GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: AAddict on 14 April 2013, 10:27
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Is it crazy to choose the GTD over the GTI when you only do 5-6000 miles per year? The payments are a decent bit lower on PCP along with road tax and possibly a little better on fuel, but the GTI will be a bit more fun with the petrol turbo. Just seems a little wrong when doing such a low mileage? Any thoughts?
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Well there's insurance as well. Some of our younger members might not be able to afford the insurance premiums on a GTI ?
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Yes it makes no sense. Diesels don't like low miles / short journeys either, where the car doesn't even warm up.
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I only do about 6k a year in my GTI so i've gone for another one, if cost is a concern for you then definately the GTD is a fantastic compromise but if you can afford the GTI and don't do lots of miles then yes i'd say buying the GTD is a little crazy! :lipsrsealed:
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Well there's insurance as well. Some of our younger members might not be able to afford the insurance premiums on a GTI ?
I wouldn't have thought there would be that much difference?
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Yes it makes no sense. Diesels don't like low miles / short journeys either, where the car doesn't even warm up.
You're right, that's a good point. I never thought about DPF issues etc. I realise MPG on short/cold journeys is no better in diesel than petrol.
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It's entirely up to you.
Personally I prefer the more relaxed drive of a diesel and the better fuel economy, even tho' with such a low mileage that doesn't really factor. On paper and round the track at anything above 8 tenths, the GTI will be faster, but on the road, the few meters the GTI will have pulled away, will be reeled in at the next set of lights.
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Well there's insurance as well. Some of our younger members might not be able to afford the insurance premiums on a GTI ?
I wouldn't have thought there would be that much difference?
My heart wants the GTI, but it's stretching my monthly budget the wrong side of comfortable. :huh:
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My heart wants the GTI, but it's stretching my monthly budget the wrong side of comfortable. :huh:
Why not wait a bit and save up then?
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It's entirely up to you.
Personally I prefer the more relaxed drive of a diesel and the better fuel economy, even tho' with such a low mileage that doesn't really factor. On paper and round the track at anything above 8 tenths, the GTI will be faster, but on the road, the few meters the GTI will have pulled away, will be reeled in at the next set of lights.
I'm not sure a hot hatch should feel relaxed. Speedwise I agree, on the road in general there isn't much difference, but the feel and the drive is very different.
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My heart wants the GTI, but it's stretching my monthly budget the wrong side of comfortable. :huh:
Why not wait a bit and save up then?
Because my trade in is worth the Maximum deposit on the PCP's for either car, I plan on using the full amount as I intend to keep/buy the car for 5-6 years. The £50 a month extra on the PCP payment may not sound loads, but it makes enough of a difference for me to question GTI/GTD if that makes sense.
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Well, I did the maths on annual running costs using the stated combined mileage. On 10,000 miles a year, which I rarely do (7,000 on average), taking into account lower tax and everything, the savings were about £400 a year at current rates and my insurance costs. OK, so that's a decent chunk of money, but it's not when you consider what you are losing in part-exchange and depreciation by getting the car in the first place.
Now, for a company car owner, the GTD is a more practical choice because the tax will be a lot lower. For a private buyer, I just don't see the logic. If a private buyer can afford to trade up to a car as expensive as the GTD, then surely they can afford to run a GTI?! I actually considered it due to the lower monthly payments, but I knew that I'd regret it, because what I really want is the GTI for its looks, its smooth power delivery and nimble handling.
I went with my heart, like it did last time, and I know I have made the right decision. For me, the GTI is refined enough to be an everyday car already. It's not about racing at the lights, or how fast you can overtake on the motorway. For me it's about having a connection with my car, and that's something I wouldn't get with the GTD, because I knew it's trying to be a GTI, but not quite getting there. For that same reason, I get why people like the GTD.
I plan on keeping mine for several years too, which is why I come back to depreciation. Once the 3 years are up and you own the car, suddenly you have all that spare money each month. After which, two monthly payments more than covers the increased annual running costs of the GTI over the GTD.
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Well, I did the maths on annual running costs using the stated combined mileage. On 10,000 miles a year, which I rarely do (7,000 on average), taking into account lower tax and everything, the savings were about £400 a year at current rates and my insurance costs. OK, so that's a decent chunk of money, but it's not when you consider what you are losing in part-exchange and depreciation by getting the car in the first place.
Now, for a company car owner, the GTD is a more practical choice because the tax will be a lot lower. For a private buyer, I just don't see the logic. If a private buyer can afford to trade up to a car as expensive as the GTD, then surely they can afford to run a GTI?! I actually considered it due to the lower monthly payments, but I knew that I'd regret it, because what I really want is the GTI for its looks, its smooth power delivery and nimble handling.
I went with my heart, like it did last time, and I know I have made the right decision. For me, the GTI is refined enough to be an everyday car already. It's not about racing at the lights, or how fast you can overtake on the motorway. For me it's about having a connection with my car, and that's something I wouldn't get with the GTD, because I knew it's trying to be a GTI, but not quite getting there. For that same reason, I get why people like the GTD.
I plan on keeping mine for several years too, which is why I come back to depreciation. Once the 3 years are up and you own the car, suddenly you have all that spare money each month. After which, two monthly payments more than covers the increased annual running costs of the GTI over the GTD.
Wise words indeed :rolleyes:, I'm pretty sure I need to either work out if I can afford the GTI or move onto something cheaper. My issue with some of the cheaper options is that I know I won't want to keep for longer than 3yrs.
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Well, I did the maths on annual running costs using the stated combined mileage.
If we all did the maths, nothing would justify buying a new car and we would all be driving round in 10 year old Polo's.
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Well, I did the maths on annual running costs using the stated combined mileage.
If we all did the maths, nothing would justify buying a new car and we would all be driving round in 10 year old Polo's.
Ain't that the truth, but you can't beat that smell :laugh:
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So true, but what we are doing here is comparing two very similarly priced, reasonavly expensive cars that don't actually have that much between them in pure running costs.
Yes we all have financial limits, and maybe for some, that £50 a month difference plus the £400 a year saving might be enough to sway it. Just ask yourself one question. If they only made a GTI, would you go for it? If you actually want a GTD, that's great. Sounds to me as though you would be compromising on what you want, and then you run the risk of not being happy with it, despite it still being a great car.
The is also the consideration that diesels are not really happy with short trips and low mileage in general.
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The is also the consideration that diesels are not really happy with short trips and low mileage in general.
Short trip yes, but how is low mileage an issue? My GT TDI 140 does around 4000 mile a year, but the vast majority of those miles are long motorway journeys.
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Fair enough on the low mileage as you are right, it could be 1000 miles a year on just two long journeys.
At the end of the day, there is more to car ownership than fuel, tax and insurance. As already said, if we all do the maths we'll never buy a new car, so it obviously comes down to what you can afford. To that end, I still maintain that if the decision to get a GTD over a GTI is based purely on economy, maybe you are in the wrong price bracket to start with, especially if your annual mileage is also really low.
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My heart wants the GTI, but it's stretching my monthly budget the wrong side of comfortable. ???
Why not wait a bit and save up then?
Because my trade in is worth the Maximum deposit on the PCP's for either car, I plan on using the full amount as I intend to keep/buy the car for 5-6 years. The £50 a month extra on the PCP payment may not sound loads, but it makes enough of a difference for me to question GTI/GTD if that makes sense.
If you want to keep the car for 5-6 why not consider finance? I'm not a huge fan of PCP at the best of times as unless you pay the balloon payment you'll never own the car. >:(
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Having spent a fair bit of time in both GTI and GTD mk6s there really isn't that much difference in performance between the two in day to day running as standard cars go.
If your low mileage involves a fair amount of A road driving and dual carriageways/motorways etc then the GTD is a very relaxing way to do the miles with that sporty edge and huge torque for when you're in the mood. But as said, if it's a lot of stop start driving then the Diesel isn't so happy.
The extra torque of the mk7 GTI should make it a bit more satisfying to drive than earlier GTIs anyway and possibly make it a bit more economical.
I'm pretty torn between a GTI and GTD myself despite doing a fairly low annual mileage (although it has been higher than normal the last six months) as nearly all my Golf driving is fast dual carriageways where torque is far more relevant than the wider power band of the GTI.
If nothing else the actual time spent stood in the cold and wet filling up with fuel should be less frequent in a GTD which is worth a fair bit in itself and makes the car 'feel' cheaper to run!!
