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General => General discussion => Topic started by: [han] on 18 June 2013, 06:45
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So i've had a wonderful 10days in the South of France.
Come home to find bastards have tried to steal the mk1 that doesnt run from the drive. This has resulted the car being recovered and me being in a predicament.
I need help QUICK!
the cabby doesn't run, so was left parked on my driveway, no insurance for theft because it won't start and isn't in a good way atm. (Yes i could have put a policy on it, but it couldn't be driven away and any theft damage we can fix)
13th june some dickheads try to steal it, push it backwards down my drive onto the road in a straight line, break in and leave it with all doors open in the middle of the road. This is reported by my neighbour at 3:50am and Police attend. Because the vehicle can't be secured without my authority as the owner as I am not home, police tried my door to no avail. One of my neighbours tried calling while i was away but the number was unknown and they didn't leave a message.
I had received a missed call from a blocked number this later turns out to be the police, they left no message.
14th June My parents came to drop off a new car for me (little polo) for me to use while the cabby is getting fixed and noticed that the mk1 was not on the drive. My neighbour informed them the police have left a card and that the car has been took away. Mum rings 101, and is told someone will call her back (all calls are logged) No one returns her calls over the weekend and she calls back monday morning (17th) to find out more,
I return from holiday on the 17th, and call the police myself with the details on the calling cards left through my letter box on the 13th and 17th. No further missed calls than the ones at 3:50am on my mobile while i was in france from a blocked number.
After attempt number 3 on the 17th my dad gets through to someone (after refusing to wait for someone to call back) and an Police woman is sent out to see me. She has apologised that this has taken so long, but because i was out of the country and unobtainable it's taken longer. She explained that the car was recovered and taken to a Scenes of Crime bay. She could not tell me where this was as the notes are shady on this case.
The car couldn't be left unsecured on my driveway without my permission. If they had left me a voicemail i could have told them to push the car on the drive and got my brother to go and take the wheels off it so it can't go anywhere. So they had to recover the car.
As of the 17th at 16:30 the SOCO team had not been requested to visit the car. (i think this is unacceptable)
as i'm now facing a bill of atleast £500 up to now for a car that has been stored, which is not economically viable.
My neighbour said the car had a lot of wires hanging from the dash, the police can't tell me what damage there is to the car as there report is missing the information, it would appear they've rolled it off the drive and unsuccessfully tried to start it so gave up and left. but unfortunately left it as an obstruction of the highway which is why it's been recovered and stored.
What can i do? Where do i stand? How is this fair?
Gutted beyond belief. Just put £100 of tyres on it and some pretty Rial wheels.
we find out this morning the total cost of recovery. The police woman apologised for the balls up their end, and said we have to pay the costs to get the car back and then dispute them, which means there's the chance we have to pay over the odds.
I have contents and buildings on my house, does this cover non running vehicles being stolen from your driveway? I also had holiday insurance, is there anything i can use to ease the cost? I don't want to let them make the mk1 into a cube!
I don't need this when i've got back from my holiday. :(
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han check if you have legal cover on your house insurance, If you do use it and get some proper advice.
but I do think you will need to pay and then try and reclaim the ££
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Saw this on instagram, gutted :cry:
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FYI:
https://www.durham.police.uk/Information-and-advice/Know-the-law/Pages/Recovered-Vehicles.aspx
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Taked from a PDF from Warwickshire Police website.
STOLEN VEHICLE RECOVERY PROCEDURE
What are the facts surrounding stolen vehicle recovery? My vehicle is missing and I think it has been stolen. What should I do?
Telephone your local police station or Warwickshire Police Headquarters on 01926 415000.
DO NOT CALL 999 unless you actually see an unauthorised person using your vehicle.
What will happen when I report an apparent theft of my vehicle?
Warwickshire Police will do all that they can to get it back for you. As soon as we have found it, we will make arrangements for our contracted recovery operator to remove for safekeeping.
Why will the police remove my vehicle when they find it?
If your vehicle is not removed immediately, it may be re-stolen and the police have a duty of care to the public as well as to the owner of the vehicle.
It may be used to help commit some other crime; indeed it may already have been used in crime.
Thieves often set fire to vehicles they have stolen. The Fire Service has to respond to these vehicle fires because there might be someone in the vehicle. Other members of the public might also be caught in the fire or the fire might spread. A fire tender dealing with such a fire may be diverted from a more serious fire. The burnt-out wreck of a vehicle remains a public nuisance and danger.
The vehicle may have been damaged, even if it does not appear damaged. Anyone driving it may be a danger to himself and to others.
The vehicle may have been left in a dangerous or obstructing position where injury to children or other members of the public is a possibility.
Safe removal means that the police may subject the vehicle to a forensic examination if beneficial to help catch the thief.
Police Recovery Operatives enable continuance of evidence where applicable.
What powers do the police have to remove stolen vehicles from where they find them?
Section 99 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 authorises the police to remove vehicles that are illegally, dangerously or obstructively parked or abandoned or broken down, whether or not they have been stolen.
Can anyone else remove vehicles?
Traffic wardens and Community Support Officers have the same power as the police; persons accredited under the Police Reform Act 2002 have the power if their accreditation specifically gives it to them. The local authority has a duty to remove abandoned vehicles that are not of interest to the police.
Why, once they have found my stolen vehicle, will the police not allow me to make my own arrangements for its recovery?
Police officers who discover a stolen vehicle will normally try to stay with it until it is recovered. This prevents it from being stolen again or vandalised or used for other criminal purposes or being a danger. Officers do, however, have other duties and may be needed urgently elsewhere; they cannot stay with the vehicle indefinitely. Owners are not always immediately available and may not be able or willing to attend at once.
The vehicle may not be safe just to drive/ride away. Offenders often use stolen vehicles very dangerously, causing damage to the vehicle, which is not always immediately apparent, especially when it affects the wheels, tyres, suspension or steering. These need to be examined expertly before the vehicle is used again. Damage to the steering lock is
also potentially extremely dangerous whether the vehicle is being driven, ridden or given a conventional tow. It is a serious offence to drive a vehicle when it is in a dangerous condition.
Police contracted operators have to meet specified standards as to their speed of attendance, provision of appropriate equipment, training and expertise. Membership of a breakdown club may not be able to provide a guaranteed speed of service and safe removal.
Will I have to pay if the police recover my stolen vehicle and if so, how much?
There are statutory fees that you are legally required to pay. They
are decided by the Home Office in the form of statutory regulations made under section 102(2)(b) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.
The fees are published under The Removal, Storage, and Disposal of Vehicles (Prescribed Sums and Charges) Regulations 2008, The Police (Retention and Disposal of Motor Vehicles)(Amendment) Regulations
2008 and The Road Traffic Act 1988 (Retention and Disposal of Seized Motor Vehicles)(Amendment) Regulations 2008.
The storage period begins at noon on the first day after your vehicle's removal on which thestorage location is open before noon for your vehicle to be collected (so, if your vehicle is removed on a Saturday but the recovery operator's premises are not open for you to collect your vehicle until the Monday, the period will begin at noon on the Monday). No VAT is payable on these fees.
Whom do I have to pay?
The fees are due to the Warwickshire Police Recovery Operative that is acting as our agent.
How much profit do the police make out of the recovery scheme?
None: the fees are intended only to meet the costs of removal and storage.
How soon will I know that the police have recovered my stolen vehicle?
The recovery operator, acting as agents for the Chief Constable, will send you a 7-Day Statutory Disposal Notice by way of Recorded delivery. This is a legal requirement and states what you have to do in order to recover your vehicle.
Will my insurance always cover the costs I have to meet and will any claim affect my no claims discount?
That depends on the particular insurance policy you have chosen, please check with your insurer.
Can the recovery operator charge more than the statutory fees?
Under section 101 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1988, the police must release any vehicle they have removed on payment of the prescribed fees.
If payment of the fees is covered by your insurance, your insurer may agree to pay more if the removal was particularly difficult or involved specialist equipment.
Do I have to pay for my vehicle to be recovered even if the police recover it solely as evidence?
The statutory storage charges apply from when a vehicle was removed on police instructions and taken into storage until the owner collects it or the police dispose of it. This includes the period when the police are keeping the vehicle for forensic tests.
Whilst the vehicle remains in police custody, the statutory charges apply. If the police use their powers
to recover your vehicle because it is illegally, dangerously or obstructively parked or abandoned or broken down, you will have to pay.
What happens if I do not contact the recovery operator?
If the police use their powers to recover a vehicle and there is no contact from its owner or last known keeper within seven days of his being notified of its recovery, Regulation 14 of the Removal and Disposal of Vehicles Regulations 1986 entitles the police to dispose of a vehicle 7 days after serving notice on the owner. It is the owner’s responsibility to collect the vehicle in this time.
This can be by sale or by scrapping it. Any profit from the sale, after recovery and disposal costs have been offset, is payable to the owner if claimed within a year. A full audit trail for each vehicle recovered is maintained.
I do not want to reclaim my vehicle; do I still have to pay?
If the police used their powers under the Road Traffic Regulation Act to remove your vehicle they are entitled to recover the statutory fees.
If you do not reclaim your vehicle, you may lose your claim to its load, that is any items you had in it, on it, or attached to it. The only items from the load that you can always have back, without payment, are the "essentials of life". These are:
• All medicines and medical equipment
• Financial items such as cash, credit cards, cheque books, pension or benefit books
• Keys, such as house or shop keys
• Immediately required outer clothing such as a raincoat or jumper
High value items, which you may have had in your vehicle, are not
included.
How can I prevent my vehicle being stolen? Are the measures I might take worth the cost?
Only you can decide on questions of cost. You may want to consider, however, the cost and inconvenience of having to replace your vehicle and perhaps have it repaired, or the removal and storage costs you may have to pay, or the contents of your vehicle that you might lose too. These might be of value for different reasons, eg expensive goods, business documents, work tools, educational course work, items of sentimental worth.
Advice on measures to reduce theft of and from vehicles is given on the
Home Office's website.
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Here's the Legislation on charges if anyone's interested.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/2095/contents/made
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This is an internal policy guide from West Yorkshire Police:
Policy summary
Vehicle Recovery Scheme
This policy outlines the Force’s procedure for handling requests for the recovery or removal of abandoned, stolen, burnt-out or seized
vehicles.
Aims The aims of the policy are to explain:
• how to request recovery of a vehicle;
• how to deal with property in a vehicle; and
• the procedure for release of a vehicle.
Scope All officers and police staff.
Compliance Before arranging the removal of any vehicle, be certain that you have a legal power to do so.
Police Reform Act 2002 (Section 59 and 60);
The Road Traffic Act 1988 (Retention and Disposal of Seized Motor
Vehicles) Regulation 2005;
Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984
Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984
empowers the police to move, cause to be moved or arrange for the removal of vehicles in various circumstances.
Other related legislation includes:
• Common Law powers of seizure;
• Police (Property) Act 1897;
• Transport Act 1968;
• Police (Disposal of Property) Regulations 1975;
• Road Traffic Act 1988 section 165; and
• Removal, Storage and Disposal of Vehicles Regulations 1993
Chapter 1 Definitions
Introduction This policy uses the following terminology:
Recovery operator - which means:
Individual garages that operate under the control of WYP.
Independent Recovery Agent - which means:
Independent garages who are not affiliated to WYP, and do not form part of this Vehicle Recovery Service.
Chapter 2 Principles
Vehicle recovery system
From the 1st February 2012, all requests for vehicles to be recovered will be made direct by West Yorkshire Police via an interface from STORM to the Elvis system.
These requests must be arranged through the:
• Control Room (DCR); or
• Force Control (FC)(for Roads Policing requests).
It will be the responsibility of the DCR or FC (RPU) to use the recovery operator allocated to the division where the vehicle is been requested for recovery.
There are dedicated POLICE USE ONLY telephone contact numbers, for all the recovery operators.
Recovery operators
West Yorkshire Police has appointed 6 recovery operators to covering the 9 divisional areas which are:
Operator Location Contact details
AA – K D Bros Leeds 01132 127953
BA - Bridge Garage (Knottingley) Knottingley 01924 273368 option 4
CA – Bridge Garage (Stourton) Leeds 01924 273368 option 4
DA - Bridge Garage (Ossett) Ossett 01924 273368 option 4
EAD - David Blockley & Son Bradford 01132 853015
EAH – Unit One Recovery Huddersfield 01484 542244
FA – Stoneywood Motors (Sowerby Bridge) Halifax 01422 839831
GA – Stoneywood Motors (Bradford) Bradford 01422 839831
HA - Macadams Keighley 0843 506 0047
Response times
Agreed response times are:
Time Response
during normal office hours 30 to 45 minutes; or
outside office hours 45 minutes
Complaints The senior vehicle recovery unit manager should be notified as soon as possible, if there are any complaints about the actions of a
'Recovery Operator'.
