GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: Exonian on 16 September 2012, 07:33
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Well, it's now a year since I bought my second mk6 GTI and it's that time of year again where I'm getting itchy feet and might need an autumn project.
The mk7 has finally surfaced and despite the obvious fact that it's going to be better than a mk6 it hasn't exactly set my pulse alight. The GTI is still a little way off and the R will be even further off and too much money for a mere mortal like me. And then we will have to wait for quite a while for the tuning options to start to filter through.
So, there have been a few of us now who have finally succumbed to R ownership now that the prices have started to drop a bit and I've noticed a few late 2010 models starting to appear a more realistic prices which would be far more appealing to me than the huge hit of a new car.
I know nobody is going to admit that they've just spent circa 25 - 30k and they'd made a mistake! But how do they compare on a daily basis?
The ED35 is of no interest to me, they're too similar in age and spec to my car to offer even the slightest temptation and with the simple addition of a downpipe and some stage 2 software I'm sure there would be nothing in the performance between my 'normal' GTI and a mapped ED35.
I didn't take too huge a hit on depreciation on my 09 GTI but this 11 plate one will no doubt more than make up for that so the car would have to be a huge improvement to make any sense in changing cars so soon. Otherwise I might as well just tile my bathroom as a project instead... but although that would get me brownie points at home - it's just not the same!! :laugh:
And before anyone says 'just go and drive one', I'll point out that there isn't one in a dealership within an hour of me and a test drive wouldn't give me as detailed opinion of long term ownership as the thoughts of a fellow GTI forum-ite.
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Buy one then map it :wink:
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Then map it somemore !! :grin:
I too are getting itchy feet after 3 years :rolleyes:
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I've only had mine a year and keep thinking about an. Personally I'm gonna hold out for the mk7.
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I have owned an R and am currently driving an Ed35 some may think I am mad and honestly maybe right, I have owned many VW's and couldn't wait to get my R. I ran it for 14 months and 8k and although I enjoyed it I can truthfully say a GTI is a better all round car, most of my driving is on B roads and the R suspension is totally different to the GTI, Map what you have and trust VW the mk7 in 12 months time will not disappoint, I certainly will order one the day they are released....... :smiley:
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If you can afford it and want it, then go for it!
I love my GTI, but the R was always at the back of my mind and I knew I was always going to get one, one day, especially after having a test drive! I personally did not notice the harsh ride and I doubt you will eithers as you are currently running 19s. You should make the treck and have a test drive in one, 4wd is simply amazing a great fun :laugh:
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I guess if you have the means to do it, they why not, but to me, changing an already good car so soon would be a monumental waste of money.
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I guess ultimately only the OP can decide whether it is worth changing to an .:R from a GTI. I bought my .:R simply as it was an itch I needed to scratch and don't regret it one little bit. I came from a highly modified 61 plate Polo GTI and got a really good deal on the .:R and a good p/x as well.
The .:R is in a different league to a FWD car. Mated to a DSG box and 4WD with a few choice mods and there won't be many cars that can live with it. It is more comfortable than my ED30 was even though it is currently on 19's.
Negatives are few and limited to fuel consumption (don't expect more than an average of 22mpg) and high speed acceleration( to be addressed with stage 2+) otherwise it is a great car.
As Neil mentions, the MKVII .:R will be at least 18 months away and then there will be another year or so before any significant modifications will be available. 2.5 years for me will be at least the time I will be keeping my car and so getting an .:R now is probably the best time to do so for anyone thinking about it. New enough to be low mileage and have a warranty, but old enough to have dropped in price to a reasonable level.
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I guess if you have the means to do it, they why not, but to me, changing an already good car so soon would be a monumental waste of money.
Financially it needn't be as bad as you'd think, I don't rush into things and normally spend up to six months sussing out deals once I've decided on a car change. I don't have the luxury of a company car allowance or masses of disposable income but I'm flexible and have plenty of time so will make a salesman earn his keep!
What I want to know is the feel of the car in long term use, does the bigger turbo blunt the low end response, does the 4WD system make the car feel heavier to drive etc.
Unless I'm very sure an R would be the car for me I'll happily keep my GTI for a few years yet, maybe go stage 2 once the warranty is out and then eventually get a mk7 once they've been out a while (I won't rush in like I did with the mk6) or more likely a mk3 Leon Cupra.
I guess ultimately only the OP can decide whether it is worth changing to an .:R from a GTI. I bought my .:R simply as it was an itch I needed to scratch and don't regret it one little bit. I came from a highly modified 61 plate Polo GTI and got a really good deal on the .:R and a good p/x as well.
The .:R is in a different league to a FWD car. Mated to a DSG box and 4WD with a few choice mods and there won't be many cars that can live with it. It is more comfortable than my ED30 was even though it is currently on 19's.
