GolfGTIforum.co.uk

General => General discussion => Topic started by: Diamond Hell on 19 September 2012, 20:32

Title: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Diamond Hell on 19 September 2012, 20:32
So, I've read a lot about 'the beauty of full frame' recently and the 6D release has really piqued my interest in the format.  The whole time I've been shooting with my DSLR I've been shooting on a crop sensor (1.6 crop for what it's worth), but I had no idea what this meant for my images, or my photography.

Today I had the chance to get hold of an old 5D and back to back with my 500D.

Here are the results.  I think they speak for themselves:

500D

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/545560_10152138907885354_1370585657_n.jpg)

5D

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/185352_10152138907565354_606723122_n.jpg)

500D

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/385604_10152139034295354_806636468_n.jpg)

5D

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/185054_10152139031725354_275068029_n.jpg)

Would you LOOK at that bokeh?!

I think I might have just spent an extremely expensive few minutes.  :grin:
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: bobbarley on 19 September 2012, 20:46
I was lucky enough to have a play with my friends 5D when we were on our rally the other week.  Going back to my A200 after was NOT a pleasant experience  :grin:
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: stealthwolf on 19 September 2012, 22:44
I see no bokeh but see dof.
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Diamond Hell on 19 September 2012, 22:54
I see no bokeh but see dof.

Read and learn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Winso on 20 September 2012, 07:34
Full frame is undoubtedly better then a crop sensor but has little to do with bokeh. Like stealthwolf said, the effect in the photos posted is just from a shallow DOF. Was the same lens used on both cameras?
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Diamond Hell on 20 September 2012, 08:39
Full frame is undoubtedly better then a crop sensor but has little to do with bokeh.

Quote from: Someblokeontheinterweb
The difference is that the field of view is wider on a full frame camera vs. a crop sensor with the same lens.

this allows you to get closer to your subject while keeping it all in the frame.

The closer you are, the less DOF.

The less DOF, the more background/foreground blur.

the more bg/fg blur the more blur. there is "more" bokeh, if it can be said.

This is from a very long discussion, but the quality of bokeh from the full-frame appears to have more appealing characteristics.  If I have a chance to play more, to get further back-to-back comparison shots I will do.

Was the same lens used on both cameras?

Well, duh - what's the point in doing a back to back test if it's not using the same lens, at the same distance on the same subject?

Of course it was, as well as using the same ISO and F-stop, floating the shutter speed to expose correctly.
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: shepgti on 20 September 2012, 09:57
Full frame is far superior, however it comes down to are people being limited by their crop sensors and i would say very few no pros are...
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: stealthwolf on 20 September 2012, 13:06
For me, bokeh's always been about light rather than simple blurring of background.

Anyway, *want*
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: DubFan on 20 September 2012, 17:04
When you say "old 5D", do you mean the Mk1 or the recently superceded Mk2 ?

You can now get a 5D Mk2 for about £1500 brand new, which although it's not the latest, is a very good camera.
But as for me, I can't afford to go full frame. That said, all my good lenses are older full frame lenses anyway.
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Diamond Hell on 21 September 2012, 06:42
When you say "old 5D", do you mean the Mk1 or the recently superceded Mk2 ?

I mean original 5D.  Just happened to lay my grubby mitts around one for a short while, to play with.
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: T_J_G on 06 October 2012, 21:02
I played with a 5d mkIII today. Loved it! I do want one now!
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Organisys on 08 October 2012, 21:17
I've been thinking 5D Mk1 for a while now, mostly for the choice and freedom it gives you with lenses.

 :smiley:
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: T_J_G on 09 October 2012, 19:30
I must admit to being tempted by a MkI.Would mean I'd need to buy a standard zoom lense as mine is EFS.
 :whistle:

Although I don't think it gives you more 'freedom' as it restricts lens choice to EF
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Organisys on 09 October 2012, 21:30
Well put it this way, EF-S lenses are few in number and can be expensive for what they are IMHO.
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Diamond Hell on 02 December 2012, 23:02
I'm on the verge of being in trouble here.  :whistle:
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Guy on 03 December 2012, 09:18
I'm on the verge of being in trouble here.  :whistle:

 :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: DubFan on 03 December 2012, 11:36
I'm on the verge of being in trouble here.  :whistle:
Has the wife found out yet? Or have you not bought it yet?
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Diamond Hell on 03 December 2012, 12:07
Buying tomorrow, provided everything goes to plan.

What's there to tell?  I just have to make sure the cameras are just never seen together.  :grin:  :whistle:

Anyone want to buy a 500D with grip, 5 batteries and SD cards?

Oh and an EF-S 10-22mm lens?
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Organisys on 03 December 2012, 12:08
"What do you need another bloody camera for!"
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Diamond Hell on 03 December 2012, 12:11
It's bigger and so better for my big, spazzy hands.  :tongue:

Oh and the lens on it has F2.8 written on it, which is a lower number, so surely cheaperer.  :whistle:
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Organisys on 03 December 2012, 12:14
Just dont start looking at what is possible with Medium format / Hassleblad !

 :drool:
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: DubFan on 03 December 2012, 12:15

Oh and the lens on it has F2.8 written on it, which is a lower number, so surely cheaperer.  :whistle:
Good reasoning  :grin:
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Diamond Hell on 03 December 2012, 12:28
Just dont start looking at what is possible with Medium format / Hassleblad !

Aside from the full-frame thing I'm doing this to take 'the next step' in producing video, as to 500D can't take an external mic, or set aperture in video mode.

I've lived with it for a year, but this sort of thing got right on my tits at the Birkett this year.  I also shot some interview footage using the 24mm TSE, having manually fixed the aperture - it does only manual focus, too and was blown away at how good it looked.

Loads more to try out as well - shooting 24p for that 'cinematic look' etc etc.

Strikes me as the right time to do it. 

Details on the kit when it's in my grubby mitts.  :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: DubFan on 03 December 2012, 13:18
Definitely a good move for video. The Canon 5D (Mk2 or 3) is great for video, especially when you partner it with L series glass.
(But you already knew that).
At work, we're using them all over the place for video, along with a few Canon C300s which are the video equivalent and if you get one with the EF mount, you can use the relatively cheap# EF L lenses and get cinema quality.

They're being used for major film work too now. Even George Lucas and Quentin Tarantino were impressed with the quality.

# cheaper than the film/cinema lenses.
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Diamond Hell on 03 December 2012, 13:58
Haha - we're not really in 'cheap' territory here, are we?  :grin:

I've been watching the development of the C300 on Philip Bloom's site recently - looks amazing, but well out of the reach of us mere hackers.

What's probably of the most interest in this discussion is seeing hire companies saying their 5D MKIIs are just sitting on the shelves now, gathering dust because folks with enough money to hire cameras want the latest and greatest.  I'm guessing the camera hire companies have really wrung the maximum amount of income out of their 5D MKIIs over the past few years, as they've been *the* workhorse shooter of choice for years now.  Must smart having to buy these new cameras, especially when the market seems to be in a state of flux with the likes of the Black Magic camera and the RED Epics flying about in a will-it-go, won't-it-go style - they're not cheap bits of kit to buy in the hope that it'll become the established go-to shooter!
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: DubFan on 03 December 2012, 14:09
There will be a lot of ex-hire 5D MkIIs on the market for not much money for this reason.

I've seen Philip Bloom's C300 stuff too, and they do look great. The 5D Mk3 has the advantage of being a good stills shooter and a good video camera. But it's also got improved video functions over the Mk2. The video functions are generally considered to be better than the best that Nikon can offer. In fact I know pro-toggers who've swapped from Nikon to Canon for that reason.
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Diamond Hell on 03 December 2012, 15:03
I was DESPERATE to get a MKIII - more for the weather sealing and focusing than anything else.

Sadly, even at Panamoz prices it's £2k and that's a lot of money to hose on a camera body. :undecided:

This is stretching it for me, but it should be a huge leap forward from the 500D - after all, all these people rushing to the next best thing were singing the praises of the 5D2 until only recently. :grin:
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Organisys on 04 December 2012, 12:34
There will be a lot of ex-hire 5D MkIIs on the market for not much money for this reason.

Bring it!
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Diamond Hell on 04 December 2012, 13:31
Bring it!

 :grin:

Paid now.

Waiting.

75,000 actuations.  That's not very many is it?  :huh:
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Diamond Hell on 08 December 2012, 18:36
It arrived this morning.

Spent the afternoon shooting with it, around the planting of a community orchard, with The Wife, who doesn't appear to have noticed that my camera's grown slightly and the lens now has a red ring around it.  :whistle:

F*ck me the 24-70mm lens is killer sharp and the colours are just a delight.

*swoon*.
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: DubFan on 08 December 2012, 21:02
Have you still got the 500D for the moment?
Would be interesting to see some side by side comparisons.

Anyway, nice purchase. Look forward to seeing the results.
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Diamond Hell on 08 December 2012, 21:04
Have you still got the 500D for the moment?
Would be interesting to see some side by side comparisons.

Yes I have and I'll do some of those for you next week somewhen.
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Diamond Hell on 08 December 2012, 21:26
Photos not of the beach in this set are from the 5D2.

Need to reset the copyright info on it.  :rolleyes:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43476789@N00/sets/72157632135469212/

This lot are all out of the 5D2 with the 24-70 too:

http://www.flickr.com//photos/43476789@N00/sets/72157632197405509/show/
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Winso on 09 December 2012, 17:28
Arg want to go full frame so bad right now.

Enjoy!
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: shepgti on 09 December 2012, 17:37
Arg want to go full frame so bad right now.

Enjoy!

same, very nearly bought a d600 the other day! :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: thatwillis on 11 December 2012, 01:18
Arg want to go full frame so bad right now.

Enjoy!

same, very nearly bought a d600 the other day! :lipsrsealed:

Doooo It! I love my D800!
Title: Re: ZOMG! Full Frame vs Crop Sensor SLRs
Post by: Diamond Hell on 14 December 2012, 20:55
Falling in love with the 50mm again!

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/397040_10152356942445354_336245286_n.jpg)