GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: Nino on 18 April 2013, 21:45
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Hey Guys, Need abit of advice please I think I may have just done something alittle wrong so bare with me :)
Today after I finished work I decided to follow Bav's guide,
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=113646.0
On bypassing the n249 in a hope that this would help my car hold boost better and help rid of my pesky 17705! :angry: as there is litrally nothing else I can change/do that I haven't already done, below are pictures of what I have done, if you guys could take alook just to make sure I didn't get something wrong? :)
After the pics there is a reason to this topic I promiss. :wink:
This is what I did to the back plate as per Bav's guide.
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1757/photo18kn.jpg)
As Bav's guide says, I fed the top hose from the "1 way valve" onto the inlet & then put the hose coming off the side of the n112 onto the metal tube that connects to the secondary air intake.
(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7261/photo19fm.jpg)
(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/5082/photo23k.jpg)
Next I changed the braded pipe that was on my fuel reg to a silicone one and fed my both T parts off it, 1 going to my Boost pod, and the other one to my DV (Forge 007p) then the other end of the pipe feeding into the other tube on my inlet.
(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7816/photo22zh.jpg)
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7684/photo20byt.jpg)
Removed the black reservoir that sits ontop of coil 4 and blocked up the two metal pipes with the bolts from it :)
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5715/photo25kr.jpg)
Then I put everything back together and Plugged the two electronic back on. one onto the n112 and the other to the n249 (even though there isn't anything plugged into it anymore)
(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8830/photo21cu.jpg)
Afterwards I took the car for a test drive and I was shocked by the difference, the car 100% pulls better and feels to hold boost a hell of alot smoother than before I really could not beleave the difference, however this is where my worrying comes as well as my questions.
Before I did this my DV (Forge 007p) would make a Tsssssssh sound as it is supposed to, however since doing this mod it now (as well as) making the Tsssssssh noise it is also making a Flutter noise, I must stress that my car is not mapped, and my DV has the standard spring, also the car is not loosing any power nor has any codes since I cleared my 17705 two days ago popped up.
My questions are:
- Is it normal for the DV to make a flutter noise as well as a Tsssssssh after doing this mod?
- Why must I reconnect the Electronic connector to the N249 if there is nothing plugged into it?
- Is it just doing this while the car learns the changes? as BaV's guide said the car needs to learn the change.
Sorry for the essay but I am worried now :undecided:
Many Thanks, awaiting your reply's,
Nino :)
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When I did the bypass it didn't affect the noise of my d/v. You need to keep them valves plugged in or solder a resistor in place to prevent a fault code from being thrown up.
As Rhyso said in a recent thread, the 17705 fault can sometimes be a software issue that can only be resolved my mapping in a software patch.
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Thanks for your reply Dom, would you say I need to be alarmed by the flutter? :undecided:
Edit: and is everything I did correct?
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Btw this is the noise im getting. (Not my car btw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_NB935OPMY
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i dont understand why it would say that as you have done everything as per the guide :undecided:
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Have a flick through this:
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/123466-dv-flutter-after-n249-bypass.html (http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/123466-dv-flutter-after-n249-bypass.html)
And this:
http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/478695/3292543.aspx (http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/478695/3292543.aspx)
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Thanks Dom, already read them, seems ive ether got a faulty DV (highly unlikely) or the sound is coming from my Cone? again highly doubtful I think I might have to reverse this, unless it is because I have fed too much off the FPR? :huh:
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yeh i would change your T for the boost gauge up near the DV, also that flutter noise, im wondering if its because theres so much more pressure being shunted that the DV normal spring isnt working as it should? maybe the next spring up? :undecided:
i recon giving Rtech a call wont be amiss either tbh with you, they may know the answer straight up as they deal with this all the time surely?
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DV sounded different after I bypassed it, sounded a lot sharper and quicker but no fluttering.
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Oh god what have I done :( i need this car to run as its my daily Im worried I shouldn't drive it to work tomorrow now incase I break something....
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o dear mate lol, like said it could be nothing but too much pressure for the DV to take straight away, tried twisting the DV about yet? may be worth a shot?
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not yet i will drive it gentle to work tomorrow and hope shes ok.
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pointless reversing the DV
doesn't look right how you've bypassed it as from what I remember when doing it (and this was 3ish years ago) all the hoses under the cover near inlet manifold are no longer used only the valve plugged in to prevent fault codes and blanking plugs on the TIP.
this looks similar to how it looked after the guide I used
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/Ross20vSE/Ovni%20Leon/n249.jpg)
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Hmmmm
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What is your boost gauge doing?
Have you got the non return valve the right way round?
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Boost gauge is how it was before if anything its showing that boost is holding rather than falling off and yep dwfo the correct way round
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When you let off is the pressure dispersing straight away?
Any kinked pipes?
If you don't have you sai or anything like tht you don't need that metal plate
I removed that and all the hard lines that you said you capped. Tidies up the bay nicely!
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Sounds like turbo flutter.. I had this when my Bosch valve had failed, so because it wasnt dumping the air correctly it was causing the turbine in the turbo to stall which cAuses it to shudder making the fluttering noise, I then fitted my 007p with yellow spring and this rectified my issue
Eventually this issue will cause your turbine to fail and kill your turbo...
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Hmmmm maybe i should change my spring from green to yellow? I noticed today while driving to work under low pressure the DV sounded how it should and would only flutter if i boosted 5+ psi
All pipework is fine btw :undecided:
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change the spring then pal, as it looks like more boost is getting to the DV maybe uprating the spring would rectify this? strange how my standard DV didnt do this though
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(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8830/photo21cu.jpg)
Just noticed you have got the black pipe from the sai going to atmosphere but haven't got the black pipe going too the sai?
I would remove the sai altogether including pump and pipe work also remove the n112 and get rid of that plate and the hardlines then take the vacuume hose from the bottom of the inlet to the boost gauge and tee off from that with the NOn return valve to the Recirc valve and the. Go from them eliminate any possible kinks or blockages and less stuff to think about. :smiley:
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he hasnt had a remap though so removing the SAI could cause further issues at the mo. i was thinking of why all those valves were still there, theyre just taking up space so removing that would be a bonus, or perhaps get constructive lol
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Shouldn't need a remap to remove the sai it's only recirculating exhaust gasses.
Just use a blanking plate and a resistor.
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Im going to move the dv from the fpr and T it off the one way valve after alot of research and BaV saying in his topic about the problems it casued when he did a sai removal of a standard map
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Did he use resistors?
All the sai does is recirc exhaust has for 90 secs so after that it shouldn't really affect anything.
But I was just sayig it's a option to simplify the system
Can think if what else may e causing your problems :undecided:
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Yeah i know what you mean bud :) no he didnt use resistors but i dnt think the sai would have anything to dao with my problem would it?
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Not directly...I'm just suggesting it as it allows you to remove the pipe under the plate which hold the n112 and all the egr etc and simplify the system to allow you to see everything easier and eliminate any possibilities :smiley:
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Removing the SAI system does not require you to have a remap, as long as you use the correct resistors and a blanking plate it will not cause any problems.
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Well I find it strange how under low pressure e.g my boost going from -30 to +3 PSI it sounds exactly how is should. Soon as I give it abit of welly e.g 5+ PSI I hear the chatter as well as the Tsssssssh. Performance does not change, car drives and pulls no different and the car has not popped any codes "yet".
The only thing I can think of that makes any logical sence to me is after reading this....
http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/forums/showwiki.php?title=Turbo+compressor+stall
It says that under boost mt DV should be completely close and when I release my foot the pressure should be fed through the inlet? But it's not its going the other way cause the chatter sound because the turbo is stalling? So I'm guessing that the DV is not keeping itself closed on boost or, is not opening quick enough for the pressure to release down to the inlet. The only thing I can think that is causing this is that ether when I close my bonnet the pipe on top of my DV is bending restricting air from pushing down on the piston (highly doubt it as I had the same pipe on top before with no problems) or the spring in my DV is not reacting quick enough to spring the piston back up to release the pressure back into the inlet so the puts sure is going the only way it can back to the turbo which would make more sence because by doing my bypass I have effectively increased the amount of pressure to my DV so I would need a stronger spring to push the piston up before the air has chance to go the wrong way.
My other trail of thought was that because I have fed my boost gauge and DV from the FPR the amount of pressure in that line has been weakened e.g 100% of the pussure has been devided by 3 so in essence the pressure is weaker. So I plan to move the DV to the other line on the "one way valve" in a hope that is works. Or I could also try and get a yellow spring from somewhere or try my OEM DV and see if that helps?
What are your thoughts on this guys?
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firstly. the SAI doesnt do anything but help out with cold starts as i have just read and been told, secondly move the DV T for you gauge closer the to DV so you can eliminate any equalisation issues and 3rdly give the yellow spring a try and see how deep the rabbit hole really goes :wink:
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and get a forge actuator
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and get a forge actuator
All in good time not needed atm :)
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i know...im just planting the seed :grin:
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Do you know anyone with a forge d/v you can test on your car? Would be an easy/quick way to eliminate or confirm the d/v as being the issue.
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Nino,
I know you think that things are there for a reason, but seriously do the SAI delete and the N249 and N112 it'll really eliminate most of the problems that can cause the issue you seem to be having.
The car feels better now you said after doing the bypass, do the deletes and it'll feel better still..... and give you much more space in the engine bay
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I will delete them defo when i can ive been out there an hour and first i put my oem DV on, noise was quieter but still there, so next i checked my forge DV and all seemed fine. So i have moved the DV line now its now Teed off the one way valve and i have kept the boost gauge on the FPR made sure all my pipes where only as long as they needed to be and ensured i double zip tied every possible place that they connected.
Took her for a test drive and the flutter is there BUT no-where near as loud i fact its more of a tssssh now than a flutter at all and it does not always flutter example if i floor it over 4k it does not flutter at all now just tssssssh only flutters if i realease between 2.5-3k revs
I dnt think the problem is totally gone but it is better so i am hoping shes ok to drive now. :undecided: