GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: MS1COYS on 02 November 2012, 16:13
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I've had a multitude of advice from Bacillus over the following topic, but would also appreciate all of your opinions on high pressure fuel pumps.
I've been toying with the idea of WMI, HPFP or uprating the turbo on my MKV Gti for about 4 or 5 months now. I've ruled out the turbo, because I'm not prepared to skyrocket towards the 400bhp mark, as a whole host of other work will require doing to make sure that the car has sufficient traction to utilise the power, meaning costs in the thousands!
I'm also a tad wary of WMI, not just because of the £1000+ material and set up costs, but again for just the general idea of increasing bhp by a further 30bhp+ on a 300bhp car that currently just about manages to cope with getting it's power down as it is.
The one thing I'm really interested in is a HPFP, in order to increase mid range torque. At the minute my car is running about 270lbft and I would like to realise between 300-315lbft from 3,000rpm to 5,500rpm. As I understand, this is more than possible with a HPFP and a custom map to tweak the fuel and boost.
One thing I suppose I would like to try and learn is how much can I realistically expect to 'shell out' for a half decent HPFP? And at the same time I don't really want to spend a further £300 on a custom map if I can help it.
Can anyone advise?
Thanks in advance for reading my babble.
:smiley:
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why not fit a better turbo and just have it mapped to deliver the power how you want it
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why not fit a better turbo and just have it mapped to deliver the power how you want it
For the reason I stated above (cost) and because my car will struggle with traction. Mid range torque however, can be achieved with a HPFP and that's what I'm after. In a certain rev range, where the car can easily cope with the power without sacrificing traction.
:smiley:
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Sounds like you have already made your mind up.
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Sounds like you have already made your mind up.
Yes I have already made my mind up. Like I said in my original post, quoted below...
I've ruled out the turbo, because I'm not prepared to skyrocket towards the 400bhp mark, as a whole host of other work will require doing to make sure that the car has sufficient traction to utilise the power, meaning costs in the thousands!
I'm also a tad wary of WMI, not just because of the £1000+ material and set up costs, but again for just the general idea of increasing bhp by a further 30bhp+ on a 300bhp car that currently just about manages to cope with getting it's power down as it is.
The one thing I'm really interested in is a HPFP........
What I'm asking for is a contribution from people to offer advice and opinions on HPFP's.
:smiley:
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if you have allready decided there is littel point offering advice or opinion
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if you have allready decided there is littel point offering advice or opinion
I don't know whether or not I've phrased the question in a different language or something, but all I'm after is advice on HPFP's. There are numerous pumps on the market and I want to know what people think of them.
I included in my original post that I wasn't interested in WMI or an uprated turbo, so that people didn't keep posting saying "don't bother with a HPFP, just get a bigger turbo or WMI".
I then re-iterated again in my last post to 'tweed'...
I've ruled out the turbo, because I'm not prepared to skyrocket towards the 400bhp mark, as a whole host of other work will require doing to make sure that the car has sufficient traction to utilise the power, meaning costs in the thousands!
I'm also a tad wary of WMI, not just because of the £1000+ material and set up costs, but again for just the general idea of increasing bhp by a further 30bhp+ on a 300bhp car that currently just about manages to cope with getting it's power down as it is.
The one thing I'm really interested in is a HPFP........
What I'm asking for is a contribution from people to offer advice and opinions on HPFP's and HPFP's only
:smiley:
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i agree with what danny has said
better turbo, mapped correct and then add a diff
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i agree with what danny has said
better turbo, mapped correct and then add a diff
f**k me it seems I can't get my point across efficiently enough. I'm not going to uprate the turbo. I'm not going to get WMI. I am going to get a HPFP, because all I want is extra mid range torque..... :rolleyes:
I don't want bundles of extra horsepower, because it just simply won't be usable, especially not where I live. I did say all this in my original post and pretty much every post since. Hopefully this doesn't become a recurring theme :whistle:
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i agree with what danny has said
better turbo, mapped correct and then add a diff
f**k me it seems I can't get my point across efficiently enough. I'm not going to uprate the turbo. I'm not going to get WMI. I am going to get a HPFP, because all I want is extra mid range torque..... :rolleyes:
I don't want bundles of extra horsepower, because it just simply won't be usable, especially not where I live. I did say all this in my original post and pretty much every post since. Hopefully this doesn't become a recurring theme :whistle:
I think that the point the others are trying to make is that if you were to uprate the turbo or add water meth then you could get it mapped to your needs, i.e. no extra power but an increase in mid-range torque.
I know nothing about HPFP's so cannot help with that, although I'd like to know who quoted you £1000 for a WMI kit?
Even the most expensive Devil's Own kit is just over £300....
http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=9f408d9f052e71106ddbdccd0ec3e7a3 (http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=9f408d9f052e71106ddbdccd0ec3e7a3)
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i agree with what danny has said
better turbo, mapped correct and then add a diff
f**k me it seems I can't get my point across efficiently enough. I'm not going to uprate the turbo. I'm not going to get WMI. I am going to get a HPFP, because all I want is extra mid range torque..... :rolleyes:
I don't want bundles of extra horsepower, because it just simply won't be usable, especially not where I live. I did say all this in my original post and pretty much every post since. Hopefully this doesn't become a recurring theme :whistle:
I think that the point the others are trying to make is that if you were to uprate the turbo or add water meth then you could get it mapped to your needs, i.e. no extra power but an increase in mid-range torque.
I know nothing about HPFP's so cannot help with that, although I'd like to know who quoted you £1000 for a WMI kit?
Even the most expensive Devil's Own kit is just over £300....
http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=9f408d9f052e71106ddbdccd0ec3e7a3 (http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=9f408d9f052e71106ddbdccd0ec3e7a3)
I know exactly what the others are trying to say Dom, but it's not what I want to do.
I simply want an increase in mid range torque, something which I've been told is easily achievable with a HPFP. I don't want to spend mega money on a turbo upgrade, differential and alike or a WMI kit just to increase mid range torque. After all a custom map alone is going to cost £200+ on top of what ever else is required to install a bigger turbo and/or WMI and the accompanying components.
And let's be honest if anyone was going to go to the trouble of spending big on WMI or a turbo, then who could resist the extra bhp. :drool:
I've been quoted (including installation) anywhere between £750 and £1050 to set up WMI from three separate garages. I believe they were quoting to use Snow something or other, Aquamist and Devil's Own. It's certainly not the sort of thing I could do myself that's for sure :embarrassed:
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Don't reply to every post like a nobber, when people are giving suggestions and you might get some better responses. Just a suggestion.
Unfortunately, as people have already stated, it's easier (and cheaper) to get it mapped properly. However to perhaps help your question be answered here goes, changing fuel pump can mean re setting fuel pressure regulators, ensuring that the fuel system is spec'd to cope with it (rail pressure sensor, PRV, return to tank) otherwise it will over supply the engine and return to tank to often, picking up heat and can affect octane rating on fuel if you heat it too much. Also if it is cam driven and not electric then it will wear the lobes out quicker, and will also mean you need to accept that you will need change oil more often to provide more protection with the possible chance of replacing followers and maybe even the camshaft.
If you are going to do it, then I hope you have deep pockets, and the one I would be looking at is the APR kit. Adding torque invariably means adding horse power though, so out of interest if you can't use it why are you looking at this expensive option? It would be better to concentrate on putting the torque down properly through a LSD or similar before going through with this option.....
FYI: http://www.goapr.com/products/fsi_fuel_pump.html
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:nerd:
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Don't reply to every post like a nobber, when people are giving suggestions and you might get some better responses. Just a suggestion.
Unfortunately, as people have already stated, it's easier (and cheaper) to get it mapped properly. However to perhaps help your question be answered here goes, changing fuel pump can mean re setting fuel pressure regulators, ensuring that the fuel system is spec'd to cope with it (rail pressure sensor, PRV, return to tank) otherwise it will over supply the engine and return to tank to often, picking up heat and can affect octane rating on fuel if you heat it too much. Also if it is cam driven and not electric then it will wear the lobes out quicker, and will also mean you need to accept that you will need change oil more often to provide more protection with the possible chance of replacing followers and maybe even the camshaft.
If you are going to do it, then I hope you have deep pockets, and the one I would be looking at is the APR kit. Adding torque invariably means adding horse power though, so out of interest if you can't use it why are you looking at this expensive option? It would be better to concentrate on putting the torque down properly through a LSD or similar before going through with this option.....
Cheers for the informative post, this is the sort of information that I am looking for. Maybe I have been mis-led or misunderstood what I can expect from a HPFP and tweaked map. I was under the impression that with the other mods I have in place, that a HPFP was kind of a necessity to get the most out of mid range torque, whilst keeping bhp at the same level. Because probably the standard 'Hitachi' VW FP wasn't up to the job. I understand I could buy an APR pump for between £500-£700, although admittedly hadn't anticipated spending much more than £350-450 to be honest.
As the car stands at the minute with 270lbft, traction isn't an issue (in the dry) and in fact as previously stated, once I'm in the mid range, the 'pull' could be greater. It is the only real area where I feel like my car's power band lacks a little. So there's no need for a LSD and as I understand it a decent set up would cost in excess of £1200. I have already had a custom map and know that I am eeking the most out of a ko3 turbo as it is.
Are you suggesting that a different map/mapper could get me the mid range torque that I desire, without the need for extra modifications and at a cheaper cost than a HPFP?
When I spoke to a couple of forum members they both suggested that a HPFP would be the perfect addition to give me exactly what I'm looking for.
I'm definitely not going to get a uprated turbo, but maybe if what you're suggesting is true, then WMI is a more viable option?
I'm sorry you felt as though I replied to every poster like a 'nobber'. But to be honest If you read my original post I thought it was pretty clear what I was after, ie; HPFP and I don't feel like I could have put my point across any in any other way.
So quotes like...
why not fit a better turbo and just have it mapped to deliver the power how you want it
and
Sounds like you have already made your mind up.
and
if you have allready decided there is littel point offering advice or opinion
and
i agree with what danny has said
better turbo, mapped correct and then add a diff
And whilst I appreciate everyone has their own opinion and probably know far more than I do. The comments weren't really much help, as I was after advice on HPFP's, because that's what I had been informed was the correct way to go and because a turbo, map, WMI and/or LSD would mean spending thousands, something which I said in my original post was not an option.
:smiley:
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And whilst I appreciate everyone has their own opinion and probably know far more than I do. The comments weren't really much help, as I was after advice on HPFP's, because that's what I had been informed was the correct way to go and because a turbo, map, WMI and/or LSD would mean spending thousands, something which I said in my original post was not an option.
:smiley:
cos you chosen path will be even more expensive and problematic :grin: :laugh: hence they gave the advice they did (http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp359/chuffs69/sofa.gif)
and as with all open forums, expect good and bad advice, positive and negative feedback etc :kiss:
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And whilst I appreciate everyone has their own opinion and probably know far more than I do. The comments weren't really much help, as I was after advice on HPFP's, because that's what I had been informed was the correct way to go and because a turbo, map, WMI and/or LSD would mean spending thousands, something which I said in my original post was not an option.
:smiley:
cos you chosen path will be even more expensive and problematic :grin: :laugh: hence they gave the advice they did (http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp359/chuffs69/sofa.gif)
and as with all open forums, expect good and bad advice, positive and negative feedback etc :kiss:
I take all of that on board and I don't mind negative feedback or sh!t advice. :grin: I was going on the advice of two pretty well informed 'modders' on this site who themselves have been down this route with both of the cars/various cars.
As a point of interest if I upgraded the turbo and had another custom map, wouldn't it become a necessity to upgrade the fuel pump also? :undecided: