GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: berry9112 on 02 October 2012, 08:46
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Hi guys,
Iv had a nightmare of a weekend. Started with the simple job of replacing lower arms. Ending with the front bolt snapping in the subframe and from there i have tried everything. Heli coil was going well until a 7mm drill bit hit a snag and snapped of the last 5mm of the bit....in the hole!
So, a good family friend is a vag technician and said he can cut the box section put a nut there and weld it in place. I need this car back on the road, and that sounds like a long way round. Has anyone got a gti subframe thats near surrey!? And mainly is there a guide to dropping the subframe leaving the engine in situ?
Iv a rough idea on what im doing but would rather see for certain first.
Seriously appreciate anyone that can help
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So knowone has removed a subframe before :huh: someone must know the level of difficulty involved? Volkswagon workshop manual is useless
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I dont think anybody has attempted to take out the subframe and leave the engine in place!
In theory it should be possible with and engine beam over the top, with engine secured to it is several places and maybe a jack or axle stand under the diff or gearbox or both.
But pure guesswork on my part.
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In theory all you would need is an engine crane to support the engine and box but you'd have to have the front up on stands to get at the s/frame and still have access to the motor, the easiest way seems to be to take the front of the car off, bumper/slam panel but then you might just as well yank the motor out as well.
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I had a similar problem but i just heated the sh!t out the bolt and used some vice grips it was a bastard but in the end it worked.... Heat it till its glowing almost white!
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support the engine in the relevant places, undo rear engine mount and gearbox mount, undo the 3 13mm bolts that hold the rack to the frame, they will likely spin so you will need a 13mm spanner to hold the nuts on the rack side of the frame, undo the 3 13mm bolts on the wishbones and wiggle the ball joint out of the subframe, if you have a rod change box you will need to undo the 3 13mm bolts holding the rod assembly to the frame, if you are on cable change VR/ABF i think the brackets on the box so no issues there, now you should be ready to undo the frame bolts, from memory there's either 3 or 4 on either side, you will find 1 per side that is just below the ARB toward the back of the car, this is for the arb bushes, they should be able to be left in as the drop links are attached to the wishbones and the bushes to the frame, without looking at one i can't picture it properly but i'm sure it can stay on and be dropped fitted as nothing gets in the way
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Cheers guys. The cars already on stands and everything with one lower arm removed and the other still there because i got annoyed with said bolt. It snapped flush with the subframe so couldnt get mole grips or anything round it.
Last post seems fairly spot on. Cheers for the heads up guys
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i think i must have dropped at least 40 subframes off mk2's and 3's over the years :grin:
never had to do it with the engine in but it shouldn't be too hard as long as the engine's supported
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So,you cant use an impact driver to remove broken bolt,even if it was sheared level?
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The last 8mm or so of it snapped inside the subframe. No way of getting it out, unless you drill it and re tap. Or drill it, cut the box section in half weld a nut on the back, and then weld the box section back over the top. Trust me, iv tried everything but the welding part.
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with the frame out theres various types of stud extractor you can use
http://www.samstagsales.com/images/klann0181-3x.jpg
http://images.drillspot.com/pimages/2580/258031_300.jpg
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/76009-76.jpg
http://www.workshopsupplies.co.uk/contents/media/irbg%20closeup.jpg
or with the frame in situ theres the easy outs
http://cdn.houserepairtalk.com/attachments/f33/2979d1313072552-need-extractor-tool-help-ez-out.jpg
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Iv tried extractors (snap on one) and it didnt work, its really seized. And the stud extractor wont work as it has snapped IN the frame.
Heres a picture...
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q535/berry9112/20120928_172344.jpg)
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ahh yeh, my apologies, i forgot this was a wishbone bolt, all the talk of subframes i got the main frame bolts in my head lol
yeh, frame off and sorted by your mate i think is the best bet, i have a spare mk4 frame but would cost a bit to post
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I have a sub frame but in Mk any good
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yeh where are you based btw?
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Im based in Surrey, Redhill area. Waiting on a guy from E38 to get back to me, was sposed to have it yesterday but hes let me down so far. Everythings off the car waiting for a new frame. MK is a bit far from me sorry bud :undecided: anyone a tad loser and ill pick up tonight/tomorrow??
Thanks for all the help
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i can box it and courier it to you at cost to you obviously, i just had some mk2 hubs, discs, calipers, carriers and 2 drive shafts couriered for £10, that was a 30KG package, if you get stuck gimme a shout and i'll strip this frame down and weigh it for you
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Oh dear your going to go through all that trouble it seems for nothing,a guy previously mentioned Heat,that is exactly what you need if you heat it well enough it will come out like piss with a welded piece of steel at the end.you should rent yourself a mig welder and some oxy/acy cylinders.
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If you read previous post's you will see what i have tried. Iv heated it up until it was glowing...it doesnt budge. And welding a rod on the end? when the end of the bolt has snapped IN the frame? Can quite clearly see there is a 2mm or so lip before the thread starts, you wont weld anything on there without welding it to the frame itself. To me that sounds like hassle.
Took me about 45 minutes to drop the subframe out and £40 for a new subframe delivered to my door. Not to mention i cant weld. £40 and about 2 hours of my time to fit a new one is better then pissing about with welders and setting stuff on fire.
Miggs, i got one arriving tomorrow. Appreciate the help though bud.
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OMG are you crazy :shocked: The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire we don`t need no water let the :whistle:
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Yes it is possible to replace the subframe and leave the engine in, just hang it from a beam or engine crane.
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If you read previous post's you will see what i have tried. Iv heated it up until it was glowing...it doesnt budge. And welding a rod on the end? when the end of the bolt has snapped IN the frame? Can quite clearly see there is a 2mm or so lip before the thread starts, you wont weld anything on there without welding it to the frame itself. To me that sounds like hassle.
Took me about 45 minutes to drop the subframe out and £40 for a new subframe delivered to my door. Not to mention i cant weld. £40 and about 2 hours of my time to fit a new one is better then pissing about with welders and setting stuff on fire.
Miggs, i got one arriving tomorrow. Appreciate the help though bud.
no worries pal, i stripped it anyway so i thank you for making me get off my arse and finish stripping this mk3 lol