For a GTI I think a manual gearbox is more satisfying but a GTD would work better with a DSG as that car needs a lot more gear changes in give and take driving. I can run round town in my current mk6 GTI and not have to change gear too much but in the GTDs I drive (plus regular use of Caddy vans with the 2.0 and 1.6 TDI engines) they're up and down the box all the time until you hit a bit of open road.
A GTD with a modified ECU is a real weapon in daily driving just using the torque and higher gearing to slingshot yourself around. :evil:
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You can compare the 2 for running costs on the VW site.
http://www.volkswagencomparison.co.uk/volkswagen/home?kee=501879
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You can compare the 2 for running costs on the VW site.
http://www.volkswagencomparison.co.uk/volkswagen/home?kee=501879
Did anyone notice anything interesting about the comparator when comparing GTD and GTI? I was very interested in the residual value. The final rental/guaranteed future value on my solutions paperwork for the GTD 5 door is £14406, meaning that it supposedly holds 55.6% of it's retailed value at 3 years (54.3% for the GTI). The comparator states a retained value of 46.08% and 42.76% for the GTD and GTI respectively. Unless there is a mistake on the comparator figures it would seem that the solutions final rental/guaranteed future value is artificially high to make the finance so attractive and when 3 years comes, there may be no collateral in the car to use towards your next VW if you don't pay it off. In that case it would make more sense to walk away when the final rental is due and start a fresh finance scheme with no contribution from the last car.
Is there anyone here that got appreciably more in "part-ex" on their MK6 GTD/GTI at 3 years old than their quoted final rental/guaranteed future value on their solutions finance?
If the figures are to be believed then a GTD is £900 a year (£75 a month) cheaper to run than a GTI between less fuel, lower road tax and higher residual values. If you take on board solutions guaranteed value instead of the comparator residual value then the GTD and GTI are approximately £1k a year cheaper to run than the comparator would suggest.
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There is no disputing the fact that a GTD is cheaper to run than a GTI, especially when you factor in the higher residual. How that residual affects you financially really depends on how you financed the car in the first place and what you intended to do after 3 years. Personally I'm paying mine off in 3 years so am saving up each month to cover that. On a GTD, with a lower monthly payment but higher residual, all that means is I'd need to save more each month to cover the higher final payment.
Interesting though how different numbers mean different things to different people depending on circumstance etc. :)
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Gryzor: My main point of interest was the fact that the comparator quotes significantly lower residuals for both the GTD and GTI compared with the final guaranteed value that Solutions gives. That could mean that some people buying at the end of solutions are paying out more than the car is actually worth at that point to own it.
Solutions is geared to encourage you to replace your car every 3 years and maybe that's a trade-off VW are prepared to make - getting you in on solutions vs "losing" out a little for those that walk away from the final rental if it is set artificially higher than the car's true 36 month old value.
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One thing is for sure, if you replace every 3 years, with current solutions figures, it would be crazy to order a 150TDI GT over a GTD - it is cheaper to finance the depreciation on a GTD than a GT via solutions. If you are looking to own for 5/6 years and pay off solutions after 3 then guaranteed future value at 3 years is pretty irrelevant for whatever you buy.
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One thing is for sure, if you replace every 3 years, with current solutions figures, it would be crazy to order a 150TDI GT over a GTD - it is cheaper to finance the depreciation on a GTD than a GT via solutions. If you are looking to own for 5/6 years and pay off solutions after 3 then guaranteed future value at 3 years is pretty irrelevant for whatever you buy.
Per your other post and this, I can't argue with that :)
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How does this post fit for people who buy for their cars for cash? Is it still 'crazy' to buy a GTD over a GTI as I just have? (This thread has placed many seeds of doubt into my head. Orders placed now - too late to change).
I guess most people on this forum are natural petrol heads and deep, deep down don't really rate oil burners. Is that a fair comment?
Be interested to hear your thoughts.
Gaz
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How does this post fit for people who buy for their cars for cash? Is it still 'crazy' to buy a GTD over a GTI as I just have? (This thread has placed many seeds of doubt into my head. Orders placed now - too late to change).
I guess most people on this forum are natural petrol heads and deep, deep down don't really rate oil burners. Is that a fair comment?
Be interested to hear your thoughts.
Gaz
I've owned about 20 cars ranging from the best hot hatches to the fastest diesels. The most fun cars to drive everyday in the real world are the fast diesels. That's why I've ordered a GTD. I'm coming from a 2012 Scirocco 2.0 TSI DSG and I think it's an unexciting and poor sounding engine
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ROO1, you know you probably won't get out of here alive with statements like that :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
(but i'm with you - currently drive a diesel Rocco which is huge amounts of fun).
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How does this post fit for people who buy for their cars for cash? Is it still 'crazy' to buy a GTD over a GTI as I just have? (This thread has placed many seeds of doubt into my head. Orders placed now - too late to change).
I guess most people on this forum are natural petrol heads and deep, deep down don't really rate oil burners. Is that a fair comment?
Be interested to hear your thoughts.
Gaz
I've owned about 20 cars ranging from the best hot hatches to the fastest diesels. The most fun cars to drive everyday in the real world are the fast diesels. That's why I've ordered a GTD. I'm coming from a 2012 Scirocco 2.0 TSI DSG and I think it's an unexciting and poor sounding engine
Be interested to know two things:
What do you mean by driving I the real world?
And what's wrong with the current Scirocco 2.0 TSI? (199 or 210)
Gaz
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How does this post fit for people who buy for their cars for cash? Is it still 'crazy' to buy a GTD over a GTI as I just have? (This thread has placed many seeds of doubt into my head. Orders placed now - too late to change).
I guess most people on this forum are natural petrol heads and deep, deep down don't really rate oil burners. Is that a fair comment?
Be interested to hear your thoughts.
Gaz
I'm one for paying cash too. I can't be doing with having to find monthly payments for anything other than utility bills.
I reckon that once you've handed over your debit card, the car is all yours. If by any chance after a few months you've decided that it's not the right car for you, you simply sell it. Granted you'll take a big hit, but all the money from the sale will be yours, back in your bank, ready to buy something else with. During that time, hopefully you'll have saved enough money to top it up, as you won't have been paying out each month on a finance arrangement.
As I said earlier in the thread, even with my low Golf mileage, I'd still have a GTD, and a DSG at that. That's just what I'd choose, but it doesn't mean it's right for everyone.
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How does this post fit for people who buy for their cars for cash? Is it still 'crazy' to buy a GTD over a GTI as I just have? (This thread has placed many seeds of doubt into my head. Orders placed now - too late to change).
I guess most people on this forum are natural petrol heads and deep, deep down don't really rate oil burners. Is that a fair comment?
Be interested to hear your thoughts.
Gaz
I've owned about 20 cars ranging from the best hot hatches to the fastest diesels. The most fun cars to drive everyday in the real world are the fast diesels. That's why I've ordered a GTD. I'm coming from a 2012 Scirocco 2.0 TSI DSG and I think it's an unexciting and poor sounding engine
I've got to agree with you. Been there and done the same. As cross country road cars go fast Diesels are right up there. And I've owned way more than 20 and nearly all of them have been petrols!! Unfortunately the Diesels I've had have been remapped and the fuel consumption on them hasn't been all that brilliant on some of them BUT I certainly had as much fun driving them as any of my fast petrols.
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A fast Diesel diven properly, with well timed gear changes to get the most out of the power band (which isn't so narrow since we went CR from PD) is the car i'd choose to drive. I do love having all that torque on tap and not getting raped at the pumps, cheaper insurance, noticeably higher residuals and cheaper road tax are all benefits too. On public roads (and driving reasonably lawfully) there isn't any real difference in what you can do with a GTI compared to a GTD (except from a standing start at a set of lights). In the past you couldn't have all the GTI looks and equipment without buying a GTI, now all that is missing is a red stripe (with a silver one in it's place). Diesels have caught up and because of all that torque there doesn't feel like 35PS between them.
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It's funny how people go on about the huge amount of torque in the diesel.
The MK7 GTI has the same torque output (350NM) as the MK6 GTD, I think the MK7 GTD has another 30NM
Also the GTI doesn't need as much torque to turn the driving wheels as the GTD, due to the gearing and it comes in 500rpm sooner.
I have driven the GTI/GTD back to back both in the MK5 and the MK6 and both times I went for the GTI.
The GTI just seems lighter and livlier, sounds so much better and was a lot more exciting to drive.
All of my driving is a/b roads so maybe this makes a difference.
I would say make sure you drive both cars back to back before ordering, my sister went from a 2.0TSI TT to a 170TDI TT and apart from the Quattro grip is regretting her choice, she didn't test drive the diesel before buying.
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I don't think we should get to hung on on is the GTI better than the GTD, is petrol better then Diesel, as these arguments have been done to death over many years. Different people have different expectations, wants and aspirations over their cars. Some prefer petrol, some diesel - who are we to tell them they are wrong !
I think Monkeyhanger hit the nail on the head though. Previous to the MK7, if you wanted the GTi looks (bumpers, side skirts etc) you either had to buy a GTi, or retro fit the parts at quite an expense. VW have now seen fit to produce both GTi and GTD models which are visually identical (bar exhaust pipe arrangement and red stripe on front bumper). Even the 19" alloy wheel options are the same. Now everyone can pick the car of their choice, which is exactly how it should be.
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I suppose that in the main for GTD drivers they don't consider the extra performance of a GTI over a GTD to be worth the extra cost in terms of fuelling and depreciation. The GTI people will think that it is worth the extra. We will always agree to disagree when it comes to diesel vs petrol even though the difference between the 2 is narrowing all the time.
I do feel that VW do hold back so as not to encroach on each model too much. If they'd incorporated the cylinder deactivation technology seen on the 1.4 140PS TSI to achieve around 55mpg combined with the 2.0TSI then they could've been in danger of killing off the GTD. Also, bi-turbo diesels are out there, putitng out GTI territory power, but i'm sure they don't want to step on the GTI's toes by releasing a GTD/R-TDI with Bi-turbo.
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Is there anyone here that got appreciably more in "part-ex" on their MK6 GTD/GTI at 3 years old than their quoted final rental/guaranteed future value on their solutions finance?
On my GT I got £2k more trade in than what my final balloon payment was but unfortunately this wasn't with VW but with Audi however I'll happily jump ship once the new MK7 GTD/GTI has been out and is established.
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I'm getting 17k for mine in sept, it'll be 3 and a half years old with approx 17~17.5k on the clock but i'm not getting any free gap or service. :cry: i'm happy with that though, the car cost approx £26500 new.
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I'm getting 17k for mine in sept, it'll be 3 and a half years old with approx 17~17.5k on the clock but i'm not getting any free gap or service. :cry: i'm happy with that though, the car cost approx £26500 new.
That's a bloody good price considering that I have just paid that for an 18 month old Passat Estate which was £27.5k when new.
I know it's not really comparing eggs with eggs, but it does show that some cars really do hold their money well.
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I'm getting 17k for mine in sept, it'll be 3 and a half years old with approx 17~17.5k on the clock but i'm not getting any free gap or service. :cry: i'm happy with that though, the car cost approx £26500 new.
That's a bloody good price considering that I have just paid that for an 18 month old Passat Estate which was £27.5k when new.
I know it's not really comparing eggs with eggs, but it does show that some cars really do hold their money well.
Thats what i thought tbh, i did ask about taking delivery sooner and if that would affect the trade in but he said no as he was giving me a very good trade in on what it's worth now to which i agreed.
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I'm getting 17k for mine in sept, it'll be 3 and a half years old with approx 17~17.5k on the clock but i'm not getting any free gap or service. :cry: i'm happy with that though, the car cost approx £26500 new.
That's a bloody good price considering that I have just paid that for an 18 month old Passat Estate which was £27.5k when new.
I know it's not really comparing eggs with eggs, but it does show that some cars really do hold their money well.
Thats what i thought tbh, i did ask about taking delivery sooner and if that would affect the trade in but he said no as he was giving me a very good trade in on what it's worth now to which i agreed.
Same here, dealer said px was fine in June or Sept
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I think the answer is not dependant on mileage. If I had of bought a GTI I would have been at least £9000 worse off in fuel in three years. That's nearly the upgrade money for a mk7, but I think its doing better in my offset mortgage at the moment.
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Quite right. Paying your mortgage off as soon as you can is a far better idea than buying a new car.
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I think the answer is not dependent on mileage.
I would say mileage is a big factor for most people.
I only do 12000 miles a year and if I had bought a GTD I would only have saved about £1000 on fuel over three years.
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I think the answer is not dependent on mileage.
I would say mileage is a big factor for most people.
I only do 12000 miles a year and if I had bought a GTD I would only have saved about £1000 on fuel over three years.
I think I actually meant is dependant on mileage otherwise my £9000 on fuel wouldn't make sense.