracted about 10-20% of the reserve. Technology is improving and i think we are up to about 30-40% now. So there is still a lot left!
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Yep, sooner or later we'll all be stuck in electric cars that are computer controlled and limited to 50 - so best enjoy it now!!
LoL, exactly my thoughts too :smiley:
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The M cars are pure class, one day I will have a brand new M5 in Estoril Blue
(In my dreams)
I was very tempted with a 3 year old one about a year ago. My cousin's neighbour was crippled in an accident in his teens and received a lottery win style payout as a result. Every 3 years he buys himself a brand new M5, washes it twice a week, never takes it out in the rain (I think he's crazy on that point!), does about 6k miles a year in it and gets about £24k at trade-in time.
He offered his next one to me for whatever the garage offered in part-ex, knowing I buy cars in that price range (albeit new). It was very tempting (I was prepared to pay a daft fuel bill for that kind of saving on that kind of car), but it would have never fitted in our garage (too wide) and it's not the kind of motor i'd want out on the drive or the street.
His garage is like a fortress (resembles Tony Stark's workshop), I thought it would be inevitable that i'd get burgled for the car keys at some point (even though we live in a nice area) and decided it wasn't worth the chew. Occasionally I regret that decision - I suppose if I change my mind I have 2 years to wait until his next one is available.
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The thing is, i'm getting a GTD. I would love a petrol hot hatch but it's not cost effective for me.
And despite the two cars it's up against - I really lust for that GTI in the test, and not the other two. Ironic isn't it?
I would much rather get the GTI with Performance Pack, and pretty much all the necessary toys and pocket nearly £10k change from the Merc.
There's also something about AMG that is synonymous with masses of raw engine power and size. I do actually like that about the bigger cars like the C Class Coupe with a monstrous 6,2 V8. Seeing this AMG with a Turbocharged 4 pot is..not right in some way. It suits the 'cheaper', smaller hot hatches, but I honestly can't see it being as mad as the BMW's engine.
Obviously i'm saying all this and i've only drove the 135i out of all three cars. But that's just my view from the outside.
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Merc really have to do something about their build quality. Doesn't matter what their performance figures are, when you step inside one it feels cheap and nasty - pretty much on par with a Fiat. I had a look at the A-class Merc (seeing as it's a Scirocco clone) a while back and the tactile feel of the cabin felt so wrong I didn't even want a test drive.
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Yep, sooner or later we'll all be stuck in electric cars that are computer controlled and limited to 50 - so best enjoy it now!!
Do you not think we are heading that way already with ADC? Mate the ADC with DSG and you pretty much just have to steer the car. If you could tie in the satnav with it all it probably wouldn't take much more tech for the MK7 Golf to drive itself (it would need to know to stop for traffic lights and what the speed limits were on any particular road, but that's pretty much it).
Some scary stories on other forums about false positives with the ADC jamming on the brakes when something big like a truck or bus passes by in the adjacent lane. I think mine will be permanently switched off.
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That's a good point you know. I've been thinking about this and have to say I'm not entirely comfortable with the ADC either. Call me old fashioned but I'm not happy with are 'driving' themselves. I just don't trust computers! Took me a year to trust the auto lights!! :laugh:
Sorry to hear about your cousin. You must have been tempted by the M5 though! Trouble is the running costs are ridiculous, you'd be lucky to get 15 mpg. It's an amazing car but you've got to be seriously flushed to run it.
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That's a good point you know. I've been thinking about this and have to say I'm not entirely comfortable with the ADC either. Call me old fashioned but I'm not happy with are 'driving' themselves. I just don't trust computers! Took me a year to trust the auto lights!! :laugh:
I must admit, the idea of ADC appeals to me, up to a point. There are times on the motorway when it would be nice to just set it to whatever and not worry about the vehicle in front slowing a bit. But, with a DSG handling gear changes down to the very low speeds...that feels like too much control out of my hands! Funny you say about the auto lights - I still sometimes turn around and wait to see if they really have gone off, and that's after 8 years of owning the car! :grin:
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That's a good point you know. I've been thinking about this and have to say I'm not entirely comfortable with the ADC either. Call me old fashioned but I'm not happy with are 'driving' themselves. I just don't trust computers! Took me a year to trust the auto lights!! :laugh:
Sorry to hear about your cousin. You must have been tempted by the M5 though! Trouble is the running costs are ridiculous, you'd be lucky to get 15 mpg. It's an amazing car but you've got to be seriously flushed to run it.
It's my cousin's neighbour, my cousin is fine, and his neighbour still gets about fine. We all have a bit of a joke about how my cousin's neighbour is called Joe and looks like Joe out of Family Guy, with my cousin Bryan looking like Peter Griffin (would've been better if he looked like Brian the dog)..
The M5 is very tempting, but one huge out of warranty issue and i'd wish I hadn't bought it even without fuelling considerations.
There's a Porsche 911 GT2 I see on the road most mornings and pass it. The driver of it drives like a saint, and sometimes I can't help wondering whether it's because his car will capture the immediate attention of any bobbies on the road, whether he drives that slow so everyone can get a good look at what he's driving, or whether he wants to try and squeeze 25mpg out of it instead of 18mpg on his commute to work.
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Merc really have to do something about their build quality. Doesn't matter what their performance figures are, when you step inside one it feels cheap and nasty - pretty much on par with a Fiat. I had a look at the A-class Merc (seeing as it's a Scirocco clone) a while back and the tactile feel of the cabin felt so wrong I didn't even want a test drive.
In what way is the Merc a Scirocco clone?
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In what way is the Merc a Scirocco clone?
It looks a hell of a lot like one (apart from the back end which looks like it's off a Toyota Auris).
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The question is this:
Could I live with a super hard ride of the A45 AMG (some call this planted) in everyday use on our terrible roads?
My answer is: No.
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In what way is the Merc a Scirocco clone?
It looks a hell of a lot like one (apart from the back end which looks like it's off a Toyota Auris).
Really liked the A Class in photos and was quite eager to go see it in flesh and seriously add it to consideration so I was open minded and optimistic.
Did not mind the style too much maybe a bit OTT for me in it sport style but was still open to having it grow on me but once inside it was game over as hugely claustrophobic and the doors seemed so high and windows so small given letterbox visibility and the interior itself really did not grab me and any interest in that aspect was ended with that media screen.
Did read all the reviews to and hardly glowing anywhere with common theme of harsh ride and coming off an S Line suspension this was high up on my list to address as it wears on you more than think. - Chris Harris review on Comfort through to Sport ride options has me knowing my world is going to change quite dramatically in ride stakes - Did 300 miles yesterday and though fun when can push it or pull away easily in 6th on Motorway the UK roads shuddered through body one too many times really.
If it was a serious contender I would have test drove self to understand ride and handling but to be honest there was an instant turn off of no return with the A class.
Looks is most subjective issue I would never criticise anyone on, where understated is perfect to some it is boring to others and in your face ostentatious styling is loved by some, yet hideous and garish to others.
Subtlety and understated as in there is a lot more car here than it is giving away for me and this GTI/GTD ticks that and so many other boxes.
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Thought the video was great. Lets not forget that the BMW is not an M division car, that is the 1M. There is a MASSIVE difference between a normal breathed on BMW and a proper M Car. The Mercedes is a proper AMG. Therein itself is the reason why the AMG beats the BMW.
The point of the test was to compare three cars at different price points but similar ethos. In my mind the Golf came out fantastically well, and what a great noise it makes compared to the other two?
Can't wait for mine to turn up, still no build date for me! ;)
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CAR magazine have just done a similar test but substituted an S3 instead of the GTI and order was
1. Merc
2. BMW
3. S3
Probably a more realistic comparison but combining the two tests means the GTI is better than a BMW and an S3!!
Haha!