Negatives are few and limited to fuel consumption (don't expect more than an average of 22mpg) and high speed acceleration( to be addressed with stage 2+) otherwise it is a great car.
As Neil mentions, the MKVII .:R will be at least 18 months away and then there will be another year or so before any significant modifications will be available. 2.5 years for me will be at least the time I will be keeping my car and so getting an .:R now is probably the best time to do so for anyone thinking about it. New enough to be low mileage and have a warranty, but old enough to have dropped in price to a reasonable level.
Nice one John, that's the same sort of thinking as me! :smiley:
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I guess the main question is do you really want/need 4WD? The other main question is are you definitely going to mod it e.g stage 2? If the answer is yes then R is the answer (just look at the performance of Hurdy's R) if not keep your GTI or buy an ED35 (has same engine as the R so feels faster than a GTI due to K04) until the MK7 is out and there are mod options.
Having driven an R on an extended two day test drive over the weekend and comparing with the ED30 which I had at the time the R was the better car but was really only fractionally faster, therefore not worth the extra if keeping it std.
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I guess the main question is do you really want/need 4WD? The other main question is are you definitely going to mod it e.g stage 2? If the answer is yes then R is the answer (just look at the performance of Hurdy's R) if not keep your GTI or buy an ED35 (has same engine as the R so feels faster than a GTI due to K04) until the MK7 is out and there are mod options.
Having driven an R on an extended two day test drive over the weekend and comparing with the ED30 which I had at the time the R was the better car but was really only fractionally faster, therefore not worth the extra if keeping it std.
Thanks.
The GTI might be put to stage 2 at a later date if I can pick up the hardware cheaply but if I got an R it'd only be put to stage 1 I reckon, maybe I'd get carried away and go stage 2 but certainly not as far as changing intercoolers and fuel pumps at stage 2 +
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What I want to know is the feel of the car in long term use, does the bigger turbo blunt the low end response, does the 4WD system make the car feel heavier to drive etc.
For me low end it's a lot more laggy where the gti has a silky smooth power delivery and yes the 4wd system does make it feel more heavier than the gti BUT after 1300miles i'm starting to open it up more and it's a lot of fun. :evil:
The ride is harsher than the gti but it is lower than the gti and i'm running 19's also so it's not going to be as nice as a gti on 18's.
Like i've said before the gti is a great car, the R is a great car. Both have different good points and both have different bad points it depends what you want in the car. If you do a few miles be prepared for more trips to the petrol station though, i don't mind as it only comes out on sundays! :grin:
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I guess the main question is do you really want/need 4WD? The other main question is are you definitely going to mod it e.g stage 2? If the answer is yes then R is the answer (just look at the performance of Hurdy's R) if not keep your GTI or buy an ED35 (has same engine as the R so feels faster than a GTI due to K04) until the MK7 is out and there are mod options.
Having driven an R on an extended two day test drive over the weekend and comparing with the ED30 which I had at the time the R was the better car but was really only fractionally faster, therefore not worth the extra if keeping it std.
The GTI might be put to stage 2 at a later date if I can pick up the hardware cheaply but if I got an R it'd only be put to stage 1 I reckon, maybe I'd get carried away and go stage 2 but certainly not as far as changing intercoolers and fuel pumps at stage 2 +
Stage 2+ doesn't require the Intercooler. Remember it already has an S3 Intercooler. Just the intake, exhaust and hpfp are all that are needed for 2+. :wink:
So basically for under £300 you can go from stage 2 to 2+. :cool:
Thanks.
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I would go for the R Andy. As you use the Seat Ibiza as your daily the R's fuel costs aren't so much of an issue which would be my main gripe.
Also if you keep the R say 3-4 years the mk7 special edition models would likely be out by by then if they take your fancy.
I say if the 'man maths' stacks up, then go for it! :smiley:
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As the kids would say YOLO :evil:
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You'd need to drive an R to know.
In my short drive, they feel heavier and more reluctant to change direction - to be expected with 4WD.
No doubt that if your sense of 'fun' is going from A to B in all weathers as fast as possible, then an R will deliver...once you get used to how best to drive it...the problem I felt was that it didn't feel 'fun'.
It was very good...if anything, too good. To efficient...too well sorted, too easy...which meant the 'fun' came right at the edge of the grip envelope.
The last thing I want is something that pushes the speeds and limits even higher.
In my opinion, and it is purely an opinion, you have more fun at modest speeds in a GTI because it's not so good at putting the power down etc. You have to work at it, put some effort it...the R was uber quick and easy with minimum effort once you get used to the way to drive it to get the best from it (same as an S3/R32)
I think the final call will come down to how you want your fun delivered and what's important. :smiley:
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I guess the main question is do you really want/need 4WD? The other main question is are you definitely going to mod it e.g stage 2? If the answer is yes then R is the answer (just look at the performance of Hurdy's R) if not keep your GTI or buy an ED35 (has same engine as the R so feels faster than a GTI due to K04) until the MK7 is out and there are mod options.
Having driven an R on an extended two day test drive over the weekend and comparing with the ED30 which I had at the time the R was the better car but was really only fractionally faster, therefore not worth the extra if keeping it std.
The GTI might be put to stage 2 at a later date if I can pick up the hardware cheaply but if I got an R it'd only be put to stage 1 I reckon, maybe I'd get carried away and go stage 2 but certainly not as far as changing intercoolers and fuel pumps at stage 2 +
Stage 2+ doesn't require the Intercooler. Remember it already has an S3 Intercooler. Just the intake, exhaust and hpfp are all that are needed for 2+. :wink:
So basically for under £300 you can go from stage 2 to 2+. :cool:
Thanks.
Are you sure it uses the same intercooler? I think it uses the same intercooler as the GTI
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The other consideration is do you wait for the mk7 gti? You say looking at the pictures so far your underwhelmed by it, but this is always the case when a newer model car comes out.
I can pretty much guarantee once it comes out and its been seen in the flesh a few times your all be angling for one :smiley:
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I've just come from an 2010 X5 3.0d (surprisingly quick) to a Mk6 Gti (my 6th Gti). Looked at S3's, R's, etc etc but more power and more expense doesn't necessarily mean more fun, sometimes quite the opposite. For me, the Gti has pretty much all the power i need and seems far quicker than the figures suggest, in short it was great fun and had a spark that the S3 didn't. I liked the .:R but couldn't justify the extra expense, and In any case, I just like the whole GTi brand - has history to me.
The only other car i really toiled with was a 125i MSport, but the GTi was 10k less and easily as quick and as much fun. If i was spending £30k and craved more power, then i'd go for a total change of scenery and get a 135i MSport (minimal spec). I think those cars will be very sought after and have great residuals. iDrive is fantastic now too - puts the VW system to shame.
For now i'm having great fun in my Gti and it's costing me pretty much feck all to run.
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, and In any case, I just like the whole GTi brand - has history to me.
That's a great point and one thing that I will definitely miss with the BMW.
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I think those cars will be very sought after and have great residuals. iDrive is fantastic now too - puts the VW system to shame.
I test drove an X5M a couple of weeks ago - and thought the iDrive was brilliant. I still find the VW system easier to use because of the touch screen address entry rather than scrolling round to find a letter.
What really put me off was the fact that the £85,000 demonstrator I had shared the same dashboard, buttons and cheap seats with my wifes BMW120i Cabriolet. Apart from embossing the 'M' logo in the headrests, the seats were identical!
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I think those cars will be very sought after and have great residuals. iDrive is fantastic now too - puts the VW system to shame.
I test drove an X5M a couple of weeks ago - and thought the iDrive was brilliant. I still find the VW system easier to use because of the touch screen address entry rather than scrolling round to find a letter.
very good point - and full postcode entry save a lot of time
What really put me off was the fact that the £85,000 demonstrator I had shared the same dashboard, buttons and cheap seats with my wifes BMW120i Cabriolet. Apart from embossing the 'M' logo in the headrests, the seats were identical!
I'd HATE to think what you'd lose on one of those, as well as the running costs. Absolute money pit IMO. My X5 was a cracking car, it just had shocking suspension (back breaking suspension) which was strange for a car like that. My GTI glides in comparison, and that's with the 18" Monzas on.
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You'd need to drive an R to know.
In my short drive, they feel heavier and more reluctant to change direction - to be expected with 4WD.
No doubt that if your sense of 'fun' is going from A to B in all weathers as fast as possible, then an R will deliver...once you get used to how best to drive it...the problem I felt was that it didn't feel 'fun'.
It was very good...if anything, too good. To efficient...too well sorted, too easy...which meant the 'fun' came right at the edge of the grip envelope.
The last thing I want is something that pushes the speeds and limits even higher.
In my opinion, and it is purely an opinion, you have more fun at modest speeds in a GTI because it's not so good at putting the power down etc. You have to work at it, put some effort it...the R was uber quick and easy with minimum effort once you get used to the way to drive it to get the best from it (same as an S3/R32)
I think the final call will come down to how you want your fun delivered and what's important. :smiley:
That's a pretty good summary IMHO :smiley:
GTi - Lighter, nimbler and more "chuckable" through the bends - but ultimately only FWD grip
R - A heavier "planted" feel with stunning traction and acceleration in all conditions
Both great cars but quite different in their own ways
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summed up perfectly JonnyG and Ess_Three bost great cars in different ways
sometimes i think should i have gone R instead of Ed35 but having done 2k in the last two weeks in the Ed35 in France i can say i absolutely love it and loved what i've done to it
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Thanks for all the feedback, most enlightening and about what I thought everyone would say.
I'm going to sit back a while and have a think...
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Id have the R all day every day over GTI just 4wd alone nails it :wink:
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good article in this months TG on hot hatches and the stig and where the VAG contingent
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The new S3 has left me underwhelmed (interior looks fantastic though if you can afford to load it up with all the extras shown) so that's off the shopping list! http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/paris-motor-show-2012/new-296bhp-audi-s3-revealed
Nah, going to stick with the GTI I think and maybe do a few subtle mods. The RVCs seem to have come down in price to i may add one of those along with a DAB unit (might as well do the two together if the trim has to be removed to put the wiring in for camera and ariel), then wait to see what the mk3 Leon Cupra looks like.
Golf mk7 not doing it for me (famous last words!)
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I noticed that with the rvc too I was thinking the same, maybe time to get Some add ons, some early Christmas presents maybe. :evil:
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My sister rocked up today, other half in tow, in her new TT quattro, spent a while telling me how fantastic it was with it's 4WD, then invited me out to lunch.
Now, anyone with a hole in their ar$e could see 3 adults in a TT was never going to work.
So I tossed her the keys to my GTI.
A few miles later and we are getting comments like:
"It just wants to go doesn't it"
"Jeez...this thing really goes"
"Isn't the steering twitchy"
And on the way home "I have no idea how you keep this thing at 60"...if the truth be told, I don't....but that's another story.
Another Aldi driver receives enlightenment. :whistle:
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Is it modified as mine feels quite flat performance wise, bit quicker than my Leon but certainly not setting any pants on fire :huh:
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good article in this months TG on hot hatches and the stig and where the VAG contingent
It's not often I buy car mags but you just persuaded me to put a copy in my trolley at Sainsburys earlier!
Will read it tomorrow when the rain puts a stop to my car cleaning day...
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its interesting how they rate the fun factor
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Is it modified as mine feels quite flat performance wise, bit quicker than my Leon but certainly not setting any pants on fire :huh:
One of the reasons I changed my MK6 to the ED35 as the bigger turbo makes the car feel faster (even if there is very little in it on paper). Std GTI is great, goes from low revs but does feel flat at the top end and therefore needs a map IMO.
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Is it modified as mine feels quite flat performance wise, bit quicker than my Leon but certainly not setting any pants on fire :huh:
One of the reasons I changed my MK6 to the ED35 as the bigger turbo makes the car feel faster (even if there is very little in it on paper). Std GTI is great, goes from low revs but does feel flat at the top end and therefore needs a map IMO.
Everything I have read indicates that once mapped I will find it a bit more exciting to drive, fingers crossed :smiley:
Intake and CAT back winging its way to me should help spice up the sounds too...
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power delivery between the GTI with IHI and K04 is completely different experience
IHI kicks in lower down the range so you get the surge of torque sooner (you can get caught napping with the K04) put still hits peak power around 5.5k, big advantage when i went stage 2 was there was very little drop off in power after this
when i took the mods off off the rocco i got Revo to go back to Stage 1 rather than stock as it had no mid range (in comparison)
in stage 2 form the IHI was good but for me couldn't match the K04 in terms of fun
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Starting to wonder if my impulsive purchase has stuffed me as I wanted an ED30 originally but got seduced by the MK6 looks...hmmmm :huh:
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i think i slightly prefered mapped mk6 gti to the ed30 for everyday driving... but once it gets into the big numbers the k04 just keeps on going. :evil:
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You'd need to drive an R to know.
In my short drive, they feel heavier and more reluctant to change direction - to be expected with 4WD.
No doubt that if your sense of 'fun' is going from A to B in all weathers as fast as possible, then an R will deliver...once you get used to how best to drive it...the problem I felt was that it didn't feel 'fun'.
It was very good...if anything, too good. To efficient...too well sorted, too easy...which meant the 'fun' came right at the edge of the grip envelope.
The last thing I want is something that pushes the speeds and limits even higher.
In my opinion, and it is purely an opinion, you have more fun at modest speeds in a GTI because it's not so good at putting the power down etc. You have to work at it, put some effort it...the R was uber quick and easy with minimum effort once you get used to the way to drive it to get the best from it (same as an S3/R32)
I think the final call will come down to how you want your fun delivered and what's important. :smiley:
Im totally in agreement here with theses comments.
Ive owed an Audi 8P S3 and i felt it was way to clinical and Id hazard a guess very much like the R. The 4 wheel drive system is heavier and transmission loss in my opinion doesnt make it feel that much faster although you can argue its better in bends but i didnt rag it every day so didnt always feel the cost value was in it (S3 is of course quattro by nature so no alternative)
Now that Im in an ED35 which is a VW alternative, its livlier not bogged down, corners just as brilliantly and i think in either GTI/ED35 a cheaper option thats still gives you miles of smiles :smiley: