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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: blueseamonkey on 20 November 2012, 12:16

Title: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: blueseamonkey on 20 November 2012, 12:16
Is there a separate place for people who've done something really stupid and need to ask if it can be fixed? If so please move this post there.  :embarrassed:

As I mentioned in a previous post some months ago, I had snapped off one of the bolts attaching the water pump to the block. In the end I decided to try drilling it out rather than welding something on the end - a big mistake as it turned out...
Someone distracted me a bit as I was drilling a pilot hole and I ended up going too deep - probably about 0.5cm, possibly as much 1cm. At the time I was hopeful I hadn't caused too much damage, but earlier today when I finally got the car started again, oil started to pump out of the hole at rapid rate.  :sick:

I've obviously drilled into something I shouldn't have. I will attach a picture with a red arrow pointing out the area of the problem. I am feeling monumentally stupid and know I have potentially cost myself a fortune. The question is, is it worth me taking the block to a machine shop to try and get it repaired? Not so much costwise - labour is very cheap here and machine shops plentiful and fairly competent. But can the damage I have caused be fixed at all, or is the block likely to be permanently buggered? The hole I drilled stayed straight, despite going too far.

Its also worth bearing in mind Golfs - especially Mk2s, are very rare here, so finding a new block is not going to be a case of just going to the nearest scrapyard. If the damage I've caused really is irreparable, then it could potentially end up with me having to put a Japanese engine in as there's probably only a couple of hundred Golfs in the whole country.

Some good news would be nice, but if it really is bad news for my block, has anyone put a Japanese engine in a Mk2, or know what fits?

Here's the pic

(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t480/blueseamonkey/Hole.jpg)
Title: Re: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: Jimmyrallye on 20 November 2012, 12:25
How big wos the pilot hole ? Could you just not weld over the hole
Title: Re: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: molegti on 20 November 2012, 12:37
I would have thought that could be fixed by a machine shop. I wouldn't make financial sense here but if blocks are that rare it probably worthwhile. 
Title: Re: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: molegti on 20 November 2012, 12:40
Thinking about it I wonder if PTFE tape around the bolt threads might work?
Title: Re: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: oakgreener on 20 November 2012, 13:48
Could you use a bolt long enough to bottom out onto the hole?
Then cut the hex off and fit a nut. I know it's in the realms of bodgery but, 'when in the trenches'
Title: Re: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: Chris. on 20 November 2012, 20:35
Cover the bolt in silicone for sumps and leave it overnight.  Hope it works.
Title: Re: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: JC on 20 November 2012, 20:54
whatever option you take - remember, you have drilled into something in the engine, be it a basic oilway / return

Swarf will have entered into the oil - so dont run it until you have plugged the leak, and done a full oil n filter change

then PRAY  :grin:
Title: Re: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: Agreeable Slick on 20 November 2012, 21:18
It sounds like an oilway, and as such will pressurise when the engine is running.

The PTFE will work, for a while, but will blow again. Best option is to either get the hole welded up and then re-drilled tapped, or see if the machinist can turn a plug up, but I'd prefer the first option.
Title: Re: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: Diamond Hell on 20 November 2012, 23:20
It might be an oil return, in which case it wouldn't pressurise and all could be gravy.
Title: Re: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: danny_p on 21 November 2012, 00:26
welding in blocks is not allways a good idea,  in this case iu would not reccomend it.

basicly you've hit an oil way if it's leacking in quite an enthusiastic manner it's a pressurised one.  bepending on how much block there is between oil way and whre ethe bottom of the hole should be you have 2 choices.

option 1 )tap the hole,  then cover a grub screw in oil resistant loctite and wind it but not so far as to obstruct the oil way.  this it probaly the best solution but also the most involved  as you will have to wash the oil ways out after and will take more effort to do and do so correctly.

option 2 )  cover waterpump bolt in oil resitant  loctite  do bolt up as per normal and job done.  hope no big bits of swarf found there way into the oilway.  downside is  will need to rember this and possobly heat the bolt ( to soften loctite ) if ever need to change waterpump again but it can be consited a permant fix, unlike ptfe or sillicone.

i'd be recomending loctite 243 

this would do you
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Loctite-243-Lock-n-Seal-Thread-Sealant-3ml-Fast-Acting-Secure-Nuts-Bolts-Screws-/251089040081?pt=UK_Crafts_Cardmaking_Scrapbooking_Glue_Tape_EH&hash=item3a7612b2d1
Title: Re: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: oakgreener on 21 November 2012, 14:49
As long as you haven't drilled the hole between the oil way and the outside world too big :whistle:
one other option would be to plug the hole with a taper pin. Bearing all the other precaution in mind
Title: Re: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: VW BUSH on 22 November 2012, 20:12
welding in blocks is not allways a good idea,  in this case iu would not reccomend it.

basicly you've hit an oil way if it's leacking in quite an enthusiastic manner it's a pressurised one.  bepending on how much block there is between oil way and whre ethe bottom of the hole should be you have 2 choices.

option 1 )tap the hole,  then cover a grub screw in oil resistant loctite and wind it but not so far as to obstruct the oil way.  this it probaly the best solution but also the most involved  as you will have to wash the oil ways out after and will take more effort to do and do so correctly.

option 2 )  cover waterpump bolt in oil resitant  loctite  do bolt up as per normal and job done.  hope no big bits of swarf found there way into the oilway.  downside is  will need to rember this and possobly heat the bolt ( to soften loctite ) if ever need to change waterpump again but it can be consited a permant fix, unlike ptfe or sillicone.

i'd be recomending loctite 243 

this would do you
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Loctite-243-Lock-n-Seal-Thread-Sealant-3ml-Fast-Acting-Secure-Nuts-Bolts-Screws-/251089040081?pt=UK_Crafts_Cardmaking_Scrapbooking_Glue_Tape_EH&hash=item3a7612b2d1


Spot on.

I would recommend you drain the oil out and fully degrease the area and bolt with FE10 or the likes of, then use plenty of the said loctite.

If this does not work then its not the end of the world, there are a number of ways to fix this without to much bother.

I allways use a left handed drill when drilling out studs, 9 times out of 10 it unwinds when you get into it
Title: Re: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: Cory on 30 November 2012, 02:51
when i had two plugged injector ports blow out on my head, the RAC man gave me something called quiksteel i think, to re-plug the holes with. i was a bit jubilant as first, as it looks like play dough, but it couldnt have worked any better if i had wanted it to. just a suggestion . . .
Title: Re: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: blueseamonkey on 12 December 2012, 01:38
Thanks for all the tips. I lost internet connection for a couple of weeks, hence no reply until now. I finally found a machine shop man who was willing to come out and have a look, (they are quite reluctant to leave the comfort of their shops!) He retapped the thread this morning (the old thread was damaged, explaining why quite so much oil was able to come out.)
I will give the hole a good clean out, change the oil and filter and then see if I can track down any of that thread sealant stuff. The man from the machine shop seemed to think it would work.
I am moderately hopeful that any big bits of swarf might have been expelled by the pressurised oil when it spurted out, rather than going in to the engine, though of course a few more will have been made when the hole was retapped.
Title: Re: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: blueseamonkey on 12 December 2012, 05:03
Found some thread sealant, not the Loctite mentioned, but it looks like it should do the job. Its the bottom product on this page

http://www.hardexworld.com/products/threadlock-cyanoarcyclic.aspx (http://www.hardexworld.com/products/threadlock-cyanoarcyclic.aspx)

Possibly even a little OTT for this job, but I'd rather go too strong and need help from the machine shop again to remove it rather than not strong enough and have it blow out on me. Once the newly fabricated bolt comes back I shall fit it, then change the oil & filter. The new bolt is just a threaded rod anyway, just with 2 different threads now, so there's no real reason I'd have to remove it, even for replacing the water pump again - unless the thread gets damaged.

I spent days trying to find a left-handed drill bit before I worked on this (and buggered it up!) seems they do not exist in the Philippines, even the largest hardware shops didn't have them. I'll have to order one from the UK or elsewhere for next time.

Title: Re: Have I destroyed my engine block?
Post by: VW BUSH on 12 December 2012, 21:52
http://www.mscdirect.co.uk/IRW-11119J/SEARCH:KEYWORD/product.html
http://www.mscdirect.co.uk/CGI/INPDFF?PMCTLG=00&PMPAGE=175&PMITEM=IRW-11119J
http://www.mscdirect.co.uk/DJG-00237M/SEARCH:KEYWORD/product.html

Drill porn
http://www.mscdirect.co.uk/CGI/INPDFF?PMCTLG=00&PMPAGE=143&PMITEM=BAS-00209E


Careful with extractors they are evil in noob hands :wink: