GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: davidopresto on 27 March 2013, 13:19
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Right this is my first post on here so be gentle :tongue:
I have an N reg Golf GTI 8v. I bought it and been running fine in it for just under a month and nothings ever gone wrong with it. Until a heavy rain storm (dont know if this is relevant but i thought i better share all the details of the problem) on the way home from work i did go through some pretty big puddles and i would be surprised if it didnt wet the whole engine bay... it carried on running fine and the next day it wouldnt start. It will tick over fine but wont even try and start.
Ive seen this kind of problem a lot so ive been scrambling around the internet trying to sort this out but its no good. ive been working on this for 2 weeks or so now and im runningm low on patience and funds (im a uni student...) :undecided:
whenever i turn ignition on there is a little fizz of electricity, the sound of it shorting out, coming from the top of the king lead in the dizzy cap, i am unsure of why this is, especially when turning igntion on??
Anyway, sorry for the long post but i need help as to anyone else can suggest what to do?
Thank you in advance!! :smiley:
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You could spray the leads with WD40 which will help disperse the water.Take the dizzy cap off and give it a clean and dry.Sounds like you've got a lot of water in where it shouldn't go. :shocked:
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Right this is my first post on here so be gentle :tongue:
I have an N reg Golf GTI 8v. I bought it and been running fine in it for just under a month and nothings ever gone wrong with it. Until a heavy rain storm (dont know if this is relevant but i thought i better share all the details of the problem) on the way home from work i did go through some pretty big puddles and i would be surprised if it didnt wet the whole engine bay... it carried on running fine and the next day it wouldnt start. It will tick over fine but wont even try and start.
Ive seen this kind of problem a lot so ive been scrambling around the internet trying to sort this out but its no good. ive been working on this for 2 weeks or so now and im runningm low on patience and funds (im a uni student...) :undecided:
whenever i turn ignition on there is a little fizz of electricity, the sound of it shorting out, coming from the top of the king lead in the dizzy cap, i am unsure of why this is, especially when turning igntion on??
Anyway, sorry for the long post but i need help as to anyone else can suggest what to do?
Thank you in advance!! :smiley:
How is this possible?
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It will tick over fine but wont even try and start. :grin: :grin:
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It will tick over fine but wont even try and start. :grin: :grin:
I think he means it will crank over fine, but won't start :grin:
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I hope so :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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take the lead that goes from the coilpack to the dizzy off of the dizzy. is there spark when the car is turned over? if not time for new coilpack. if ok next step. take key out of ignition if in ignition.
next take dizzy cap off.should have 2 clips- remove them. do the contacts (4 of them)on the dizzy cap itself oninside look shiny or black? if black then clean them. check rotor arm (can just pull this off)and can clean that too if needed.(the end should be shiny)
put back together cap back on and then lead from coilpack back on. try to crank car. no luck? take key out and onto next step.
if all this ok check first lead going from dizzy to sparkplug farthest away from distributor. take out sparkplug and see if it is ok. if sparkplug ok look at lead for corrosion. put plug into lead and crank car.if no spark then problem lies elsewhere. replace everything and try other plugs if first one sparks.
some people work their way back from the sparkplug but i start at the thing that failed on my car which is the coilpack.
hopefully it will not be the distributor itself or the sensor plugged into it( yeah check if it is plugged in)
so learn to avoid rain, puddles mud and snow, the enemies of german technology.
the timing may be off but that is for another post. check all this first.
you will need a friend to help you with this. more fun if done in the dark.
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Right, thank you for the replies!
1) Yes I meant crank over haha :p
2) all the leads and dizzy etc are dry so it's not this
3) all of the above I have tried, there is a spark from the main lead on dizzy when cranking over. When the spark plug is removed (all of which are spotless) and left in the lead and placed on the engine block there is no spark when cranking BUT when I turn the ignition On there is one single spark and that is all. The rotor arm and contacts withing the dizzy are fine by the way. And i have replaced the coil with a brand spanker and still nothing
:sad:
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Right, thank you for the replies!
1) Yes I meant crank over haha :p
2) all the leads and dizzy etc are dry so it's not this
3) all of the above I have tried, there is a spark from the main lead on dizzy when cranking over. When the spark plug is removed (all of which are spotless) and left in the lead and placed on the engine block there is no spark when cranking BUT when I turn the ignition On there is one single spark and that is all. The rotor arm and contacts withing the dizzy are fine by the way. And i have replaced the coil with a brand spanker and still nothing
:sad:
Have you tried bumping it? Not with jump leads. 2nd gear bump start?
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I havent tried bumping no... Do you reckon that's worth a shot?
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I havent tried bumping no... Do you reckon that's worth a shot?
no harm in trying
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get tour mates to push it down a hill and see it will turn over.i cleaned the battery terminals and battery leads with petrol and a wire brush. even took the leads apart and cleaned them good. it has solved my rough idling for now. i changed everything else befire that but silly me didn't think about battery. checked with a multimeter-ok. instead should've cleaned the terminals and the leads and got rid of the grime. sometimes simple things are overlooked that can make a difference. other people missed it as well.
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if it cranks fine and does not fire then pushing it down a hill won't make it fire either.
have you tested the coil? (take off king lead from dizzy and place next to engine, then manually power the coil up / down and see if it sparks....)
N reg.... could be ADY or AGG, which one is it?
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Battery terminals are all good and proper. And yeah i get a spark from the king lead, and I Think it's the AGG?
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Can you hear the fuel pump prime, does the fuel relay click too? No 167?
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Check if the wires running to the crank sensor are all split and broken.
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Check if the wires running to the crank sensor are all split and broken.
I doubt it can be that, because he saying he got spark.
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try bridging fuel pump relay (bottom right one) - there are four connectors... two smaller ones are for relay coil, so no interest to us... bridge the two bigger ones then fuel pump runs continuously.
try starting then... if it works then you need a "new" relay 167 - think i still got a working one sitting around at home....
if still no luck with starting do you hear the fuel pump (should be audible with engine off)?
should you not hear it check the 12v get to it - if they do and it doesn't run its the pump.
if the pump runs but it does not start check if fuel makes it to the front - undo the petrol hose, put it in a large glass jar and get someone to turn the ignition on. you should see a nice stream of petrol coming out..... it should not take too long to fill a pickled gurkin jar (say round 700ml), say less than to about a minute.
if you have sufficient flow of petrol there and spark and it does not start look at dizzy closer.....
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Haven't see anyone suggest it yet, Have you checked all the fuses? A blown engine management fuse made my abf refuse to start a month ago!
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Appreciate all the help guys by the way :smiley:
I took relay 167 and ran a 12v through it and I can hear it clicking. When I turn ignition on i dont think k I can hear the pump priming, ill try again when I get home. All fuses are fine as well. Checking the fuel flow with the jar is the next job I reckon
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I did the fuel test today and im definately getting fuel, filled half a jar in seconds :tongue:
I found my TOAD alarm and its definately nothing to do with that as it all works fine
Did a fault test today as well, engine came up with no faults....
So confusing...
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The other things u can try check your injectors by lifting up the fuel rail and seing if the injectors are spraying if they are then its check your engine timing then after that compression test
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Doesn't the agg have a cam position sensor,i havnt seen this mentioned in this thread and have heard you will only get one spark with ignition when this is playing up.
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Agg dont have cam sensors as the dizzy is providing the ignition at the correct time the crank sensor is telling the ecu were the engine is at and the dizzy follows the engine and sparks at tdc
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right guys, had a play around with it today and after a few little fiddles, it started.....
i left it running and after 5/10minutes it just died. and wouldnt start again. Then after a few hours i had another go and it started again. 5/10 minutes later, it died again :angry:
this makes me think its something to do with the engine warming up and cutting out or something along those lines?
BUT the fact that it can start and idle tells me that everything works i.e fuel pump, spark plugs and so on but something is causing it to cut out...
Extremely confusing and very stressful :embarrassed:
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167 fuel pump relay.When they get warm the contacts inside the relay can seperate causing you car to cut out.Same happened to me mate. :wink:
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This sounds plausible... I need to somehow get it started again and put my ear to the relay and listen for a click as it turns off i suppose.
I forgot to mention also, after i ran it the first time i tried fault coding the engine and it came out with a fault on the oxygen flow sensor or something? is that the lambda sensor?
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How does it run if you hold the accelerator down to 2.5k revs will it cut out or is this only idle problem then cut
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when it was running i held it on around 3k revs (i was doing it from under the bonnet so im not sure exactly) i held it there for about 10 seconds roughly and it didnt cut out, after that i left it to idle and as mentioned it cut out 5 minutes later :undecided:
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Oxygen Flow Sensor could also be known as Mass Air Flow sensor or (MAF).Did you disconnect that by pulling the plug on it at any time.If so,it will show up as a fault on VAGCOM,so you need to delete that fault before you re-scan.I would still say Fuel Pump Relay and as it is a cheap part best to change that first.Always look at the cheaper remedies before thinking of throwing money at more expensive "uneccessary" parts.What i mean is cheap things like relays,thorttle body cleaner,checking all earths etc.Instead of expensive new injectors,new MAF,new ECU,new DISTRIBUTOR etc. :wink:
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Change that relay but u need to find out if its a idle problem i would try hold the revs all the way up to opersting temputure to see if it cuts out with holding the revs if it dosent and then u let it idle and cuts out it would be worth checking the maf sensor theres a guide on here how to do it with a multimeter so u dont have to buy a new part and hope thats ur problem its in maintainence and then diy guides but change that relay
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hall sender unit on dizzy. if you hold the centre lead from dizzy close to earth (block) turn igmition to pos 2 and off repeatedly if it sparks at all the sender has gone short circuit.
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Right im trying to find a new hall sender, i cant find one anywhere, only a whole distributor. Any idea where i can get one? i usually rely on GSF or eurocarparts but neither of them sell them
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Hi bud.Have you tried a new fuel pump relay 167 before you start spending money on things you don't need??
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Hi bud.Have you tried a new fuel pump relay 167 before you start spending money on things you don't need??
why does he need a fuel pump relay?
theres no spark. so its not a fuelling issue?!
hall sender comes only on dizzys mate. best thing is to go to a scrappy get one and if it fixes it start saving for a new one...
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Oh really???
right guys, had a play around with it today and after a few little fiddles, it started.....
i left it running and after 5/10minutes it just died. and wouldnt start again. Then after a few hours i had another go and it started again. 5/10 minutes later, it died again :angry:
this makes me think its something to do with the engine warming up and cutting out or something along those lines?
BUT the fact that it can start and idle tells me that everything works i.e fuel pump, spark plugs and so on but something is causing it to cut out...
Extremely confusing and very stressful :embarrassed:
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fuel pump relay 167 seems to be clicking fine etc, But im getting fuel to come out on turnover so its not that, its definately electrical.
Ive been reading thousands of forums and the usual suspects that are turning up as far as im aware are:
-Oil Pressure Sensor
-Engine crank sensor
-MAF sensor
-Lambda sensor
-oxygen sensor
-hall sender
Any idea of anything to do with these?
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You forgot faulty Ignition Switch. :shocked:
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Your missing the shorted hall sensor! They get warm go short circuit i have had many many cars over the years with these symptoms. Its not a fuelling issue.
Did you do the test i said with the main lead on dizzy? Did it spark when turned to pos 2 and off?
If it did that is the hall sender its the only thing that gives that symptom.
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I thought a faulty hall sender wont let u rev past 5k and puts engine in limp mode
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Not if it goes short when its hot. It just completes coil energise circuit. The ignition then becomes the breaker hence the spark with ignition on off.
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Right i took the main dizzy lead off, placed it on the block and put ignition on and off, it DID spark.
At this point it could be anything so it may well be the ignition switch.
Like everyone says its such a shame because i loved the car the other month when it working.... now its come across as untrustworthy :cry:
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That spark mate is only one thing. Ignition switch wouldnt causethat. The hall effect has tone hort circuit to cause that spark. Get a secondhand dizzy to confirm. What engine code itnit inmay have a spare one i can lend you to test?
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ill be buying a new dizzy within the next couple of days so ill see how it goes, not holding out much hope though :undecided:
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What engine is it i might have one!
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not sure what code it is but its the 2.0 gti 8V N reg. bought a second hand one on ebay for 25 quid so ill be fitting it tomorrow, Cheers for the offer though analogue_rogue :smiley:
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Just look at your VIN number on the bottom of the carpet in the boot (if it is there) or in your service manual (if you have that) Then post it on here and people will be able to help you out. The forum members are very supportive and I have gotten help in the past from them. I think there are quite a few in your area.
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Yep. I have a nearly new one you
Could have had for the postage.
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Ive replaced the dizzy and rotor arm, it started and ran, so i turned it off and on about 6 times and it worked fine so i left it running, after 8-10 minutes it then just died and would not start again. I then replaced the coolant temperature sensor (just on the off chance it was that) it didn't make a difference.
When i say it dies and wont start i mean there is suddenly no spark whatsoever once its died.
Is anybody able to do a ohms reading on the 3 pins that lead to their crank case position sensor to check what readings they are getting, because ive done it on mine and im not getting any reading at all. If anyone can check this or already knows what it should be coming out with i would seriously appreciate this :smiley:
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Ill do it tomorrow for you... Was that dizzy brand new or second hand? Its worrying it ran fine then died lile that.... Do you have same symptoms as before with ignition/sparking?
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Thank you analogue_rogue, and it was brand new with the sensor in it as well. And its the same issue as before, it will die, ill try start it and it wont even try, ill let it cool right down and it will start and run fine until (im guessing it warms up) and then it will die. ive removed the spark just after it had died and there is no spark on cranking.
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Is there a spark on ignition to pos 2 and back... Im worried something is popping that hall sender
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im not sure, ill have to try tomorrow. Do you know where the ECU relay is as well? It just seems ive replaced a list of things i didnt need. im in a position where i either sell the car as is for spares or just keep spending :cry:
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What do you mean by ecu relay? Do you mean ign amp?
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im not sure :laugh: just seen it pop up on some threads about an ecu relay
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Lol. Do the ignition test. Then we can take it forward :-)
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Do the test with a multi meter on your maf its a important sensor its reporting to the ecu and telling it how much air is going in and it injects the correct amount of fuel dont forget cold start is rich and would easily keep a engine alive the min it warms up the fuel ratio is different the guide is in maintainence section also check your ecu for water damage aswell its easy just unclip your rain tray were your pollen filter have a look to see if its wet disconnect the battery and unbolt the mountin bracket and then slide the plastic plug and it will unclip the plug check the ecu pins its worth checkin
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Do the test with a multi meter on your maf its a important sensor its reporting to the ecu and telling it how much air is going in and it injects the correct amount of fuel dont forget cold start is rich and would easily keep a engine alive the min it warms up the fuel ratio is different the guide is in maintainence section also check your ecu for water damage aswell its easy just unclip your rain tray were your pollen filter have a look to see if its wet disconnect the battery and unbolt the mountin bracket and then slide the plastic plug and it will unclip the plug check the ecu pins its worth checkin
Theres no spark on cranking so this the maf irrelevant. Ecu connector is def worth a check. Although i cant see how it would be at fault only once running for a bit.....
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Ive tried getting a resistance reading from the crank case position sensor and again i got nothing :undecided:
Its confusing me as to how consistent it seems to be on when it cuts out
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Can't be bothered to read all the way through again....but have you changed the ECU relay? They're only £10! I have one which I know works fine you can have for free if you want?
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Okay read through it again....if you are getting nothing from the middle pin on your crank sensor (best to test with an led tester) when you turn it over then it isn't working. That sends a signal to the ECU, if it doesn't get one, it won't fire! Just to add, crank sensors can be fine until they get hot after a few minutes and then fail! Or even just be randomly intermittant.
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Did you test ignition spark thing we discussed? Rule one thing ou at a time.
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Okay read through it again....if you are getting nothing from the middle pin on your crank sensor (best to test with an led tester) when you turn it over then it isn't working. That sends a signal to the ECU, if it doesn't get one, it won't fire! Just to add, crank sensors can be fine until they get hot after a few minutes and then fail! Or even just be randomly intermittant.
Sorry i posted in between your posts lol.... Crank sensor was next to test "tag team high five your turn"
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i dont know where the ecu relay is so no i havent replaced it :embarrassed:
Where is it located?
And if replacing the ecu relay might have something to do with it then yes id be more than happy to take it off your hands :whistle: :smiley:
Right when i have an extra set of hand free later on ill try the middle pin while cranking
I have tested to see if i get a spark when putting ignition on and off etc. I turn ignition ON, nothing. As im turning ignition OFF theres a spark
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Ecu relay is in the fusebox, it should be black or White, number 30 stamped on it, fusebox is near the steering column.
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i knew the ominous fuse 30 was a common problem, didnt know that was the ecu relay :rolleyes:
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ok.. so we know that when it has its fault..
1) the coil is being energised normally.
2) when the ignition is turned off the coil is discharged through the distributor.
3) when cranking there is no spark.
This means. we know the coil works, we know the wiring to the coil is good.
We know that when the engine is static all of the parts required to create a spark are inline in the circuit. (IE hall sender is closed, ign amp is in circuit and amp voltage and the ecu is sending the correct signal to prime the coil)
What we don't know why the coil is not discharging and recharging during cranking.....
I don't have an ignition diagram for this engine has anyone got one they can put up in this thread?
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PM me your address and I'll send you the relay. It may not be the problem but it's always worth having a spare as they break!
PS My money is still on crank sensor. So common for them to go it's the first thing I would try....
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Crank sensor. When it dies does the oil light flash? or even when you try to start it after its cut out, Does it flash then?
Also when does it give you a problem, when engine is hot or cold?
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Hmmmm,like i said before always start with the cheaper options ie;relays etc, instead of more expensive ones like Distributor,MAF,Coil.But heyho you decided to choose the more expensive option first.Only trying to help m8 and i have been down the same road as you with the cutting out/stalling problem.Change fuel pump relay167 and ECU relay 30. :rolleyes:.Also like GOLF-MK3-GTI said if your car cuts out with "flashing oil light" then i would also suggest Crank Sensor fault.
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It cant be the maf sensor. It cant be the fuel pump rrlay. Its spark related. The crank sensor could cause it or you could have popped the hall sensor again.
Fault diagnosis is a logical process not just a case of throwing a random load of cheap parts at te car umtil you hope its fixed. Start with what you do and dont know mate.
Ill give you my number via pm and i can help over te hone if you like?
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Its easier than trying to type on my phone here hahha :-)
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And as "ALL Mk3 Golf Gti owners" will know,Relays and Sensors are a common fault issue. :smug:
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I dont doubt that, but i have been a mechanic a long time and owning and repairing are worlds apart.
Te problem is a signal issue it is not fuel or air related. So there is no point touching any fueling relays or intake sensors. Thats like changing airbags to fix dents!!!
The crank sensor is a viable suspect. Well worth checking for a pulse put of it when cranking. If you dont have an oscilloscope (which im sure you dont lol) solder an led onto teo bits of wire, earth the negative side of led and place positive leg into output pin of sensor (it will need to be connected to the loom) and check to see if you are getting a pulse from it....
If you have an oscilloscope probe the same pin for a square wave form.
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This cant be a relay issue as he is getting fuel into a cup or a ecu fuse which would result in no spark no fuel nothing i belive in anoluge rouge in terms with the crank sensor ive had a few cam sensors in my time not related to this car which have cut the engine out when it begins to warm up and will keep the engine from starting up as a signal can be lost or be misleading to the ecu as these mk3 golfs arent so futaristic we would be looking at ecu picking up a crank signal coil charges and then dishcgares when the dizzy contact breaker point is met the ecu can advance and retard the ignition timing if there is no pulse from the crank the coil cant be told when to charge eg the no spark scenerio you have tested that the coil can hold and discharge the spark but its worth testing cranksensor then the then checking the dizzy timing after that theres not much more to check after that in the ignition.department as it is not that highly controlled like modern cars it runs fine when cold so dizzy timing wouldnt be a prob as misfiring would be a result or it would never start .
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Analogue,i don't doubt that you have been a mechanic for a long time,but being a mechanic and being and VW specialised mechanic are two different things.You did ask Dave earlier what he meant by "ECU relay" and anyone who has worked on or owned a Mk3 Golf knows what that relay is and what it does.I am trying to help that guy from spending money on things he doesnt need ie DISTRIBUTOR,which he has already been advised on here to buy.Relays are cheap fixes and more often than not are the root cause of numerous problems.Next is Sensors,again which are the root cause of numerous problems.After that is the time to look at more expensive fixes.
Xionsolaris,you say it can't be a relay problem but on my Mk3 Golf 8v Gti my relay started packing in when it got warm and the contacts inside the relay start to seperate.Mine started ok and i had spark and fuel flowing but after the car had warmed up and the relays start to warm aswell then the problem started.I also had the Crank Sensor changed as the car would cut out randomly and would not re-start for a while.
I would not advise someone to change expensive parts on their car before trying the above Relays and Sensors as they are 9 times out of 10 the problem.There are VERY COMMON problems with the Mk3 Golf and cutting out/non starting and not many are to do with the DISTRIBUTOR they are to do with RELAYS and SENSORS. :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
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Analogue,i don't doubt that you have been a mechanic for a long time,but being a mechanic and being and VW specialised mechanic are two different things.You did ask Dave earlier what he meant by "ECU relay" and anyone who has worked on or owned a Mk3 Golf knows what that relay is and what it does.I am trying to help that guy from spending money on things he doesnt need ie DISTRIBUTOR,which he has already been advised on here to buy.Relays are cheap fixes and more often than not are the root cause of numerous problems.Next is Sensors,again which are the root cause of numerous problems.After that is the time to look at more expensive fixes.
Xionsolaris,you say it can't be a relay problem but on my Mk3 Golf 8v Gti my relay started packing in when it got warm and the contacts inside the relay start to seperate.Mine started ok and i had spark and fuel flowing but after the car had warmed up and the relays start to warm aswell then the problem started.I also had the Crank Sensor changed as the car would cut out randomly and would not re-start for a while.
I would not advise someone to change expensive parts on their car before trying the above Relays and Sensors as they are 9 times out of 10 the problem.There are VERY COMMON problems with the Mk3 Golf and cutting out/non starting and not many are to do with the DISTRIBUTOR they are to do with RELAYS and SENSORS. :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
Why hasn't he got a relay yet there like £3-5 or something like that I stopped reading this thread for a while but near the start he was talking about getting a relay if you haven't bought a relay simple thing to do to test if its the relay look into your owners manual and fine fuses and relay find another relay that's not important but the same and swap it with the fuel pump relay and test if it works then purchase a relay (just look at the relay part number and match it with the fuel pump relay) You usually start with basics fuses and relays I thought we was past that now :whistle:
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Exactly xionsolaris,WHY he didn't buy the relays and try them is beyond me too.Instead he bought a new DISTRIBUTOR which has made NO difference whatsoever. :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
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Analogue,i don't doubt that you have been a mechanic for a long time,but being a mechanic and being and VW specialised mechanic are two different things.You did ask Dave earlier what he meant by "ECU relay" and anyone who has worked on or owned a Mk3 Golf knows what that relay is and what it does.I am trying to help that guy from spending money on things he doesnt need ie DISTRIBUTOR,which he has already been advised on here to buy.Relays are cheap fixes and more often than not are the root cause of numerous problems.Next is Sensors,again which are the root cause of numerous problems.After that is the time to look at more expensive fixes.
Xionsolaris,you say it can't be a relay problem but on my Mk3 Golf 8v Gti my relay started packing in when it got warm and the contacts inside the relay start to seperate.Mine started ok and i had spark and fuel flowing but after the car had warmed up and the relays start to warm aswell then the problem started.I also had the Crank Sensor changed as the car would cut out randomly and would not re-start for a while.
I would not advise someone to change expensive parts on their car before trying the above Relays and Sensors as they are 9 times out of 10 the problem.There are VERY COMMON problems with the Mk3 Golf and cutting out/non starting and not many are to do with the DISTRIBUTOR they are to do with RELAYS and SENSORS. :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
You a vw sepcialist? Didnt think so.
Please explain how the fuel relay stops a
Spark.
Please explain how the ignition system derives its spark from the maf sensor?
Dont start quoting remedies you have been told and offering crap advice.
I never told him to buy a distributor i said suspect it. I offered a free one to test theory. You just told him to go and buy parts that were never going to fix it so whilst i dont doubt you have owned a vw or two. You still remain an owner not mechanic or a specialist.
Either get a wiring diagram and look at it logically or shut up.
And stop offering red herrings. Like fuel pump relays and other unrelated items.
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fuel pump relay 167 seems to be clicking fine etc, But im getting fuel to come out on turnover so its not that, its definately electrical.
Ive been reading thousands of forums and the usual suspects that are turning up as far as im aware are:
Lets start with the ignition circuit again shall we?
:whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
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To be fair to everyone.. I think we need a list of current symptoms..
(I was just reading back and they seem to change throughout the posts)
Do you have spark on cranking at the dizzy?
at the plugs?
Do you have fuel flow on priming?
you said you were getting a second hand dizzy then a new one? which was it?
does the car have an immobiliser (you mention a toad, that's a thatcham alarm which has at least two separate immobiliser circuits.. usually starter and spark)
what have you changed so far?
With this information we can get up to date and start fresh rather than bickering over it.
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That spark mate is only one thing. Ignition switch wouldnt causethat. The hall effect has tone hort circuit to cause that spark. Get a secondhand dizzy to confirm. What engine code itnit inmay have a spare one i can lend you to test?
So this quote wasn't yours then????
For the price he paid for the dizzy he could have replaced the 167 and 30 relay and probably solved the problem.These engines are bullet proofed and very rarely have Distributor problems.Buying secondhand dizzy's is a waste of time as they could be carrying problems.
I don't profess to be a VW mechanic but as any Mk3 Golf owner will tell you these problems are VERY VERY COMMON and can be fixed without splashing out big money on unwanted parts.Have a read through some of the other threads on here relating to similar problems and you will perhaps understand where i'm coming from.
Plus for your information my problems have been resolved by a guy who runs a VW Engine building business and has done for 30 years so i know his knowledge is spot on,unlike some people. :whistle: :whistle:
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this is all pointless now there's no point explaining it anymore my advice is take it to a local garage to get it diagnosed and fix the problem instead of having a dead car for ages your advice on hall sensor was not true (The ECU will trigger the coil even if the distributor hall sender is unplugged, an ADY or AGG will run almost as well as normal up to 5K rpm with the hall sender unplugged, all it does is to tell the ECU where number one piston is so as it may initiate sequential rather than full group injection. ) I have somewhat agreed with you about the crank sensor would create a spark problem this thread is going up and down really its hard to keep track of what's going you was certain about the distributor hall sensor and he bought one (hall sender comes only on dizzys mate. best thing is to go to a scrappy get one and if it fixes it start saving for a new one) maf sensor does have something to do with ignition not as much as affecting sparking issues but the ecu needs to know how much fuel to parts air and then can adjust the ignition timing to match the mixture more air more fuel faster the engine and the ecu can advance and retard ignition timing for the fuel load I just think he should take it to a garage this cant be a diy with that you can message over the net someone needs to look at it in person so theres no point at proving whos better than each other this guys got a dead car at the moment so best advice is take it to a garage
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Get a secondhand dizzy to confirm. What engine code itnit inmay have a spare one i can lend you to test?
I don't profess to be a VW mechanic but as any Mk3 Golf owner will tell you these problems are VERY VERY COMMON and can be fixed without splashing out big money on unwanted parts.Have a read through some of the other threads on here relating to similar problems and you will perhaps understand where i'm coming from.
Plus for your information my problems have been resolved by a guy who runs a VW Engine building business and has done for 30 years so i know his knowledge is spot on,unlike some people. :whistle: :whistle:
Yes my quote.. "test it with a spare first to discount it"
two points here... HIS knowledge not yours.. again the home enthusiast thinks he knows what it is because ALL symptoms can be caused by the same thing every time... go get some experience then come back fella.
Or get the guy that fixes your car for you because you clearly lack the knowledge! hahaha!!!! :whistle:
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(The ECU will trigger the coil even if the distributor hall sender is unplugged, an ADY or AGG will run almost as well as normal up to 5K rpm with the hall sender unplugged, all it does is to tell the ECU where number one piston is so as it may initiate sequential rather than full group injection. )
I think your theory of hall senders is a little off. the cam shaft sensor is used in later cars to replace it and you are right in saying it will run without hall sender it but it wont START without it.
BTW heres a little gem for you....
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=210366.10 (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=210366.10)
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To be fair to everyone.. I think we need a list of current symptoms..
(I was just reading back and they seem to change throughout the posts)
Do you have spark on cranking at the dizzy?
at the plugs?
Do you have fuel flow on priming?
you said you were getting a second hand dizzy then a new one? which was it?
does the car have an immobiliser (you mention a toad, that's a thatcham alarm which has at least two separate immobiliser circuits.. usually starter and spark)
what have you changed so far?
With this information we can get up to date and start fresh rather than bickering over it.
now please.. can we just try and help this guy rather than measuring our d***ks :D
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Like i said ALL Mk3 Golfs seem to develop the SAME problems at some time or other.It's not just me saying so it's COMMON KNOWLEDGE of the Mk3 Golf,read the other threads on the same issues.I want to see the guy get his Golf back on the road quickly and inexpensively,not waste his hard earned on useless parts.Don't you???
Every car built has common issues and you being a mechanic should know this,the Mk3 Golf is no different bud.
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http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=210366.10 (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=210366.10)
I took your advice... read this mate...
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Yep read it m8.But the op has already said he has had the engine running,surely if it was the Hall Sender it wouldn't start at all.He also said he ran a scan on the engine but didn't say if he used a proper VAGCOM or not.Wouldn't you suggest running a VAGCOM diagnostics first to see what faults it throws up.
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To be fair any fault code would
Help now from any reader lol
I think we need a current list of accurate symptoms....
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To be fair any fault code would
Help now from any reader lol
I think we need a current list of accurate symptoms....
lol its a bit old school doing this without a fault code reader even atleast it can point us in some direction 6 pound vag com lead comes in handy
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I leave you all for a day and it all kicks off :laugh:
As far as all the questions go, the car works 100percent of the time WHEN COLD. As doon as it warms up it dies and as long as its warm it wont start again. So this tell me EVERYTHING works including fuel pump etc. But whatevers killing it must surely be something to do with temperature?? :undecided:
And as for why i bought a new dizzy, is because i needed a new hall sensor as someone suggested it might be this and i too had high hopes for it. Im replacing the crank case position sensor i think next. And by the way all these sensors add up so ive tried to thinj logically before buying 100s of new relays and sensors for no reason
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Please change the crank sensor. That's where your problem is. I repeat change the crank sensor.
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Does it have spark when its cranking warm?
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Its not that bad with thinking logicly on these golfs its easier than fixing new cars i hope the crank sensor if its easy to get to the sensor let the car warm up and take off the sensor and spray something like electrical contact cleaner or brake cleaner on the actual sensor it will cool it down quickly plug it in and fire it up if it works u know your prob only do this if the crank sensor is accesible
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As soon as he puts it back in the block will heat it back up lol :-)
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As soon as he puts it back in the block will heat it back up lol :-)
if its easy to get to and can be quick it can show results cam sensors can be done that way but there on the cam cover and easy to get to
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Like GOLF-MK3=GTI has said replace Crank Sensor.They are not easy to get to as they are positioned on the front of the engine block below and behind the the front engine mount.That has the be removed to gain access to the Crank Sensor and they are a b!tch to do.
Also,when it cuts out do you see the Oil Light on the dash FLASH,if so defo Crank Sensor.These sensors are prone to fail at some time due to the wires into the sensor becoming brittle and breaking.
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Right, ive got crank sensor off, came on here to see what everyones suggesting and all fingers are pointing toward the crank sensor... Good stuff. the cars on ramps so i can get under it (which was harder than getting the sensor off...its lowered a fair bit :cool:)
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Did you have a look at the wires to see if they were brittle/broken.I know its a right game getting the sensor off,been there. :sad:
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Also don't replace with a cheap one! Get it from TPS or if from Eurocarparts opt for the more pricey OE quality one. The cheap ones are sh*t! I had one that lasted all of 3 days before it needed replacing again.
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I've had this problem with a few cars and it has always been the crank sensor. Usually starts by cutting out when the engine warms up and won't start and then eventually packs in altogether. Crank sensors are about £40
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Any updates? I'm curious to find out the result :smug:
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Cars still on ramps lads, shuld HOPEFULLY be having a crack at it soon :smiley:
Nearly all motivation is gone with this car, feel like im giving a dead man cpr :laugh: :rolleyes:
Ill keep you all posted :smiley:
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All done, got it fitted... Eventually, one knuckle ruined and engine oil in the eye :sick:
She runs, been in it all day showing her whos boss :grin:l
So im an extremely happy man! :laugh:
HOWEVER!! its limited at 5k revs..... Im guessing this is limpmode? I always imagined it to be 4k revs but who knows. Any ideas gentlemen?
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All done, got it fitted... Eventually, one knuckle ruined and engine oil in the eye :sick:
She runs, been in it all day showing her whos boss :grin:l
So im an extremely happy man! :laugh:
HOWEVER!! its limited at 5k revs..... Im guessing this is limpmode? I always imagined it to be 4k revs but who knows. Any ideas gentlemen?
was it crank sensor in the end?, also now just get your timing right and enjoy it :cool:
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Glad u got it fixed hall sender unit will limit revs to 5 k
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Glad u got it fixed hall sensor will sfop u revin passed 5k if its faulty have u got ur old dizzy still
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Yeah it was the crank sensor in the end, and do you really think the hall senders gone? Its been used like 4 times from brand new :huh:
I COULD try putting the old dizzy on but that can wait while i have some fun first :laugh:
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Yeah it was the crank sensor in the end, and do you really think the hall senders gone? Its been used like 4 times from brand new :huh:
I COULD try putting the old dizzy on but that can wait while i have some fun first :laugh:
if you've replaced the distributor with a new unit, it won't be the hall sender sensor. Your timing is prob out. Get the timing sorted, then watch the thing rev past 5RPM. :grin:
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+1 on the timing being out.Glad you got it fixed davidopresto.Happy Days :smiley: :smiley:
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Damn ive missed this thing, ive been on the 125cc motorbike while the cars been put of order... BIG power difference haha :evil: ill get the timing sorted and it should sort iself out regarding the 5k limit? Good good, lets get that done and im all good for the beach trips haha :grin:
Thank you all soooo much by the way, been a great help! Ive been on various forums with previous cars such as bmw, seat,vauxhall etc. and even a vw polo forum but none of them have helped me quite as much as this so again thank you all :smiley: