GolfGTIforum.co.uk

Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: Female_Golfer on 07 April 2013, 14:37

Title: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 07 April 2013, 14:37
Hello fellow Golfers.

I've had my mk4 for 6 months now and it has been great!!

When I first got it I was a little concerned about how long it took to get to 90C on the temperature dial. However I was reassured by a local VW specialist that this was quite normal. On short trips (under 4/5 miles) it would only get to 1/4 on the dial.

Then on Wednesday I noticed that after a mile or so I was half way on the dial and it stayed there for the rest of the journey through town averaging about 20mph. The same thing happened for every other journey after this, which seemed strange.

On Friday evening I took her on the motorway (I don't often drive on the motorway) and doing a steady 60mph I noticed the temperature dial going to 3/4 on the dial. I was on the motorway for about 5 miles and as soon as I came off on to normal roads travelling at 30/40 the dial went back to half way.

So yesterday I decided to go back on the motorway and it seems the faster I go the higher the temperature goes. Travelling at 70/80 the dial went in to the red and I pulled over. I pulled over and the coolant looked to be bubbling but there was no steam and the fans weren't on. I started her back up and the dial went up to half way. I continued to the next junction at 50 and then returned home.

I topped the coolant up and noticed the oil was only just on the dipstick so I added around a litre to get it back to where it should be. I've done 5/6k since its last service so I'm sure it could have used a little oil. My Dad said to check the radiator is getting warm which it is and there isn't any "white stuff" on the dipstick or oil cap. I think he was thinking the waterpump or headgasket could be failing.

Again this morning I was on a dual carriage way doing 60 in 5th so revving at 2k and it went to 3/4 on the temp dial, I pulled over and under the bonnet everything seemed normal! The engine was off for less than a minute and when I started her up again it was back to half way on the temp dial.

I've been on google for about an hour now trying to find similar issues without any joy.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Lynsey.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 07 April 2013, 14:37
Sorry for such a long post, hope it made sense.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Gti_Jamo on 07 April 2013, 14:45
Changing the green coolant temperature sensor would be my first call and relitively inexpensive. They have been known to give eratic readings when faulty and also have an effect on fuel consumption.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 07 April 2013, 14:49
Sorry for having no idea about these sort of things, but where abouts is that located?
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Rhyso on 07 April 2013, 14:57
Take it to a garage who can carry out a diagnostic on the car before spending your money on parts

Your problem could range from a failing water pump to a thermostat or temperature sender

Paying for a diagnostic check could save you a few quid in the long run  :wink:
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 07 April 2013, 15:01
Someone at work has got a VW fault code reader, I'll get him to plut it in tomorrow. If that doesn't help I think I will be taking it to a garage.

Although is this the temp sensor:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-GOLF-MK4-BORA-PASSAT-COOLANT-TEMP-TEMPERATURE-SENSOR-GREEN-4-PIN-059919501A-/160963644393?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item257a2e4be9

For £8 it might be worth trying it......
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Rhyso on 07 April 2013, 15:04
Could be a copy

Buy genuine parts  :smiley:  yes they are more expensive but then they do tend to last!!
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 07 April 2013, 17:27
But that's the part I need? I'll call in at Huddersfield VW tomorrow and get one.

Can anyone tell me where abouts in the engine bay the sensor is?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Wazzzer on 07 April 2013, 17:39
as you look in the engine bay it's on the right hand side next to the block.

As Rhys says it could be water pump related so get it sorted sooner rather than later
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Rhyso on 07 April 2013, 17:46
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=88088.0
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Kelvin1977 on 07 April 2013, 22:06
I had exact thing happen to me it was the shaft on the water pump slipping. But I would get it scanned first but my money would be on water pump
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Chris. on 08 April 2013, 00:43
Is there coolant returning to the tank?
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 08 April 2013, 12:30
Hi

The fault that came back was 17704. That was the only code that the reader bought up.

So I've found that relates to either the thermostat or the temp sensor.

If there was an issue with the water pump would this generate its own code as well?
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: mcgee9t2 on 08 April 2013, 12:46
dont think youde get a code from the water pump, cause its normally the shaft slipping/the "propellor" breaking so no real way to sense this afaik
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: dom on 08 April 2013, 12:49
The easy way to check the waterpump is to take the coolant bottle cap off, remove the coolant return hose going into the top of the bottle and place it into the cap hole so you can see if coolant is being pumped around the system.

If coolant is flowing through the pipe then chances are waterpump is ok.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 08 April 2013, 13:00
That's great, thanks for the help. I will go and do that now.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 08 April 2013, 13:12
I eventually got that pipe off, let it tick over and after about a minute fluid started to return to the tank through the pipe I had disconnected.

Does that sound ok?

Shall I start with a sensor and have a go at that in my garage tonight? I think I can do it with the guide on here.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: dom on 08 April 2013, 13:33
Yeah, that sounds like waterpump is ok.

My money would be on the temp sensor, it's a 2min job to replace so I'd start there :smiley:
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 08 April 2013, 13:44
Cheers Dom!

£37.96 from VW!! If I knew it was definitely that at fault I wouldn't have a problem paying it, but I'm tempted to get a pattern part now.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Rhyso on 08 April 2013, 13:51
Cheers Dom!

£37.96 from VW!! If I knew it was definitely that at fault I wouldn't have a problem paying it, but I'm tempted to get a pattern part now.

Pattern parts wont last  :sad:

Buy cheap, buy twice.......
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 08 April 2013, 13:54
I'd have to buy it 5 times over for it to cost the price of one sensor from VW.

Don't get me wrong I'd much rather use a main dealer for parts, but I might try a pattern to see if it solves the issue.

There seems to be two options, a green, rectangle 4 pin or a blue round sensor. Is it the green one I need?
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: dom on 08 April 2013, 14:10
You'll have to look at your existing one to see which type you need.

I agree with Rhyso about pattern parts, they won't last. A cheap one could be used for diagnostics, however if it confirms the fault then I'd fit a genuine one, if it is not at fault then refit your old one.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 08 April 2013, 14:13
I think that's what I'll do then.

This might sound daft, but I'm pretty sure the existing one is black. How can I tell if it's the blue or green one I need?
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: rio_gti on 08 April 2013, 14:30
It will be blue or green  :lipsrsealed:  :wink:
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 08 April 2013, 14:43
I'm sure it's black!
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 08 April 2013, 15:33
Don't laugh....when I said it was black.....I think I was looking at the wrong thing.  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Rhyso on 08 April 2013, 15:37
Don't laugh....when I said it was black.....I think I was looking at the wrong thing.  :embarrassed:

Click on the link i posted, it has pics of what to look for  :wink:
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Wazzzer on 08 April 2013, 19:53
It looks black until you take the plug off
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: topher on 08 April 2013, 20:03
The water may be circulating at tickover and returning to the header tank, but you've already said the temperature goes up the faster you drive. This screams water pump to me. The faster the engine is going, the harder the water pump has to work and thats when the impellor slips on the shaft. Or the impellor is half missing so it can't move the coolant fast enough at high rpms.

If you want to know for sure without stripping the cam belt off to get to the water pump you can remove the thermostat and just about get your finger on the impellor to see if its in one piece and to try to turn it. Chances are some of it will break off in your hands they get VERY brittle with age.

temp sensor faults usually make the needle flick up and down randomly, quite often dropping down to 0 while you drive then straight back up again. also the old style temp sensors were black.. i think the green ones replace them, couldn't say 100% without checking.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: colgtiturb on 08 April 2013, 20:52
Could also be a blocked radiator, which can cause the car to heat up with speed if there isn't sufficient air flow due to the blockage. When was the last coolant change?

Having said that, my money would be on the water pump impeller being broken & not pumping the water round quick enough.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 09 April 2013, 08:34
I managed to replace the sensor, probably took about 10/15 minutes. But it hasn't solved my problem.

This is how I fitted the sensor, I'm pretty sure this is how the old one was fitted but wanted to make sure...

(http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b578/jakejake85/photowe_zps23b3918b.jpg)

Same symptoms as before, stood in traffic the temp will sometimes drop, setting off and travelling between 20mph and 35mph the temp dial reads 90c anything above those speeds and the temperature increases. I was doing 55mph down a hill this morning, I think the revs were less than 2k (in 5th) yet the temperature was increasing. Even though the temp will go up to the red on the dial the fan never comes on.

I've read the thermostat is a fairly big job? I was thinking I could try and change that and whilst I was at it have a feel for the water pump? Or shall I just book it in to a garage?
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 09 April 2013, 08:41
Could also be a blocked radiator, which can cause the car to heat up with speed if there isn't sufficient air flow due to the blockage. When was the last coolant change?

Having said that, my money would be on the water pump impeller being broken & not pumping the water round quick enough.

To be honest I've not got a receipt to say when the coolant was changed last. The cambelt was done at the start of last year (16k ago) but there is no mention of the water pump being changed at the same time.

What sort of price will I be looking at for a cambelt/water pump change? £300?
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: GTi_James on 09 April 2013, 09:49
i got it for £390 but i went to dealers for a job like that though plenty seem to be able to do it on their drive, up to you really and VW would have traceability
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Rhyso on 09 April 2013, 09:50
i got it for £390 but i went to dealers for a job like that though plenty seem to be able to do it on their drive, up to you really and VW would have traceability

And you get 2 years parts and labour warranty at VW

Think I paid about £330 at my dealers a couple of years back. They even changed my AUX belt FOC!!
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: GTi_James on 09 April 2013, 09:53
i got it for £390 but i went to dealers for a job like that though plenty seem to be able to do it on their drive, up to you really and VW would have traceability

And you get 2 years parts and labour warranty at VW

Think I paid about £330 at my dealers a couple of years back. They even changed my AUX belt FOC!!

bang tidy!  :cool:
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Rhyso on 09 April 2013, 10:01
i got it for £390 but i went to dealers for a job like that though plenty seem to be able to do it on their drive, up to you really and VW would have traceability

And you get 2 years parts and labour warranty at VW

Think I paid about £330 at my dealers a couple of years back. They even changed my AUX belt FOC!!

bang tidy!  :cool:

Yeah but I am talking about 4 years ago mind  :whistle: :laugh: :laugh:

That and I helped keep the parts department in business  :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 09 April 2013, 10:12
lol.

VW want £399 and a local VW specialist want £320 using genuine parts.

If I know that will solve the issue I'll do it, but I'd be gutted if they did the work and I still had the problem. I was thinking about selling her in the next couple of months and getting a MK5 GTI.

Both VW and the specialist said there was no way of knowing if it had failed with out taking the pump off.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Rhyso on 09 April 2013, 10:18
Go with the specialist for that price  :smiley:

It will solve your problem  :wink: 
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 09 April 2013, 11:49
You'll all be sick of this thread/my posts.

Another VW specialist said they will do it for £250 + Vat but if it is the water pump there will likely be pieces of plastic in and around the engine. They would then charge me for manually removing them.

And just so I know, no one would bother changing the thermostat first? If not then I'll get it book in for the cambelt/water pump. Or maybe I should find a dealer with a nice mk5 in and chop my mk4 in ;-) .
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: GTi_James on 09 April 2013, 12:48
i think i've come to the conclusion that when it comes to mk4s you have to get your nose dirty but in the end you reward yourself  :wink:

i'd still get the mk5 though lol
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 09 April 2013, 20:04
The car behaved a little differently tonight. When it got warm, between 90 and 130 it felt sluggish and lacking in power. The fan actually came on tonight, I hadn't noticed that on before.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 09 April 2013, 20:08
That's 90 and 130 on the temp gauge not the speedo. Lol
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: topher on 09 April 2013, 20:10
i'd avoid driving it until you get it sorted, you don't want to cook it.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Nino on 09 April 2013, 22:33
When I first got my GTI my car was doing the exact same as you althou my power was ok. I didnt notice however that my MPG was bad as in lower than what i get now, I was lucky to hit the early 20's on the MPG mark. I changed my Temp sensor & termo (was a fatherless son to change the thermo) both for gen parts then I cleared my codes and my car got to 90 and stayed there, I also noticed my MPG got alot better about 27 around city and 34 on B roads & late 30's early 40's on motorway this was about a month after owning my car which strangely enough had a new cam belt & water pump fitted before I got it I later found out that they over tightend my engine mount bolts and 4 months later they snapped in my block costing me a good £700 to have the old bolts drilled out and new mount supplyed.

If i was you, I would book your car into VW, have your Cam belt, Water pump and tenioners & I would also request your thermo to be changed along with a GEN Temp sensor & request your engine mount bolts to be changed.

By VW doing it and not a VW specialist you will have a 2 year warranty with VW, if you engine breaks they will do a full rebuild for FREE! a specialist would prob source a 2nd hand engine and replace. (could be wrong thou)

I recon it will cost you, about £450 max for all the work and you will have a nice VW stamp in the book, you may as well get them to do a full service while they are at it. at least then your car should be runnig 100% and you wont be a debt with a mk5. ;)
Hell if for some unknown reason your car should by some unknown reason to the whole human race still have that problem, *cough* VW Warrenty*Cough* "it was running fine until it came in for a service and cambelt change" :wink:

Other than that if you wanted to try your hands at a thermo change, follow the link below, the only hard part is getting to the top bolt, you can easly round off the bolt so make sue you got a correct tool you will think that by removing the alterator would make it easyer, truth is, it will be it CAN be done if you take your time :)

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=101783.0
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Female_Golfer on 10 April 2013, 08:08
Thanks for that reply Nino, really appreciate it.

I noticed just this morning that the mpg was/is shocking, I bet it's around the 20mpg mark. Normally I'd see early 30's without trying.

I'll have a think about it today, I could get the work done like you have said and then keep the car for another year or so.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Nino on 10 April 2013, 11:36
Thanks for that reply Nino, really appreciate it.

I noticed just this morning that the mpg was/is shocking, I bet it's around the 20mpg mark. Normally I'd see early 30's without trying.

I'll have a think about it today, I could get the work done like you have said and then keep the car for another year or so.

That will defo 100% be your non-gen temp sensor causing that.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: kuvalee on 18 May 2013, 18:39
Hello, I live in huddersfield and work at Huddersfield Vw so I know all the mechanics some who do work on the side. If you want some one to have a look at it I can give you there number?
I also know the owners of vas tech on Manchester road and ivs Vw specialists on Manchester road both are very good.
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: harlemex on 19 May 2013, 16:08
amazing how much help people offer you because you are a woman  :wink: :wink:
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: Wazzzer on 19 May 2013, 19:59
48 replies and counting
Title: Re: Very Strange Issue With My 1.8 T
Post by: james2 on 19 May 2013, 21:13
change the thermostat first.  :whistle: