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General => General discussion => Topic started by: dom on 17 February 2013, 14:20
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Quick plumbing related problem.
Like a moron I forgot to switch off the water to the outside tap before we had the freezing conditions a few weeks ago until about a week in. :rolleyes:
Anyway, had forgotten about it until this afternoon, turned the water back on, went outside and only had a dribble coming out of the tap.
A quick google search suggests the check valve might have been damaged by ice. Am I right in thinking that this is the check valve along with the isolation valve?
(http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy183/codling1234/IMAG1287_zps2407297d.jpg)
If so is it just a case of switching off the water, undoing the two nuts and swapping it for a new one?
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Looks like a ball valve and a flow regulator screw (same as you see on bog inlets). Uses compression fittings so will depend on how tight they've been done up before as to whether the ferrules are knackered or not. If they are, they might not seal again when re-tightening which you will need some new copper pipe and need it re-brazing.
That is worst case though. Have you checked that there isn't just still a load of frozen water still in the pipes? Giving them a tap should tell you as they will sound different. Also make sure the flat head screw is wound out enough to let a decent amount of flow through.
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I'd go to get a 15mm stopcock, and cut in a separate check valve, and get a new outside tap with a check valve! It's a small chance that you will vet get anything going back up, but when a hose is left in a bucket it could allways happen!!
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Ignore this post.
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Also the picture above is the isolator valve for the outside tap, when that is open I can hear water begin to flow if the outside tap is turned on, but the water coming out of the tap is only a trickle...
Just to add, I was under the impression that it was a combined isolator and check valve like this one:
http://www.plumbingsuppliesandfittings.co.uk/15_mm_DZR_double_check_valve_with_isolation_valve--product--107.html (http://www.plumbingsuppliesandfittings.co.uk/15_mm_DZR_double_check_valve_with_isolation_valve--product--107.html)
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if you can hear water flowing but not much is coming out the tap it is more than likely the tap that is actually broken apposed to the valve inside the house, the tap will have frozen solid and damaged the mechanism inside, first thing i would do is turn the water off and dismantle the tap and see if anythings broken
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if you can hear water flowing but not much is coming out the tap it is more than likely the tap that is actually broken apposed to the valve inside the house, the tap will have frozen solid and damaged the mechanism inside, first thing i would do is turn the water off and dismantle the tap and see if anythings broken
Cheers, will do :afro:
**Edit: Just taken the tap off and the water is still just dribbling out of the pipe :angry:
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Ok so now you need to find out if you have water coming out of the bottom of the stop valve/check valve.Turn the water off with the black with the black switch.Undo the bottom compression nut and disconnect the copper pipe.Place a container under the stop valve and slowly turn the switch on.If water comes out then the problem is between the stop valve and the outside tap,in other words a blockage in the pipe that goes through the wall.
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I had it last year, but it was the non-return valve seal had dislodged itself causing it to block the water flow. Turn the water off at each stage before what you are about to dismantle, undo the compression joint a bit, then turn on the water again with a bucket underneath if its indoors. That will give you an indication as to where the problem lies, without completely dismantling each part.
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Cheers guys, I'll try that later this evening :afro:
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Did you house come with an outside tap, or did you fit it yourself?
God knows why but they didn't fit one to our new build, so got to plumb one in myself in the spring!
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if its a new build - doesnt it come with a warranty :grin: :laugh:
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Did you house come with an outside tap, or did you fit it yourself?
God knows why but they didn't fit one to our new build, so got to plumb one in myself in the spring!
It was an optional extra...I won't tell you how much I paid for it :grin:
It's the kind of thing that they really should fit as standard, but I guess they want to save wherever they can :rolleyes:
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Haha, that'll be why then, our house was finished when we bought is, too late to get anything added/changed :sad:
Going to get one of these £20 kit jobbies and go about fitting it at some point. Doubt my cheapo cordless drill will be up to the task of drilling the entire way through the wall though!!
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if its a new build - doesnt it come with a warranty :grin: :laugh:
Yeah it does and they're coming on Tuesday to fix the crossed pipes in the downstairs toilet...at the moment the toilet cistern fills up with hot water :rolleyes:
I wanted to give the car a clean today/tomorrow which is why I've been trying to sort it myself, I'm starting to think it might just be frozen pipes though :undecided:
If I've got nowhere with it by Tuesday I'll let their plumber deal with it.
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Absolute doddle m8.Screwfix sell the outside bracket with a length of copper pipe already attached.So you only need the outside tap and then tap into the cold water mains supply.Not forgetting to drill through the wall where you want the tap positioned. :smiley:
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Looking at something similar to this.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OUTDOOR-GARDEN-DIY-TAP-KIT-SELF-CUT-/120897495993
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Yep thats what i would use.Get yourself a 16mm masonry drill approx 18 inches long and borrow a decent drill.I always measure up and drill in from the outside of the wall that way you can drill through the mortar and not the brickwork.It makes the job a lot easier bud.
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Cheers mate, that's good advice. then I just need to work out where the hole is, as the kitchen unit has a back board to it :grin:
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:grin: yeah that don't help.Cut a hole in the back board with hole saw about 2 inch diameter.Be accurate with the measurements too otherwise you'll end up 2 holes that don't line up. :embarrassed:
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you say its a new build but it must be a bit of age considering the amount of green on those pipes :lipsrsealed:
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Right, back to my tap :grin:
Just took the pipe off the bottom of the valve and opened the tap on it, not water other than a tiny dribble. In the morning I'll switch the water off and remove the valve completely, turn the water back on and see what happens.
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you say its a new build but it must be a bit of age considering the amount of green on those pipes :lipsrsealed:
House was completed at the end of august last year.
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Okay,i would unscrew the little screw that holds the black tap in place.Take the black tap head off and underneath should be a square shaped head.Get an adjustable spanner and slowly try to turn the square shaped nut.
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Green on the pipes will be from condensation where cold pipes meet warm air.Not uncommon on cold mains water pipes.
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Okay,i would unscrew the little screw that holds the black tap in place.Take the black tap head off and underneath should be a square shaped head.Get an adjustable spanner and slowly try to turn the square shaped nut.
I'll give it a go in a bit :afro:
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yeh its just a bit strange seeing copper pipes with soldered joints in a new house, seems rather outdated to me thought most people used plastic nowadays
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The older plumbers still like to use solder fittings but don't always wipe the flux off after soldering.Hence the green on the copper pipes.
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Okay,i would unscrew the little screw that holds the black tap in place.Take the black tap head off and underneath should be a square shaped head.Get an adjustable spanner and slowly try to turn the square shaped nut.
Turned the square nut 360 degrees and still nothing, do I need to turn it more?
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It should only turn a quarter of a turn.Sounds as if that may be the problem as there are very small stops that make it nion impossible to turn that nut 360 degrees.
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It should only turn a quarter of a turn.Sounds as if that may be the problem as there are very small stops that make it nion impossible to turn that nut 360 degrees.
If it is just spinning would that indicate that it has broken inside?
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Very very likely.Best plan would be to replace the fitting altogether.
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Very very likely.Best plan would be to replace the fitting altogether.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Does it just look like a standard isolation valve to you? Not likely to have a check valve built into it?
(http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy183/codling1234/IMAG1292_zpsb6e8743a.jpg)
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Nope,standard isolating valve would only have the screw head halfway along the body and not the black switch ball valve.I would have used a washing machine connector which only has the switch ball valve.
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Hang on, if the black switch is a ball valve then with the switch removed the inner bit should spin freely shouldn't it?
The only thing restricting it to 1/4 turn is the switch itself?
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I blame the tie wrap!
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Not if its broken off inside and seized in the off position.
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I take it that the outside tap is below the ball valve connector.
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I take it that the outside tap is below the ball valve connector.
Yeah it is, there are two 90 degree bends then it's straight towards the external wall.
I'll turn the water off in the morning, take the valve off completely, and turn the water back. Water should come out of the pipe at the top of the valve shouldn't it?
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Yeah,without the valve on then there should be no restrictions to the flow of water.If there is water flowing then its definitely a faulty valve.Only reason i asked about the position of the outside tap was after looking at the small arrow on the right side of the valve which is an indicator to which way the water should flow.
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Right then, removed the valve and sure enough water was flowing freely.
There is a check valve between the thumb and screw valves which appears to have broken. Problem solved, many thanks to those who contributed :afro:
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Well done m8,them valves can be a bit of a pain. :wink:
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On another note. The garden tap kits, where you get a connector that splices into your existing cold water supply. Are they actually safe/any good?
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Yeah perfectly safe,i have used them to fit outside taps for people on numerous occassions.Be careful if cutting into the cold water supply with it turned on tho.
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I'd rather not use them tbh! I allways do mine with solderd copper! And the little things u screw on to the pipe if never trust!
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Yeah each to their own.Could also cut the copper cold feed supply and put a T connector in but try explaining that to someone that may not have the know how. :huh:
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It all comes down to how much they want to pay!
The amount of jobs that I go to which " looks simple enough" for the customer to attempt them selfs, ends up costing them more! Lol
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Aye, I'm not cutting up and soldering pipes myself, I don't have the tools. Am considering screwing a T joint where the washing machine pipe connects. Washing machine one side, external tap on the other.
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Using a T joint would be okay as long as you don't use the outside tap at the same time as the washing machine. :shocked:
Yep Toby i hear where your coming from,have experienced the same myself.