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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: Godzilla on 12 February 2013, 15:28

Title: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Godzilla on 12 February 2013, 15:28
Hi people  :smiley:

Well it has been over a year since I sold my VR6 and I have been trotting round in a diesel as a daily......Until today!

I have bought a 3 door 1997 black MK3 VR6 but with an Audi TT engine in with a bigger Turbo, upgraded injectors, mapped etc.....Rolling road printout shows 279.8bhp.

Nice car and rather quick!  Needs a few little bits doing here and there but that is part of the fun!!
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: trog_nfs on 12 February 2013, 15:32
This one?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vw-golf-mk3-vr6-modified-1-8t-conversion-278bhp-sleeper-subtle-road-or-trackcar-/230924112507?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item35c426527b
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Shady Pioneer on 12 February 2013, 15:44
Welcome back mate. :) Most people can't stay away.  :grin:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: thai-wronghorse on 12 February 2013, 16:06
Looks to be a decent car for the money if it is that one.
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: tweed on 12 February 2013, 16:06
TT engine?

I was looking at this the other day. Sure is nice
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Shady Pioneer on 12 February 2013, 16:09
It is that one.  :cool:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: jamiefin on 12 February 2013, 16:35
Hi people  :smiley:

Well it has been over a year since I sold my VR6 and I have been trotting round in a diesel as a daily......Until today!

I have bought a 3 door 1997 black MK3 VR6 but with an Audi TT engine in with a bigger Turbo, upgraded injectors, mapped etc.....Rolling road printout shows 279.8bhp.

Nice car and rather quick!  Needs a few little bits doing here and there but that is part of the fun!!

my baby  :cry:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: tweed on 12 February 2013, 16:40
Hi people  :smiley:

Well it has been over a year since I sold my VR6 and I have been trotting round in a diesel as a daily......Until today!

I have bought a 3 door 1997 black MK3 VR6 but with an Audi TT engine in with a bigger Turbo, upgraded injectors, mapped etc.....Rolling road printout shows 279.8bhp.

Nice car and rather quick!  Needs a few little bits doing here and there but that is part of the fun!!

my baby  :cry:

Why sell it then?
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: jamiefin on 12 February 2013, 16:50
unfortunately last place I was a chef at the bloke didn't pay me for 2 months of employment I didn't turn up as im meant to get paid weekly id say 8 weeks behind is enough then got "sacked" for gross misconduct taking them to court but slow progress and my new job is monthly first pay check isn't till 5th of march  :sick:

in the last 5 months gone from turbo 2000 and my golf to pauls diesel oh well gotta take it on the chin either sell the cars or not make rent!
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: F17BAD on 12 February 2013, 17:56
Seen this and wondered What rolling road was that logged on ??   Standard TIP and 280 bhp with a K04 ? seems a bit generous to say the least 
 :wink:


Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Foreveryoungaus16v on 12 February 2013, 17:59
U got competition now! lol How much BHP does urs produce?
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: F17BAD on 12 February 2013, 18:01
U got competition now! lol How much BHP does urs produce?

around 360 at the moment on half boost (10psi) currently awaiting custom map

no competition at all, i junked the K04 for my current set up  :wink:

Thats why i know a genuine 280 bhp form a K04 is very hard to achieve

thry usually make a genuien 255 - 265 bhp with the set up that cars got
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Foreveryoungaus16v on 12 February 2013, 18:07
Bloody hell! I retract my statement then, that is quick lol
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: tweed on 12 February 2013, 18:09
To be fair my mate has had a s3 and a ko4 mk2 golf both with similar set up and both engines made it in the 270's
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: F17BAD on 12 February 2013, 18:12
it is stupid fast, but theirs alot more modifications done to my engines, i have RS2 turbo, External wategate, RS2 manifold, 540CC injectors, fully forged internals, list goes on and on and on


It was quick with the K04 tho too, but nothing like it is now, where the ko4 runs out of puff this thing keeps going

just too hard to get near 300hp with ko4 and thats what i wanted

everyone says 270 after map, trust me this i usually bollox, get em on a dyno dynamics, or better still speak to bill at badger 5 he will tell u what they make
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Godzilla on 12 February 2013, 18:36
That is interesting F17BAD.......   My car was rolling road tested at the place that did the map. So sometimes they are slightly out with figures?  So mine with a K4, FMIC, Mapped, Powerflow exhaust and mushroom airfilter, what would your guess be at BHP?

Also with this power I am wondering if driven with care what kind of MPG will I be able to see?  I know one of the breather pipes needs replacing as serious smell of oil in the cabin?  Will give the MAF and flying saucer a good clean and check all breathers for splits.
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: F17BAD on 12 February 2013, 18:42
look here

first 2 cars - Cupra R which is same engine as Audi S3, (which has the bigger injectors Ko4 etc)   

both on stage 2 revo maps


3rd car has IHI big turbo - again cupra R

look at the results, this is on Dyno dynamics rollers


http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/GallerySCN280309.htm


id say your car would be 250 ish on a dyno dynamics, TBH it is the torque that u want

They call in the Dyno lottery for a reason.

mine made 265 ish on the dyno dynamics when i had the K04 and other normal S3 bits plus a few more mods than yours

I now have the full Genuine MTM big turbo set up that cost the origibal owber £7500!!! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:


if you are near 300ibft torque id be fitting con rods or that engine will not last long

did mine, means full engine strip down..  this is is those figures are genuine

hope this helps brother  :cool:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Godzilla on 12 February 2013, 18:57
look here

first 2 cars - Cupra R which is same engine as Audi S3, (which has the bigger injectors Ko4 etc)   

both on stage 2 revo maps


3rd car has IHI big turbo - again cupra R

look at the results, this is on Dyno dynamics rollers


http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/GallerySCN280309.htm


id say your car would be 250 ish on a dyno dynamics, TBH it is the torque that u want

They call in the Dyno lottery for a reason.

mine made 265 ish on the dyno dynamics when i had the K04 and other normal S3 bits plus a few more mods than yours

I now have the full Genuine MTM big turbo set up that cost the origibal owber £7500!!! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:


if you are near 300ibft torque id be fitting con rods or that engine will not last long

did mine, means full engine strip down..  this is is those figures are genuine

hope this helps brother  :cool:

Thank you mate


Also.....Just listened to some of your tooones.  Love it!  I used to go to Exodus back in the day, early 90's rave and house ruled!
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: hobbiniho on 12 February 2013, 19:09
Also with this power I am wondering if driven with care what kind of MPG will I be able to see?  I know one of the breather pipes needs replacing as serious smell of oil in the cabin?  Will give the MAF and flying saucer a good clean and check all breathers for splits.
well i get 200 miles to a tank in my one  :grin: :laugh: but that is probably just the fact im still in the honeymoon period  :rolleyes: as for the oil smell i would do a pcv removal and fit a catch can stops the engine sucking on oily fumes  :wink:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: dom on 12 February 2013, 20:21
That is interesting F17BAD.......   My car was rolling road tested at the place that did the map. So sometimes they are slightly out with figures?  So mine with a K4, FMIC, Mapped, Powerflow exhaust and mushroom airfilter, what would your guess be at BHP?

Also with this power I am wondering if driven with care what kind of MPG will I be able to see?  I know one of the breather pipes needs replacing as serious smell of oil in the cabin?  Will give the MAF and flying saucer a good clean and check all breathers for splits.

I'd also say with just KO4 & FMIC you'll be looking at around the 250bhp mark.

Peak power figures are pub talk though, at the end of the day as Brad says it's all about torque and power delivery. Regardless of how you look at it, a 1.8t with KO4 in a MK3 will be quick :grin:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Shady Pioneer on 12 February 2013, 21:07
You're gonna have to take me for a spin in this on Sunday. :afro:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: hobbiniho on 12 February 2013, 21:08
yeh they are fast doesnt take long for me to hit the shift light in fifth  :laugh:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: F17BAD on 12 February 2013, 21:52
Wish i Could show you what damage mine can do

it is sheer brutality

Man Versus Car = Car wins, not enough road it just keeps pulling

Cant wait till Nick (of Carbon) finishes the mapping for it
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Bellend on 12 February 2013, 21:55
I was thinking about this earlier, where's the limit?

Where does it stop with a MK3? Can you 4WD it?

How far do you go before you just give up and get an RS4 or something?
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: hobbiniho on 12 February 2013, 22:02
Wish i Could show you what damage mine can do

it is sheer brutality

Man Versus Car = Car wins, not enough road it just keeps pulling

Cant wait till Nick (of Carbon) finishes the mapping for it
what gearbox are you running?? must be something special to handle the power? iv got a box out of a mk4 gti and iv been told that limiter in fifth should be about 157mph  :laugh: which in a mk3 is plenty   :laugh:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: F17BAD on 12 February 2013, 22:17
Its a EMR code form a Mk4 Golf 2.0 GTI, same ratios as a 16v mk3 box 

(my dads old gearbox from the car he bought brand new, which i then did a conversion for him to 20VT)

I shipped the box off to Hotgolf for full rebuild, it now has everything new inside, But iv changed the ratios by fitting a VR6 final drive for longer gears and bigger top speed

Also fitted a Wavetrac Limited slip diff, ARP bolts too (£1000) and then fitted a Audi TT short shift

also runs the MK4 sh!t mech and cables

it feels like a brand new car to drive, short sharp gearchanges... its one of my fave parts of the car

when i drive a mk3 with a mk3 box now, it feels like its knackered even tho its not ha!


also lightened my flywheel whilst at it

old V new

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9325/imageulx.jpg)


The Gearbox

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2908/imageyvyk.jpg)
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Screech16v on 12 February 2013, 22:31
Pure filth that is  :drool:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: F17BAD on 12 February 2013, 22:36



Also.....Just listened to some of your tooones.  Love it!  I used to go to Exodus back in the day, early 90's rave and house ruled!

Nice one matey  :cool:

Where u from ? Doing a old skool event in Leeds on the 23rd just about a sell out.. Going to be special :-)
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: F17BAD on 12 February 2013, 22:39
Pure filth that is  :drool:

Cheers mate
Has alot to cope with that box   :smiley:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: tweed on 13 February 2013, 10:43
Pure filth that is  :drool:

Cheers mate
Has alot to cope with that box   :smiley:

So what you did was spend loads of money for a low mile k04 lump and then changed the turbo, pistons, rings, rods and a lot more stuff?  :laugh:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Ess_Three on 13 February 2013, 11:57
everyone says 270 after map, trust me this i usually bollox,

I agree.
Even at 270 BHP the boost required is so big that the K04 is just a heat pump by then...so you won't even make 270 without some VERY good intercooling.
You can get 280 BHP on a K04 on standard injectors...with the injectors running at well over 95% duty cycle and likely to melt the engine if you try a top speed run...so actually getting to and running 280 BHP on a K04 is HARD.
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Ess_Three on 13 February 2013, 12:00

if you are near 300ibft torque id be fitting con rods or that engine will not last long


Whilst good advice, I have to question this 300 lb-ft limit.
I ran 330+ lb-ft for over 2 years with no problems.
I sold the S3 to a mate who sold it to another mate...and at 6 years old, it was still running 320-330 lb-ft on standard internals.

However, the delivery was so spikey, it was a handful for a 4WD car...and utterly pointless and verging on undrivable on a FWD car with a chassis as bad as a Mk3 Golf.
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Len on 13 February 2013, 12:48
Hey Paul how ya going mate!

Quite fast by the look of this car! :grin:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: tweed on 13 February 2013, 13:45
Any more than 200bhp on a fwd is pointless I think. Well not pointless as its huge fun, BUT on a track day I think you would struggle to go any faster. Bhp goes up but grip doesn't.
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Ess_Three on 13 February 2013, 15:19
Any more than 200bhp on a fwd is pointless I think. Well not pointless as its huge fun, BUT on a track day I think you would struggle to go any faster. Bhp goes up but grip doesn't.

It's chassis and tyre dependant.
On a Mk3...I'd agree.
Much over 200 BHP and the chassis really struggles.

Newer cars cope far better...you can run 270+ on a Mk6 with little worry (and use it) and 300 BHP+ on the likes of a focus RS.
But not on a Mk3...sadly.
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: tweed on 13 February 2013, 15:35
Any more than 200bhp on a fwd is pointless I think. Well not pointless as its huge fun, BUT on a track day I think you would struggle to go any faster. Bhp goes up but grip doesn't.

It's chassis and tyre dependant.
On a Mk3...I'd agree.
Much over 200 BHP and the chassis really struggles.

Newer cars cope far better...you can run 270+ on a Mk6 with little worry (and use it) and 300 BHP+ on the likes of a focus RS.
But not on a Mk3...sadly.

Yeah old chassis can't cope, that's what I should of added.

My mate that works for pro alloy has a focus rs and obviously has made his own pro alloy coolers induction kit, etc. he's fitted de-cat and milltek with a REVO stage2 map and is running 320bhp. The car is a animal and handles great in the bends, sticks very well.
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Godzilla on 13 February 2013, 17:11
Hey Paul how ya going mate!

Quite fast by the look of this car! :grin:

Hi Len  :smiley:

I am well  :smiley:  Back on the Dub scene......Cant keep away for long  :grin:

Car is great fun, spins in 1st, 2nd and 3rd!   Not over keen on suspension though as it is the standard VR6, feels unstable. My VR had coilovers on and they were really good.  This car need a few bits and bobs doing to it. The last stereo install was just brutal! I removed all of the wires etc from the install today. Also battery is mounted in the boot. I took that out and rubbed down the earthing point as it was very weak, getting a nice 14.2v now  :smiley:

Do you still have your Mi-16 Len?
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: F17BAD on 13 February 2013, 17:31

if you are near 300ibft torque id be fitting con rods or that engine will not last long


Whilst good advice, I have to question this 300 lb-ft limit.
I ran 330+ lb-ft for over 2 years with no problems.
I sold the S3 to a mate who sold it to another mate...and at 6 years old, it was still running 320-330 lb-ft on standard internals.

However, the delivery was so spikey, it was a handful for a 4WD car...and utterly pointless and verging on undrivable on a FWD car with a chassis as bad as a Mk3 Golf.


you was very lucky and sounds like you had a bad map too

i have no issues with power delivery or drivability what so ever, its no track day car but if i was to do track days id not be using a mk3 golf!! (or any golf for that matter) :grin:

i used to have major issues with traction and handling with my old box and no diff and 250 bhp, but now it is a total transformation with the current box, wavetrack diff and 350+ Bhp, and if anyone saw my facbook last night it absolutely killed off STI hawkeye last night at the lights (i was behind him and when the raod branched into a duel carriage way i took him in second!)

then again in 3rd when he came up behind me like a raving raly driver, he then bottled it at the next set of lights, turned round and went back the other way

Not arsed about comments saying no way etc etc, does not interest me. it is huge fun to be able to destroy cars like this with a 19 year old OEM looking 5 door ex 8v GTI


So those who think any more than 200bhp in a mk3 is no good, have either never been in one or been in one that has got a decent set up



Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: tweed on 13 February 2013, 18:01
Would love to drive yours man!!!

But I also killed a sti with a known 333bhp in my 150bhp abf. Not all about power, more about braking and car control. Or lack of grey matter  :grin:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: mrsaunders on 13 February 2013, 18:02


Not arsed about comments saying no way etc etc, does not interest me. it is huge fun to be able to destroy cars like this with a 19 year old OEM looking 5 door ex 8v GTI



i bet thats a good feeling, especially when they think your an easy target  :grin:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: hobbiniho on 13 February 2013, 18:48
yeh iv heard about big figures for a remapped ko4 but i am expecting 260bhp out of mine when i get it mapped, butas long as the power delivery is smoother than it is now any extra power will be a bonus, because right now it is very sudden when it comes on boost, i also need to think about some better tyres as i think its cheap ones that are on it at the moment  :laugh:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: F17BAD on 13 February 2013, 20:45
260 mapped is a good healthy engine and a genuine figure that you should be aiming for  :cool:

trust me it will feel like its got more power if the map is a good one 
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Godzilla on 13 February 2013, 21:33
So interesting you say about beating Scoob's in your MK3 F17BAD. I am sure with your power you will be able to. Mine.....Well the lad who sold it to me said it was a Scooby/Evo killer and was a waste of time even going against them, he said to try for the 911 Turbo's!  I have been out in many Scoobs and a couple of Evo's, mine is not as fast as a Jap import Scoob or an Evo.......Maybe along the same as a UK spec Scoob which are 220bhp.

I did see your reply about your tooones mate....Will try and be there!!

Also.....I am doing the same as you, trying to get mine to look as much like a GTI as poss'  :smiley:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: hobbiniho on 13 February 2013, 21:35
yeh tbh its pretty dammed fast as it is, im also not entirely sure who im going to get to map it but thinking to give wallace performance in aberdeen a ring and see, get it set up on the rolling road
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Ess_Three on 14 February 2013, 05:37

you was very lucky and sounds like you had a bad map too

I don't believe I was lucky...I personally know over a dozen S3s/AMK/BAM engined cars running well over 300 lb-ft with no problems...are we all lucky?
Where did this magic 300 lb-ft breaking point come from anyway?

As for my map...bad?
At 275/280 BHP and 330+ lb-ft?
Hmm...

It was spikey, as in a HUGE torque spike to deliberately try to wake up the totally inert chassis of the 8L S3 by forcing the Haldex to dump torque rearwards. And it worked.

The torque delivery I chose would have been virtually undrivable in a FWD car...no matter how good people think their chassis set-up is...but with 4WD, it did what it was supposed to do.
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Len on 14 February 2013, 13:59
Hey Paul how ya going mate!

Quite fast by the look of this car! :grin:

Hi Len  :smiley:

I am well  :smiley:  Back on the Dub scene......Cant keep away for long  :grin:

Car is great fun, spins in 1st, 2nd and 3rd!   Not over keen on suspension though as it is the standard VR6, feels unstable. My VR had coilovers on and they were really good.  This car need a few bits and bobs doing to it. The last stereo install was just brutal! I removed all of the wires etc from the install today. Also battery is mounted in the boot. I took that out and rubbed down the earthing point as it was very weak, getting a nice 14.2v now  :smiley:

Do you still have your Mi-16 Len?


Yes!

Going to be my retirement project! :grin:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: Godzilla on 14 February 2013, 14:48
Hey Paul how ya going mate!

Quite fast by the look of this car! :grin:

Hi Len  :smiley:

I am well  :smiley:  Back on the Dub scene......Cant keep away for long  :grin:

Car is great fun, spins in 1st, 2nd and 3rd!   Not over keen on suspension though as it is the standard VR6, feels unstable. My VR had coilovers on and they were really good.  This car need a few bits and bobs doing to it. The last stereo install was just brutal! I removed all of the wires etc from the install today. Also battery is mounted in the boot. I took that out and rubbed down the earthing point as it was very weak, getting a nice 14.2v now  :smiley:

Do you still have your Mi-16 Len?


Yes!

Going to be my retirement project! :grin:

Excellent!!  I will most probably get shot down in flames for saying this, But.......I still love Pugs!  The Mi-16 was such a great car.  Most of the engines are now in 205's, well I think even now the 205 scene has moved on and have 306 GTI-6 engines in. Mi-16 with the alloy block was just amazing.

Hope Billy and Hannah are well.

Have to meet very soon  :smiley:
Title: Re: I am back, but this time with 280 horses!
Post by: jamiefin on 14 February 2013, 23:27
So interesting you say about beating Scoob's in your MK3 F17BAD. I am sure with your power you will be able to. Mine.....Well the lad who sold it to me said it was a Scooby/Evo killer and was a waste of time even going against them, he said to try for the 911 Turbo's!  I have been out in many Scoobs and a couple of Evo's, mine is not as fast as a Jap import Scoob or an Evo.......Maybe along the same as a UK spec Scoob which are 220bhp.

I did see your reply about your tooones mate....Will try and be there!!

Also.....I am doing the same as you, trying to get mine to look as much like a GTI as poss'  :smiley:

i owned it at the same time as a turbo 2000 with a map exhaust and a few other bits and bobs about 260 bhp and other then off the line the golf would trounce it ive raced the pair of the head to head many a time with out a diff its about getting the power down it take a while to get used to it