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General => General discussion => Topic started by: DubFan on 05 November 2012, 04:59

Title: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: DubFan on 05 November 2012, 04:59
I'm looking at getting a smaller car. Obviously Golfs are my first choice, but given a £3k budget (and a learner driver), it'll have to be a non-GTI model. Also need to be 5dr, manual and petrol.

So I'm looking at:
Mk4 Golf 1.6 16v
Mk4 Golf 2.0 8v (fake GTI)
Mk5 Golf 1.6 FSI
Mk5 Golf 2.0 FSI (not easy to find in budget)

Or, I could look at Audi A3s.
A3 1.6 8v (older model)
A3 1.6 FSI (2004 + model)

Looked at Seat Leons, but not a fan of the looks.

So what do people think?
I already have a Skoda Octavia with the 1.6 FSI engine in it, so I'm used to that level of power. Yes I'd love GTI, but budget is strict and most GTIs in that budget would be dogs.

I think my best options are the Mk4 1.6 16v or the Mk4 2.0 8v (fake GTI, surely it should have been called the Driver?), or if I could find one, a Mk5 1.6 FSI.
Obviously I'd like the newest, lowest mileage car I could find, but what would be best?

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: Toby on 05 November 2012, 06:50
Mk4 golf 1.8t! A real gti! And with £3000 you will get a decent one!!

Or bora!, passat! Audi a4
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: leigh_harty on 05 November 2012, 07:31
Any reason why your not looking at a mk4 sdi? cracking car for the learner and should want for nothing
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: CM690 on 05 November 2012, 09:13
Any reason why your not looking at a mk4 sdi? cracking car for the learner and should want for nothing

I've always been heavily put off by the SDI models, they return decent MPG estimated 53MPG by VW, which is good but you have to sacrifice several things for that fuel economy. They are hideously slow, 0-60 you're looking at 16 seconds,  low top speed of just under 100mph which I feel would probably be running out of puff at the national speed limit of 70mph.

I believe they are only 70bhp too with just under 100 lb-ft of torque. That's just the engine, then there are the trim disadvantages, VW only made the SDI model available in the 'E' level. I don't have that much knowledge on trim package E but I'm sure they had very little extras. Manual door mirrors(?), manual windows and no A/C etc.

I would never recommend an SDI to anyone really if you had that kind of money, even for a learner the 1.4/1.6 would be better providing insurance isn't an issue.

Compare this to a 1.6 16v MK4, they came in various levels of trim and I'm sure you could pick up an SE model for that money. The MPG is of course lower at 35MPG (est.) but you'll have a much perkier engine with 105bhp and 109 lb-ft of torque which will more than happily cruise on the motorways and not feel out of it's comfort zone. 0-60 is significantly faster at 10.5 seconds and the top speed is 120mph so it will be more than capable.

The SE models came with a lot more extras, my SE 1.6 8v has electric mirrors, A/C (or a sunroof), heated door mirrors, electric windows front and back (while some cars of similar spec have electric front and manual back), the trip computer with multiple functions and usually alloy wheels (though not an issue).

I do know that the MK4 1.6 8v's have weak gearbox issues, I've owned mine since July this year (76k miles) and haven't had any problems yet though the gear changes are a little stiff sometimes. I would stay clear of an 8v MK4 and possibly the 8v Audi A3 as well though I'm unsure if they had the same issues, sure someone can clear that up for you.

Another model to consider is the 1.9 TDI SE MK4 which has the MPG of the SDI (53mpg) and pretty similar performance to the 1.6 16v.

 :smiley:
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: Diamond Hell on 05 November 2012, 09:41
I've had the mis-fortune of driving an SDI badged car.

Don't do it.

Why does it have to be petrol?  Why not a TDI?  :huh:
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: DubFan on 05 November 2012, 11:50
I've never driven a diesel that I liked, I don't like the noise for one. And I keep hearing about turbos going.
Definitely no to an SDI too.
And I don't do enough miles to make it work out cheaper on fuel. I do about 7k miles a year.

It needs to be a hatchback, because my learner wife finds the estates too big and we no longer need an enormous boot for carrying a big buggy/pram.
I had already considered Passats and A4s but discounted them for that reason.

I have spotted some Mk4 1.8T GTIs, but a) they mostly seem to be high mileage and b) the insurance will be too much.
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: F17BAD on 05 November 2012, 11:54
Why look at 1.8t if you are scared about turbos going

Tbh it's only the crap mk5 that has a dodgey blower on one of the models ( can't remember the engine code but its BK?? Something or other )

Would avoid the 2.0 engines found in mk4s etc.. Really poor engine
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: DubFan on 05 November 2012, 12:27
Why look at 1.8t if you are scared about turbos going

Tbh it's only the crap mk5 that has a dodgey blower on one of the models ( can't remember the engine code but its BK?? Something or other )

Would avoid the 2.0 engines found in mk4s etc.. Really poor engine

I'm not looking for a 1.8T, I've spotted them when searching on autotrader and the like, but I wouldn't really consider them.

Isn't the 2.0 8v petrol engine in the Mk4 basically the same as the 2.0 8v in the Mk3 GTI ?
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: Bellend on 05 November 2012, 12:28
I have an SDI.

The other day I timed over 20 seconds to get to 60. Very slight incline. It won't do more than 70 on some hills on the motorway on diesel.

However, put veg oil in it and once warmed up it will do 80 on the hills and is a bit more torquey.

It's slow as hell, has nothing on it, no electric anything, loud and annoying engine.

BUT it costs ME just under 600 quid to insure, it returns 65MPG no matter how you drive it, I throw neat veg oil in it and starts in the minus after a few turns.

I'm going to buy an inline fuel heater so it thins the veg and possibly a small diesel tank to purge the lines out.

It annoyed the hell out of me at first, but TBH boring work journeys, it costs me next to nothing to run and I've got a TDI Passat for everything else.

For a learner, could be okay. DOESN'T keep up with a 1l Micra round town but it's alright on the motorway once you get used to it. Tops out at 110 on the gauge down a STEEP hill, on a straight you're looking at 90. :grin:
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: mcgee9t2 on 05 November 2012, 12:33
looked at the mk4 1.8n/a

i got one as my first car.

faster than the 2.0, uses less oil, slightly better economy, always a winner in my books if you cant afford a 1.8t.


also might be one up for sale soon  :evil: :grin:
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: Diamond Hell on 05 November 2012, 13:59
I've never driven a diesel that I liked, I don't like the noise for one. And I keep hearing about turbos going.
Definitely no to an SDI too.

Given the number of TDIs out there the odd turbo will let go.  You should probably discount this as an issue and maybe drive a few more TDIs?

And I don't do enough miles to make it work out cheaper on fuel. I do about 7k miles a year.

You need to work on your maths: petrol at 35MPG vs diesel at 50MPG, using current fuel prices, on 7k per year:

140 gallons of diesel at 1.389 per litre = £875
200 gallons of petrol at 1.329 per litre = £1196

I make that a saving of around £320 per year.

Just in case you're wrestling with the above maths - you'd spend £320 less per year on fuel running a TDI.

Always wondered why people bought those hideous 1.6 and 2.0 petrol Octavias and the like.  Now I understand. (http://www.northloop.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/loser.gif)
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: F17BAD on 05 November 2012, 17:37


Isn't the 2.0 8v petrol engine in the Mk4 basically the same as the 2.0 8v in the Mk3 GTI ?

its different mate

loads of issues with them too hence why they use a load of oil. VW know about the fault but wont admit to it

my dad had one from new and the engine had to be replaced twice, the reason it was using oil was down to piston ring issues
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: DubFan on 05 November 2012, 18:46
I know about maths mate.
I tend to get about 40mpg out of my petrol 1.6 FSI. Which is decent enough.

When I was looking for the last car a lot of the diesels were ex company cars with high miles, and I wanted a lower mileage example. Diesel models also seemed to be more expensive.

I admit to not knowing so much about diesels, so I'm geniunely interested in an answer, is there truth in the idea that diesels only get maximum fuel efficency on a long run? So a 3-4 mile trip won't be very efficient.
(I'm waiting for DH to point out that petrol engines are the same  :wink: )

I would probably consider a TDI, if I could get over a hang up that they're noisy, smelly and give off fumes that are worse for humans than petrol fumes (too much Daily Mail I think).

Someone want to lend me a TDI and prove me wrong?
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: Wayne on 06 November 2012, 13:05
Another choice if you can find one is a mk4 1.8 20v non turbo, I would avoid the 2.0 at all costs.
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: mcgee9t2 on 06 November 2012, 14:03
Another choice if you can find one is a mk4 1.8 20v non turbo, I would avoid the 2.0 at all costs.

anybody know how long these were made for? only seen them up to s reg like mine. also anyone know why they stoped making these over the 2.0 8v
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: gixer1400 on 23 November 2012, 22:10
if your still looking what about this little beauty  :cool:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volkswagen-Golf-Mk2-1-6-CL-5-door-One-owner-from-new-17k-miles-/251180634225?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3a7b885071
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: whileoceanasleeps on 25 November 2012, 11:09
that is mint! shame it's not a gti tho :)
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: danny_p on 26 November 2012, 00:32
the 1.8 20v is a f**king awfull engine, souless boreing thing to drive   they seem to die as well.

the 2.0 8v dies if your nice to it.   if you try and kill it  and i mean utter neglect and thrashings  they get fitter and stop useing oil. 

driveing 50 miles with the oil light flashing and a hole in the sump sorts it tho,  quite inpressed it got me home,  chouldn't get it to start to move it out the way next day tho so a digger said hello to it
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: Diamond Hell on 26 November 2012, 10:09
Someone want to lend me a TDI and prove me wrong?

I have a Golf3 TDI here you're welcome to try out.  :grin:

Won't do less than 49MPG.  It won't cure your notion that they're noisy though.

Caning the hell out of my parent's Leon 140TDI only got it down to just under 40MPG and I know they were seeing around 55MPG when driving it lightly.

I think your view of diesels only being good on longer runs is probably rather out-dated, since about the mid-90s.  :grin:
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: Diamond Hell on 26 November 2012, 10:38
(too much Daily Mail I think).

Let me help you with your reading decision-making process for the future:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A8nor03CIAAh_Tf.jpg)
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: DubFan on 26 November 2012, 12:10
(too much Daily Mail I think).

Let me help you with your reading decision-making process for the future:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A8nor03CIAAh_Tf.jpg)

Just to make it clear, I don't read the Daily Mail, it's just the view expressed was such that it seemed to fit a Daily Mail article.

So that's the sarcasm out of the way. Anything useful to add?

Opinions on petrol OR diesel non-GTIs of the Mk4 era ?
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: Diamond Hell on 26 November 2012, 12:38
Old shape TDI Leon 130PD and a chat with Rhyso.  £3-4k and you'll be in something with 60-80k on the clock.

Do it.
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: thai-wronghorse on 10 December 2012, 09:33
Old shape TDI Leon 130PD and a chat with Rhyso.  £3-4k and you'll be in something with 60-80k on the clock.

Do it.

Sounds very favourable to me,  infact an option im considering next.
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: mcgee9t2 on 10 December 2012, 22:13
My mk4 1.8n/a is now up for sale incase your interested  :wink:
Title: Re: Non-GTI Golfs - what's the best option?
Post by: dTEA on 27 December 2012, 04:46
Well. If there is no real option of the 1.8T then the TDI wins on the performance and fuel economy. Insurance won't break the bank and tax is still sub £140. The short 3-4 mile journeys inthe other half's TDI gets around 45mpg and on long journeys you get a long long way from home and still not need to refill Ie Manchester to Le Mans and a couple of laps of the town as we got lost before bedding down for the night!!

Only hard bit with the diesel is getting used to the small power band but as DH has said even thrashing em you return good MPG compared with a petrol. Watch for master cylinder issues. CV joints ain't always great and the usual research on other common faults in the MK4 section.

did they bot do the SEAT Leon 1.8T in non Cupra trim? Or was that just the 1.8 20v that McGee is on about in his mk4?