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General => General discussion => Topic started by: bobbarley on 20 April 2013, 09:53
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The missus and I were having a chat, and we decided that we'd sell up on the Sony A200 and it's accessories and invest in a Canon instead. We could probably get about £250ish for the Sony and all it's bits and bobs. We'd rather make the switch now before investing is any expensive lenses and other equipment.
At that price range is there anything about made by Canon which is going to be an "upgrade" over a Sony A200?
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Second hand 40d/50d
What do you want to gain?
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Neither of us have been that happy with the Sony since we've had it to be honest. She always used Canon in the past and prefers them. Plus I have a few mates nearby with Canon so I can borrow their lenses and stuff :smiley:
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Depends on what you're after. 1100D as entry level for about £300.
Anything else and I'd go secondhand. Look for yesterday's models (ie not current) and you may find bargains.
eg 600D on egay for £300. Stretch a bit more and for £400, you'll get one with extras included.
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What's the problem with the Sony? What does it not-do that you would like it to?
Why did you buy a Sony if the wife had a preference for Canon?
What Sony kit do you have? IE what will you have to sell and what would you like to replace like-for-like ?
As a Sony user, I've contemplated moving to Canon too, but have been put off for a few reasons, one of which is cost.
Here's my kit and an estimate of how much it would cost to replace like for like:
14mp DSLR body with live view (cost me £200) - Canon 450D £250 or Canon 50D £400
Minolta 50mm f1.7 lens (cost £75) - Canon EF 50mm f1.8 £80
Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 (cost £130) - Canon fit version £200
Minolta 70-210mm f4 (cost £75) - Canon EF 70-200 USM IS f4 L £500
The big advantage with the Sony's are that it has image stabilisation built into the body, so you can use older/cheaper lenses and not lose out.
To be honest the Sony a200 isn't the best of Sony DSLRs, I noticed a huge improvement going from a Sony a100 (virtually the same as the 200) to the a350 (speed, low light, af, live view, menus, etc were all better).
Have you thought about comparing a newer Sony with a Canon equivalent?
Who shoots more? You or your wife? Have you tried a Canon or is it just here who prefers Canon?
With that sort of budget you'll definitely get more looking at second hand, I would say it's only worth doing if you're going to get something as an upgrade from the a200.
EG the a200 is 10mp and isn't fantastic in low light, the Canon equivalent is probably the 400D, so going for a 450D would be a step up, but a 450D will cost you at least £250 perhaps with a kit lens. Or you could get a 40D body for that money but they are only 10mp. And you'd still need to buy lenses.
Not trying to dissuade you but a) I would only swap to Canon if you go for an upgrade, b) if the Sony was definitely the problem and c) if you can spend a bit more than £300 and get something worthwhile.
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At the moment we've got the camera, the stock 18-70 kit lens, and an old Minolta 50mm 1.7 prime. So not a lot of gear really. Neither of us are impressed with the quality of the photos coming from the A200, as you've mentioned in low light it doesn't do a very good job. Blacks are very lacking. It's also annoying that when trying to get photos to do HDR the camera will only shoot one stop up and down automatically.
I bought the camera a few years ago (before the other half and I got together) without doing any research, just a Sony fanboy and the camera was within my price range. She used to use a Canon 500D, so you can imaging the Sony is a bit step down.
Seeing as we want a 10-22 wide angle lens, a new general purpose kit lens, then a zoom lens (200 to 300) of some description, it seems am opportune time to consider a new body as well.
Are any of the newer Sony's much better? If so, it could be an option to buy a better Sony and then replace the lenses one at a time. Do all of the Sony's have stabilisation built into the body as standard?
A friend suggested I get something like a 1000D body and 35mm prime lens. Then start to build up a collection as and when I have the money.
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At the moment we've got the camera, the stock 18-70 kit lens, and an old Minolta 50mm 1.7 prime. So not a lot of gear really. Neither of us are impressed with the quality of the photos coming from the A200, as you've mentioned in low light it doesn't do a very good job. Blacks are very lacking. It's also annoying that when trying to get photos to do HDR the camera will only shoot one stop up and down automatically.
The 18-70mm kit lens is a bit rubbish (mine sits on the shelf as I replaced it with the Sigma 18-50mm f2.8).
Sony ditched the 18-70mm kit lens, so all newer Sonys come with an 18-55mm.
The blacks are easily sorted either with a quick edit in Lightroom/Photoshop, or you can adjust the settings a bit on the camera menu under "Creative Style". You'd also find the colours (and blacks/contrast) will be better with better lenses.
As for bracketing you'll have to change camera for better options there.
I bought the camera a few years ago (before the other half and I got together) without doing any research, just a Sony fanboy and the camera was within my price range. She used to use a Canon 500D, so you can imaging the Sony is a bit step down.
Yup, the Canon 500D is better than the A200, not surprised she'd find it a lesser camera.
Seeing as we want a 10-22 wide angle lens, a new general purpose kit lens, then a zoom lens (200 to 300) of some description, it seems am opportune time to consider a new body as well.
If you're buying all new lenses, then you're talking about quite a bit of cash. If you look at Sigma and Tamron who make lenses for both Sony and Canon cameras, then the prices will be pretty much the same.
Sigma 10-20mm f4-5.6 - £370 (Sony fit (http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-sigma-10-20mm-f4-5-6-ex-dc-lens-sony-minolta-fit/p1011784) Canon fit (http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-sigma-10-20mm-f4-5-6-ex-dc-hsm-lens-canon-fit/p1007710)
Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 - £280 Sony fit (http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-tamron-17-50mm-f2-8-xr-di-ii-ld-asp-if-lens-sony-minolta-fit/p1013812) Canon fit (http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-tamron-17-50mm-f2-8-xr-di-ii-ld-asp-if-lens-canon-fit/p1013810)
Tamron 70-300mm - £280 Sony fit (http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-tamron-70-300mm-f4-5-6-sp-di-usd-lens-sony-fit/p1520738) Canon fit (http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-tamron-70-300mm-f4-5-6-sp-di-vc-usd-lens-canon-fit/p1520736)
So yes, if you're going to invest in all that, you want to make sure you buy it for the right camera.
The above will cost you £930 total, for either Sony or Canon. Then sell your A200, and spend either £300 on a Canon or a Sony.
If you buy a Canon, you can sell your 50mm prime for about £70 and buy a Canon 50mm with that cash.
Are any of the newer Sony's much better? If so, it could be an option to buy a better Sony and then replace the lenses one at a time. Do all of the Sony's have stabilisation built into the body as standard?
Yes all Sony's have stabilisation (Sony call it "Super SteadyShot").
Newer Sony's are better, but all the newest ones are SLTs, ie the mirror is translucent and doesn't flip up, meaning you lose 1 stop of light as it passes through to the sensor.
Slightly older Sony's are still proper SLRs, so you don't have that problem. You can get an Alpha 500 or even the semi-pro A700 for £300.
If you are looking at keeping with Sony but upgrading to a new one, look at the A57, A65 and A77 which are very good, despite the SLT technology.
If you were going to replace one lens at a time, I'd start with the kit lens and get either the Tamron 17-50 f2.8 above or the Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 or the Sigma 18-70mm f2.8-4 (if you need the longer end).
If your friends have Canon cameras, do any of them have decent lenses that you might want to borrow?
Borrowing is ok, but never as good as having your own.
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I just sold my 1000d, think that wouldn't be a big enough change to warrant it.
Maybe look for a 450d
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Thanks Dub, that's soem really good information!
Turns out the missus had a 400D, so even more of a drop :grin:
Would a 400D be reasonable? They're well priced on eBay!
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The 400D is 10mp and has the same basic ISO range as your Sony A200, so it wouldn't be an improvement.
You could aim for a Canon 450D so you at least get something a bit higher spec'd and then start building up your lens collection, then in a year, upgrade from the 450D to something newer like the 600D or 60D.
Or, you could buy a Canon 5D (Mark 1), which is 12mpixel, but full frame and much higher quality. You can get these for about £400
Have you seen the Camera spec comparison tool on dpreview.com?
Take a look at these (http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=sony_dslra230&products=sony_dslra550&products=sony_slta57&products=canon_eos1000d&products=canon_eos500d&sortDir=ascending).
Sony a230 (nearest spec to yours) vs Sony a550 vs Sony SLT a57 vs Canon 1000D vs Canon 500D.
As with a lot of things, best to try before you buy. Find a decent camera shop and try some out.
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What about 500D? We could squeeze our budget to pick one of them up.
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Remember you'll want some £££ for lenses.
I really want a 5d to sit beside my 7D.
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Remember you'll want some £££ for lenses.
I really want a 5d to sit beside my 7D.
I think my main problem is that I've used my mates 5D. Everything else by comparison seems rubbish :sad:
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Was it a mk1?
Crap screen, poor focusing (compared to today's cameras), problems with the mirror box etc but they still take amazing shots. I want a 17-40 as a mid range for the 7D then get a 5d body for ultra wide use.
Remember none of these cameras will make you a better photographer :afro:
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It was brand new, he paid £2.5k for it, so assuming it's the mk3?
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You've been totally spoilt by the 5D MKII!
Don't go 500D, go 550D if you're buying a 'cheap' consumer body - the internals are a lot more advanced than the 500D.
That said, I'd be tempted to go 50D if I was going where you're going.
As already suggested a 5D MKI would give you lush full-frame images.
Mifsuds always have a good range of second-user kit. Canon bodies here:
http://mifsuds.com/acatalog/Used-Canon-Digital-SLR-s.html
Well worth considering, because their warantees are bomb-proof. A friend bought a 40D from them, it failed, they shipped her a 50D to replace it, FOC.
Get something like a Tamron 17-50mm F2.8 lens for the body and work from there.
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Thanks DH! Ill check their website out for anything nice :)
Would lens be more expensive for a full frame camera?
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You'd have to buy EF lenses which do tend to more £££.
Try mbp photographic, second hand with warranty.
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Those prices on MBP are pretty good.
They've got some pretty cheap 450D bodies but you would need to add lenses.
Yes, full frame (EF) lenses are more expensive, but if you start with the Canon 50mm f1.8 (£80), that's an EF, so is fine on a full frame 5D, etc.
If you think you might go full frame at some point, you either start off buying EF lenses or accept that you'll have to replace them with more expensive lenses later.
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To be honest the whole EF/EF-S thing is a bit of a nonsense. I don't know why you'd EVER buy an EF lens, especially because if you get an EF-S lens with a good aperture it's just as dear as an EF.
Only lens I regret buying is the 10-22mm EF-S because I can't put it on the 5D2. That said, I've had a lot of great images from it prior to that. The 8-15mm wasn't out when I bought it, either. That's only a couple of hundred quid more, is L-series but is a fish-eye.
SO tempted to make an 8-15mm my next lens.
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To be honest the whole EF/EF-S thing is a bit of a nonsense. I don't know why you'd EVER buy an EF lens, especially because if you get an EF-S lens with a good aperture it's just as dear as an EF.
Only lens I regret buying is the 10-22mm EF-S because I can't put it on the 5D2. That said, I've had a lot of great images from it prior to that. The 8-15mm wasn't out when I bought it, either. That's only a couple of hundred quid more, is L-series but is a fish-eye.
SO tempted to make an 8-15mm my next lens.
Bearing this in mind, what lenses would you recommend for a Canon EF mount if you wanted say three lenses to cover most scenarios and on a reasonable budget?
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And have a look at real results. If you intend on post processing images some of the examples in Flickr can be useful. If you check the Exif data it'll tell you what lens, camera, and settings they used and also what processing program.
I rarely shoot in jpeg. Lazy but it helps to tweak on a shot by shot basis. Lens wise have a good look at the groups on Flickr and see what is possible and also check a load of reviews. I still went with my sigma 10-20mm over the Tamron as both had pros n cons but the sigma seemed more friendly to my needs. Been reasonably happy with the results so far.
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Canon 17-40 F4L £400
Canon 24-70 f2.8l or 24-105 f4L £850/550
Canon 70-200 F4L £400
Going on second hand prices. Is that reasonable enough ?!
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Yes, thanks! i am bidding on an ef 75-300 USM that is going quite cheap at the moment..any good?
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I think we're pretty keen on getting the 500D, we're both happy with the price, and quality of the images we've been from it.
Then something like this as a lens just to get us started, reviews say it's much better than the mk1 version.
http://www.parkcameras.com/18672/Canon-EF-S-18-55mm-f-3-5-5-6-IS-II-.html?referrer=CamPriceBust
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As a walk around lens try the Sigma 17-70mm 2.8. I have found that so much better than the standard 18-55mm Canon.
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Lot more money too :grin:
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The 18-55 should get you going for a while, I still have mine and haven't got around to replacing it yet.
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On the lenses front - what are you going to be mostly shooting?
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To be honest it varies a lot. I try to shoot a lot of my daughter, which is when my 50mm prime is my main lens. I really enjoy long exposure night time photography, and landscape photography as well. Plus like going to car racing days to take photos as well.
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Fast glass is a must. Honestly. A good walk around lens, and get a reasonable 17/18mm-50-70mm at f2.8
Should cover the shot of the little one and night time photography. That's my 2peneth
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Full frame realises the full potential of the 50mm focal length.
I have a very good friend who lectures in multimedia at UWE who nearly exclusively uses a 50mm F1.8 on his 5D2.
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I do love my 50mm prime. I'd definitely be looking to buy one for the Canon. Friend pointed out a nice 40mm which could be a nice alternative.
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I love my 50mm, but on a crop sensor, sometimes it's just not wide enough, particularly with the kids; you need to be able to zoom out wider when they are moving so much. Hence why I upgraded from the kit lens to a Sigma 18-50mm f2.8. The image quality isn't quite as good as the 50mm, and it doesn't go as low as the f1.7, but it's a decent lens.
I would second dTEA, but if you can only get one lens right now, get a prime, but if you can afford to, get a prime and a Sigma 18-50 (or 17-70) or Tamron 17-50 f2.8, skip the cheap kit lens stage completely.
Oh that new Canon 40mm f2.8 STM is meant to be quite nice, but costs a bit more than the 50mm f1.8.
Or, if you have the money, get the new Sigma 18-35mm f1.8. It looks great and the f1.8 will give you effectively the same depth of field and low light ability on a crop sensor as you would with an f2.8 on full frame.
DPReview link (http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sigma-18-35-1-8) (I have no idea how expensive this will be though)
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My story....
I started with a 450D 18-55mm mk1 IS and a 55-250mm IS kit from Argos.
I added the 10-22mm EF-S USM (fantastic lens, money well spent - bought in New York from B and H).
I then added the 17-55mm EF-S F/2.8L IS USM used, (this was a good lens although started the dreaded lens creep when looking down) - and it started to get dust inside it. Takes absolutely fantastic photos on the 450D. (Traded in the 18-55mm IS for £50 too).
I then went mental sold the 55-250mm on eBay and bought the 70-200mm F/2.8L IS USM mk2 in San Diego whilst on business, best money I have ever spent on a lens. Was on at an instant $200 dollar rebate paid just a hair over £1500 new. (thanks overtime). This was my demise really, it produced such great quality images I was ruined and wanted more.
I then made the decision that I wanted a 7D so I picked up a refurbished 7D on eBay from Canon themselves for £750 with 12 months warranty. Sold the 450D on eBay. So at this point I owned the 7D, 10-22, 17-55mm, 70-200mm. I then splashed out on a 100mm macro IS USM F/2.8L courtesy of some Jessops vouchers for birthday e.t.c.
I was never really impressed with a the IQ/ISO of the 7D and I actually thought the 450D was better. So after a year of owning it I decided full frame was the way forwards. So the 17-55, 10-22 all got sold on eBay and the 16-35mmL mk2 arrived and 24-70mmL mk1 arrived for the 7D. Used this for a bit longer before eventually selling the 7D and buying the 5D mk3. I suppose I have been a FLICKR member since June 2009 so it all started just before that.
So my advice, buy the best body you can afford and slowly buy the lens afterwards, but whatever you do make sure you choose wisely and buy lenses you intend to keep. Try and figure out in advance where you are going with photography i.e. should I spend money and buy EF to start with as I would like a Full Frame eventually or I'll never buy that ever so EF-S is good enough.
I have taken some of my best photos with the 450D and the cheapo lenses, but there are certainly many more keepers now that I have better kit.
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Might I suggest you watch these from DigitalRev:
Pro SLR & cheap lens vs Cheap SLR & pro lens. http://youtu.be/hk5IMmEDWH4 (http://youtu.be/hk5IMmEDWH4)
Canon 1100D vs second hand 40D: http://youtu.be/ujAwXVF_X-E (http://youtu.be/ujAwXVF_X-E)
Might help you decide about where to spend the money.
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Might I suggest you watch these from DigitalRev:
Pro SLR & cheap lens vs Cheap SLR & pro lens. http://youtu.be/hk5IMmEDWH4 (http://youtu.be/hk5IMmEDWH4)
Canon 1100D vs second hand 40D: http://youtu.be/ujAwXVF_X-E (http://youtu.be/ujAwXVF_X-E)
Might help you decide about where to spend the money.
If I interpret those videos....
Buy good glass...cheap body to start with.
Buy used semi-pro body for the same money as new cheaper body.
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Yes, in hindsight exactly what I'd do!