GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: jmsheahan on 30 July 2012, 15:39
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Seeing as there seem to be a fair few audi owners on here I was wondering if I could get some fairly urgent advice :smiley:
I'm going to need a new daily car for commuting duties. Have been looking at cheap B5 Passats and late 90's A4's (Looked at 2 of each so far and prefer the A4). Budget is pretty tight and would be no more than a 1k so I'm not looking at minters which is fine with me.
I looked at an A4 today that ticks most of the boxes and has got me generally interested over the other dogs I've seen. Seems to be a local car, Full Audi service history, lots of receipts, all control arms done, EGR valve, really tidy body wise and ticks all of the boxes of where money should be spent. Only downside is 214k. Just been for a drive and it seems good, doesn't wander, knock or bump and everything feels tight. However two problems:
Clutch Seems pretty high and light (Passat I looked at was like this too). Are they all like this or is the clutch on its way out? It doesn't seem to slip.
Limp mode Car smokes black smog every now and again under hard acceleration but not consistently. I had the test drive by myself so was able to give the car a bit of stick and after a few hard accelerations I noticed the car felt 'bogged down' (limp mode?). Stopped, restarted and all was well. Possibly new turbo?
Other than that I think this car is pretty good for the money. If anyone has any advice it would be much appreciated as I'm not sure whether to make a move on it tomorrow. Walk or go for it? It's £800 by the way.
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I've driven a couple and found the clutch pedals to be quite high. Hydrologic I believe so no adjustment. After speaking to a couple of friends at work who have had A4s and Passats, it seems quite common. Apparently during a clutch change it is possible to adjust the pedal height slightly although I am not sure how.
If it doesn't drive as it should, bogging down, restarting then being OK again, inconsistent smoking and carrying those miles, personally with your budget I would keep looking.
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What Shaun said :wink:
I have put a new upgraded clutch in mine and still feels high so don't think that's much of an issue unless you tried hard accelleration in higher gears and it was slipping. If you're not happy, walk away as it could be a £300+ bill if you don't want to replace yourself.
Sorry, not much help with the black smoke etc. but I would be wary as it could lead to all kinds of trouble :undecided:
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Black smoke usually indicates a boost leak. If it hit limp mode then its either sticky turbo vanes or a duff sensor.
Id keep looking personally as you might end up spending a small fortune
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Thanks for the heads up guys, appreciated.
It's annoying as it's perfect other than that. So the black smoke isn't normal for a diesel then I take it. I don't mind getting my hands dirty and am aware I won't get a perfect one, I just don't want a complete money pit.
So likely new turbo needed then?
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It could simply be a boost leak but without driving it or seeing it its hard to diagnose :sad:
Did the car feel completly flat?? Or did it judder and splutter?
You do get black smoke under hard accerleration especially if you are in a high gear at low speed but this should clear as the turbo spools and cleans up the air
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It could simply be a boost leak but without driving it or seeing it its hard to diagnose :sad:
Did the car feel completly flat?? Or did it judder and splutter?
You do get black smoke under hard accerleration especially if you are in a high gear at low speed but this should clear as the turbo spools and cleans up the air
Just felt flat really, no judder or splutter. Smoke was just a single 'puff' when booting it in second gear, not a constant plume or anything but a fair cloud - the ways of the diesel are new to me :grin:. The turbo seemed to do it's job well until the limp mode (no lights on dash, just lost power, couldn't hear turbo etc). As I say, restart all was well.
There was a receipt for a new EGR valve if that is any more of a clue :undecided:
It's tricky because this is by far the cleanest I've seen, ticks all the boxes etc and is super close but if it's going to be a complete money pit it's a no go.
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Dont' suppose you know someone or can grab a copy of vagcom to check for codes. Even though you have no lights on it should have logged a fault code
If it has an overboost / underboost code I'd walk away....
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I have vagcom but I don't think the garage would be too happy about me scanning it to be honest plus I'd need extension cables etc as my lappy has a duff battery :grin:
Read a lot last night about sticking turbo vanes - seems a good clean is in order for that but as I say diesel is new territory for me.
