GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: mikeorchard on 21 April 2013, 20:25
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Hi there,
Recently bought a 1992 Golf GL 1.8 mk3.
Although it runs fine, I think it needs a coolant flush and changing to G12++ (the expansion tank is almost brown and I can't even see what the level is), I've searched and read several threads on here on how to do it:
1. Undo bottom radiator hose - drain out into container.
2. Redo hose and fill with water + cleaner (any recommendations?).
3. Engine on, heater on, rev to 2-3k? To get it to circulate I presume?
4. Drain again.
5. Repeat with just water until it drains clear.
6. Fill with 50% G12++ and 50% water (Distilled? De-ionised? or just plain old hard tap water?)
7. Engine on, heater on, rev to 2-3k?
8. Massage hoses until the level in the expansion tank doesn't change and top up.
Done? I was wondering how easy this actually was, do I need to jack the car up at all? Is it worth buying a new expansion tank or can I remove the current one and clean it out?
My other question was whether the thermostat needs replacing, which I presume should be done when I'm changing the coolant? I took it on the motorway the other day and it hovered around 70, has never reached 90 yet. With the heater on hot, it only ever gets warm.
On ECP, CP4L, there are two thermostats listed for my reg and I'm wondering which one I need and if I need anything else to replace it? Where actually is it?
Haha, I'm a bit clueless. I would have just taken it to the VW specialist near me but I figure I will get fleeced.
Also, the electric door mirrors don't move. I had a look in the wiring loom in the rubber tube connecting to the door and there was one broken wire but I'm not sure how I go about replacing it? Probably not even worth it tbh.
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I reccomend forte bio degreser as for the bottom hose u may need to jack it up depending on if the spring clip is under facing the floor or above you dont rev the car after refiling as it can build up air just let it idle till hot then turn heater on and rev till u feel hot air im not to sure about thermostat but if its were my 2.0 8v is its not gona be easy you have to unbolt the pas pump ur thermostat is partially open which is cooling the engine
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replacing coolant is simple, your thought on how to do it are pretty much correct.
would also remove the hose on the side of the water pump, above the thermostat so that you get the last bit out that otherwise wouldn't.
then you need to decide what to do to change the thermostat, you have two choices.... (yes, yours has had it)
1) remove alternator, then alternator mount, water pump, then take flange off and replace thermostat and o-ring. no need to jack the car up.... but watch that coolant does not run onto the cambelt.
ORR:
2) undo p/s pump (don't disconnect hydraulic line), this will allow access to the thermostat housing and you can get it off, you will need to jack it up for this most likely, put an axle stand under the front cross member to secure it....
btw you don't have to put the heater to hot in a mk3.... the matrix is always in the flow path.... (unlike in a Ford KA for example where you have a valve before the matrix)
no need generally to replace the expansion tank cap, unless you still got a black one (they are not brilliant! and 92 model is very likely to still have that), then buy a blue one...
you can clean expansion tank, just take it out, plug up the holes... nick a few dental cleaner pills from gran and put them in there with hot water, scrub with a toothbrush the flush.... OR pick up one from ebay if you're that bothered.
thermostat you need is 87 degrees version. the lower one is for some of the smaller engines or vr6.
if you got a choice go for a "behr" make, they are the best around. Had a quick look on euro car parts... one of them is with seal, one without. buy the one with the seal - the original one from 92 might not seal anymore and you don't wanna redo whole procedure because of a fecking o-ring ;)
ECP don't make it easy. will have a quick check which i put in my 2.0 8v... thats the same as for 1.8. => either should work... or GSF part no. 176VG0070
for flushing, undo both hoses on heater matrix.... garden hose with gardena/hozelock connector and flush it through... same for radiator.... then you can just buy a cooling system cleaner from ebay... hafords, ecp, gsf....
when you've flushed the system sufficiently replace with 50% g12++ and 50% water (tap's fine unless you're in an area with very hard water, then mix DI or distilled with tap).
door mirror thing, which colour is the wire? don't know by hard anymore which is which but can check.
i used two inline crimp connectors and a short piece of wire (same dia) and just cut wire and crimped it all up.....
btw, where are you from. if you're local to me can give you a hand.
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replacing coolant is simple, your thought on how to do it are pretty much correct.
would also remove the hose on the side of the water pump, above the thermostat so that you get the last bit out that otherwise wouldn't.
then you need to decide what to do to change the thermostat, you have two choices.... (yes, yours has had it)
1) remove alternator, then alternator mount, water pump, then take flange off and replace thermostat and o-ring. no need to jack the car up.... but watch that coolant does not run onto the cambelt.
ORR:
2) undo p/s pump (don't disconnect hydraulic line), this will allow access to the thermostat housing and you can get it off, you will need to jack it up for this most likely, put an axle stand under the front cross member to secure it....
btw you don't have to put the heater to hot in a mk3.... the matrix is always in the flow path.... (unlike in a Ford KA for example where you have a valve before the matrix)
no need generally to replace the expansion tank cap, unless you still got a black one (they are not brilliant! and 92 model is very likely to still have that), then buy a blue one...
you can clean expansion tank, just take it out, plug up the holes... nick a few dental cleaner pills from gran and put them in there with hot water, scrub with a toothbrush the flush.... OR pick up one from ebay if you're that bothered.
thermostat you need is 87 degrees version. the lower one is for some of the smaller engines or vr6.
if you got a choice go for a "behr" make, they are the best around. Had a quick look on euro car parts... one of them is with seal, one without. buy the one with the seal - the original one from 92 might not seal anymore and you don't wanna redo whole procedure because of a fecking o-ring ;)
ECP don't make it easy. will have a quick check which i put in my 2.0 8v... thats the same as for 1.8. => either should work... or GSF part no. 176VG0070
for flushing, undo both hoses on heater matrix.... garden hose with gardena/hozelock connector and flush it through... same for radiator.... then you can just buy a cooling system cleaner from ebay... hafords, ecp, gsf....
when you've flushed the system sufficiently replace with 50% g12++ and 50% water (tap's fine unless you're in an area with very hard water, then mix DI or distilled with tap).
door mirror thing, which colour is the wire? don't know by hard anymore which is which but can check.
i used two inline crimp connectors and a short piece of wire (same dia) and just cut wire and crimped it all up.....
btw, where are you from. if you're local to me can give you a hand.
Hi, thanks for the awesome reply!
The thermostat sounds like a pain to replace without jacking it up and I don't really have the space to do that, it's parked on the road outside my house. Will probably just replace the coolant and get the thermostat replaced when I can afford to get a garage to do it, although I may buy the parts myself so I know what's been replaced.
It needs a new windscreen before it's next MOT as well, so it all adds up. If it were a GTI, I'd be more inclined to spend money on it but it's only a stop gap really until I move down to university again in September, so I may get rid of it before then.
The wire that's broken is a grey one, but I can't find the other end from the door to the car. I'll nip out and have another look and take a pic.
I'm up in Merseyside/Warrington. :P
Thanks
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Here's some pics. Upon second thought, the liquid in the coolant expansion tank is definitely blue although hard to see as it's gone below the minimum mark. I've just topped it up with 500ml of water or so.
Coolant Expansion Tank:
(http://i.imgur.com/Y6lRqnY.jpg)
Door wire:
(http://i.imgur.com/piP7wl4.jpg)
Found the other end, it's the only broken one so I'm guessing that's it for the electric mirrors. Stripped the ends with a pair of scissors and then twiddled them together, mirrors working now.
Also noticed this plug dangling randomly near the engine? Any ideas?
(http://i.imgur.com/K3Lu4i8.jpg)
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If there is nothing in range to fit that plug to then dont worry. Its probably an option on a higher model.
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wire near oil filter is for oil temp sensor - only on models with mfa.. so dont worry if it just hangs there. most 1.8s don't have oil temp display...
thermostat.... change it now.. why waste the coolant and get a garage to do it? it's less than 10£ for the part... coolant will cost you 10-15£ easily plus 50£ for labour ;)
just take the alternator and water pump off and swap it then....
not much to it really, alternator comes off easy, loosen bolts
(http://imageshack.us/a/img818/9469/alt1l.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img694/340/alt2n.jpg)
push it down to release belt tension, take the belt off,
then take the bolts out, voila alternator comes off now.
then take 4 nuts off.... then the holder comes off.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img829/617/alt3k.jpg)
undo the hammerhead scew that fixes the lower cam belt cover to water pump
(http://imageshack.us/a/img560/8370/waterpumphammerheadscre.jpg)
water pump's 4 bolts, then its off (drain water first!!)....
then 2 more bolts and you got the thermostat out :)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img62/6583/waterpump.jpg)
put the new one into the water pump (only goes in one way), then put the o-ring, re-place flange, screws in.... done.
you can see how it goes together here:
(http://www.vagcat.com/p/B114/121100.png)
sounds more complicated then it is.... i've done it twice only and can swap a pump in 15 minutes easy. (thank vw for driving the water pump with ribbed belt on large 4 cylinders rather than cam belt!)
not a difficult job mate - and this way you don't have to jack the car up at all (unless it's crazy lowered and you can't get the bottom rad hose off).
warrington is a bit too far from me - live in malvern....
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Think I'm gonna have to do it myself afterall.
Drove home from work, turned the engine off, got out and heard a strange hissing sound coming from the red circled part.
(http://i.imgur.com/4KJAwS2.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/IPKg1Gv.jpg)
I've just topped up with water for now, only one more journey to work tomorrow. Ordered the thermostat and will nip to the VW dealers tomorrow for coolant so I can do it on Friday.
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The plastic sensor housing has probably cracked. Very cheap and easy to replace.
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The plastic sensor housing has probably cracked. Very cheap and easy to replace.
Is that the part I circled in red where the hoses attach? Where can I get a replacement? Can't see it on CP4L.
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volksbits.co.uk have them.... vw part number is 037121132E but this is no longer available in that shape so you need another one, hence will also need two o-rings 19.6x3.6 (part no N 90316802), 1x new for the coolant sensor (as old one is probably not going to seal 100%) and a blanking plug (part no 357121140) as the new flange has two holes to be back compatible with mk2 engines which has two separate coolant temp sensors whereas mk3 has dual-sensor in a single package...
flange: http://www.volksbits.co.uk/servlet/the-14474/Water-Flange-VW-Golf/Detail
o-ring and plug you'll find easy on ebay....
depending on state of the retention clip you might also want to get that twice, part no 032121142
you will need one for the blanking plug
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Is that not just this?
http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l/c/Volkswagen_Golf_1.8_1992/p/car-parts/car-cooling-parts-and-car-heating/cooling/thermostat-housings-gasket/?200440820&1&3a3b95646d6e6d6b3cb06b1dcb55433e0535b593&000575
Or this even?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/VENTO-FLANGE-OUTLET-037121132E-C473/dp/B009GI3SYC Which comes with blanking plugs, o rings and clips?
EDIT: Ordered that one. Hopefully it'll come Friday. What stage should I replace it? Whilst I've got the water pump and alternator out to change the thermostat? I'm guessing the hoses will be full of coolant?
Just need to get a washing up bowl or something that'll fit under the car. Is it 6L of coolant in the system?
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amazon one looks good
whilst you can change it easily without taking anything else off (well get igntion leads out the way) i would suggest to change at same time as the water pump as for that you will drain all coolant anyway (round about 6l).
however if you just do flange by itself you do get away with a partial bleed (prob less than 2l). undo clip that holds top rad hose on pull back until it is just still on... place container underneath and carefully pull hose off, but only a short distance away from flange so coolant comes out slowly.
flange is only held on with two M6 bolts (i think 20 long). easy peasy....
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Still waiting for the parts to come. :rolleyes:
Another niggle I've been trying to sort today instead is the door catch on the drivers door, the rubber has perished so the door doesn't close properly sometimes and doesn't open smoothly. Got a replacement off the bay a while ago. However, the two torx bolts holding it have had their heads completely worn down so I've been at with a cordless drill and a small a drillbit this afternoon so that I could then knock a screw extractor in and get them out, but so far no luck. Found a corded hammer drill in the shed though, so shall try that tomorrow. I could just leave it as it is but it's just one of those things that annoys me.
Was surprised at the cost of G13 too! £20 all in for two bottles at VW. Went to Skoda first to see if they'd be cheaper but they kept me waiting with no staff for 10 minutes as the reception man didn't know whether they even had it.
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So I've got the alternator off... and cut all my knuckles open in the process.
Now I can't get the bottom radiator hose off to drain it before I take the pump out. How do you undo these clips?
Also, I'm assuming I'll have to do undo all the hoses attached to the pump too?
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And I've cut one of my other knuckles open now trying to get the bolts off on the plate covering the pump. How do I get those off? There is hardly any clearance to get grip with a spanner.
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Right, everything is off and the coolant is drained... Except for those bloody hose clips. I'm gonna nip to B&Q now for some adjustable pliers as that's all I can think of to get them loose.
EDIT: Done and... one of the bolts holding the thermostat plastic housing bit has sheared off. I've attempted to remove it with a screw remover... no luck. Looks like I'll have to get a new water pump as there is no way I can see of getting it out.
Ordered for £29 so not too bad. Would have rather not though. Off to B&Q for the third time today for a new bolt.
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All done. Finally. Was much more difficult than I'd imagined, especially the hoses.
Quick question: At what temp does the fan come on?