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General => General discussion => Topic started by: Ninja on 24 February 2013, 19:59
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I never knew the original logo looked.. So... Weird. :whistle:
It looks very much like a German cross.
(http://blog.billjacobsvw.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/volkswagen-logo.jpeg)
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First time I've seen that 1939 one... :rolleyes:
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The fact it looks like a Swastika is no accident, I take it you are aware of VW's darker days...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
Or
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=swastika&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=D-ErUdOtEIqK0AWCrYHoDw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1267&bih=609
Keep any comments completely "On topic" or I'm sure this thread will almost certainly be locked/deleted VERY quickly!
Thom
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Never seen the first two before.
thom any info on these "darker days" you speek of. pm me if you dont want to post on here and get completly off topic.
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Hmm Hitler.. Beetle.. :whistle:
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Never seen the first two before.
thom any info on these "darker days" you speek of. pm me if you dont want to post on here and get completly off topic.
Quite simple really, the German Nazi party set up VW which by the way means "People's Car" as a cheap, easy to produce, easy to maintain and most importantly, affordable mode of transport to all Germans, so great vote catching, and social propagander (sp)
The rest is unfortunate history! Do a wiki search on VW and go back to the 30s and you'll get a clearer idea about what was happening at that time..
As I've already said, this subject matter is highly volatile on forums, but at this point, I see no harm in reasonable discussion!
Thom
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Never seen the first two before.
thom any info on these "darker days" you speek of. pm me if you dont want to post on here and get completly off topic.
Quite simple really, the German Nazi party set up VW which by the way means "People's Car" as a cheap, easy to produce, easy to maintain and most importantly, affordable mode of transport to all Germans, so great vote catching, and social propagander (sp)
The rest is unfortunate history! Do a wiki search on VW and go back to the 30s and you'll get a clearer idea about what was happening at that time..
As I've already said, this subject matter is highly volatile on forums, but at this point, I see no harm in reasonable discussion!
Thom
this isn't strictly true, the nazi's were running the nation, the labour union founded VW.
VW weren't really 'dark' as such...
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does it really matter if vw have a dark history...... We won the war and look at our car amkers we have left!!
Yes we have aston, bentley, rolls and some other "kit car" people! (and some are still actually owned by the brits! :undecided:)
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Never seen the first two before.
thom any info on these "darker days" you speek of. pm me if you dont want to post on here and get completly off topic.
Quite simple really, the German Nazi party set up VW which by the way means "People's Car" as a cheap, easy to produce, easy to maintain and most importantly, affordable mode of transport to all Germans, so great vote catching, and social propagander (sp)
The rest is unfortunate history! Do a wiki search on VW and go back to the 30s and you'll get a clearer idea about what was happening at that time..
As I've already said, this subject matter is highly volatile on forums, but at this point, I see no harm in reasonable discussion!
Thom
this isn't strictly true, the nazi's were running the nation, the labour union founded VW.
VW weren't really 'dark' as such...
I think you need to do a little more homework!
Thom
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I'm pretty well informed actually.
you may as well be saying that anything that came out of Germany in the 30's and 40's has a 'dark' history.
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KDF before that.
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I'm pretty well informed actually.
you may as well be saying that anything that came out of Germany in the 30's and 40's has a 'dark' history.
Pretty much yes!
And a quote from Wiki, which I knew already...
"Volkswagen was originally founded in 1937 by the Nazi trade union, the German Labour Front (Deutsche Arbeitsfront).[3] In the early 1930s German auto industry was still largely composed of luxury models, and the average German rarely could afford anything more than a motorcycle. As a result only one German out of 50 owned a car. Seeking a potential new market, some car makers began independent "peoples' car" projects – Mercedes' 170H, Adler's AutoBahn, Steyr 55, Hanomag 1,3L, among others"
And not forgetting the massive slave labour that was put to use in the factory!
I really don't think that you could get any "Darker" than Germanys Industrial past, on any level, anywhere else in the world!
Thom
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And a quote from Wiki, which I knew already...
"Volkswagen was originally founded in 1937 by the Nazi trade union, the German Labour Front (Deutsche Arbeitsfront).[3] In the early 1930s German auto industry was still largely composed of luxury models, and the average German rarely could afford anything more than a motorcycle. As a result only one German out of 50 owned a car. Seeking a potential new market, some car makers began independent "peoples' car" projects – Mercedes' 170H, Adler's AutoBahn, Steyr 55, Hanomag 1,3L, among others"
not too sure what's 'dark' about this paragraph???
And not forgetting the massive slave labour that was put to use in the factory!
i knew you were going to bring this up. of course no other 'civilised' nation in the west (or anywhere for that matter) has used slave labour in the past. And of course no one in the east still does...
slave labour was always par for the course in any developing society.
I really don't think that you could get any "Darker" than Germanys Industrial past, on any level, anywhere else in the world!
no comment...
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And a quote from Wiki, which I knew already...
"Volkswagen was originally founded in 1937 by the Nazi trade union, the German Labour Front (Deutsche Arbeitsfront).[3] In the early 1930s German auto industry was still largely composed of luxury models, and the average German rarely could afford anything more than a motorcycle. As a result only one German out of 50 owned a car. Seeking a potential new market, some car makers began independent "peoples' car" projects – Mercedes' 170H, Adler's AutoBahn, Steyr 55, Hanomag 1,3L, among others"
not too sure what's 'dark' about this paragraph???
And not forgetting the massive slave labour that was put to use in the factory!
i knew you were going to bring this up. of course no other 'civilised' nation in the west (or anywhere for that matter) has used slave labour in the past. And of course no one in the east still does...
slave labour was always par for the course in any developing society.
I really don't think that you could get any "Darker" than Germanys Industrial past, on any level, anywhere else in the world!
no comment...
We are worlds apart!
Thom
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i concur. we'll agree to disagree shall we
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i concur. we'll agree to disagree shall we
Yes!
Thom
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A few Polish people I worked with in the past hated the vw brand because of the link to hitler.
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A term I use quite a lot! GODWIN'S LAW :whistle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law)
Is it dark these days NO
"History is used to learn from, rather repeat the same mistakes History teaches us"
VW is one of the great things that came out of Germany and Economics.
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VW is one of the great things that came out of Germany and Economics.
Good point Jay, and no one is disputing that VW are an inspirational company, and have been for many years. I also hear what you say about "Godwins Law" that I have heard of before, but I'm now better informed through the Wiki link that you provided
However, the OP made a direct observation that the early VW emblem, resembled the "German Cross"
"I never knew the original logo looked.. So... Weird. It looks very much like a German cross"
I hope I answered his question honestly, and he can see why the early Logo was designed like it was. and form his own opinion, with the links provided
Thom
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Wikipedia - The font of the internets facts.
The above statement might be completely contrived and made of no factual information whatsoever, but I've submitted it now and you lot can't do squat about it..... Ner ner Hitler ner.
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:laugh:
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VW is one of the great things that came out of Germany and Economics.
Good point Jay, and no one is disputing that VW are an inspirational company, and have been for many years. I also hear what you say about "Godwins Law" that I have heard of before, but I'm now better informed through the Wiki link that you provided
However, the OP made a direct observation that the early VW emblem, resembled the "German Cross"
"I never knew the original logo looked.. So... Weird. It looks very much like a German cross"
I hope I answered his question honestly, and he can see why the early Logo was designed like it was. and form his own opinion, with the links provided
Thom
Thom it just makes me chuckle as I had the same conversation in Hong Kong about Japanese car maker Mitsubishi they made loads of fighter planes and motors for Japan and I've lost loads of family in the Asian world war. But some of my family member's refuse to buy Japanese made cars, but still drive German funny one politics and history!
Once people get past the moral part of history we can view history for what it actually really is mistakes and Economics!
As for the Swastika I see that as something religious in my culture, shame most people don't even realise there are actual Swastika's dotted around old London buildings for religious reasons!
Guess the more we actually discuss it the moral implications are just of one rantings of an insane man!
Iron crosses is another symbol for velour and bravery good or bad light or dark some symbols in history have great significance that echo even through the present day!
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On a lighter note, a friend of my dad was put in charge of rebuilding Wolfsburg after the war and to get it building beetles asap.
He brought back three I believe, one for work one for messing around in and one for Sundays.
VW helped turn Germany round into the country it is today :smiley:
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VW is one of the great things that came out of Germany and Economics.
Good point Jay, and no one is disputing that VW are an inspirational company, and have been for many years. I also hear what you say about "Godwins Law" that I have heard of before, but I'm now better informed through the Wiki link that you provided
However, the OP made a direct observation that the early VW emblem, resembled the "German Cross"
"I never knew the original logo looked.. So... Weird. It looks very much like a German cross"
I hope I answered his question honestly, and he can see why the early Logo was designed like it was. and form his own opinion, with the links provided
Thom
Thom it just makes me chuckle as I had the same conversation in Hong Kong about Japanese car maker Mitsubishi they made loads of fighter planes and motors for Japan and I've lost loads of family in the Asian world war. But some of my family member's refuse to buy Japanese made cars, but still drive German funny one politics and history!
Once people get past the moral part of history we can view history for what it actually really is mistakes and Economics!
As for the Swastika I see that as something religious in my culture, shame most people don't even realise there are actual Swastika's dotted around old London buildings for religious reasons!
Guess the more we actually discuss it the moral implications are just of one rantings of an insane man!
Iron crosses is another symbol for velour and bravery good or bad light or dark some symbols in history have great significance that echo even through the present day!
Jay, thats an interesting viewpoint, and I have a similar story about my Dad, long story short, towards the end of WW2, he was assigned to work with the Americans (101st Airborne) on D-Day as a special radio operator (SOE) ten months later, he found himself, with other Allied forces at the front gates of Belsen concentration camp, what he must have witnessed on D-Day, and the liberation of Belsen, is beyond words
He also spent much of the War, and some time after, setting up X-Stations (Clandestine radio stations) in the Far East, Burma, Malaysia, Philippines etc, where he also got first hand experience at just what the Japanese were capable of! and it seems that this had a more lasting effect!
When I was a kid, I would ask him why he would never buy a Jap car, and the answer would always be, because of how the Japs treated the POWs, especially of the Soldiers that were forced into the building of the Burma Railway...
Yet back in the 70s and 80s, he was happy to drive a BMW or Mercedes! and was always impressed at the level of the superb engineering skills of the Germans, that sadly is not evident today, like it used to be...
Mitsubishi, I believe are well over 100 years old, and started in heavy engineering related to shipping, there part in the Japanese war effort, can be likened to that of Ford, or Rolls Royce, Mercedes, or BMW for that matter, they were existing companies that were drawn into the war
VW on the other hand, were set up as a direct maneuver, by the Nazi Party to have a direct, and manipulating effect on the German masses, which also tied in very nicely with Hitlers push to complete the Autobahn system
Am I bothered by VWs history? well no! I have a 24 year old Mk2 GTI tucked away in my garage, and a virtually brand new Mk6 sitting on my drive, and I'm also on the hunt for some serious old Aircooled toys, be it VW or Porsche
I'm a bit like my Dad really :wink:
Thom