GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => The garage => Topic started by: whileoceanasleeps on 08 January 2013, 22:20
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anyone running braided and notice any difference? did some reading and found this quite interesting
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The most widely publicised advantage of braided stainless steel brake lines over conventional rubber hoses is reduced bulging when heavy brake force is applied. David Malkin of Maltech (one of Australia’s largest braided brake line manufacturers) says this results in improved brake response and pedal feel and can reduce stopping distances.
Unfortunately, we have yet to see any documented evidence to support these claims – so we asked Maltech to compare the distortion and bulging of rubber brake hoses and braided stainless hoses using their pressure test machine.
This out-of-car test involves installing the ends of each hose to a dedicated brake pressure test machine. The machine uses a mix of corrosion inhibitor and water to pressurise the inside of the hoses and, typically, the operator uses the machine to identify leaks. However, for our purposes, we used a pair of digital calipers to measure the outer diameter (OD) of the hoses in static and pressurised condition. The bigger the difference, the more the hose expands under pressure.
Note that these tests were conducted with the brake hoses pressurised to 3500 psi, which is considerably more than you’ll generate in a car – David says you might generate 1500 psi pressure in a hard brake application. This means the hoses will expand more in our tests than in a real-world application.
So how did the hoses compare?
Well, the first hose we tested was an old and worn rubber hose (which appears to be the original part from a ’65 Ford Mustang). In static conditions, this hose had an OD of 10.76mm and, when pressurised, it expanded to 11.02mm. An increase of 2.4 percent.
Next, we tested a brand new rubber hose. The new hose had a 10.47mm OD which expanded to 10.65mm when pressurised. An increase of 1.7 percent.
The final test was a new braided steel brake line. In static conditions, the braided line had an OD of 6.45mm and expanded to 6.49mm when pressurised. An increase of less than 1 percent.
So what can we conclude from this?
Well, yes, a braided steel brake line does give less expansion under pressure than a rubber hose - but the margin is extremely small. And keep in mind that these tests were conducted at more than double the pressure you might generate in a real-world situation. So the difference between braided steel and rubber brake hoses is extremely, extremely small...
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The should last longer than rubber so I think they are worth fitting.
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External braiding can fail and trap sh!t and rubbish in the braids which holds moisture and damp around the rubber.
Does look good but is only really a protection for the inner casing and should be changed as soon as it starts to fray (MOT fail?)
A good braided hose which uses steel wire is stiffer so will stress its fittings more than Nylon braid.
In layman's terms the stiffer braids of a high spec hose will give better performance in the application it is driving, but stiff hoses affect movement hence the properly specified pipe/hose VW fit to their cars using something like a 40% safety factor....
It is a bit misleading to suggest it was just an old rubber hose, but the principle of the text is right in relation to "real" conditions during the use of a normal car.
Every little helps but better to upgrade braking components if you want better stopping power.
I do like the look and have run them on a few cars myself :smiley:
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anyone running braided and notice any difference?
So the difference between braided steel and rubber brake hoses is extremely, extremely small...
The pedal 'feel' when you have installed braided hoses is dramatically different to rubber hoses due to the lack of expansion. Plus don't forget, this test was carried out in Australia where you can't even tell the difference between a Holden and a Ford!!
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And then multiply the result by 4 or 5, as that's typically how many hoses would be fitted to a car! And there you have enough % to make the pedal feel significantly different, ie, shorter travel, firmer pedal, and more responsive feedback, so yes, good quality stainless lines are better, can't vouch for the above manufacturer though!
Thom
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I certainly noticed a positive difference when I installed all my braided hoses :smiley:
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thing they also don't say is that a small increse in diamiter of a pipe has a much larger effect on it's volume. and the volume is inportant as brake master cylinder don't displace that much fluid
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I think people often notice a "dramatic" difference because they're replacing old and (potentially) knackered hoses, and they're also pumping through fresh brake fluid after (how many of us change brake fluid every 2 years as we should?) If they went from fresher hoses, then there might not be such a noticeable difference.
I did put braided hoses on one of mine in the past, but it was so long ago I can't remember how much difference it made, and then only on the front.
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allways run fresh fluid, usally let a good lot bleed through every time change pads
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must admit never noticed any difference when i fitted my braided hoses :sad: just looked better lol