Contact with the Vehicle Recovery Unit can be made by:
• email to the Vehicle Recovery Mailbox; or
• fax on extension 25498 (01924 294998).
Location of stored vehicles
Recovered vehicles must be taken to, and will be stored at, the premises of the recovery operator who conducts the removal. Only in exceptional circumstances, and with the authority of an inspector, should seized vehicles be taken to police premises, (divisions will be charged for these recoveries).
It is the responsibility of the vehicle owner to pay the prescribed fees for the removal and storage of their vehicle. However, where a vehicle is seized for evidential purposes under PACE Section 19, there are circumstances where the Police may pay.
For further guidance, please see ‘Vehicles seized for evidential purposes’.
Inspector's authority
The duty inspector’s authority is required when the:
• vehicle is being seized for evidential purposes;
• driver/owner details are unknown/cannot be ascertained; and
• vehicle is causing an obstruction or is likely to cause danger to other road users (apparently abandoned vehicle).
The decision, reasons and identity of the inspector must be endorsed on the Storm log.
Employee undertaking
Police personnel must not:
• contact recovery operators or independent recovery agents direct to arrange a recovery;
• tell members of the public, or recovery operators, that the police will pay for recovery;
• make recommendations to members of the public about the suitability of independent recovery agents; or
• drive vehicles to or on behalf of recovery operators.
Chapter 3 Vehicle removal
Circumstances requiring police removal
Any vehicle which is broken down or parked on a road in such a position, condition or circumstances as to:
• cause a genuine obstruction; or
• likely to cause an immediate danger to other road users, should be removed or caused to be removed by the police.
An inspector’s authority is required where the vehicle is to be removed in these circumstances.
Abandoned vehicles
Abandoned elsewhere than on a public road
The responsibility for removing a vehicle, which has been abandoned elsewhere than on a public road or highway, rests with the landowner or local Authority.
Only in cases where a vehicle presents an immediate danger or genuine obstruction will the police arrange removal, via the DCR/FC (RPU) and the Storm Log.
Road Traffic offences
In the case of abandoned vehicles, the following offences should be considered:
Cause unnecessary obstruction by motor vehicle / trailer
Contrary to Regulation 103 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, Section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988;
Cause motor vehicle to be left in a dangerous position
Contrary to Section 22 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988; and
Wilful obstruction of a highway - motor vehicle
Contrary to Section 137(1) of the Highways Act 1980.
Stolen vehicle
Introduction When a stolen vehicle is found, the police may remove the vehicle at the owner’s expense for the following reasons:
• to safeguard public safety;
• to safeguard the vehicle; or
• for examination or identification purposes.
When a vehicle is retained in these circumstances, the owner or their insurer is responsible for the recovery charge.
Note: West Yorkshire Police will pay the storage charges incurred up to completion of the examination by a vehicle examiner when vehicles have been recovered for this purpose.
Motorways and A1 Trunk road
Introduction The Highways Agency has general responsibility for the removal of
any broken down or abandoned vehicle from the motorway network. A traffic patrol must attend and deal with any vehicle found in such circumstances.
The Motorway Unit will deal with an incident where:
• there is injury; or
• any type of criminality is suspected.
Stationary vehicles
Any vehicle, whether attended or unattended, found stationary on the carriageway of a motorway must be removed to the hard shoulder as soon as possible. After being removed to the hard shoulder, and especially during the hours of darkness, a traffic patrol from the Highways Agency or the Motorway Unit will ensure that the vehicle is adequately protected.
Requests for recovery made by members of the public using the roadside emergency telephones are not covered in this policy procedure.
Burnt out vehicles
Introduction The police do not automatically have a legal duty to deal with burnt out vehicles. Such a duty would only arise if an officer took physical steps to take control of a vehicle, and by doing so created an additional risk.
For example:
• by opening the doors;
• smashing the windows; or
• moving the vehicle.
Burnt out vehicle procedure
However, burnt out vehicles are particularly dangerous, due to the chemical changes that occur when a vehicle burns. This potential problem must be considered when making a decision whether to recover the vehicle.
The authority of an inspector is not required for the removal of such vehicles.
Note: While recovery operators have agreed a response time of 30 to
45 minutes, recovery of a burnt out vehicle may be delayed if it is not accessible to the public and it is necessary for the recovery to take place in daylight.
Chapter 4 Vehicle crime
Introduction All reported stolen vehicles if found, apparently abandoned, will be recovered by West Yorkshire Police to a place of safety and the cost will be borne by the owner or their insurers. Owners reporting their vehicle stolen must not be offered the option of recovering the vehicle themselves if it is found abandoned.
This is to prevent the found vehicle being further:
• used in crime;
• re-stolen;
• subject to vandalism; or
• becoming a danger to the public.
The recovery also provides an opportunity for us to forensically examine the recovered vehicles and increase detection rates.
Officers must be aware that this Policy Guidance relates only to the recovery of vehicles which have been stolen AND then abandoned.
Note: If an owner locates their own vehicle, or is present at the time of recovery, we may ask their consent to recover it for examination and, unless this can take place on their own premises, there will still be a recovery/storage charge to pay by the owner or their insurer.
Vehicles seized for evidential purposes
Introduction Vehicles that are seized by the police for evidential purposes should be stored at the premises of one of the Force’s authorised vehicle recovery operators.
Unless the keys to the vehicles are required for evidential purposes, they must remain with the vehicle when it is recovered.
Note: Vehicles must not be seized or retained as a way of punishing offenders by depriving them of the use of their vehicle.
Authorisation for recovery
ALL requests for the recovery of vehicles that are subject of a crime or incident MUST be authorised by the duty inspector.
Exceptions: The exception to the above rule is in cases of fatal or potential fatal collisions, where the authority for recovery remains with the SIO.
Chapter 5 Dealing with property in the vehicle
Introduction If the owner/driver of the vehicle are arrested, security of the vehicle and property within the vehicle is the responsibility of West Yorkshire Police.
In such cases, the arresting officer is advised to check the vehicle and consider the safe keeping of any valuable items. Any property retained for safe keeping should be entered on the appropriate property management system and cross referenced with the detainee’s custody record.
A receipt should be issued and vehicle search record completed where appropriate.
Note: Do not use force to enter the vehicle.
Duty of recovery operator
The recovery operator will ensure the safe keeping of any property contained in any vehicle which they recover or remove.
Note: If a vehicle is seized for examination, the keys should remain with the vehicle, unless they are required for evidential purposes.
Chapter 6 Disposal of vehicles
Introduction Vehicles will be disposed of under the terms of the current contract between West Yorkshire Police and each Recovery operator.
Where the owner cannot be identified, the vehicle will be disposed of
in accordance with the Police (Disposal of Property) Regulations 1975 or The Removal, Storage and Disposal of Vehicles Regulations 2008 as soon as possible to defray costs incurred for its recovery and storage.
Chapter 7 Disputed ownership
Introduction If there is dispute or doubt over the ownership of a vehicle in police possession, and:
• retention is likely to result in storage difficulties or depreciation;
• the trial court has not made an Order for restitution or disposal; and
• the property has come into possession of the police during an investigation into a suspected offence,
a full report of the circumstances must be submitted to the Force
Solicitor.
Linked policies
Other related policies include:
• Property - Property handling storage, retention and disposal; and
• Vehicle recovery scheme - Vehicles seized for evidence purposes.
Admin Last reviewed: January 2012
Scheduled for review: January 2015
To summarize Han, you'll have to pay to get the Cabby back. But the whole storage fee or part of it?
There is a proviso where the Police have a statutory obligation to cover the costs if a vehicle is recovered under PACE for the gathering of evidence,and you should get them to deduct their storage fee from the total. [IN RED ABOVE]
But they could in all cases say that they recovered the vehicle for any other number of reasons where you will have to pay, eg. causing an obstruction, prevent further damage, theft..as outlined above posts, and make you pay the whole fee.
Worth a try.
HTH
Jonathan.
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Thanks guys!
Yeah totally poopers! :angry:
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This country really sucks :rolleyes: