GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: Koose on 29 August 2012, 22:06
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Hi all,
Many thanks for having me. Im banned from fettling with mine and the missus posh car (a nissan of sorts).
So i want to get stuck in to my 1996 Mk3 16v.
Now my very first port of call is chassis mods.
Now as a rule of thumb, i usually find out whats considered the best value for money brake upgrade, and suspension upgrade.
I was thinking of some GAZ coilovers (never ever let me down in the past). Some thicker ARBS, full poly bushes all round, lightweight 16" wheels and some really sticky tyres.
However, what i need (what i beg) from you guys, is what tricks are there? What cheap brake upgrades are there, like do bigger brakes off another dub fit straight on etc? Whats the consensus to strut braces and thicker arb?
What rate for springs would you run if youre sole ambition was to make the car handle as best as possible.
I have tried searching but i just cant get anywhere.
Truly grateful from a noob whos wanted a golf for years. (dont tell the missus but i actually am more excited about it than my Nismo Z.
Mark
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Hi all,
Many thanks for having me. Im banned from fettling with mine and the missus posh car (a nissan of sorts).
So i want to get stuck in to my 1996 Mk3 16v.
Now my very first port of call is chassis mods.
Now as a rule of thumb, i usually find out whats considered the best value for money brake upgrade, and suspension upgrade.
I was thinking of some GAZ coilovers (never ever let me down in the past). Some thicker ARBS, full poly bushes all round, lightweight 16" wheels and some really sticky tyres.
However, what i need (what i beg) from you guys, is what tricks are there? What cheap brake upgrades are there, like do bigger brakes off another dub fit straight on etc? Whats the consensus to strut braces and thicker arb?
What rate for springs would you run if youre sole ambition was to make the car handle as best as possible.
I have tried searching but i just cant get anywhere.
Truly grateful from a noob whos wanted a golf for years. (dont tell the missus but i actually am more excited about it than my Nismo Z.
Mark
A few ideas:
Brakes: early TT/S3 312mm discs fit the hubs with standard calipers as long as you fit a 6mm spacer behind the caliper carrier.
Grooved discs if you want the extra bite - Brembo/Black Diamond etc
Ferodo DS2500 / Mintex M1155 front pads, stainless hoses...standard sized rear discs, standard/Mintex M1144 rear pads.
Brakes sorted.
GAZ coilovers = superb.
Go with GAZs spring rates - they will suit the valving on the dampers.
The Koni coilover kit works well too...but is a tad firm for a 16v on the road.
Eibach ARBs work a treat....or Neuspeed if you want an adjustable rear ARB to tweak the handling.
Powerflex bushes work well - bottom arm F & R...I wouldn't bother with the front crossmember.
Powerflex rear beam bushes work well.
Vibratechnics engine and gearbox mounts.
16" wheels = good...but trackday rubber in a decent size is hard to find.
195/50/16 R888s/A048s available (I have both) but it screws the gearing up, so ideally you need to change the Final Drive to a 3.94 to bring the gearing back to stock...even better, go to a 4.2 to lower the gearing in the trackday tyres.
You'll want the rear pretty hard, the front less so.
Try around -1.5 to -1.75 degrees negative camber per side...and I find 5 mins toe out per side works well.
That's a starter for ten :grin:
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Wow, so friendly and such great info thanks man!!
Is there anywhere that sells the spacer? Does it just move the caliper away from the disc outwards..if you get my meaning?
How bad would stock calipers be for now as the car is a budget carfor now, assuming i did everythhing else the same, DS25s, gooved ultimax or tarx discs, good fluid?the missus has allowed m to go for Gas GHAs as sheloves the difference they make.
How much is the TT set up.Now the only oteher FWD cars ive had have been several Rover coupe turbos and a maestro turbo (thought i recognised the suspension on my Mk3.
As you seem kind enough to offer help. 2 questions, how much of a pipe dream would it be to fit an eaton SC to my 16V? and What sort of engine mods would you do, in order of ...err worthwhileness i guess? Is the stock diff an open one or a quaiffe/ torsen like the Rovers have?
Is it worthwhile fitting strutbraces then?
And do they make a shortshifter for our cars?
Also old fashioned i know but, is the ecu self learning or can i fit an engine back exhaust, Gruppe M or Viper induction without too many ussues?
Huge thanks again, i really hope to show you the results early next year :-D Car is a P reg GTi16v?
Thanksagain,
Mark W
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Wow, so friendly and such great info thanks man!!
Is there anywhere that sells the spacer? Does it just move the caliper away from the disc outwards..if you get my meaning?
The spacer puts the caliper carrier 6mm further in than the Mk3 caliper/disc as the Mk4/TT/S3 stuff site further in.
You can keep your existing callipers, but the need the 312mm discs and caliper carriers.
Not sure where you can buy them. I turned my own. You will need 6mm longer bolts too - in 12.8 strength.
How bad would stock calipers be for now as the car is a budget carfor now,
OK...still pretty good...but fadable, even on the road if you really lean on them hard.
312s just give a little more fade resistance...
assuming i did everythhing else the same, DS25s, gooved ultimax or tarx discs, good fluid?the missus has allowed m to go for Gas GHAs as sheloves the difference they make.
Sounds good.
How much is the TT set up.Now the only oteher FWD cars ive had have been several Rover coupe turbos and a maestro turbo (thought i recognised the suspension on my Mk3.
Not sure...it was probably 10 years ago I bought my last set. You should be able to get the caliper carriers for £100ish...and buy new discs.
As you seem kind enough to offer help. 2 questions, how much of a pipe dream would it be to fit an eaton SC to my 16V?
No idea.
Possible...but hard and expensive...and you'd need the SLK version...the MINI one will be too small.
and What sort of engine mods would you do, in order of ...err worthwhileness i guess? Is the stock diff an open one or a quaiffe/ torsen like the Rovers have?
Stock diff is open.
Gearing is close enough, but saddled with a long FD.
If you want my honest view...K&N fileter, de-restrict the airbox, port the throttle body, eBay chip and leave the rest alone...you will spend £1000s chasing little gains...
Exhaust gice nothing but noise.
No need to de-cat...it adds nothing.
Standard downpipes are good for 200 BHP...so don't waste your money on a bling 4 branch.
Fit a 3.94 or 4.2 FD to the standard gearbox (depending on tyre size), lighten the flywheel, and spend the money you would normally have spent on go-faster sh!t, on a Peloquin/Quaife diff.
That will give you a 160+ BHP car with low gearing, plenty of traction...and make it far quicker on the road than a 190 BHP car with a standard gearbox (from experience).
Is it worthwhile fitting strutbraces then?
Won't do any harm...
Won't do an awful lot of good either.
And do they make a shortshifter for our cars?
Not sure if they do anymore.
You can fit a Mk4 complete shift set up - lever, cables and shift tower.
Takes a bit of fitting and fiddling...but far better than the Mk3 stuff.
Plenty info on the 'net.
Also old fashioned i know but, is the ecu self learning or can i fit an engine back exhaust, Gruppe M or Viper induction without too many ussues?
Nope...ECU isn't self learning.
You'll not get much of a gain - if any - from an exhaust...or bling inlet kit.
De-restricting the standard airbox will give 2-3 BHP...as much as some £400 piece of finely buffed carbon bling...and costs a fraction.
Don't fit an open cone filter - hot air = de-tuning.
You can get small gains from the airbox, the filter, porting the TB and a chip of some sort...on a healthy engine that should net you 160 ish BHP.
The light flywheel will feel like you've added 20 BHP...and sorting the gearing will really make it come together.
That's my view...plenty others will argue. :lipsrsealed:
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Powerflex rear beam bushes work well.
Why (Rear) Poly Bushings Are Bad (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2118568#post22505348)
I wouldn't ever polybush the rear beam
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I've never been a fan of them on road cars really.
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I wouldn't ever polybush the rear beam
If you want to tighten up the chassis, it works a treat.
There are no opposing forces in the rear beam pivot...it's just a hinge.
You can fit solid nylon or even metal bearings if you want, and suffer no ill effects.
You don't want the rear beam deflecting in the bushes if you are going to the trouble of shimming the rear for camber/toe...or you are wasting time.
That's the one set of bushes you WILL notice a big difference by changing.
But...nobody's making you do it.
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Do you have any dimensions/drawings for the throttle body modification?
Regarding the brakes, from what's posted above am I right in thinking you need early TT/S3 312mm discs, the carriers from said vehicle and 6mm spacers, with the existing callipers and appropriate pads?
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My whole chassis is poly bushed and feels great, it has recent Sachs shocks and I think they are -25/40mm springs (not sure of brand). Bit too firm at times but is a fun through corners like a gti should be.
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Do you have any dimensions/drawings for the throttle body modification?
Regarding the brakes, from what's posted above am I right in thinking you need early TT/S3 312mm discs, the carriers from said vehicle and 6mm spacers, with the existing callipers and appropriate pads?
Yup, as long as you have 288mm front brakes to start with.
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Do you have any dimensions/drawings for the throttle body modification?
Regarding the brakes, from what's posted above am I right in thinking you need early TT/S3 312mm discs, the carriers from said vehicle and 6mm spacers, with the existing callipers and appropriate pads?
Yup, as long as you have 288mm front brakes to start with.
What he said! :grin:
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Sweet, I think mine has 288mm discs. It's a '94 16v. If I recall correctly all 16v models were fitted with 288mm..?
I know it's been asked many times before but will the 312mm setup fit with 15" alloys?
This is shaping up to be a nice little mod :cool:
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Correct me if i'm wrong Glen but aren't 16's the smallest rim size you can go and even then not all will fit?
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Do you have any dimensions/drawings for the throttle body modification?
Just take the ramps off the TB, inside and out.
You can do it with a Dremmel, just don't touch the sealing face.
It's pretty obvious when you get the TB in your hands.
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Sweet, I think mine has 288mm discs. It's a '94 16v. If I recall correctly all 16v models were fitted with 288mm..?
I'm not certain that's true.
I think early 16vs may have been 280s. Not sure though.
If the calipers are the ATE type, and have the visible spring clip thingy on the outside face, they are 288s.
I know it's been asked many times before but will the 312mm setup fit with 15" alloys?
This is shaping up to be a nice little mod :cool:
No. They won't.
16" minimum.
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Do you have any dimensions/drawings for the throttle body modification?
Just take the ramps off the TB, inside and out.
You can do it with a Dremmel, just don't touch the sealing face.
It's pretty obvious when you get the TB in your hands.
I had mine off for it's periodic scrub up this past weekend and i forgot just how rough and lipped these were. unfortunately my Dremel is out of suitable bits at the moment but i can feel a bit of fettling coming on over the next week or so.
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Correct me if i'm wrong Glen but aren't 16's the smallest rim size you can go and even then not all will fit?
They are...and multi-piece 16" wheels probably won't fit.
Anniversary wheels don't fit without work on the callipers...and they are 16"
Most 16" single piece wheels should fit...unless they are a very deep dish design...then they'll hit.
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Yeah i think it was 16v's after 96 that had 288mm discs along with the VR6's.
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I had mine off for it's periodic scrub up this past weekend and i forgot just how rough and lipped these were. unfortunately my Dremel is out of suitable bits at the moment but i can feel a bit of fettling coming on over the next week or so.
You can go further if you have access to a lathe with a 4-jaw chuck:
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z72/Ess_Three/Golf%20GTI%2016v%20Anniversary/DSCF1017.jpg)
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Even with my standard 288mm discs there isn't really that much clearance on my 16'' BBS RX wheels. Once the 312mm's go on they'll be bloody close!
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i have some 312mm brake set up for sale as it happens :smiley:
a definite worthy mod
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I think early 16vs may have been 280s. Not sure though.
ALL early 8, 16 and VR6 only had 280s
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Even with my standard 288mm discs there isn't really that much clearance on my 16'' BBS RX wheels. Once the 312mm's go on they'll be bloody close!
Don't worry...they fit! :grin:
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Sadly we don't have lathes in our workshop so isn't going to be happening anytime soon, many a broken throttle body in the process so Ive heard though as the tolerances are so close?
I'm glad you've posted that image actually as it's reminded me to ask, whats the purpose of the smaller vacuum outlet that runs down to the side of the airbox? I know the larger one runs to the purge valve which I've blocked up as it's now been removed.
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I'm glad you've posted that image actually as it's reminded me to ask, whats the purpose of the smaller vacuum outlet that runs down to the side of the airbox? I know the larger one runs to the purge valve which I've blocked up as it's now been removed.
It goes to the flap within the airbox that opens on high vacuum to let hot air in.
I binned the flap, sealed the airbox and removed all the tubing...hence blocking up the small take off.
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i have some 312mm brake set up for sale as it happens :smiley:
a definite worthy mod
Don't suppose you've got so spare carriers going cheap have you mate? :wink:
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I'm glad you've posted that image actually as it's reminded me to ask, whats the purpose of the smaller vacuum outlet that runs down to the side of the airbox? I know the larger one runs to the purge valve which I've blocked up as it's now been removed.
It goes to the flap within the airbox that opens on high vacuum to let hot air in.
I binned the flap, sealed the airbox and removed all the tubing...hence blocking up the small take off.
Ah right, i did wonder whether i should bin that as well as the box was gutted of everything yonks ago and i riveted a plate over the hot air inlet. On the side of the air box there are two tiny vacuum inlets, one pipe went with all the gubbins but i was unsure about the one that lead to the throttle body hence it was left in place. Il be scrapping that tomorrow then, cheers.
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how much better if anything is fitting 312 standard brakes over performance 288 eg black diamond?>