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Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: brewey on 21 September 2012, 07:47

Title: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 21 September 2012, 07:47
Wednesday morning started the car, just like normal first turn of the key burst to life , pulled away about 50meters and it was like a bag of spanners had been thrown in there. Pulled up and left it on my girlfriends drive, went about my business on the train instead.

Then when me and my dad got around to having a look on the night it won't turn over as if something is stopping it.

It's come as quite a surprise (albeit a horrible one) as Tuesday night it didn't skip a beat all the way down the motorway.

When popping the bonnet tonight I've noticed that all the coolant seems to have disappeared over the day and the oil is low but above minimum.

Does anybody have any ideas what could of gone on? And likely costs to put right? I'm in no position to buy a new car but I also need my car as I've just started my PGCE.

Hopefully the garage are going to pick it up tomorrow to try and diagnose the issue but it would be nice to know what you guys think.

I'm guessing its going to be either expensive or very expensive.

Btw car is an x reg 1.8T ARZ. Only engine mod is 008 as original was diagnosed as broken last week, valve has perhaps done 300 miles on the car.

Thanks
Mike
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: Nino on 21 September 2012, 07:54
I could be compleltey out of the bag here, however the one reason a 1.8T engine does this is when the oil pickp pipe gets blocked in the sump if this has happened its gunna mean a new engine I beleave. however I could be completely wrong on this.
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 21 September 2012, 07:59
That would seem about right is the pipe has become blocked, as it came from no where one day driving the best I ever had; then the next an expensive ornament on the drive.

I'm reluctant to buy a replacement though, would a rebuild not make more sense as then it's like a brand new engine as such. Obviously I need the garage to identify what's wrong first I also know they won't rip me off. Just a pain of massive proportions. :/
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: MoshiMoshi on 21 September 2012, 12:54
What about a head gasket? If you have lost coolant AND oil. Did you notice any smoke from the exhaust at any point?
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: harlemex on 21 September 2012, 13:02
Where has the coolant gone is the question. Is it in the oil? or is it on the road. I reckon when you were on the motorway you may have lost the coolant from a leak perhaps, and your engine overheated. This caused distortion on the big end shells. Then the trip up the road the next day was enough to collapse the big ends altogether. Get a socket and bar on the crankshaft and see if you can turn it.  :sick:
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 21 September 2012, 13:59
I haven't noticed any smoke ever no. But then again I can't say I've actively looked for it. When I came up the motorway the needle never went over 90 so it didn't over heat.

I guess more than anything I'm very annoyed as I've spent £300 on consumables like tyres and the 008 and was driving like a brilliant car. If there had been some warning it would still suck but not be as surprising.



Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: rio_gti on 21 September 2012, 14:16
so what happens when you fill it full of water??
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 21 September 2012, 14:26
I haven't filled it, as I've not run it. So I'm not sure. :/. I'm guessing there is a leak somewhere in the system though. Hopefully the garage have picked it up today for me. But not heard anything yet.
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: james2 on 21 September 2012, 20:23
Water pump gone and messed up your timming ,water leaked out water pump.  :undecided:
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 21 September 2012, 22:00
I'd hope not had the Campbell/ water pump done 6 months ago. Hmm. If it is the vw specialist that changed it shall get a call Monday morning hats for sure.
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: Nino on 22 September 2012, 22:35
I'd hope not had the Campbell/ water pump done 6 months ago. Hmm. If it is the vw specialist that changed it shall get a call Monday morning hats for sure.

If you had this done you are in luck! as you sould have a garrantee on the water pump work, Also when they did you TB & WP did they change the bolts in the engine mount (On the drivers side) as these can strech I found ot he hard way £728 later :'(
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: Nino on 22 September 2012, 22:39
Btw I know this might sound sill (bare with me as im still learning myself) have you got is scanned? see what horrible codes come up?
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 22 September 2012, 22:49
Yeah the engine bolts were changed. The guy was an ex vw technician and only uses vw parts. However I've taken it to a garage this time that I fully trust. (Back in the day they used to race prepare cosworths and are now Nissan gtr specialists).

I haven't plugged it in no, I haven't got vagcom but its a GOP starting point. Is £728 how much it cost you for a new engine? Or rebuild?
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: Nino on 22 September 2012, 23:30
Yeah the engine bolts were changed. The guy was an ex vw technician and only uses vw parts. However I've taken it to a garage this time that I fully trust. (Back in the day they used to race prepare cosworths and are now Nissan gtr specialists).

I haven't plugged it in no, I haven't got vagcom but its a GOP starting point. Is £728 how much it cost you for a new engine? Or rebuild?

That was just to replace my snapped engine mount, Dont ask....
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 23 September 2012, 12:13
Jesus! I'm not expert but that sounds like a bloody expensive engine mount to me. :/
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: houston on 23 September 2012, 12:40
have you checked the condition of the belt? have you tried to start it much?

arz is an interferance engine so if its siezed then you can bet the valves are smashed, and 9 times out of 10 its damage to the head. and for the age of these engines it would be much easier to swap it out, luckily its very easily done on vw's, if you have a bit of knowledge you can have it all done in a day or 2.
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 23 September 2012, 14:12
I'm having the garage checked out tomorrow. Then I'll have to work it out from there. :/

Worst comes to worst and I have to change would you suggest AUM or AUQ rather than Another ARZ?
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: houston on 23 September 2012, 19:36
I think the only difference is the turbo really, go for them if you can get one complete with turbo, you'll need the intake too.


Or you could go for a BAM? Perfect excuse to upgrade
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: Nino on 23 September 2012, 19:55
I'm having the garage checked out tomorrow. Then I'll have to work it out from there. :/

Worst comes to worst and I have to change would you suggest AUM or AUQ rather than Another ARZ?

Personally Id go for an AUM as they have the KO3s turbo like mine :)

AGU = 150 bhp - Throttle cable, KO3 turbo, 5 speed :- Re-maps to 185-200 bhp.

ARZ = 150 bhp - Drive-By-Wire, KO3 turbo, 5 speed.  :- Re-maps to 185-200 bhp.

AUM = 150 bhp - D.B.W., VVT, KO3-S turbo, 5 speed  :- Re-maps to 200-210 bhp.

AUQ = 180 bhp - D.B.W., VVT, KO3-S turbo, 6 speed  :- Re-maps to 200-210 bhp.
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 23 September 2012, 20:04
Ha. Money no object that would be a great idea however money is an object so not a real option :/. K03s engine would be nice enough. However as the car doesn't move and I don't really have the ability to collect it, I'm not sure on logistics really.
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 23 September 2012, 20:08
Also Nino there are pros and cons of AUM or ARZ. K03s is the main bonus on yours, but I had thought the ARZ was supposed to have the stronger block (although as I'm in this predicament I'm guessing not really a valid point!).

A working car would be nice ATM though.
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: Nino on 23 September 2012, 22:24
I never knew that  :huh:
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: sam1990 on 24 September 2012, 02:46
agu with a ko3s would be a good option as the agu engine is fully forged and the ko3s turbos are now inexpensive to buy and bolt straight on, and down to the engine problem id say if the belt is still intact then id of thought the coolant has probably dumped out into the cylinders causing it to hydro lock, if you have chance before the garage get it whip the plugs out and see if it then turns over chucking all the water out, if so the head will be warped/cracked so a new engine would probably work out best
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: houston on 24 September 2012, 12:43
agu with a ko3s would be a good option as the agu engine is fully forged and the ko3s turbos are now inexpensive to buy and bolt straight on, and down to the engine problem id say if the belt is still intact then id of thought the coolant has probably dumped out into the cylinders causing it to hydro lock, if you have chance before the garage get it whip the plugs out and see if it then turns over chucking all the water out, if so the head will be warped/cracked so a new engine would probably work out best

agu is cable throttle, a lot of work to retro fit.
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 24 September 2012, 17:24
I would only look at fitting ARZ, AUM or AUQ. There's no point in making more work than necessary. If it can be fixed as is il take that over anything.
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 24 September 2012, 17:29
I never knew that  :huh:

I'm fairly sure that the ARZ has some of the forge internals with a the smaller port DBW head on, then the AUM had a revised block which has smaller pistons and no forged components.

I'm sure someone on here knows the full facts but these are what I was led to believe through various readings.
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: sam1990 on 24 September 2012, 21:25
has the issue with you engine been diagnosed yet?
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 24 September 2012, 21:36
The head has seized from lack of oil, but there is oil in the engine. So they're going to see what's caused that and see what damage there is.
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: sam1990 on 24 September 2012, 21:42
oh not good at all then fella, if the coolant has also disappeared you may have a whole in the block
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 24 September 2012, 21:52
No not the best way to start a week really. I've just started my PGCE too which means I don't have much time on my hands and could do with a car.
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: Chris. on 24 September 2012, 22:22
Head has seized?  weird one....sure a seized head would cause timing to jump?
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 26 September 2012, 15:58
Turns out its not seized however there is something inside the bottom end which is catching at times during the rotation.

I had a Cambelt and water pump change 5 months ago at a local independent vw specialist. Looks like that's been leaking and the Cambelt has shredded and worn down to roughly half width in one place. I haven't personally seen it yet hoping to tonight.

But my dad went up last night and couldn't believe it.
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 27 September 2012, 21:48
Looks to be down to the garage that did the cambelt change, but is hopefully fixable. Thanks for all the responses guys.
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: Nino on 27 September 2012, 23:49
Looks to be down to the garage that did the cambelt change, but is hopefully fixable. Thanks for all the responses guys.
Thats kind of good news then, no bill for you :)
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: brewey on 28 September 2012, 11:42
That all depends on them admitting liability. So still a bill unfortunately.
Title: Re: ARZ seized/ won't turn over
Post by: Nino on 29 September 2012, 07:45
arhhh crap! :(