GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: dub_man_cabbie on 22 March 2013, 10:50
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hi guys ive finally finished my mk3 conversion, thanks for all help from you lot. saved me hours of head scratching.
anyway its a agu lump, ko3, 150bhp on a standard setup other than a front mount intercooler forge 007p and 2.5 custom decat downpipe, im wanting to get it remapped but my overall goal is about 250bhp ish so im asking for your advice on which turbo will suit best, and any other mods im gona need to achive this figure. also im a little green on the remap side of things read about stage 1 and 2? but do i have to have 1 before 2 or can i get all the parts needed and do it all at once? thanks again,
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You want to talk to Mr Kells..(F17BAD) or BenVictors on here...they have the force when it comes to the 20vT mk3 conversion. :afro:
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In terms of mapping I'd wait until you've got everything together and do it in one go.
A Ko3s turbo with the right supporting mods would see ~235bhp, to see 250bhp you'd need a KO4 or even a hybrid turbo.
As well as the turbo you'll need:
- Manifold/custom downpipe (If fitting KO4)
- Silicone TIP
- Silicone Boost Hoses
- VR6 MAF
- Bigger Injectors
- Upgraded Fuel Pump
- CAI
- Custom Mapping
I'm sure I'll have missed something but that's a good start.
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thanks guys, so it looks to me that 235bhp is a lot easier to achive than 250! and for the extra money to gain that 15bhp extra it doesnt seem worth while at the mo,
so im looking at
-ko3s
-forge TIP
-bigger injectors
-3" MAF
-bigger fuel pump
am i write in thinking i can get all of these from an s3?
also if i was running this setup with a quality map would i be stretching the boundaries of the ko3s? i mean would it be on its limits and be likely to go pop
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any idea on which injectors ill be needing and what fuel pump will do the job if i cant get my paws on an s3 type affair?
cheers
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thanks guys, so it looks to me that 235bhp is a lot easier to achive than 250! and for the extra money to gain that 15bhp extra it doesnt seem worth while at the mo,
so im looking at
-ko3s
-forge TIP
-bigger injectors
-3" MAF
-bigger fuel pump
am i write in thinking i can get all of these from an s3?
also if i was running this setup with a quality map would i be stretching the boundaries of the ko3s? i mean would it be on its limits and be likely to go pop
For 235bhp you won't need injectors, MAF or fuel pump.
KO3s, TIP, turbo back exhaust, 007p & FMIC are all you need :wink:
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oh brilliant, that extra 15 bhp really is a dear doooooo then ha ha,
thats me shopping for a ko3s then!
thanks again guys
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oh brilliant, that extra 15 bhp really is a dear doooooo then ha ha,
thats me shopping for a ko3s then!
thanks again guys
pm littco from here he does a hybrid ko3s this guy just got his :wink:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=250936.0
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Vr6 MAF housing, Calibra yellow injectors, BAM/Walbro fuel pump.
Make sure your intercooler pipe work is 2.5" minimum.
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thanks guys, so it looks to me that 235bhp is a lot easier to achive than 250! and for the extra money to gain that 15bhp extra it doesnt seem worth while at the mo,
so im looking at
-ko3s
-forge TIP
-bigger injectors
-3" MAF
-bigger fuel pump
am i write in thinking i can get all of these from an s3?
also if i was running this setup with a quality map would i be stretching the boundaries of the ko3s? i mean would it be on its limits and be likely to go pop
For 235bhp you won't need injectors, MAF or fuel pump.
KO3s, TIP, turbo back exhaust, 007p & FMIC are all you need :wink:
He has a agu so you are best off doing what wazzzer had just said.
The k03s is capable of makin 262+ bhp (it's has been done) its just you have do do everything properly (no bodging, Cuttin corners or doing stuff cheap.
You will want
fmic with 2.5" pipe work
Big tip
Pump
Injectors
Silicone pipe work
Catch can and pcv delete
3" downpipe and 2.5"+ exhaust
You already have a large port head and mani which is good!
A healthy turbo
Personally I would get rods to be safe but they arnt needed (not actually that expensive and around £350
Water/meth injection
Uprated clutch
Decent induction kit with heat shield and cold air feed or a smooth airbox with panel filter and cold air feed
Also you will need to port the manifold
That's all I can think at the min (may have missed somethin) but that should see around 250bhp :sad:
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You dont need to change the fuel pump unless you are pushing for more than 300bhp, even up to 400bhp they have been known to be ok.
K03s at 260bhp?!? Wow, I bet thAt turbo lasts about a 1000 miles lol
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Fuel pumps have known to go below 300bhp and depending on the mileage of the engine te pump could be on its way put and the last thig you want is it leaning out as knackering the engine.
I dunno if you have been keeping track of the recent developments over the last 12 moths but they can hit 260 if the build is done properly
But obviously that is pushing limits so 250 is a better target :smiley:
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Not disputing the figure, just saying you are seriously ringing its neck at that sort of power :wink:
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260 is literally the limit of the turbo but its normally the rest of the build that's the problem which means you can't run it too its limit :laugh:
As long as its mapped well and has WMI etc it should last a long time at 250 :smiley:
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thanks guys,
im thinking id b happy with 235bhp if thats possible with a silicone tip and a ko3s thats pretty much all ill need extra and to reach 250bhp seems a lot more expence like i said i just didnt want the turbo to be at its limit or as ben puts it ringing its neck :grin: im of the thinking that 235bhp with a happy engine is better and will give me more reliability than a maxed out turbo on its limits. thankyou :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: for the welth of kn owledge all really appriciated
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260 from a ko3 aint gonna happen unless u visit a certain rolling road... (do they even alow enough air to flow this much)
you will be doing well if you map to 260 on a KO4!!!
fuel pump is fine on the GTI - mine is currently at 350 bhp on the GTI pump (it is been changed tho when the car goes for remapping - im still only on 10 psi boost at the mo
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R-tech have recently been pushin the limits of the k03 platform and they also have good reliable rollers
They'd aged to push the standard k03s to 260 and littco made a hybrid and got them to test it and made 300 bhp and has made a new hybrid which r-tech are currently testing which looks like it may be finishing somewhere around 330 (hopefully)
I did say about the pump I would change it just to be safe not that you have to as the last thing you want is the engine to recieve less fuel then it wants!
Standard k04 limits with a relentless manifold and other mods is around 300-310bhp (Toby on here hit 304)
And the k04 hybrid has managed to hit 354bhp max but has currently been detained as it needed a bit more fettling an is used on a trackcar so they wanted to be safe with the temps.
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Take a read- http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=245004.0
Take note
"For the K03s boys... We car now offering a "tried and tested" Stage2+ 1.8T AUM AUQ K03s tuning solution for 255-260bhp 270-300lbft on the stock turbo."
"K04-023 and relentless manifold 304bhp custom tuning solutions for AGU AUM
:smiley:
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Wouldn't believe all the r tech hype all the time if I was you
Didnt somebody on this site have a mk4 that was a claimed power only for it to be nowhere near that power when it was on a dyno dynamics rollers :wink:
A remap and a Ko3s is gonna be 230 ish BHP I'd say
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Well they hides to get around 230 on their rollers just like everyone else untill their recent breakthroughs where now thy are gettin 250+ on te same rollers
There are also many cases of their rollers wing proven accurate again other reliable rollers compared o the one case you are talking about with a dyno dynamics set which iirc (not 100% sure) add a fixed percentage to the wheel power so in your case the fixed %. May have been "wrong"
I'm not sure but I follow r-tech/badger5 and others closly and have found that they seem like te more reliable tuners who know what thy are on about and give consistant reliable figures.
Just my 2cent :smiley:
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Some company's make big claims to get customers
I'm a big fan of badger 5 but even his over priced TIP which claims super BHP increase made only 2
BHP on a friends 20vt.. Same rolling road same day tested
On both
That's my 2p :grin:
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A tip can only flow more, if the rest of the set up is not restricted from that flow on the current tip then a bigger one wont make a difference as it doesn't need more flow
But the b5 tip has proven to have more flow which means it has more potential doesn't make it a magic piece of silicone which will give you more bhp :smiley:
Both r-tech don't give silly figures or do lots of promoting as the majority of the promoting is done by happy customers who have had other tuners maps removed and theirs placed on instead of.
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You also say it was a 2bhp peak enhancement but what about average hp/lbft gain and was it mapped for the increased airflow?
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How can the badger tip flow more when the inlet of the turbo is still tiny, meaning it can only accept the same amount of flow no mattwr how huge the tip is ( do you get me?)
I made my own tip for my S3 engine which has the audi Rs2 turbo, It has a bigger inlet than the tiny ko3 turbos and ko4's
My too is big all the way to the turbo, the exact size if the turbo inlet
I made this by using a silicone tip and metal pipe work, works a charm
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The badger tip is large bore and the same size all te way through where as a lot of others decrease in diameter.
I not sayin you can't make one just as good but many people prefer to buy something off the shelf
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Your not grasping what I'm saying
WHAT IS THE POINT IN HAVING A OVER SIZE TIP RIGHT UP TO THE TURBO WHEN THE TURBO STILL HAS THE SAME TINY INLET BORE ON ITS HOUSING ? haha
In other words, the turbo can only accept the same air no matter what size the tip is near the inlet
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Yes I know but the k04s limits were not being reached with smaller inlets pipes as the flow had reduced too much by the time it had reached the turbo.
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I fail to see how as a silicone tip is the correct bore so flow will be fine
The B5 tips have the same tiny hole as any other silicone tip anyway, in the form of that metal adapter
Turbo can only take as much air as its inlet will let it regardless of how oversized the tip is near the bottom
Not convinced :undecided:
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If that is your theory then make a tip that reduces from 80 to 56mm straight after maf an stays 56 all the way to the turbo and see if it performs aswell as the badger5 unit....it won't
The less restrictive the better the less the tip resticts the airflow the better :smiley:
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But the Badger 5 Versus stock only achieved 2 bhp on this application... measured on same day same rolling road so perfect test.
thats not a lot for what it costs, and TBH normal silicone tips are not restrictive
As i say, Tubro cant flow no more than its inlet, make your tip as big as a dustbin, still wont get more air through the inlet on turbo will it ?
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As I said before was the car mapped to real the benefits of the extra flow?
Everyone knows with any mod the cars map needs adjusting to suit.
The thing is that the turbo on a normal map with others tips don't get the maximum air to the turbo and of the turbo is having to work harder to pull that air through there is more losses of energy.
The more air that is available the easier the turbos will spin so the faster it will spool and the quicker it will spin.