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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Hobojim on 21 June 2013, 14:41
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Hello all, I have spotted a lot of posts asking for a review of the DSG box. I test drove a GT trim 2.0TDI with the DSG box.
Setting off in the GT was very smooth and all very pleasant I rolled gently out of the forecourt down the little road to the main road and touched the brakes gently.... and put the dealer through the windscreen. The brakes are sharp! like stupidly sharp. Easily the worst part of the car, it will take a bit of getting used to i think.
Straight into Glasgow rush hour traffic. Stop and go for a bit. This is where the dsg was best IMHO, also in combo with the auto handbrake. Just push the accelerator when you want to go, brake when you want to stop, foot off the brake when you have stopped. Idiot proof city driving. Really was truly excellent, completely takes the stress out of traffic.
Onto the ring road, 50 mph heavy traffic. Smooth, selects a nice low gear, cruises well. Squeeze the accelerator as traffic speeds up, very rapidly gets to 70 with one smooth gear change. No need to change down before accelerating. Really is very smooth!
Got onto the M8, 40mph stamped on the accelerator to WOT. Revs climb, but the box takes a while to decide its best gear but when it did it went like a stabbed rat, and that is where i didn't like it. In full auto mode you are going to confuse the poor thing. It was a lot better than other auto boxes I have driven (Nissan Laurel being the worst. Faster to decide than the BMW 1 series box i would say.)
Put it into manual mode, but it was changing gear before me a lot of the time. A flash of the software could be an option like the mk5/6 to force it to hold gears until you decide.
So in summary very good if auto boxes are your thing, but its a manual in this type of car for me. Would definitely consider the DSG in a polo or whatever if i was hacking about town a lot! Very impressed with its city driving.
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Hello all, I have spotted a lot of posts asking for a review of the DSG box.
That was me! Thanks for obliging so fast, I'll have a read.
anyone else who wants to chip in with a review would be welcome, I'm sure opinions vary between us!
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Mind if I ask some questions, couple of things I didn't quite understand:
Revs climb, but the box takes a while to decide its best gear but when it did it went like a stabbed rat, and that is where i didn't like it. In full auto mode you are going to confuse the poor thing.
What was wrong here? When you wanted full acceleration it was slow to... down change? Or slow to up change after the initial down change? Was this in D mode? How did it compare to putting it in S, was the response more to your liking? Not totally sure what you mean by stabbed rat either :evil: you mean fast? That is good isn't it?
Put it into manual mode, but it was changing gear before me a lot of the time. A flash of the software could be an option like the mk5/6 to force it to hold gears until you decide.
Little confused here as well. It was in manual but was still making auto changes? I thought it would only auto change in manual if it detected you were about to stall or red line? Presumably you were not about to stall or red line so why did it change for you? Sounds like it was still in D? I'm confused as to were you in D, but were overriding it by pressing a paddle (which I think gives you 30 seconds of manual mode, but then it takes over again) or was it permanently in manual mode but for some reason kept dropping back to D (which I don't get)?
Thanks for the write up though, great info!
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It takes a while to learn how to drive a DSG box well. If you stamp on the throttle so that it kicks down once it's had time to think before reving it's nuts off, it's never going to be smooth.
A slight squeeze of the throttle will instigate a gear change to two as required ready to accelerate away without fuss. Equally a slight lift will induce and upshift if you want one. Of course there are the paddles as well which will over ride the Auto mode for a short time without having to move the lever over from D.
I like DSG for the effortlessness of a full auto, as well as the manual mode with paddles for when you are pressing on. We have just been driving round the Isle of Man and my DSG Passat was just brilliant.
Just try to keep away from full throttle and the kick down switch.
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I've also driven the Mk7 GTD DSG and there is a slight delay when putting your foot down on the accelerator to it taking off but I saw this as a good thing really as it only had the delay in D mode for me (where it thinks you want to drive normally). S mode sharpens up the throttle response and the delay is minimal and once it gets going, it flies!
Ill write a review also when I get back from work. But in short, you can solve your problem by moving the gear across to the side which gives you full manual control until you drop it back in to S or D this will allow you to drive the car like a manual if you so desire. Best of both worlds.
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I've also driven the Mk7 GTD DSG and there is a slight delay when putting your foot down on the accelerator to it taking off but I saw this as a good thing really as it only had the delay in D mode for me (where it thinks you want to drive normally). S mode sharpens up the throttle response and the delay is minimal and once it gets going, it flies!
Ill write a review also when I get back from work. But in short, you can solve your problem by moving the gear across to the side which gives you full manual control until you drop it back in to S or D this will allow you to drive the car like a manual if you so desire. Best of both worlds.
There's a MKVII GTD in the country? I didn't realise they had arrived in the dealers yet! Please tell all? And any pics??
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There's a MKVII GTD in the country? I didn't realise they had arrived in the dealers yet! Please tell all? And any pics??
You want this tread:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=254428.0
Now back to DSG I'm super keen for info! :evil:
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I've been driving the 7 speed DSG unit in my Scirocco for the last 4 years. I love it! Don't think I'd go back to manual now especially with the heavy traffic I face most mornings. This is where the DSG comes into its own. It's a joy to use in heavy, stop-start traffic. Takes a lot of the stress out of driving. So if we combine DSG with the new ADC the car will practically drive itself. Can't wait for that experience.
As Dubber36 said you have to learn how to drive with it. Took me nearly a year to perfect it after a lifetime of manuals. Well worth it though :)
I use 'D' (Drive) most if the time. However I do override it useing paddles for going down a steep hill and want to employ engine breaking. I only use 'S' (Sport) mode when I want to give it some beans on the limit (best for petrol engine). Ragging the red line in a diesel is not recommended.
Obviously you don't have quite the control of a manual, and the purists dont like DSG. But, that's a small price to pay for the joy it delivers (+ 60% less stress in shocking traffic).
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I read that if driving hard, the auto drives as if it were a petrol model ie taking it into high revs instead of the optimum torque / turbo range.
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Revs climb, but the box takes a while to decide its best gear but when it did it went like a stabbed rat, and that is where i didn't like it. In full auto mode you are going to confuse the poor thing.
When you wanted the full beans it was slow to down change. Not really slow, just not quick. In S mode it was the same. Throttle was sharper though.
Put it into manual mode, but it was changing gear before me a lot of the time. A flash of the software could be an option like the mk5/6 to force it to hold gears until you decide.
Yeh I have no idea tbh, I put it in manual mode and every now and again it would change gear at the extremes of revs - low or high - when I didn't want it to. This was a diesel mind you and i'm used to a petrol so that might be why. Again as dubber said its a tool you have to get used to. I was only really driving the GT to decide if I wanted ACC or not, wasn't overly paying attention to the DSG box. But was very suprised with how nice it was for traffic. but when it came to having fun I wanted the manual for sure. I'm sure the DSG box makes a faster lap time. But for me I'm not after that.
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I use 'D' (Drive) most if the time. However I do override it useing paddles for going down a steep hill and want to employ engine breaking.
If you slow the car enough using the brakes going down hill, it will change down to an appropriate gear to engine brake, if you come off the brakes, it will hold that gear until you press the throttle again.
I read that if driving hard, the auto drives as if it were a petrol model ie taking it into high revs instead of the optimum torque / turbo range.
They do that because if your foot is planted, it thinks you may want maximum revs. People would also complain if it changed up at 4000rpm, without using the rest of the available revs (even tho' there's no point.) You just need a flick of the right hand paddle to upshift when you want to. Easy peasy.
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To have to remember as well that the DSG mechatronics unit learns your driving style and adapts accordingly (I.e. is semi intelligent). That's great if you are the only driver, but if you are driving a demo car and a number of people have driven it before you, then it won't have "learned" an optimum style.
The DSG box can be set back to factory mode by performing a DSG basic settings flash using VAG-COM (or get your dealer to do it if buying second hand)
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Got onto the M8, 40mph stamped on the accelerator to WOT. Revs climb, but the box takes a while to decide its best gear but when it did it went like a stabbed rat, and that is where i didn't like it.
The Mark 6 box is the same. It can be a bit dopey if you push the accelerator too much and it takes a while to get going. I notice this most when pulling out on to roundabouts and the like.
Other than that, it's a fantastic gearbox.
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Got onto the M8, 40mph stamped on the accelerator to WOT. Revs climb, but the box takes a while to decide its best gear but when it did it went like a stabbed rat, and that is where i didn't like it.
The Mark 6 box is the same. It can be a bit dopey if you push the accelerator too much and it takes a while to get going. I notice this most when pulling out on to roundabouts and the like.
Other than that, it's a fantastic gearbox.
Yes that is exactly it. Going out of a junction there is just that slight delay you don't get with a 'stick'.
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This is quite an interesting read, covering some of the specific little nuances of the box (particularly if using eco mode)
Taking delivery of a 2.0 tdi 150 gt dsg in 2 wks (well it is actually called "sport" where I am, but it is the same spec ) & looking forward to learning to get the best out the high-tech box.
http://www.greenmotor.co.uk/2013/03/vw-golf-7-review-2-litre-gt-tdi-dsg.html
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I dont have experience of the 6 speed DSG, but I do of the 7 speed on our Polo GTI. If I do place an order for a Mk7 Golf, I think it will be a DSG.
My current car (Scirocco) is a manual but after driving a DSG it can feel laborious to change gear! As others have said, it does have its qwirks though.
In normal 'D', it changes up, far faster than you would in a manual, you will be in 6th before you know it. On climbing hills I find it changes down one more gear than I would manually, forcing me to override it, otherwise the engine is revving harder than is necessary.
Another thing I have noticed (on the 7 speed). Having just been up hill, the box then seems slow to select 2nd, again prompting for an override otherwise the engine revs too much.
These are minor negatives though, and the positives are still enough for me to decide that a DSG is what I want next. Using the paddles is great and gives you a real 'F1' sense of driving.
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As much s I enjoy driving automatic, it can hit trouble when you want to push in in a hurry! (Sticky situations)
My Merc CDI 220 sometimes let me down that way and left me looking like a real d@#k! :grin:
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As much s I enjoy driving automatic, it can hit trouble when you want to push in in a hurry! (Sticky situations)
My Merc CDI 220 sometimes let me down that way and left me looking like a real d@#k! :grin:
I really don't think this applies to the DSG box. In fact a manual box can be cumbersome sometimes.
Btw, I drove a CDI 220 auto couple of weeks back. Didn't expect it to be so punchy. Was nice :)
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What people fail to appreciate when talking about the DSG box being slow to respond, is that both manual and DSG boxes need thinking time.
For example, if you are lining up a car to overtake, in a manual car you would select the appropriate gear to put you right in the middle of the torque band, so as soon as you could see it was safe to go, you press the throttle and you're off. In the DSG, if you've left it in D and stamp on the throttle, that's the first it knows about what you want to do, so has to work out which gear to give you. In the manual, you have done the thinking before beginning to overtake. The DSG doesn't know you are thinking about overtaking unless you have manually pre-selected a gear as you would in the manual.
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What people fail to appreciate when talking about the DSG box being slow to respond, is that both manual and DSG boxes need thinking time.
For example, if you are lining up a car to overtake, in a manual car you would select the appropriate gear to put you right in the middle of the torque band, so as soon as you could see it was safe to go, you press the throttle and you're off. In the DSG, if you've left it in D and stamp on the throttle, that's the first it knows about what you want to do, so has to work out which gear to give you. In the manual, you have done the thinking before beginning to overtake. The DSG doesn't know you are thinking about overtaking unless you have manually pre-selected a gear as you would in the manual.
So the question is "can you think quicker than a DSG box for your overtaking selection?". I can, I have experienced first-hand my dad's current car trip itself up more than a few times whilst making it's mind up. I suppose it comes down to how well you know your own car, whether to drop 1 gear or 2, and where in the rev range that gear change is going to take you.
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So the question is "can you think quicker than a DSG box for your overtaking selection?". I can, I have experienced first-hand my dad's current car trip itself up more than a few times whilst making it's mind up. I suppose it comes down to how well you know your own car, whether to drop 1 gear or 2, and where in the rev range that gear change is going to take you.
I would say no if we are talking about the time from your initial thought, to zooming off. If you are pootling at 40mph along in 6th gear, then suddenly decide to accelerate hard to overtake a car, the DSG would get you going faster than the manual. There may seem like a delay, but that's because you are not doing anything. In the manual you will be thinking about the gearing changing process, so not realise how long it's taking.
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Put it into manual mode, but it was changing gear before me a lot of the time. A flash of the software could be an option like the mk5/6 to force it to hold gears until you decide.
This comment sums up why I wouldn't entertain a DSG box.
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Put it into manual mode, but it was changing gear before me a lot of the time. A flash of the software could be an option like the mk5/6 to force it to hold gears until you decide.
This comment sums up why I wouldn't entertain a DSG box.
But it makes no sense. If the box is in manual mode then it should not be changing gear unless it detects a stall or redline. However, Jim noted later that he wasn't really focused on the DSG so can't be sure what was happening. If you just use the paddles to flick a gear while in D or S mode then after 30 seconds the DSG will take over again. If you want more than 30 seconds then you need to use manual mode.
Its kind of like putting ACC into comfort mode and then saying you'd never use ACC because the ride is too soft. The DSG needs to be used properly. If you treat it like a manual box you can't really criticise it for not doing what you want. You need to treat it like a DSG. If used properly it will do everything you could want it to except from allowing you to disengage the clutch with your foot. You can even use the knob to shift if you want just like a manual, although the motion is up down rather than sliding to the gear of choice.
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But it makes no sense. If the box is in manual mode then it should not be changing gear unless it detects a stall or redline. However, Jim noted later that he wasn't really focused on the DSG so can't be sure what was happening. If you just use the paddles to flick a gear while in D or S mode then after 30 seconds the DSG will take over again. If you want more than 30 seconds then you need to use manual mode.
Its kind of like putting ACC into comfort mode and then saying you'd never use ACC because the ride is too soft. The DSG needs to be used properly. If you treat it like a manual box you can't really criticise it for not doing what you want. You need to treat it like a DSG. If used properly it will do everything you could want it to except from allowing you to disengage the clutch with your foot. You can even use the knob to shift if you want just like a manual, although the motion is up down rather than sliding to the gear of choice.
Indeed - if the DSG is put into manual mode, control is passed over to you. Only exception (as noted above) is when slowing down, the box will then change down gears for you (or change up if hitting the red line). Apart from that, the car will hold that gear until you decide to change it.
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Indeed - if the DSG is put into manual mode, control is passed over to you. Only exception (as noted above) is when slowing down, the box will then change down gears for you (or change up if hitting the red line). Apart from that, the car will hold that gear until you decide to change it.
Add kickdown to that list too.
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Add kickdown to that list too.
Sorry, don't follow this. You mean it changes down if it detects a stall? Skippy mentioned that. Or am I confused? :P
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Add kickdown to that list too.
Sorry, don't follow this. You mean it changes down if it detects a stall? Skippy mentioned that. Or am I confused? :P
Kickdown on an auto box is when you plant your foot to the floor and the box auto changes down a gear or two for quick acceleration
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Add kickdown to that list too.
Sorry, don't follow this. You mean it changes down if it detects a stall? Skippy mentioned that. Or am I confused? :P
Kickdown on an auto box is when you plant your foot to the floor and the box auto changes down a gear or two for quick acceleration
It does this even if you are in fully manual mode? Sorry just clarifying.
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Think not - i'll check on my DSG box later
EDIT: Just checked on the drive home from work and yep kickdown works in manual mode
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Yes it does, but only if you push the pedal through the carpet.
AMD advertise a DSG software upgrade that gives you full manual control when you are in manual, meaning that you can bounce of the rev limiter, stall, and most importantly loose the kickdown function.
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Had a go in a another DSG car today, and having read the tips from the guys who own a DSG already I got on with the box a lot better. It was quicker to shift down and held gears longer in sport mode. Which was nice for fast long corners, holding the revs rather than changing up. In proper manual mode ( stick knocked to left ) it held gear until you redlined, which was good.
In auto mode the tip of clicking down before putting your foot down worked well.
Really got the hammer down from a standing start at one point and was over a ton in 3 rd before I new it.
Must say I was impressed with the box. You definitely need to learn to use it properly. I would say if you are umming and Arring, get it you will not be dissapointed.
Still a manual for me though!
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Thanks for the update Jim, appreciated!