BTW the car in question (ignore price):
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201229479386551/usedcars?logcode=visc
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Looks tidy, does it have navigation and headlight washers as per the ad? :undecided:
It's so hard to judge this way though, could do with driving it/seeing it etc. I reckon compared to your golf it will naturally feel quite gutless and may be quite normal but what puts me off is it's limping. Can you find another one to test to compare?
One positive I can see is that access to work on that engine looks pretty damn good. The negative being that with the mileage it has it may start giving you a long list of expensive issues as parts wont be cheap and it's old enough to have a mid-life crisis. I think you could find something with less miles on it for your budget.
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Cheers Shaun :smiley:
No it doesn't have any of that, not sure what was going on with the advert there! Yeah compared to the Golf it's gutless but performance seems fine when it's not in limp mode and the turbo seems to spool up ok. Brakes are good and suspension all seems ok. Performance wise it feels the same as others I have driven (one Passat I drove had exactly the same limp mode symptoms).
That's the thing really, I think it's probably best to walk away but I've got this niggling feeling it may be something dead simple in which case it would be a good cheap buy. It's the tidiest I've seen and all the cars in my budget are around 150k-222k but the others have no paperwork to back up parts, let alone a full Audi service history.
You are dead right about issues that could arise however I think that will be the case with whatever I buy, I'm viewing this as disposable motoring really. Tricky one.
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You said you didn't mind get your hands dirty..
Get him down low enough so you can buy a spare low mileage engine for it, then it's win win.
Find out if it's an AFN code engine. Saw one one bay of e for £250ish with 80k on it! plus £80 for the turbo..
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Yeah engines do seem quite cheap to be fair. What sort of ball park figure would you offer?
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Yeah engines do seem quite cheap to be fair. What sort of ball park figure would you offer?
How did you get down to the £800 price so far? Have you already pointed out your concerns about the engine to the seller?... I would push my luck and offer £650 and hope he meets you in the middle at £700 which gives you £300 to chuck at it should it demand it, worse case that would cover you for a new engine as that's all you seem to be able to fault it on.
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Just said flat out I wasn't paying 1100 and I'd be prepared to offer around 700-800 pointing out the issues (seemed fair after looking at the other cars). He won't go as low as £650 I doubt as it's kind of hard to fault it other than the limp mode and mileage :undecided: Even got tax and test.
Cheers for the advice though appreciated, need to have a solid think about it.
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Just said flat out I wasn't paying 1100 and I'd be prepared to offer around 700-800 pointing out the issues (seemed fair after looking at the other cars). He won't go as low as £650 I doubt as it's kind of hard to fault it other than the limp mode and mileage :undecided: Even got tax and test.
Cheers for the advice though appreciated, need to have a solid think about it.
Did he seem happy with 800?
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Yeah I think so, mumbled that we could sort something out around that price.
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Yeah I think so, mumbled that we could sort something out around that price.
Push for 700 then, worth a shot, what's the worst that can happen, he can only say no. Bet he's still making a couple of hundred on it.
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Very true that very true :cool:
I think 800 will probs be the lowest he'll go though, will have to see, if I do go for it.
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Very true that very true :cool:
I think 800 will probs be the lowest he'll go though, will have to see, if I do go for it.
He might meet you in the middle of that at 750 though. :grin:
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It's to expensive at that age, these sort of motors around mid to late 90's are falling out the classifieds for half that sort of money around this way. Does it need to be VAG ?? I bought Big M a 97 BM 323 coupe 110k miles with a full main dealer service history with 10 months mot for £500. I sold it a couple of weeks ago rather than test it again for £150. In the eleven months used just about every day it never missed a beat, I did nothing to it and never even had to top up the oil.
Personally I'd give a smokey old Audi a miss and have another look around. Plenty out there to choose from.
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Has to be an estate really but doesn't have to be VAG (but preferable).
With 1k to play with it's slim pickings.
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Didn't catch the estate bit but probably even better who wants an old one of those, I'm genuinely surprised when I looked for a motor for "M" there were plenty tidy cars on offer locally for five or six hundred quid asking price and room to knock the sellers down a bit so definitely no need to be buying a thing that goes into limp home mode and might need a three hundred quid clutch kit.
This was the one I bought, I sold it to a bloke at works son and he got it tested again the day after he picked it up, easily another year in it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/JHL81/cars/IMAG0595-1.jpg)
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Also missing the diesel point.. old big petrol cars are always cheap these days. Diesel estates tend to hold value as they are much more desirable at the moment.
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Don't tempt me with 3 series goodness, the new car has to be properly sensible for commuting or the misses will string me up :grin: . I keep getting distracted already with what 'interesting' classic cars I can get locally for the money! I managed to persuade myself the Golf was a practical daily car (I guess it was over the '72 Beetle I had before :laugh:). With the estate boot it'll also double for parts lugging and sticking the bikes in.
Anyhow cheers for the help from all, very much appreciated. I think I'm going to continue looking rather than go for the red A4 mentioned previously but an A4/Passat is still pretty high on the list to waft about in.
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Give Chuff a nudge, he's pretty awesome at finding bargain motors when he's not preoccupied with looking for something for himself. :grin:
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The diesel thing is a bit of a myth unless you are doing huge miles, you pay over the odds for the car, the diesel and in a lot of cases the mpg isn't anywhere near as good as it's made out to be and they need to be serviced on a more regular basis. On top of that it stinks and gets everywhere when you fill up. Nothing worse than popping in for a swift one or going to a meeting with the Armani smelling of diesel fumes and do you really want to mess about these horrible plastic gloves.
:laugh: :laugh:
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:grin:
Diesel will be worth it for me to be fair, going to be commuting a fair old distance (up to 80 odd miles a day) and always seem to be travelling to pick up parts of some description. I can live with an oil change and filter every 10k. I basically want a reliable shed on wheels :grin:
Got the Mk2 for the weekends and fun factor.
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The diesel thing is a bit of a myth unless you are doing huge miles, you pay over the odds for the car, the diesel and in a lot of cases the mpg isn't anywhere near as good as it's made out to be and they need to be serviced on a more regular basis. On top of that it stinks and gets everywhere when you fill up. Nothing worse than popping in for a swift one or going to a meeting with the Armani smelling of diesel fumes and do you really want to mess about these horrible plastic gloves.
:laugh: :laugh:
Mpg is still better than a sh!tty petrol :tongue:
Where do people get the notion that diesels require servicing more often?? :huh: service intervals are the same as their petrol equivalents......
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The diesel thing is a bit of a myth unless you are doing huge miles, you pay over the odds for the car, the diesel and in a lot of cases the mpg isn't anywhere near as good as it's made out to be and they need to be serviced on a more regular basis. On top of that it stinks and gets everywhere when you fill up. Nothing worse than popping in for a swift one or going to a meeting with the Armani smelling of diesel fumes and do you really want to mess about these horrible plastic gloves.
:laugh: :laugh:
Where do people get the notion that diesels require servicing more often?? :huh: service intervals are the same as their petrol equivalents......
A quick google and to be fair this is the first one I came up with because I'm to busy watching the telly, is unfortunately for Pugs but the idea is the same for most diesels. As the miles pile on a diesel requires more frequent servicing. So if as the op intends to do you buy something with a lot of miles on it and service it by the book it will cost you more.
The mpg is also debatable :smiley:
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The diesel thing is a bit of a myth unless you are doing huge miles, you pay over the odds for the car, the diesel and in a lot of cases the mpg isn't anywhere near as good as it's made out to be and they need to be serviced on a more regular basis. On top of that it stinks and gets everywhere when you fill up. Nothing worse than popping in for a swift one or going to a meeting with the Armani smelling of diesel fumes and do you really want to mess about these horrible plastic gloves.
:laugh: :laugh:
Where do people get the notion that diesels require servicing more often?? :huh: service intervals are the same as their petrol equivalents......
A quick google and to be fair this is the first one I came up with because I'm to busy watching the telly, is unfortunately for Pugs but the idea is the same for most diesels. As the miles pile on a diesel requires more frequent servicing. So if as the op intends to do you buy something with a lot of miles on it and service it by the book it will cost you more.
The mpg is also debatable :smiley:
I did over over 60k in my MK4 and serviced it no more frequently than it required. Steve_PD on here has done over 120k on his MK4 and drops his oil every 10k. As he uses his car then things break, but stuff breaks on any car as it ages, whether it be petrol or diesel
Stop / start traffic i can get over 450 miles without breaking a sweat. Try that in a petrol car around town :tongue:
Actually try getting that in a petrol car full stop :grin:
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where do people get the inpression from that end of life sheds get serviced :evil:
round here all the sub £1000 passats and alike are basicly f**ked owners keep seem to keep hold of the good ones till there not so good.
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The diesel thing is a bit of a myth unless you are doing huge miles, you pay over the odds for the car, the diesel and in a lot of cases the mpg isn't anywhere near as good as it's made out to be and they need to be serviced on a more regular basis. On top of that it stinks and gets everywhere when you fill up. Nothing worse than popping in for a swift one or going to a meeting with the Armani smelling of diesel fumes and do you really want to mess about these horrible plastic gloves.
:laugh: :laugh:
Where do people get the notion that diesels require servicing more often?? :huh: service intervals are the same as their petrol equivalents......
A quick google and to be fair this is the first one I came up with because I'm to busy watching the telly, is unfortunately for Pugs but the idea is the same for most diesels. As the miles pile on a diesel requires more frequent servicing. So if as the op intends to do you buy something with a lot of miles on it and service it by the book it will cost you more.
The mpg is also debatable :smiley:
I did over over 60k in my MK4 and serviced it no more frequently than it required. Steve_PD on here has done over 120k on his MK4 and drops his oil every 10k. As he uses his car then things break, but stuff breaks on any car as it ages, whether it be petrol or diesel
Stop / start traffic i can get over 450 miles without breaking a sweat. Try that in a petrol car around town :tongue:
Actually try getting that in a petrol car full stop :grin:
I have, with a MK4 TDI, if you took it easy sure it would run on fresh air but mostly you had to thrash the thing within an inch of it's life to keep up in which case not much in it :wink: And note that the op is after a mid 90's bigger eastate shed which will not have the grunt or economy of the latest generation diesels. I also had the use of an Audi A6 with a diesel not sure which I just drove it, it was from work which if memory serves me right was on an X plate, woefully underpowered and not that good on fuel.
So maybe we'll agree to disagree :laugh: :laugh:
And then there was the diesel VW transporter heap of junk that I used at work many moons ago. It did next to no miles to the gallon especially after I got confused at the pumps in a filling station outside Rotterdam and filled it with petrol !!! It went next to no distance at all before it blew up so then again maybe you are right about petrol
:grin:
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It is known that paying big bucks for a diesel to replace a petrol car will take a while to recoup the savings, but keep the right diesel motor long enough and there is no denying there are savings to be had. Yes they are not the same to drive as a petrol but it really does depend on your needs. Not sure how old the previously mentioned transporter was but I know most, especially early ones tend to be woefully underpowered and lets not forget how heavy they are. I have a petrol T25, it's consumption is one of the worst I have experienced, almost as bad as a 5L Mustang we used to have. :shocked: :grin:
A lot of people don't actually know how to drive a diesel and often it's these sort of people that complain about poor MPG. A close friend spent years driving his like a petrol, redlining it to get power that didn't exist at the top. Poor MPG and often suffered engine problems due to the abuse.
The Audi posted by the OP hasn't got the greatest diesel in the world and for an estate will be quite underpowered, but I assure you I could get much better MPG from it than a petrol equivalent if driven correctly.
If I drive my 2009 Mazda 6 (2.2 MZR Diesel) like I stole it, I get MPG in the 30's, something the same powered petrol version only manages when driven carefully. On long runs I get mid 50's, late 40's with four people and camping gear on a trip all the way to the Swiss alps and back. This is impossible in the petrol, I tried.
All engines, petrol or diesel can return poor MPG, especially if the engine doesn't suit the car (too small for the weight it has to carry) or people expecting acceleration in the same manner as a similar sized petrol and therefore thrash it like a petrol.
As far as servicing goes, I think some manufacturers over service IMO and I'm sure it's just a money spinner. Buy an older diesel and you can often get away with murder and do very little to it.
Diesels are usually much stronger as they need cope with high compression, and more often than not munch more miles before packing in as a result.
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You had a sh!t MK4 then :kiss:
Read DH's 'sh!t shaped utility' thread about his diesel mk3. He is not being kind to it at all and still returning 47mpg. Not bad for a smokey old derv :wink: